Update on PO mess!

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by klmno, Feb 7, 2012.

  1. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    OK- legal research has led me to find out these things:

    Definitions- 1) a step-down program doesn't add to time required to be incarcerated,
    2) a reunification and/or transitional placement is a short term (max 60 days if it's going well) placement and in this state, it's also consideed a step down and not to add to time incarcerated
    3) a post-dispositional program is either in a detention center run by juvie or contracted out to a local GH, last 8 mos on average, and can be gotten 1 of three ways- a) a judge orders it in lieu of commitment to Department of Juvenile Justice or in the event of emergency protective order for child or due to child's behavior, b) dss has custody of the kid and can't keep them in a LRE, c) a kid is on probation and still not behaving so PO refers it to prevent taking kid to court for harsher punishment; important to note - a judge is not allowed to order a kid to both post-d and commitment to Department of Juvenile Justice because it has been deemed double-jeopardy. They can order post-d with suspended sentence to Department of Juvenile Justice so if kid "fails" at post-d, then they get committed to Department of Juvenile Justice but if committed to Department of Juvenile Justice, they cannot also be ordered to do post-d for the same crime; post-d is very simialr to a Department of Juvenile Justice incarceration because it requires the kid to earn their way out, there's a min length of stay, they have the same required treatment program, such as substance abuse and anger management
    4) a "court order" is an order from a judge only and is not the same as an order from a PO

    I had asked for either 1 or 2 above and even asked if a short term foster care placement could be used to meet the same objectives. PO led me to believe this GH was 1 & 2 but of course, would be after difficult child's release for required incarcerartion. When it started looking like this was a post-d program because there were too many inconsistent stories about it, I said never mind that difficult child could come straight home then super got irate accusing me of trying to write parole plan and said they were ordering it anyway. PO, even as late as this past Friday, was documenting this as a 3-6 mo transitional GH placement and they were ordering it.

    OK, maybe they didn't know what they were doing but wouldn't they have looked into it before Friday or yesterday when difficult child's release date is tomorrow and PO and super have been adamant that they could order this? Wouldn't someone from the GH at least mentioned to PO that he can't do this?

    because as it turns out, PO forwarded the application from the GH to me yesterday at lunch time. It is titled "Post-dispositional placement application and agreement". It says if placement is made by court order, court order must be attached. If placement is made at request of juvie CSU (PO), parent must consent.

    Did PO honestly think he could sneak this by me without anyone noticing?

    Now here's where we are today- difficult child was scheduled to be released tomorrow. On Friday am I was told to pick him up from Department of Juvenile Justice on Wed for transport to local GH only and I would sign him in there. I said no. If difficult child was being transferred and not released to my custody, they are responsible for transport. Central Department of Juvenile Justice office agreed. They call PO and PO says it will have to be this coming Friday then instead of Wed and issued paper to Department of Juvenile Justice saying he would pick difficult child up on Friday to bring him to GH. That's when PO called me (late afternoion last Fri by that point) to tell me I'd "have" to sign this agreement with GH first. I told him to email iit to me so I could see what they were expecting me to agree to since this was being done under a PO order. That's the app I rec'd from him yesterday. Apparently they originally planned for me to transport difficult child on Wed, show up at GH, and they'd slide me the signature page only under the pretense that I was just signing that as a check-in. How crooked!! Yesterday mid-afternoon, I write a letter to PO saying I'm not in agreement with post-d placement at this time because it's double jeopardy. If difficult child comes home and is not behaving, I'll reconsider because that's different. And I ask him to confirm that difficult child will be released to my custody now. I called yesterday, too, and left VM to make sure he'd rec'd this and knew I was not consenting. I've rec'd no response. difficult child called last night and said his counselor spent all day yesterday changing paperwork from Feb 8 release date to Feb 10 release date due to PO's order.

    So WTH? Maybe PO is trying to get a judge to order this as I sit here typing this up. If a judge did order it, I would appeal because 1) I'm not there, 2) PO is probably over in court lying or at least mis-representing things in court. I don't know- but I can't believe how much- whatever this is- incompetence? manipulation? down-right lying?- WTH were these people thinking? Were they going to these extremes just to try to save face because PO's super backed them in a corner by saying she was ordering something she had no right to order without my consent?

    My letter to aclu will be rec'd by aclu today. It charges these things- violation of difficult child's rights by lack of due process, double jeopardy, and unlawful detainment; violation of my parental rights by refusal to return child back to my custody upono release from required incarceration; 3) breech of trust of public servant and abuse of authority due to several violations of state law and state Department of Juvenile Justice regulations. aclu doesn't take many cases and only chooses those that would effect the rights of a lot of people. I'm thinking there are a lot of kids/parents whose rights are being violated this way in this state.

    I could take the state Department of Juvenile Justice to court for all this but I can't afford the high-cost attny it would require to stand a chance against the state AG. The only thing left I can do is wait to see if they still follow thru, if GH accepts difficult child or PO tries to put difficult child in detention or whatever, then file complaint with fed DOJ and go public via media. I don't think general public pays too much attention though to a news release about a kid coming out of Department of Juvenile Justice and his rights being violated.

    So does anyone want to wager a guess on what PO is doing today and why I haven''t heard back from him yet? Is he trying to get a court order or is he trying to get his foot out of his mouth?

    And, DJ- if you read this- thank you again for letting me know in a persistent way that the previous PO and GAL had BSd me big time about threatening me with putting difficult child in custody of half-bro if I didn't jump thru their hoops. When I looked into it and found out for sure that you were right and they had flat out lied to me about that, knowing about the potential for sex abuse, etc, and how this was tearing me up emotionally but costing me everything I had, that's when I started keeping a more watchful eye on what is going on now with these people. Otherwise, I'd continued on thinking they were people to be believed and trusted. Ha!

    I think the fed gov ought to check on where their funding is going, too, because that stream isn't supposed to cover this GH and there are a lot of people in this state with jobs in Department of Juvenile Justice and financial and personal interests in these "youth services".
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2012
  2. TeDo

    TeDo Guest

    Wow. This saga just won't stop will it? It WILL be interesting to see what happens. I know things like this can happen but THIS PO is worse than a dog with a bone (or a god complex). This is obsession, not even just determination. WHY is he so adamant?

    Keep fighting!
  3. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It


    These people seem to believe that they can do anything they want. Period. They do NOT expect you to know your's or difficult child's rights OR be interested in protecting. This PO sounds so much like the sp ed teacher that changed Wiz' IEP and forged my signature. She handed me a copy of his IEP to take to psychiatric hospital and fully expected that I would NOT read it. When confronted, she actually tried to attack me for opening the envelope. Your PO is the same. I just hope they don't name him PO of the year next year and give him an honorary judge postition. The sp ed teacher was named teacher of the year the next year and then promoted to principal of the alternative school.

    I hope the ACLU takes the case and kicks some PO booty.

    Things like this make me wonder how to get a twitter or fb acct with enough followers to get worldwide attention on things like this! Very little says follow the rules like making your entire dept/agency/system look this wrong with a viral video or email or website.
  4. buddy

    buddy New Member

    I hope that your complaint was like this post. Very clear what happened and the heck they have put you guys through. I continue to try to hold my heart together for you. This must be the most frustrating thing ever. They need to lose their jobs and they can go start some lame program with the people from Q's school. uggg.
  5. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    I think my letters have been a little more concise...at least I hope so!

    Still no word from PO- I called difficult child's counselor in Department of Juvenile Justice and asked if she'd heard from him. She hadn't since yesterday morning so has still been working under the pretense that PO is picking difficult child on Fri to take him to GH. I filled her in and told her that unless PO shows up with a court order (ie, an order issued and signed by a judge), difficult child is to be released to me,. I also filled her in on GH placement requiring agreement from me and that it's a post-d program and that if PO is getting an order from court right now, I want to know why I'm not aware of hearing sso I can be there and obviously, I haven't abandoned my kid or refused to pick him up if he's to be released to my custody. That's the only way I can see a judge ordering this without the parent being in court but it would be a lie if he tries to pull that off- especially with evidence of that letter I emailed him yesterday. difficult child has no pending charges to give him a sentence for and couldn't have violated parole if he hasn't even been released on parole yet. She's going to try to call him and check on it all with her higher-ups then get back with me. She's also going to check on the legality of who has custody of difficult child upon his release from incarceration, me or PO. (I already know the answer to that one but PO obviously needs it clarified to him by people in Department of Juvenile Justice.)
  6. AnnieO

    AnnieO Shooting from the Hip

    k... Just hugs. I don't know how you go it alone...
  7. Mattsmom277

    Mattsmom277 Active Member

    This guy is a nutter!! Why on earth is he so invested? By now he should clearly see the writing on the wall. That is, that you are on the ball and learning quickly what rights he and the courts etc have and what rights you and your son have. He really needs a reality check. I'll be hoping that those letters you sent out pay off and one of the recipients hands him a reality check.

    Ill be thinking of you and difficult child. This has sure been one mess after another. I do hope difficult child has a clue about how invested you are on his behalf and comes home with the right attitude towards making healthy decisions and being a healthy member of the household. I'm all about realizing out kiddos can change, yet please forgive me for also having concerns for you too if he isn't ready or willing to walk the walk so to speak. I want to hear that your difficult child is thriving post release. I also want to know you are safe and thriving. I'm keeping you both in my thoughts for sure and sending positive vibes that this mess gets sorted and that his release is the beginning of a new path for difficult child and for the relationship between the two of you. You sure have worked your hiney off!!
  8. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    thank you, all! Still no word from PO.

    I made it clear in my letter yesterday that I'm not in agreement "at this time" and if difficult child comes home and is showing signs of not being rehabilitated or exhibits behavior escalating to delinquency, I would reconsider agreeing to placement in order to keep everyone safe and try to prevent another incarceration for him.

    difficult child needs to believe in our justice system though and to me, that means he respects the authority but understands it doesn't mean they are gods with no boundaries and he has to be a doormat- he has a right to be given a chance if he's completed his sentence when the law says he can't be sentenced twice for the same crime. I want him to see there is justice and sometimes the law is on his side. If he messes up again, that's on his shoulders.

    I just rec'd a letter from him that was written late Sun night. I think I'll pin it up at work. It says:

    "Dear Mom,
    Well, the Giants won and I'm really excited. I'm giving all my stuff away tomorrow. But I really just can't wait to get out of here. I want to show people that I can do good under pressure and stress, just like Eli Manning did today. Scored in 3 minutes. And I'm going to win just like he did. But instead of a ring, I get a FUTURE!"

    I'm praying he can hold that thought for several years!
  9. buddy

    buddy New Member

    that is for sure refrigerator worthy (or work bulletin or where ever you put special things)....
  10. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    Sweet! :) DDD
  11. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    Maybe you're right, Buddy- it would be better if I put this up where difficult child can always see it, too. It's that feeling of hope and ambition and belief in a dream and himself that he's always lacked and for him to feel it, even for a moment, is such a good sign to me.
  12. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    I love the football note! :)

    This is definitely the crux of the matter. I'm sending strength, clarity and hugs.

    It says if placement is made by court order, court order must be attached. If placement is made at request of juvie CSU (PO), parent must consent.
  13. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    OK- I just called the central Department of Juvenile Justice office and they are supposed to relay the message to the regional supervisor but I don't think they had time for that when I just rec'd an email from PO. Here's what it says:

    At what point do these people quit defaulting to a "unified front" position and check to see if they have legal authority to carry out what they are ordering and claiming?

    The person at the central office asked me what it was I really wanted- I said well since my request for a gradual transition and reunification can't be had, I think holding these people in csu accountable might be a good thing but the most important thing today is letting people at the Department of Juvenile Justice facility and me know for certain that there aren't going to be any legal repurcussions if they release difficult child to me on his release date and I go pick him up and bring him home, with parole supervision of course. I mean really, there is no court order stating otherwise and my son has never been in the custody of dss so what other issue is there?

    Why am I the only person who thinks this is a no brainer?

    I think I need to respond to him and tell him that unless there is a court order, signed by a judge, for difficult child to go to GH I will expect that there will be no legal repurcussions when I go to pick difficult child up and also, that the staff in the Department of Juvenile Justice facility will be informed ahead of time that I have full legal authority to pick my son up. And any further delays in my son's release from incarceration are unlawful detention.
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2012
  14. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    "Given that difficult child is scheduled to be released on three days' time, and I am the parent who currently has custody, why can you not give me any information? To whom do I address my concerns about lack of notification/planning? If difficult child is to come home, I need to be kept informed for sure so I can make appropriate arrangements. If difficult child is not to come home then again, I need time to process all the relevant paperwork and read it thoroughly, as is my responsibility and right and also difficult child's right."

    This guy has dropped the ball previously, bent the rules over and over to try to shortcut, second-guessed - and is now in CYA mode. Think - Radar in M*A*S*H, slipping requisitions through that Henry wouldn't approve...

  15. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    Here's what I'm thinking as a email response to PO- but I don't know how much effect it has when central office is looking over his shoulder now- really the communication should be inwriting between me and those in central office. Anyway...

    What do you think?
  16. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    I can't vote. You are the one who has the information, documentation and specific legal statutes. All I can suggest is that you go with your facts in anyway that will most benefit your difficult child. Hugs. DDD
  17. CrazyinVA

    CrazyinVA Well-Known Member Staff Member

    If you're certain you don't want him to go to the group home, I think I would just say, "ok, I'll be there to pick him up on Friday. Please let me know what time I should be there." No need to repeat anything about the court order, if you've already said it. But that's me, I don't waste my breath on threats or repeating info I've already provided. I just do.
  18. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    I'm kind of thinking that, too, CiVa- but if I call and give that message to staff in the facility while PO has sent them an email saying he's picking up difficult child to take hime to GH, then what happens when I get there? They need to have some authority telling them I am legally allowed to pick difficult child, I think. Never mind that they don't have anything stating otherwise. Mybe I'll just leave VM messages tomorrow that I'll be there Fri am to pick difficult child up and unless someone else shows up with a court order stating otherwise, I expect that there will be no problem with them releasing difficult child to me.

    I can say I'm working toward that way of thinking, Cin Va, though. It's not that I think difficult child coming straight home is the best answer- but these nit-wits didn't/wouldn't order a short term placement or a reunification plan or anything other than this additional sanction. I really don'[t think this is going to help difficult child. It's not fair to him and is so similar to what he just spent 18 mos going thru, under the pretense that he'd come home when he finished it, that it would make a saint give up if it was ordered after what he's worked thru. I still would prefer a short term reunification plan or a place difficult child could go while we are working thru problems if it wasn't a program that was a disciplinary placement (not that he doesn't have to have rules and discipline anywhere), but this is the sort of program that a judge orders as a punishment- it's just not fair to difficult child right now. If he comes home and is going wild, it's different. But he deserves that chance. I honestly think it's unlawful otherwise.
  19. buddy

    buddy New Member

    Do the people at Department of Juvenile Justice have any clue that a PO could make such a huge mistake... would they mistakenly release him to this guy just because he looks official?

    I think that would make a really huge law suit but what of difficult child if that happens.

    Before when they said he could come home..way back when...did they say to do that he needed monitoring with an ankle bracelet (I thought you said that) so if they do that will that delay his release?

    Gosh I hope this guy does not screw this up any more than is already done. Your son must be going through hell trying to figure out what is going on.
  20. ksm

    ksm Well-Known Member

    what a wonderful letter!! I do hope everything works out for both of you! KSM