Valentines Day

[newstart]

Valentines Day tomorrow can be beautiful day for many and a sad day for many. We spent the day with our daughter. She cooked a wonderful roast, then made a sweet potato dish for desert, it was very good. She is spending a lot of time with a new girl friend and has morphed into that girls personality. I see bits and pieces of my daughter but she takes on the personality of who ever she is around. I am glad that her new friend is a good person. I am grateful for that because when she morphed into her boyfriend she was unbearable. We caught her in several lies today. Really weird lies.
My daughter wrote a note to me and asked me to take her 'as is'. I remember years back when my bipolar brother in law was horrible to us and we decided not to talk with him anymore and we got a note from him that said to accept him for who he is, we decided we could not and have not talked to him for 20+ years. So my daughter continues with the obnoxious lies and then does nice things. It keeps us off guard. I know to not believe anything she says but I think it is very stupid that we sit through her lies and not stop them immediately, knowing that when I call her on her lies she just gets very angry and the fighting starts. Part of me wants to call the lies out, part of me does not want the fighting anymore. I come home confused, irritated, sad, depressed and also grateful that we got to spend time together and have a meal. Being around her has caused me to slip into depression. Exogenous depression. I can get out of it since I know what it is and what causes it. I had a severe case of it being around my bipolar sister in law and mother in law. That nasty behavior effects me deep into my soul. I wish I was not like that. It does not effect my husband the same way, he can compartmentalize it, he grew up around it so it does not shock him like it does me.
When we got back from our daughter's house he just shook his head and said 'I just don't understand it'. And can go on with his day and life. Even though I don't understand the stupid lies it actually harms my soul to listen to them. When around my daughter I have to be like a detective, trying to put all the puzzle pieces together to make some sort of sense. The only reason I continue with this is because she can be nice. But it sure keeps me twisted off.

 

[Nomad]

I’m so sorry. I am more like you. So, I suppose I can’t be much help. My husband is a bit more like your husband. I was always trying to establish limits and boundaries. He did too….but not as much. He often felt it was futile as efforts seem to result in little to no improvement. One day recently…she went over the top in our case and it became obvious we could no longer tolerate her horrible behavior toward us. I guess so much depends on how bad the behavior is, if they are willing to at least usually accept some boundaries, your willingness to let some things go…a conglomerate of things. I hate lying but lying over small things is more very annoying and frustrating usually than dangerous, etc. Kind of disrespectful too. If it crosses the line into abusive or dangerous…that might be a very different story. Of note…your wording “it harms my soul” says a lot. It might be a very good idea to limit your interaction with her. And seek help if you haven’t already. It sounds like it is VERY hurtful and there could come a time that you might have to set up tremendous boundaries to protect yourself. And if it worsens…(I hope not)…disengage. Good luck.

 

[newstart]

Thank you Nomad. I've been keeping up with your posts. You have been through it. So many weird emotions spinning around and I know we all just want our children to walk right and do good things.
I sometimes wonder if my daughters brain shuts off and her mouth just makes up stuff? I know she knows when she is lying because she back tracks and tries to make the lie a reality. She works hard trying to convince us that it is not a lie. The amount of energy she puts into this is unreal, even when we have all the facts and evidence that it is a lie.
I am sad that you got burned with the squatters. What you are going through is truly a nightmare. I can't believe that the laws are how they are, it is a deep down shame.
It is also a shame that our children have no idea how hard they are on our health.
I feel deep down old and sad being around anyone disrespectful and then when it is your own daughter it is really ugly. I am so sorry for your hardship. Prayers and a huge hug to you.

 

[Copabanana]

I don’t lie but lately I’ve been seeing a psychologist, for about 6 months. Sometimes after I have spoken to him, I realize I’ve said something not true about my story. Not embellishments or boasts, but untruths. It’s making me nuts. Wondering why these untruths come out of my mouth. Like I said I was brilliant at diagnosing and assessing risk. The truth is I was trusted and did well enough but what I was really good at was relationships and trust-building. The truth was this, not the other, was my gift.

Anybody who reads here knows I take the time to be as precise as I can, with words. And here in my real life I am blah blah blah-just blather. Just lately in this one relationship. I’m not trying to impress him. Honestly I don’t know wtf I’m doing.

I’ve been reading your posts since you’ve come here. You know your child is mentally ill. You know she loves you so much. You know she tries to make a better relationship with you. You know she in her way is trying to make a better life. You know more than anybody what the loss of a child means. I think all of these are reasons to try to change.

I’m trying to change. We can be buddies.

 

[newstart]

Copa, Your sincere honest post speaks volumes of your good heart. I know we all say white lies from time to time. I truly try to tell the truth everyday, each time because I am so deep down sick of my daughters lying. Sometimes if I am around someone that I am not comfortable with weird thing come out of my mouth.
I do know my daughter loves me.
Just yesterday my daughter was telling me about an arrest that she said happened a couple of houses down from where she lives. She told me in great detail what happened. Come to find out it happened several blocks away, I read about it on the neighborhood website. My daughter knew I would probably read about it and called me to say they got the street name all wrong. That is typical of the constant, never ending, crazy types of lies she makes up.
I do wonder if her brain just shuts off and her mouth has it's own system and just starts talking on it's own.
My daughter is intelligent, understands law inside out, understands politics inside out, does day trading and is good with that and so far paying her bills. Her art business in picking up and I am proud of her talent. I know I am not the only one she lies to, she lies to everyone. I am always worried that she is going to lie to the wrong person and get into major trouble. I have seen it happen and it is ugly. I also realize that I can't do anything about it but it still weighs heavy on me because when she hurts, I hurt.
It is helpful for me to write what is going on. Sometimes I am confused and I desperately want to do the right most healthy helpful thing. Copa, thank you for your input through all these years you have so much value and love in your broken heart.
I work at changing.
My daughters lies feel like abuse to me. I know she knows she is doing it most of the time and I believe during mania she gets dupers delight thinking she pulled another one on me. Does it help her if I just ignore the lies? Calling her on it just makes her anxiety go off the charts. I just listen to her tone. All the thousands of dollars I spend on therapy for her did not do anything. When and how does a person that is a pathological liar ever stop? I read with medication, but she will not medicate. CBT therapy helped a little while and then she is back to lying. Bottom line, if she and only she decides to do something about it then maybe her life will get better.
Thank you for your support, and love and grateful to have you as my buddy.

 

[Copabanana]

You know Newstart I have a hobby. Actually I have two hobbies that are deeply important to me. One of them I will tell you about. It is Portuguese Fado music. Fado means fate in Portuguese. Let me tell you about Fado music. I am listening as I write. Actually I am nearly always listening. I have to force myself to turn it off in order to go to sleep.

I will tell you a couple of reasons this is coming to mind right now. Fado is the soundtrack of my life. I mean, it doesn't talk about the history per se of my life--but of life--everybody's life. It gets right down to it. In the most expressive, eloquent, heartfelt, sad, mournful, loving way. It's as if all of the people who have ever lived, their voices as they hoped and cried, and yearned, and lost--were put into a cauldron and it would end up as Fado music. OMG Fado music drowns out my sorrow and replaces it with joy. It just digs right down into my core and turns me inside out. When I listen, it's impossible to be sad. Impossible to feel discontent. Impossible to even worry about my son. I am happy when I listen. Because I am nearly always listening I am nearly always happy. It's such a cheap thrill. Well, Spotify costs something.

So right now I am relating this to you: If you think about it, except for a few things, all life is is blah, blah, blah. One of those red letter things is LOVE. I know you have great agony. I will not diminish it, because I KNOW agony. But the thing is--all of this lying of your daughter is blah, blah, blah.

Is there a way that you can tune it out and begin hearing your LOVE SONG, your song of love. In that way, your daughter's blah, blah, blah would be drowned out, and all you would know and feel is love. Because that is what I believe about you. I believe you are the most loving of women.

And I am wondering right now, something I have never thought about before. I am wondering if you might hold onto this irritation about her lying, because on some level it protects you from feeling your great love for her, and worry about her, and fear you might lose her, too. You have suffered what no mother should. But fearing to feel your great love is to big a price to pay.

 

[Copabanana]

The bottom line newstart is to get out of your daughter and into you. You are love.

 

[newstart]

Copa, Interesting about the Portuguese Fado music, I googled and listened. Lots going on in that sound. Thank you for mentioning it.
I have been busy with remodeling our home. It has taken most of my time. We have added extra space to do yoga.
I have other interests going on in my life. Animals and helping other bereaved parents deal with the death of their child. I am involved with my art group, even travel with them. My husband and I are volunteers for a museum, been there over 25 years, we are also involved with the community. I have other 'me' things that I do. I have a group of women that I have known for over 20 years, we work out, laugh, act crazy and we are very kind to each other. I guess what I am getting at is that no matter how busy I am or how much I have going on my daughter's safety and mental health is always on there on top of everything. I am a different person since my son died and I know and understand how fast life goes by and the most important thing in life is to love one another and my deep frustration comes from wanting and needing my daughters love and it comes to me in off/on mode and lies. Sometimes there is genuine love from her, other times it is manic love in fragments. I feel deep satisfaction when the love from her is genuine. I have learned to not let her hurt me as deeply because I know it is the mania talking. No matter how I try to explain this it is hard as H with her.
Thank you Copa for all your support and I pray that your relationship with you son will someday be healed and healthy.

 

[Copabanana]

I am involved with my art group, even travel with them.

I have a group of women that I have known for over 20 years, we work out, laugh, act crazy and we are very kind to each other

Gosh your life sounds full. How wonderful it would be to have a circle of close friends near me. I don't.

I guess what I am getting at is that no matter how busy I am or how much I have going on my daughter's safety and mental health is always on there on top of everything.

I know exactly what you mean. It's this way for me too. I would phrase it though that my worry about my son, who is homeless now, is always below the surface. Maybe that is why I need the music that is so piercing through bone.

 

[Wish]

Valentines Day tomorrow can be beautiful day for many and a sad day for many. We spent the day with our daughter. She cooked a wonderful roast, then made a sweet potato dish for desert, it was very good. She is spending a lot of time with a new girl friend and has morphed into that girls personality. I see bits and pieces of my daughter but she takes on the personality of who ever she is around. I am glad that her new friend is a good person. I am grateful for that because when she morphed into her boyfriend she was unbearable. We caught her in several lies today. Really weird lies.
My daughter wrote a note to me and asked me to take her 'as is'. I remember years back when my bipolar brother in law was horrible to us and we decided not to talk with him anymore and we got a note from him that said to accept him for who he is, we decided we could not and have not talked to him for 20+ years. So my daughter continues with the obnoxious lies and then does nice things. It keeps us off guard. I know to not believe anything she says but I think it is very stupid that we sit through her lies and not stop them immediately, knowing that when I call her on her lies she just gets very angry and the fighting starts. Part of me wants to call the lies out, part of me does not want the fighting anymore. I come home confused, irritated, sad, depressed and also grateful that we got to spend time together and have a meal. Being around her has caused me to slip into depression. Exogenous depression. I can get out of it since I know what it is and what causes it. I had a severe case of it being around my bipolar sister in law and mother in law. That nasty behavior effects me deep into my soul. I wish I was not like that. It does not effect my husband the same way, he can compartmentalize it, he grew up around it so it does not shock him like it does me.
When we got back from our daughter's house he just shook his head and said 'I just don't understand it'. And can go on with his day and life. Even though I don't understand the stupid lies it actually harms my soul to listen to them. When around my daughter I have to be like a detective, trying to put all the puzzle pieces together to make some sort of sense. The only reason I continue with this is because she can be nice. But it sure keeps me twisted off.

I can hear your anguish about it. What types of lies did she tell? Any examples?

 

[Crayola13]

Did you ever figure out what really happened with the Christmas gift? I think you said it was a coat you wanted.

 

[newstart]

I can hear your anguish about it. What types of lies did she tell? Any examples?

Thank you for your post and for hearing my anguish. My daughter lies about what she had to eat, who came over to visit, where she went and who she saw. The lies continue with what she bought, how much things cost, you name it she lies about it. Also to keep me confused she will tell me opposite things like if it will be sunny she says it will be rainy today. She said she ordered me a blue jacket for Christmas, made up a bunch of lies why it did not come in, I called the place and they told me they never got the order called in. She is lying to be lying.

 

[newstart]

Did you ever figure out what really happened with the Christmas gift? I think you said it was a coat you wanted.

I went ahead and ordered the blue jacket. The lady at the jacket place told me that my daughter never ordered it. I have been wearing it and love it. I have not told my daughter that I got it, and have not wore in in front of her either. I think I may take a picture of me in it and post it on FB. She did that over Christmas. Nothing would have been better than false hope.

 

[Wish]

Thank you for your post and for hearing my anguish. My daughter lies about what she had to eat, who came over to visit, where she went and who she saw. The lies continue with what she bought, how much things cost, you name it she lies about it. Also to keep me confused she will tell me opposite things like if it will be sunny she says it will be rainy today. She said she ordered me a blue jacket for Christmas, made up a bunch of lies why it did not come in, I called the place and they told me they never got the order called in. She is lying to be lying.

Awe, it must be awful to deal with someone so close to you who lies like that. I have dealt with pathological liars. It really is harmful to the soul. Its irritating beyond belief. Maybe talk to her about it?

 

[BusynMember1]

Compulsive lying can indicate a personality disorder. We spent time with both a psychiatrist and then a therapist when I was at my worst and this trait puzzled me too so I asked about it and it was discussed. I did not hear what I wanted to hear but it gave me insight into what I could not understand. We decided, and I agree, that my daughter is likely borderline. Chronic lying for no reason is a mental health red flag. It indicates something is very wrong and unless they care enough to really want to fix it, and to fix whatever else is wrong, it doesn't usually change. My daughter has to also have bipolar...she is rageful at times. So we can't fix them. They have to do it. It's on them. Calling them out on lies doesn't stop them. Kay would lie about lying....She would also burst into "Why do you try to make me look bad?" rants. We quit bringing up her lies when she said them. Just caused fights.

Kay has no desire to fix herself or to admit anything is wrong with her. It's me, it's being adopted, the world is against her so why should SHE get help? I should!

Trust me, I have and still do. Have you ever seen good therapist?

Prayers and love. I am so sorry. Know exactly your frustration

 

[Nomad]

That is some intense lying. I agree, sounds like Borderline traits. (((Hugs))) Crazy over the top frustrating.

Lying bugs the heck out of me..doubly so if it’s for no reason.

I have a frenemy that does this at times. I think her reason might be jealousy. I don't know. I’m glad it’s not worse. But even a mild-moderate case is annoying as heck.She also plays games. I’m too old for this. And have too much crxp going on. Recently I’ve decided to keep her at a distance. Big time distance.

Speaking of a mild-moderate case of this lying business..our daughter is like this. But not for “no reason.” It usually means she is trying to pull something off. Sigh. She is clearly bipolar and I strongly suspect has other issues too.

The recent horrendous experience with her has changed me. It’s still not “cooked yet,” but I’m getting there and I think it will be for the better.

Recently my long term frenemy pulled one of her stupid games with me and then sent a stupid text about it. I simply didn’t answer it. Often I felt sorry for her and played along. Omg. Very rarely did I question her or call her on lies or games. That absolutely won’t be the case anymore and I suspect she knows it. I just won’t participate. I’m done with BS. Talk to the hand.

I called daughter out on her lies and I think it helped a tiny bit. But she is unwell and it doesn’t have the impact one would think it should or could. I’m glad it wasn’t worse. She hesitates…especially with me. But…is certainly capable. I don’t think she does much crazy lying.

We have a relative that tends to engage in secrecy or lying when she is embarrassed for herself or close family members. Still dont care for it. I wish she could find the “sweet spot” and say something somewhat neutral but provide a general loose idea of what’s going on without any details. I don't know.

As you might be able to tell…this is a sore spot fir me.

Related side note: A friend has an adopted daughter that lied all the time and engaged in the “crazy lying.” Super frustrating. She was eventually diagnosis’d with Borderline Personality Disorder. Daughter is an adult now. They speak, but on a very limited basis. It’s sad.

Soooo happy you bought that coat!!!!

Consider the FA support group if you have one locally. They also do on-line. (((Hugs)))

 

[Nomad]

Thank you fir the prayers and hugs, Newstart. To you as well.

 

[Crayola13]

I went ahead and ordered the blue jacket. The lady at the jacket place told me that my daughter never ordered it. I have been wearing it and love it. I have not told my daughter that I got it, and have not wore in in front of her either. I think I may take a picture of me in it and post it on FB. She did that over Christmas. Nothing would have been better than false hope.

 

[newstart]

Awe, it must be awful to deal with someone so close to you who lies like that. I have dealt with pathological liars. It really is harmful to the soul. Its irritating beyond belief. Maybe talk to her about it?

Hi Wish, I have talked to her about it, screamed at her about it, been gentle about it, took her to years of therapy over it, bought her books on it, her friends have confronted her about it several times, my husband has talked to her about it until he does not want to talk to her about it anymore. She has to find it within herself to stop. I am not even sure she knows she is doing it. My husband knew a professional person at his work that lied like that and someone ended up shooting him to death. I am so afraid she will lie to the wrong person and end up hurt. She lied to one of her ex boyfriends to the point he wanted to harm her. I had to get involved so that would not end up lethal. It is horrible.

 

[newstart]

Compulsive lying can indicate a personality disorder. We spent time with both a psychiatrist and then a therapist when I was at my worst and this trait puzzled me too so I asked about it and it was discussed. I did not hear what I wanted to hear but it gave me insight into what I could not understand. We decided, and I agree, that my daughter is likely borderline. Chronic lying for no reason is a mental health red flag. It indicates something is very wrong and unless they care enough to really want to fix it, and to fix whatever else is wrong, it doesn't usually change. My daughter has to also have bipolar...she is rageful at times. So we can't fix them. They have to do it. It's on them. Calling them out on lies doesn't stop them. Kay would lie about lying....She would also burst into "Why do you try to make me look bad?" rants. We quit bringing up her lies when she said them. Just caused fights.

Kay has no desire to fix herself or to admit anything is wrong with her. It's me, it's being adopted, the world is against her so why should SHE get help? I should!

Trust me, I have and still do. Have you ever seen good therapist?

Prayers and love. I am so sorry. Know exactly your frustration

BusyNMember, Thank you for your insight. I understand fully that only she can fix it. The aftermath of her not fixing it is so hard on everyone around her. I have been in therapy for years with my daughter and alone. I have read and reread every book I can on borderline and bipolar. I have gone to support groups alone and with my daughter. It seems she wants help sometimes but does not do anything about it. I do notice she is following a healthy diet now with vitamins. The boyfriend keeps her off balance and I think he is still moved out. She seems a bit more together but when he visits or they do something together it throws her way off. She refuses medication. She does work out so that is good. Even though I know at her age, almost 40 she will have to take care of things only she can fix. God knows I have tried very hard.