What?!?!? Stupid State / County People...

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by DaisyFace, Feb 4, 2012.

  1. DaisyFace

    DaisyFace Love me...Love me not

    OK - so we had a disastrous family counseling session....

    THEN I had a meeting scheduled with the state people. They called me to confirm the meeting time - I told them that as per therapist, we needed to get the school "on board" to hold difficult child to a higher standard.

    AFTER THAT - we were supposed to have another family session with the therapist.

    BUt INSTEAD - I received a letter today indicating that the upcoming meeting with the state is going to be a JOINT session with both state and county people including therapist and psychiatrist - but not the school....and not husband.

    I am feeling railroaded.

    Why wouldn't this have been mentioned the other day when they called to confirm?


    I'm very angry and suspicious. Feels like more game-playing.
  2. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Did they specifically say not the school and not husband? I'd bring husband for sure, and as for the school, if you can get the counselor or someone to volunteer and just show up, what's the state going to do, arrest you?
  3. DaisyFace

    DaisyFace Love me...Love me not

    No - but a separate "invitation to meeting" letter is usually sent to each party with a cc: noted at the bottom so that all parties know who will be in attendance. husband is NOT on the list. School is NOT on the list.

    And it's awfully short notice for husband to make it...
  4. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    Time for legal involvement... serious.
    You MUST not go alone... and you NEED somebody with "teeth".
  5. DaisyFace

    DaisyFace Love me...Love me not

    Last few lawyers I tried to contact wouldn't touch this with a 10 ft pole...
  6. HaoZi

    HaoZi Guest

    Danger Will Robsinson Danger!
  7. KTMom91

    KTMom91 Well-Known Member

    Something's up and it's definitely not good.
  8. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    Invite somebody from the press?
    Take a political representative from some level?

    You need SOMEBODY there. Somebody who can say, after the meeting, that x, y, and z is what really happened - and not whatever they want to paint it as.
  9. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    DF- what I am finding is that the very issues lawyers wouldn't touch are the things the state level are jumping around CYAing about. What that tells me is that they know there's something wrong. Mind you though- this is a state that uses juvie courts to get newly licensed attnys experience by allowing them (and only them) to be GALs. You need to do what you think is best for you and your difficult child -- I'll just say that I have decided to take things to a higher level. I might not win and it might not do any good for difficult child or myself, but we have nothing to lose at this point. If you fish around the internet, you might be surprised to find that higher ups are already aware of the problem- if so, they need some input from parents to keep their causes in the forefront. Otherwise, I'm afraid you mmight be sitting here in complaining about the same situation a year from now.
  10. buddy

    buddy New Member

    Oh gosh girl, you have been through the ringer and now they want to twist you more..... I have no trust left for anyone when something smells fishy... yeah, I would get some kind of witness... are you allowed to tape meetings? If you notify them??? (tell them husband needs to know everything and so I will be taping the proceedings.
  11. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    Do NOT go to that meeting alone. DON"T YOU DARE!!!!!!!

    You are being set up. This is designed to get you to admit that you did something to cause this and so they won't be on the hook if she ends up getting hurt or hurting someone and you claim they didn't hurt you. You also MUST take a voice recorder that is NOT obvious to them. If you have to buy a small one, it would be worth it. If ONE party is aware of the recording, then it is legal and YOU can be that party. You NEED husband and someone who is NOT a family member to go with you.

    They want to sandbag you, get you to say something they can use to "prove" that you did something to cause this. YOU DID NOT. They KNOW they have done NOTHNG but make her worse - what other way can BT's idiotic advice and taking her to find a bank acct that didn't need your or husband's approval to open it, and convincing her that regardless of her grades she could go to college and support herself off of the huge pots of cash someone was going to give her as grants and scholarship be taken to understand.

    Don't go alone.

    Record the meeting in notes and with a voice recorder that they are unaware of.

    ANYTHING they say you have NO response to until you have a moment or two to think before you speak. Stand in your bathroom and practice holding up a finger and asking for a moment to think before the meeting moves on. Hold up your hand/index finger and say "Excuse me, I need a moment to process this before we move on. Just a moment please." and keep that hand up until you are ready and then say, "Ok, what you are saying is Blah blah stupid stupid stupid. That did not happen. This idiocy did and we notified you each time with phone calls/emails/whatever. We want help for our daughter, have taken parenting courses from you several times, and now time is running out to deal with these problems. How will you address them?" Or whatever you need to say. Practice asking for that minute at home. Do it with husband, with friends, anytime you can so you are comfortable before the meeting.

    Also practice, "I think I need to speak with a legal advisor before I can comment on that" and any other phrases you think would be helpful.

    Take copious notes. If you can't find an atty or teacher or other person in the field of helping kids, take a friend. Have them take notes on everything.

    In stressful meetings our understanding of what is going on/being said goes down. has to do with what they call the EQ or emotional quotient - basically you get upset and miss things. THAT is what these people are banking on. So do whatever you need to deal with your anxiety, even if that is a dr appointment before the meeting for a xanax rx or other medication - but DON"T take it the day of the meeting unless you know what it will do.

    Inviting one parent and not the other is a really bad thing. It should be to BOTH parents unless one has custody and the other isn't involved. It is game playing. One thing that I did wehn the middle school tried to do similar koi during IEP meetings was to take my copies of books on the various problems Wiz had with me. EACH book had LOTS of postit notes sticking out. Different colors. One color was stuff I actually wanted to refer to if needed, the other were placed at random to intimidate. I had Explosive Child, Bipolar Child, a couple of Tony Attwood's books on Aspergers (scared their Aperger's "expert" who had taken a 8 hr seminar on autism as the sum total of her knowledge of the subject and later confessed that she tried to read one of Attwood's books but it "used too many big words and confused me". Her words- the me is referring to the teacher. I had wrightslaw and the parent report and something else.

    I even asked those in attendance (fourteen plus husband and I) how many had actually met Wiz and/or read his IEP and file. Less than half - and I asked them how they were to help create an IEP for a chld they did not know, and did not know ANYTHING about? Sometimes those things are helpful, sometimesm not. But I LOOKED prepared and ready to cite my sources. The two people I knew were trying to bully us into allowing them free reign to treat him any way they wanted got the point that I would NOT roll over, esp after I kept asking them to be quiet so that I could cite a source for something that they claimed the books said and I knew they didn't.

    Do you have a business suit? Some type of formal business attire or can you borrow something? I dont' know what your job is, but dont' go in dressed casually. Go dressed for hunting politicians. Marg would have some great resources for way to help with this.

    Do you have any friends who work in a school who could help you by going with you? Doesn't have to be one of difficult child's teachers, or current teachers. Just someone. If I still lived in OH I would go with you. After the first 2 where they tried to bully me I kinda sorta started having fun with the IEP meetings. THis will be worse. But don't back down. Keep asking what they have to offer.

    Take your Parent Report and a photo of her. When they want to talk about your short-comings, redirect them by saying, "we are here to figure out how to help difficult child best. This is not about things that cannot be changed. WHat can you offer to help us now?" Putting a photo of her on the table is a wonderful tool. Point to her when you say that. Imagine you are speaking to a whole bunch of four year olds who are trying to convince you that the cat got the cookies out of the cookie jar and then set the house on fire.


    I am so so sorry they seem to be more interested in tearing you down than in helping difficult child. If nothing else, tell them that you are willing to put her back into kdg and make her do the work to that higher standard and let's get the school in here and get it set up. She can start tomorrow, and we will let her redo it all to the standard it should have been, and then she can graduate after she redoes ALL those years. After all, there is NOTHING you won't do to help her! (And yes, I DO know how stupid that is, and they will to, but you are AGREEING with them and working to do it the way they want, aren't you??) I am willing to bet they won't know what to do.

    I wish they had difficult child's interests in mind. Karma is a bigger meanie than I am and she WILL get them. She just waits until they are not expecting it.
  12. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    Ohio's wiretapping law is a "one-party consent" law. Ohio law makes it a crime to intercept or record any "wire, oral, or electronic communication" unless one party to the conversation consents. Ohio Rev. Code § 2933.52. Thus, if you operate in Ohio, you may record a conversation or phone call if you are a party to the conversation or you get permission from one party to the conversation in advance.

    If you notify them that you are recording, they will add more double-talk. Many cell phones will record, so have a full battery and just set it before you go in and put it on the table with your stuff.

    They are up to something.
  13. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    She is in SC. I would be happy to go with you. All you need is a laptop to record the meeting. It has a lovely recording function. Just check it out to make sure it is working correctly before you tape this. I missed one important call because I screwed up one setting.

    Just take one friend and have her dress up fairly business like and have her go print about 10 business card saying she is xxx Children's Mental Health Advocate, Deep Branch Consulting Lumberton NC. And give her my number. My phone answers with just my phone number. If you let me know the name of the person, I will just say she is out of the office and ask to take a message. You can actually make up business cards on your computer quite easily. I have done it. Her having a laptop would be perfectly normal to take notes...lol. Meanwhile she is recording the entire thing.
  14. Bunny

    Bunny Guest

    You can not go alone! No! No!! No!!!

    Why would they invite you and not your husband to the meeting? Are you able to invite someone to go with you? If so I would invite husband (if he's even able to come because of the short notice issue) and someone from the school. If they question why you asked other to be at the meeting I would say that you feel it's important that everyone, including the sd, be on the same page, which was after all, what they wanted originally.

    When is the meeting?
  15. buddy

    buddy New Member

    Or you can get yourself a free google mail phone number too. I use my computer phone number as an emergency back up to my cell phone... no cost at all. It has messaging. (Mostly I use it to dial my cell phone when I set it down...sigh)

    If you can get Janet or someone to go and just be that witness, they dont have to say anything, just nod knowingly, taking lots of notes and looking authoritative, it may help them be more appropriate.

    Also, you can end the meeting.... If they are pushing you to say things or answer things... end it.
  16. AnnieO

    AnnieO Shooting from the Hip

    If this is too short of notice, tell them it is not going to work for you and it needs to be rescheduled.

    As for not inviting husband... I've had things addressed to me, but not husband - and HE is the legal custodian. I am "just" the stepmother. In any other arena I'd say it was an oversight. With all the other fishy bits...
  17. rejectedmom

    rejectedmom New Member

    Bring a family member or a trusted friend if husband cannot go. Tape the meeting if they allow it but if not you will at least have a witness. If they do not allow your witness in then do not take the meeting reschedule it by faking a phone callust say you have a personal emergency andmust go. Or take the truth approach and just say you are not comfortable taking this meeting alone and want someone else there to help you interpret what they are saying.
  18. DaisyFace

    DaisyFace Love me...Love me not

    Thank you - these are good suggestions.

    Susie--I am going to take your advice and practice slowling myself down, pausing, taking a breath or two before responding...that should definitely help!

    The meeting is scheduled for Wednesday. I am going to make some phone calls tomorrow morning and see if I can find out why this meeting was changed at the last minute like this...depending upon the response it may be appropriate to demand a re-schedule (even though I had originally confirmed that I was coming when I thought it was a "small" meeting).

    I am also going to call the local NAMI group. I'm not confident that there is a lot they can do. The members at this particular group have adult children and haven't dealt with children's services in many years - which makes a big difference since so much funding has been cut. But - maybe somebody can accompany me to the meeting as an advocate.

    If the meeting cannot be postponed - husband is going to "attend" via telephone.

    Meanwhile, I'm desperately trying to think of other options...
  19. DaisyFace

    DaisyFace Love me...Love me not

    Oh...and it seems obvious that this is only a "last-minute" meeting change to me - since everybody else obviously must have coordinated their schedules beforehand...
  20. exhausted

    exhausted Active Member

    What exactly was this meeting scheduled to accomplish? I have been drowning in my own busy schedule and I may have missed some posts. Are they still playing the blame game? At what point do we look for very real solutions or at least support to move forward. How aware are they of Borderline Personality and it's difficulties? What is their training? Have you had any luck with showing them that DBT is about the best and only option to making real changes? How will they follow up with the schools to "demand" more in terms of expectations? Why does this matter so much to them? In my experience (difficult child with borderline traits and also gifted),more pressure equals melt downs, innability to stabalize, and hospitalizations. The prognosis is not good if her emotional health is not stabalized and you do not get support.

    I don't think the much of the MH community realizes what a hard road it is with Borderline kids. There is respit for those with autism and other developemental or severe psychiatric. disorders. There is nothing for us with borderline as a diagnosis for our kids (and most don't even get the diagnosis, just "traits")-this despite its severity and resistance to treatment.

    I agree that you should not go alone. I agree that you should record-Suzie star gave me the same advise. I chose to disclose that I was recording. I don't care that it may have changed things because my goal was to help my daughter. I didn't want to end up in court. I knew the meeting would go to all kinds of places without this safeguard. I also took our family therapist who ended up directing the meetings as noone ever could keep them on track. They were not accusing me and husband of any wrong doings at this point just avoiding responsibility and follow through. I used the recording and notes to hold them accoutable. I'm not sure what you should do if they are making accusations. I do know that borderline kids often blame others and will stop at nothing including very scary accusations. Our daughter once told a doctor that a bruise she had was caused by her brother-of course DCFS was on the phone. Of course nothing came of it, but it was so traumatizing for my son and us. I have read this in almost all Borderline (BPD) books-find this and bring this to educate them so they know that your difficult children perceptions are saddly warped by her mental illness.

    I don't know your situation, but is there a way to get a decent private psychiatrist? One who knows teens and this disorder? I just dont see any help from these state/county people. I see them making things worse and you suffering all the time. Is this worth it? Can you pull out and seek help from a nonprofit(United Way??) or church? I am thinking of you and hoping for the best. (((Hugs)))