Why do they do even worse things when they are in trouble?

[BusynMember]

You won't get flack from me. I agree. I'm not sure anything can help her since there is a good possibility that some of this is organic and also that she sounds like she has the whole nine yards of Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD). It sounds heartless to those who have never tried to raise a child with no conscience, but it's better in my opinion to get dangerous kids who have no remorse out of the house and into residential for everyone's safety. Not worth it to wait for a tragedy. The poster is 62...she deserves a wonderful rest-of-her-life and golden years. This kind of stress with this kind of child is heart attack worthy. In the end, likely she will end up like her brother. These are very difficult issues to address...they do not respond to the normal interventions and medications. The child literally sucks the life out of you.

So, Susie, I am saying I agree with you. been there done that.

 

[gingersgrl]

Her last evaluation was a month or so back when they said conduct disorder. Its just everyone that knows anything about kids like this always brings up Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD) and that was always been my feeling too and the Childrens hospital thought so as well. I am sometimes glad I am Grandma because I won't be around to see the path her life may take which will break my heart. She may do well eventually but getting there with Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD) will be a very rocky road at best. I've always known that. I did start therapy the first time when she was about 4 but it wasn't at all effective. They told me it was more about educating me and it was. Then we did it again when she was 5 - 7 but with the same results. From reading I knew traditional therapies don't work on Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD) kids and so have winged it since then and tried to manage and contain it. But the animal abuse changed it all. I was surprised she was diagnosed with conduct disorder and told them about the Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD) but he disregarded it. Why I don't know. Both on this forum and another I've posted on others have brought up Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD) to me so it confirms to me it was the right diagnosis all along. I didn't mention it first, someone else asked me if I'Learning Disability (LD) thought about it, so it fits and feels right.

I have repeatedly underestimated her rage and anger so I may be being foolish but I am not frightened of her today. Yesterday was the first time ever I really got it that it could happen....she could hurt me but even then it wasn't a fear of her yesterday it was an awareness of it being a real possibility in the future.

So here is my plan for the good or for the bad until something changes it. I tried to make an appointment. back at the Childrens Hospital this afternoon but need to call back on Mon. I will go for as full and comprehensive evaluation as I can get. I will take what they say with what I know and go from there. In the meantime....I talked to her this evening and told her this - if she hurts an animal or me I WILL call the police to come arrest her immediately. If she has a melt down like yesterday I will take her to emergency mental health and leave her. They made clear last time they would take her after our evaluation but it would be temporary in the hospital and she would go to a live in situation from there.

I know it may seem foolish to some of you and maybe it is but its what feels right. Its a firm plan and I am committed to it and she's aware of it. I told her she could scream and carry on and I'll wear earplugs all the way to mental health and if it's the police I'll stand out front for the neighbors to hear....she wants everything to be a secret...while waiting for them but it's got to stop. I will do the parent sheet to take with me to the hospital appointment. and try to get the appointment for as soon as possible. I will discuss the residential treatment with them and my fears about her not going to residential treatment and see what they think. I will feel like I did everything possible then before throwing my hands up in defeat. Maybe I'll get a miracle between now and then.

On a positive note, she loves school after all that homeschooling and really really wants to stay in this school. After yesterdays melt down and our discussion last night she seemed to try for the first time in forever today after school. I had to run to the store and I got home 5 min. after she was dropped off by the bus. I saw the bus so knew exactly how long she had been home when I pulled up. When I came in the house she had already changed and was out doing her chores. That is a first- ever. Normally she would be into something of mine and not be even considering doing any chores she had. She must be taking this at least a little seriously. It was so out of character for her. I told her I was proud of her and not to stop just because I said I was proud of her and she didn't. She finished her chores pleasantly. She really wants to go to school in this particular school because she knows kids there from way back to preschool and doesn't want to have to leave and go to a new school. Her report card came today too. 1 A, 2 C's and 1D. The others were pass/fail and she passed. If wanting school can get us through till we get the evaluation it will be such a blessing.

 

[susiestar]

You sure have a wonderful, generous and loving heart! It can be so difficult to deal with a difficult child and doing iit not just as her Gma but also with-o a partner to help you is a testament to how much you love her. I am NOT blowing sunshine up your skirt with this.

One thing I vehemently believe in is the instinct of the parent. I am using parent to describe you here, so don't think that this isn't about/for you because you are her gma. Reality is that you function as her parent and so I will lump you with the rest of us. On this journey you will be bombarded with stories of how other people 'fixed' their kids, etc... and with directions from doctors that range from the wonderfully helpful to the "afraid to let you care for my pet worm much less a human" to the bizarre/idiotic.

All of these people have very strong opinions about what you should do to help difficult child. Most don't have a clue to go with that opinion. Even the docs and therapists and teachers and 'professionals' have their ideas. They all have 'credentials', the badges. stethoscopes and offices with toys etc... They are 'experts' and what are YOU? Some of these 'experts' will get very upset if you want a second opinion or you don't agree with them. As you talk to these people, remember that they have spent minutes with difficult child. even her teachers don't spend the time with her that you do.

They are "experts" in a field of study. YOU are the expert on/about your difficult child. Period. You have spent years loving and caring for this incredibly disturbed girl. You KNOW her. Listen to that Mommy Gut Instinct and follow it. I know that the biggest mistakes I EVER made with my oldest child were made because I trusted a doctor's or teacher's plan more than my own instincts.

We have suggested that you do things that you are not ready for/don't feel is the right thing at this point in time. This is okay. You are NOT required to take our advice/suggestions. We understand that we are not seeing the situation in real life and we are not living it exactly as you are. So there will be times when our advice is wrong. No matter what, we will support you and what you think is best for your daughter. The phrase "take what you like, lose the rest is totally appropriate for this online family that you have joined here at the CD Board. (((((hugs)))))

 

[buddy]

That really sounds hopeful. Lots of kids, esp Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD) kids can't tolerate praise. It might mean they are loved and attaching .....Know what I mean?? My son is only now accepting more praise and even saying thanks. BUT it has to be a quick compliment or a non-verbal one. The non-verbal is how we built up. Sometimes he'd find a snack at his place on the table or id cook a favorite. Sometimes a thumbs up (quick ) and now high fives are ok. I can even say I'm proud of him if he's in a good mood.
Sure makes it hard to do positive reinforcement when they are so programed to push people away.

 

[DammitJanet]

Have you ever read the diagnostic criteria for conduct disorder. I am betting she meets most of them. Or is sliding into them fast. Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD) and CD tend to go together lots of times. When these kids hit 18, you end up with a person with antisocial personality disorder. That is a really nasty diagnosis with a really poor outcome. At her age there are some forms of treatment that can sometimes help. Sometimes. Not always. It is a much more difficult diagnosis than most. Im not going to lie to you. The best chance she has is to be in a locked down facility where she has to learn that rules are meant for her and she has to abide by them too. Someplace where the staff isnt emotionally attached to her and she cannot manipulate them as she can people who care about her.

 

[BusynMember]

Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD) and CD are essentially the same thing, symptom-wise. Just throwing in that trivia.

 

[DaisyFace]

If she has a melt down like yesterday I will take her to emergency mental health and leave her. They made clear last time they would take her after our evaluation but it would be temporary in the hospital and she would go to a live in situation from there.

This sounds like a good plan.

Just wanted to pass along something I learned the hard way:

If it should come down to taking her to the hospital - Please PLEASE use the word "placement" when you admit her. You need the hospital to place her in a residential facility.

If you leave any other possibility on the table, they will send her home with you again.

 

[TerryJ2]

Just sending hugs.

 

[SuZir]

If you look diagnostic criteria conduct disorder is much better diagnosis for a child like this than Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD). DSM -IV or ICD-10 are not talking anything like this behaviour in criteria for Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD). Very much talking about it with Conduct disorder. You can find Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD) criteria for example from here: http://www.radkid.org/dsm-iv_313.html and for conduct disorder from here: http://behavenet.com/conduct-disorder Latter one is much better describing your GD in this point even though Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD) is likely to be a background factor for her developing conduct disorder.