will

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
Copa...did I read this right that you loved your mom?
Yes, I did. And as she was dying I fell in love with her.

It's wonderful that you can see her positive aspects.
But I did not love my mother for her positive aspects. I had been trained as a small child to worship things about her, particularly her beauty and the way she turned on her charm when she wanted to, especially when she went out. But my appreciation of these things was as if a trained dog. I had been groomed or cultivated to do so.

My mother's positive aspects were considerable, apart from her beauty. She was brilliant, extremely strong and competent. She was ambitious and a hard worker. I respected these attributes. But I did not love her for them.

I loved her because that is who I am, and who I chose to be in relation to my mother at the end of her life.

I loved her as she died because she permitted me to love her, and I fell in love with her at the end because she was courageous and strong, and because we went through it together. And however sad this may be, for each of us, we never had more together than we did as my mother died. And I will be forever grateful for this.

Cedar really nails it here: You love them to create who you are. Not because of what they are or who they have been. It is almost as if you learn to love them in spite of it.
how sincerely I tried to create a space where all were welcome.

Well, that is good for me that I did those things.

Now I know who I am.

Copa describes in her mother. There is something in my mother too, about how money does or does not impart value.
Actually, that is my sister, Cedar. My mother did not need money to impart value. My mother a priori had high value. She wanted money because it was power and because she deserved it. And because she deserved it she could do whatever it took to get it. No matter what.

Was your mother insisting, as mine does, that she be honored as matriarch, as wise woman, as an unshakable source of support and wisdom though she was never any of those things to her children?
Cedar, my Mom was like your Mom in this. She believed worship and dedication were her due, despite being an indifferent mother, at best. She did not pretend to have been a good mother. To her, that she be treated as if the best mothers were treated, was her due, despite the reality that completely contradicted such.

Like when she took my sister's and my inheritance, knowing it was not hers. It did not matter that there was a valid will. Not one bit.

The only thing that mattered was her entitlement. What she wanted was rightly hers. And it was rightly hers if she wanted it. She was truly an emperor with no clothes. And my sister is the same.

I had posted before about the Rolex watches, and how though she did not have one, those who did not have one either, were less than she would be, one day.
Again, this is my sister. There was something about houses for her. That she even looked at, went to open houses in top drawer neighborhoods, like Bel Air, or Upper East Side or Pacific Heights in SF, meant to her that she was in the elite, better than everybody else. Especially me.

But actually she saw to it that she did buy homes in places such as this. Because if you put these things above anything else, they become attainable, I guess.

For so long I felt sorry for myself because it seemed so cruel that my relationship with my son became so difficult, after I had suffered so, lacking a family as a child and adult. And then when things got so hard for us, it felt like more than I could bear, as if there was something in me, about me, that could not successfully relate or even love.

I am grateful to each of you for opening up about your parents and sisters, as well as your children, because I no longer feel so alone. And most importantly, by seeing clearly that is was not your fault, possibly, I can come to forgive myself, as well.
 
Last edited:

nlj

Well-Known Member
Hi All

Isn't it great when a thread develops a mind of its own and carries on in its own direction?

Reading all your stories has been quite enlightening. Thanks.

Just responding to a few points:

How did you come to know about the will, and are you absolutely sure you are not in it? Have you actually read the will and do you have any reason to believe your mother is seriously ill or mentally unstable? Do you have a good relationship with your brother?

I have a copy of her will. I was given it by her lawyer after my father died and he dealt with the estate. I believe my mother has Borderline Personality Disorder, not diagnosed, but her behaviour ticks all the boxes. I have a good relationship with my brother, I respect his choice to have nothing to do with my mother, he's had counseling about her, he thinks I'm mentally unstable because I carry on seeing her.

she can bribe your brother into coming to see her

That's very insightful Witz. I think you have nailed her. The more I think about this, the more I can see that this is true.

I'm not going to see her for a while. I'll see how that feels.
 

recoveringenabler

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Hi nlj. I'm sorry for the hurt this has caused.
I have a mother who has caused harm to me too.

I'm not going to see her for a while. I'll see how that feels.

I think that's a good idea. I separated from my mother for close to 2 years about 12 years ago. During that time, my counselor gave me some very good input about how manipulative my mother was, how she appeared one way, but was actually something completely different. She told me my mother was proficient at "reaching to the core of me and extracting what SHE wanted." It was a visual I couldn't deny or forget. That time of separation actually changed the dynamic for she and I. She grew a life without using me and I cut a dysfunctional cord which had kept me tied to her.

My mother burned my Dad's will the evening he died and then denied doing it. No one questioned the decade long traveling the world she did after his death.

Similar to the journey with my daughter, I learned to accept the way it is. It is not anywhere close to what would be considered a healthy, positive relationship, it just is what it is. She lived with me for a short time and I asked her to go live with my brother, that I was burned out on caring for people and wanted my life back. That was an important step......to choose myself.

Somehow over time, it lost it's charge for me, just like what happened with my daughter...I worked on myself and learned about self love...I am grateful for that since that "mother wound" had taken up a lot of space in my life previously. It doesn't anymore. That 2 year separation cut the dysfunction and for me, served to get me to detachment. After being a major issue for me for a good part of my life, it's a non issue now. I feel free of both my mother AND my daughter.

This may be the catalyst for you to step back and see it all from that separate point of view......now you can "mother" yourself.

Sending you a big hug nlj. xoxoxox
 

pasajes4

Well-Known Member
I have given this topic a great deal of thought lately. Why do we feel that our relationship with family is supposed to be this magical all is right with world entity? Our parents are humans. There was never in all of humankind a promise that our families would be what we need. My mother was the perfect mother for my sister, but she was the wrong fit for me. This had more to do with me than with her. It would not have mattered what she did. I think that it hurt her to the core that I was always a bit aloof and distant. The faults that I saw/see in my mother are the very things that are true of me. It is up to me to do better. Just my two cents and ramblings.
 

Nomad

Well-Known Member
Staff member
I think for myself and maybe others here, I didn't see my father as magical or expect him to be. I would have accepted neutral. And I do understand about seeing our parents as human. I see that more with my mother. I could waste my time being upset with certain things, but I totally see my mom as "human," faults and all. And I smile every time I think of her.

But my father was harmful, devious, violent...etc. and as children, we are innocent, naive, vulnerable and in need of protection and nurturing. Children, the elderly and the infirm are even protected by law due to their vulnerability. It's NOT ok in my book to prey on this vulnerability and it somehow is even less ok if a parent purposefully harms his or her own child...even an adult child. As an adult, I have accepted that my father was simply incapable and disturbed. It's sad, really.

And when he died, my only prayer was that in the afterlife he would find health (mental) and peace. I have found this for myself on my own and do understand it is and always was my responsibility.

by the way, I took frequent breaks and often long ones from my father. Well worth it. Life moved on even with some difficulties. Even our difficult child knows that being unkind won't be tolerated for very long. I know with her mood swings it isn't easy for her, but she is not mean spirited and she curtails excessive crxp. And when she gets close to the edge, she apologies later. This to me, is human. (But, I will think about what you said Pasajes...very interesting input!!!)
 
Last edited:

witzend

Well-Known Member
That's very insightful Witz. I think you have nailed her. The more I think about this, the more I can see that this is true.

I'm not going to see her for a while. I'll see how that feels.

Do you remember the Smothers Brothers? "Mom liked you best." "No, Mom liked you best!"

She sounds like a master manipulator. I'm glad that you're not going to go see her for a while. It might be a good time to discuss with a therapist how it feels. I don't know what the right answer is for you, but you shouldn't be this miserable.
 

nlj

Well-Known Member
She sounds like a master manipulator. I'm glad that you're not going to go see her for a while. It might be a good time to discuss with a therapist how it feels. I don't know what the right answer is for you, but you shouldn't be this miserable.

Actually Witz, her behaviour means that all obligation on my part is removed. If she was a 'normal' loving mother I would probably be stressing about visiting her as often as possible and worrying about her and doing loads of things for her. As it is, the obligation has been removed by her, so I don't feel guilty if I don't visit for a while. Maybe it's a loads off. Every cloud ...

My misery is mainly to do with my own behaviour, how I don't understand why I carry on visiting. It's also do to with feeling a bit cheated I suppose. It would have been nice to have a mother I could turn to. Instead I have a mother who wouldn't recognise my troubled son if she passed him in the street. She cares only about herself, in fact she cares so much about herself only, that she doesn't really need me to care about her.

I don't do therapists. I just walk on beaches and drink Earl Grey tea :).
 

Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
If she was a 'normal' loving mother I would probably be stressing about visiting her as often as possible and worrying about her and doing loads of things for her.

I think I know what you mean, nlj. For us, there are many beautiful rhythms of simple day to day loving that we cannot relax into like we would if we were able to live as our best selves. We see how it is with other mothers and daughters ~ we see the way families encompass and change and mellow and strengthen as they care for and even, celebrate the mother.

Our mothers think and behave so strangely.

There comes a time when we realize we're being overtaken and eroded away by close contact. Almost as though we've been standing by, watching the person we believed we were wither away.

I do love my mom. But she does some very mean things, right to this day; that seems like such a wrong thing to know about your own mother.

That wrongness is a strange, strange thing to incorporate into our realities, somehow.

Perhaps thinking as pasa does is the way to see it.

I know what you mean though about how right it feels to want to see them and help them and cherish them with special things. That is a very good feeling; I have had fun bringing my mother special little things.

May I ask, nlj, how your brother sees himself now that he chooses not to see the mother?

I am glad you two still see one another and can speak openly about what is happening.

Cedar
 

nlj

Well-Known Member
May I ask, nlj, how your brother sees himself now that he chooses not to see the mother?
Sorry Cedar, only just seen this!

He sees himself as someone who's been damaged by his mother's behaviour.
He sees himself as someone who no longer tolerates being the victim in an abusive relationship.
He see himself as someone who will carry on needing therapy for most of his adult life.

He also sees himself as someone with a sister and a nephew that he'll always be there for in times of need. After all, he and I are the only two people who really understand what it's been like to have this particular person as a mother.
 

Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
He sees himself as someone who's been damaged by his mother's behaviour.
He sees himself as someone who no longer tolerates being the victim in an abusive relationship.
He see himself as someone who will carry on needing therapy for most of his adult life.

"He sees himself as someone who no longer tolerates being the victim in an abusive relationship."

I like that phrase for myself now, nlj.

Thank you.

:O)

My misery is mainly to do with my own behaviour, how I don't understand why I carry on visiting. It's also do to with feeling a bit cheated I suppose. It would have been nice to have a mother I could turn to. Instead I have a mother who wouldn't recognise my troubled son if she passed him in the street. She cares only about herself, in fact she cares so much about herself only, that she doesn't really need me to care about her.

When I was still seeing my mom, I did as much as I could for her, too. It wasn't about what she needed or appreciated. It was about what I felt I needed to do; it was about my responsibility to an aging and increasingly vulnerable parent and I cut myself no slack.

We talked about this once with a group of friends over dinner. Those who had been well-mothered felt differently about their parent than those whose relationships to their parent had been abusive or conflicted. In the conflicted parent/child relationship, the anxiety of the adult child escalated whenever they interacted with the abusive parent. As they had when they were the abused children of an abusive mother, the adults whose relationships with their moms had been conflicted felt responsible for the mother's happiness, even as adults. The more they gave, the more the mothers expected and the less appreciative they became.

So, I thought about that, lot.

It could be different for you nlj, but interacting with my mom was really hard for me. My anxiety levels skyrocketed around my mother. I was aware of that. I told myself all the usual things: "I am all grown up; I am strong enough; I can do this. I love my mom." And my mom continued to say and do the strangest, most hurtful things. And my mom's toxic behavior's were attributed to "That's just how mom is."

***

I feel cheated too, nlj. Problems with the kids meant I was vulnerable to my FOO in ways I had not allowed in the past. I became uncertain, I opened up to them more than I had ever done...and they used my brokenness to hurt me. All I can conclude about my family of origin is that these are not people I would have in my life if they were not my family. I probably don't even love them. It feels wrong to have nothing to do with them in a way, but the longer I am away from them, the less often I think about them in the same way, or at all.

It is just like one of us posted: We never had those families we wished for. That is probably why we feel cheated even now, even when our weird, abusive parent is aging. They are still as abusive as they can get away with. The more we put up with, the more they dish out until we are seen as slaves or as some other kind of person without a right to joy or independence or pain.

I think now that my family of origin probably never did care about me. Not for myself. Maybe, I never did care about them, either. It could be true that, when relationships are so toxic, we think we should love one another, so we think we do.

What happens in my family of origin looks nothing in the world like love.

I don't know the answer, nlj. If my sister had not taken over with my mom the way she has, and if the toxicity had not elevated the way it has, I would still be taking care of her, too.

But the longer I am away from any of them, the less I think about them, at all.

So, those were the changes that happened for me as I went through declaring independence from my family of origin.

I can still feel puzzled and wrong and angry and confused when I think about my family of origin and how things were when we were together. It is a difficult situation, nlj. I am sorry this is happening to you, too.

Cedar
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
I did as much as I could for her, too. It wasn't about what she needed or appreciated. It was about what I felt I needed to do; it was about my responsibility to an aging and increasingly vulnerable parent
HI Cedar. I hope your fourth was a joy.

I pretty much neglected my mother until she got ill, and it was clear she could not go on alone. My sister who had always lived closed to her had moved across the country. It was clear cut. My mother needed help.

Our relationship as long as she remained healthy for the most part was on the phone. We kept it light. That we have some relationship was important to both of us.

For my mother, as a daughter I could always have been better and done more. She never believed she got the treatment to which she was entitled by right. She did not have those same expectations of herself as a mother. At some point I decided this was an arrangement that did not work for me. I left it.
They are still as abusive as they can get away with. The more we put up with, the more they dish out until we are seen as slaves or as some other kind of person without a right to joy or independence or pain.
This is exactly what happened when I assumed responsibility for my mother at the end. And this is why eventually I insisted we find another place for my mother to live, after bringing her to my home.

While she still had the personal power and strength to impose her will on me, she did. And I accepted the abuse, to a point. I still feel guilty that I tried to stop it.

Because she declined horribly when she could no longer control her environment. In the Board and Care home they did not allow dictators. When she was no longer able to dominate and abuse, she felt abused, and she denounced them as abusers.

But I felt as if I was her abuser, too. Because I did not allow her to continue to abuse me. I felt the abuser.

But she did not stop abusing me and blaming be for it all, in any way she could. To her, it was my fault. That was when she began the screaming when I would arrive where she lived. And to tell the caretaker that she cared not one bit if I came or not. She abused as long as she cold.

Her arrogance. Her entitlement. Were not tolerated. To her this was abuse.

As I think about it now, I realize that my mother's worldview was based upon power. She wanted power and needed it. She would never submit, even at the end. In a perfect world she would not have had to. People get old, and cannot any longer control her environment.

The intention was to have her live with us until she died, without interruption, and we did care for her in our home for the last 4 months of her life. But while she had power she could not stop herself from treating me badly. She did so as long as she could.
I think now that my family of origin probably never did care about me. Not for myself.
I see it this way. My mother loved me in the way she could. Being who she was, she loved the way she could. I believe my mother at some points in my life could see me as I was. But she never helped me to realize my dreams or even protect myself. It was not a priority.
 
Last edited:

Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
I pretty much neglected my mother until she got ill, and it was clear she could not go on alone.

I think neglect is a value-laden word, Copa. "Benign neglect" might be a more appropriate phrase. Copa? "Self-protected from" is another. For whatever reason Copa, our moms saw everyone and everything in strictest terms of value to themselves. For my mom, I believe very much that this is true. We (my sibs and I) were and continue to be, no more than the current set of actors on her stage. It could be that for her, for my mom, we have no other reality.

This is an adult woman who beat her own children, who continued to abuse them into their adulthoods, who continued to seek power over them in every way possible.

Remember my posting about my mom muttering "Rich man's hostas!" and tearing up the living plants in my professionally landscaped garden the first time she saw it?

Who does things like that?!

Remember my posting that my own mother said to me that she enjoyed the jealousy between my sister and I over my mother?

My sister and I were both in our fifties, Copa. Jealousy issues should have been long resolved; those kinds of issues should have been resolved through compassion as we matured, should have been resolved and healed through the changing perspectives on all things that happens as we mature.

Yet, my mom believed herself to have found, and celebrated the existence of, jealousy over her between the sisters.

It would make sense that this would be a truth she could enjoy. It places her center stage; it makes her the tyrannical king again.

These people may never, ever change. Beating small children is an aberrant behavior. Our moms never stopped beating us, they only stopped hitting. Maybe, that would have been next.

I'm sure it is happening somewhere to this day.

Or that abusive old moms are screaming their adult children awake in the middle of the night.

She never believed she got the treatment to which she was entitled by right. She did not have those same expectations of herself as a mother.

When I think about my mom and what I think she believes herself entitled to, I remember that she tried to turn each of the daughter's husbands away from her daughters. D H has never repeated what she told him. My sister's first husband, her second husband, and her third husband and both my sister's daughters were told terrible things about my sister. The daughters had been subverted separately. Each was asked, and told the mother what the grandmother had said. My sister confronted my mother with her daughters.

I think it goes back to not seeing us as real, Copa.

I am thinking about the "Rich man's hostas!" incident, again.

My mom was actually digging at the roots of the living plants with her bare fingers.

You know what we did after that?

Had dinner.

At my house.

That I cooked.

While she still had the personal power and strength to impose her will on me, she did. And I accepted the abuse, to a point. I still feel guilty that I tried to stop it.

This is a good place for you to begin working then, Copa.

Why do you feel guilty for taking a stand for yourself, Copa? What are the negative tapes saying and who is speaking?

You have the right to claim your life, Copa. But like me, and like SWOT too, you will have to fight your internal mother for it.

The little girl that you were when she taught you who you were needs you to save her, Copa. The lion, the scarecrow, and the tin man going in to save Dorothy; the Wizard behind the curtain turning out to be a used car salesman from Kansas; Sleeping Beauty awakening at love's first kiss; the Rose, her four thorns all she has against the world, the unmuzzled sheep hungry.

In order for her to parade in the fire attending her own child's destruction, your mother taught you you were not worthy of defense, Copa. No boundaries allowed for you, or for me.

Four thorns, Copa.

No more than four little thorns, in all that wide, wide world.

As I think about it now, I realize that my mother's worldview was based upon power.

I think my mom's worldview is based upon finding and creating victims. Like any predator. That is just what they do, predators and abusers; that is just who they are.

The difference is that our cowardly abusers could not stop stupidly abusing, could not resist abusing and creating victims of, their own offspring.

It boggles the mind.

But she never helped me to realize my dreams or even protect myself. It was not a priority.

No. As it seems was the case where my mom is concerned too Copa, a daughter who felt who felt she had a right to protect or to cherish herself would be a less amenable, less pliable, less hateful, victim. Two daughters who loved one another would be seen as a threat to the abuser.

And so, we lost our sisters, too.

Though I still say my sister was given the opportunity of making a different choice and did not.

Cedar
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
Copa, you did not "neglect" your mother. You refused her abuse. Until she was so ill she finally needed you she was unkind to you. She was the neglectful one.
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
But I felt as if I was her abuser, too. Because I did not allow her to continue to abuse me. I felt the abuser.
One thing I learned but good both in therapy and from every self-help book around, FEELINGS AREN'T FACTS.

You were actually the one abused, but your mother brainwashed you for so long that you felt YOU abused her every time you didn't dance to her tune. Think about it and you'll see it with clarity. You don't want to see your mother as abusive, but she was. That is her legacy...abusing you and maybe your sister, which made your sister mean. We all react differently. Some give in. Some are both passive sometimes, then fight back (this was me), some turn out to be just like our abusers. Most of us with complex post traumatic stress disorder believe what our abusers say about it.By golly, if they call us abusive, WE ARE. If they say we are no good, useless, selfish, ugly, WE ARE. If they tell us we are borderline or schizophrenic or bipolar or brain damaged, WE ARE. That's the Stockholm Syndrome, which is part of surviving with somebody who thinks you are horrible. You learn to agree or you can't be with the person because not agreeing causes one of two outcomes:

1. The person throws you out of their life (which abused kids especially and many abused adults don't want...our inner child wants a mommy. Even a bad mommy. We may not even recognize that they are the bad ones. We may think it's us. We usually think it's us.

2. The person not only throws you out, but tries to get everyone else to throw you out too. These abusers can not tolerate being called out on their abuse with examples of it. They won't calmly listen, even if we speak calmly. They won't hear of it. They never do anything wrong. YOU DO.

I have thought about how I'd feel if somebody who as not me was telling me about my mom...her night raids, her horrible names, her mocking of me, her disinterest in anything about me unless I cut my hair or didn't want to sing anymore or dated gentiles. If somebody told me her mother had admitted she had no feelings for the baby that was the person. How would YOU feel if somebody told you your own story?

Wouldn't you think, "What a nut?" Meaning the mother. "How *(*(#( mean?"

What if you saw a mother in a store loudly mocking her child. I've seen it in Goodwill. The parents were mocking their little boy for crying because he wanted them to buy him a doll.

"OH, look, Mac (Not his name) wants a doll just like a girl!"
"Yeah, he does act a lot like a little girl. Listen, son, you're a boy and boys don't play with dolls!"
"But he's NOT a boy, Charlie (not his name). He's a GIRL." (mother giggles. Man laughs)
Little boy, as they continue, has his forehead against the cart and his crying desperate tears. We are not allowed to confront customers. I wanted to smash t heir faces together for that pour little boy.

Copa, you were brainwashed. Cedar, you were brainwashed. Anyone else who was abused and feels "bad about making mom or dad abuse me" is brainwashed. I was brainwashed and "they" keep trying to keep brainwash me.

in my opinion it is not good to be around these people, whoever "them" is in your life. Why? Nobody else sees you as bad, lazy, no good, useless, stupid, etc. etc. etc. Not even close friends and spouse who know you better than your FOO collection ever did. Nobody else thinks these things about you so you start to see that the FOO, just acting like a run-of-the-mill dysunfctional family, are wrong, even if they believe it about you very much. Na, na, na, na, na, na, na, na, hey, hey...GOOD-BYE (blowing a final kiss).

I find that this treatment goes away without "them" in my life because other people like you and don't see you the way "them" does.

That way I can get my head on straight and remember that "them" have no training in psychology and don't even realize the abuse in our house and have no credentials to tell anyone what they are like psychologically. And if they think you're "bad", well, who cares? They're *poof* now and what they say is not in your space and does not affect your life.

I do not miss "them." My mother has been dead ten years and I guiltily admit I never spent one day missing her. I do not miss the "thems" who are still alive.

If anyone has the ability (and, yes, it takes ability) to disconnect from the "thems" in your lives, you will lfind a new peace. I am actually surprised by what the difference is without my "thems." I have a realistic picture of me, the good, bad and neutral. I am much happier.

Copa, your mother seems to have had a stronger hold over you than mine had over me. I'm not sure why. Maybe because she controlled your every move and m ine just cared about a few things, like not owning a Barbie, and most of the time just let me do what I wanted to do without caring one bit about what I was or wasn't learning to be a responsible adult. This matters. The hold they have on us makes it harder.

I truly think my mom would have eventually blown it off if I had dropped out of school, except that she wanted to please HER mom and my grandmother would not have liked it.

"I won't take you to a psychiatrist, SWOT. Mrs. R. did it for D. and he told her that D's problems were HER fault. I'm not going to take you to a psychiatrist just so you can hear that." Moral of the story: It's all about them.
 
Last edited:

Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
It goes beyond her inability to empathise.

I agree.

My mom created, behind closed doors, a world that reflected and serviced a kind of towering grandiosity. I think that is the feeling. A kind of take no prisoners tyranny with herself as...not king so much as drill sargent or slave master ~ some mid-level power abuser unsavoriness, like Emmy Slattery's husband in Gone With the Wind.

Illegitimate; twisted.

I feel badly when I look at my mother this way. I do love her, after all.

I do, and I wish I did not.

She shines for me, in my memory. That is probably a construct. Beneath it is the spit-flying, screaming woman who hits. Whooo! She is so ugly and stupid and I hate her.

***

I will need to choose a mother substitute. That will be Ariana Huffington. I watched an interview in which she described her children, and her feelings for her own mother. She obviously loves and honors and respects them all.

I feel angry with myself when I see my mother as she is.

What does anyone have, what does anyone know, on the dynamic, there? Touch the hatred, re-experience the powerlessness where it was formed...what comes next? Frankenstein, unfreezing with a vengeance. Not just thawing, anymore. Magically unfreezing, color swooping and rising and shading everything in the most beautiful shades of pink.

This only happens when we let self-condemnation go; when we refuse it; when we see our mothers for who they are and for what they did and take our own sides.

Of course I would hate my mother for what she did to me then, and for who she is, now. Of course I would create a better than the real mom imagery that I could love and look up to. That is the feeling of dissonance. I know the difference between what was real and what I allow myself to know.

So dissonance is a feeling to be sought.

In fact, it is dissonance I am describing when I post that I am so surprised. That sense of disbelief is dissonance. A wrong note clanking away at the heart of the symphony.

Dissonance.

That is where we will learn true things about how we made sense of what happened to us so we can bring ourselves back. We are like Isis ourselves in that sense. We are searching for the lost parts and incorporating them into one that one whole, complete, loving being we grieve so fiercely, and long to see, again.

Ourselves.

That is what Copa was describing, maybe, when she posted about guilt at not allowing the mother to abuse her, or at not continuing to abuse herself at the mother's behest.

I wonder why I do not hate my mother, hate my sister and brothers? I mean, I do in a sense. It's like throwing all the toy soldiers into the air in frustration.

So perhaps I have my own grandiosity issues, along with the shame that attends them.

Or maybe, the only way I could tolerate seeing my family was to believe we could become something better than we were; or maybe, that this time things would be better.

Or maybe, I believed that if I did not play the game, they would stoop playing, too.

Or maybe, I had no option and never did, but to play the role I did play ~ the hope of and belief in symphysis, maybe.

Since my father's death, everyone is operating right out in the open and without anesthetic. They are creating Frankenstein of themselves and one another and calling it good. That is what they always do.

That is what they did to me.

Probably, I have always played some version of odd man out in my FOO.

And now, I am thawing out.

Oh, those freaking villagers with their fire and their pitchforks and their fear.

And what is the fear. That there is nothing better than what we know. That jettisoning what we know means confronting abandonment issues and there we are: mortality, again.

Oh, that Freud.

***

So...I am thinking of Ariana Huffington, who also worked full time and was a mom. She did not think of her children, did not create of her own children, what my mother did. It is important for us to seek adequate role models, so we can know how to see what happened to us, and how it should have been, instead. Why it happened the way it did is because our mothers were not sane people. (Our fathers...victims or villains?) We will deal with them once we have healed the belief systems we were hurt into, that all-things-service the-mom system, our mothers set up and continue to demand.

To this very day, my mom demands that kind of servile attendance from those in her life, and works to put others at a disadvantage. I see that in the way she talks about and treats the lady who drives her South; I see it in the way she talked to and about, the man who wanted to marry her. I see it in the way my sister encourages these kinds of things ~ participates in them! I still am so surprised. I hope I am not that way. These are probably the underlying reasons for my continually trying to find answers and balance in "ethical choice".

Well, good for me, then.

:O)

In a very real way, each of us has been enslaved. We are fighting now for intellectual freedom and for the right to spiritual freedom from the tenets of that time of enslavement. Other children, those we played with or studied with or dated, when we were young girls and the nature of the mother's abuse changed ~ those children had never been enslaved to the grandiose mother. (Or whatever the basic feeling underlying individual abuse. Could it be that each of the mothers circled the issue of grandiosity? Could that be a typical pattern, as we are learning that so much of what we were taught was specific to us is the typical symptom of a particular kind of illness, of a particular kind of worldview?) I am thinking here about "Don't you dare.", and about "Just don't think, Cedar." I am thinking about abandonment, and about what message a child would take from the abuser's neediness for grandiosity.

It is a heady way to look at what happened. To see the abuser through his or her wounds and recognize the betrayal of self and other in it.

I am thinking about my mother throwing my first story aside and then, taking writing classes herself later in her life. In a way, I am hating myself here for letting her teach me that my writing was...disgusting is not the word. Bad writing...that could be the word, but with a bullet: That I would even try. That is the thing my mother condemned; that is the thing that made her angry. That I would even dare try and that she found something of value in the writing that I was not allowed to possess. It was not ridicule that I felt. It was...it was like the threat of the physical threat of destruction.

Could it be that I stopped writing at my mother's response to my audacity in writing, and not because I believed...well of course. That is why I believed it was wrong to write when my children were so troubled and my family was falling apart.

My mother.

That is how I stepped into that belief system that rachetted me back to the how-it-looks self.


Oh for heaven's sake. My mother's abusive little fat fingers are everywhere in my life choices. Everywhere I have made a choice against myself, there is my freaking abusive mother.

I see you / I see you back.

Copa. What does your internal mother have to say about whether nap time is over? Every time you get up, she makes you go back to bed.

By what right, Copa?

***

And the pieces are falling into place. And the thing is beginning to move, for me...but I feel disloyal to my mother in naming her through my adult eyes. On rewrite: I no longer feel disloyal to my mother; I feel she is out there somewhere, and not the core of my psyche. There is a distance now between what she believes and who I am. I see her. Maybe that is what "I see you back." always meant. That there is a place inside me now from which I see and in which I am untouchable.

There is a Stephen King book: Dreamcatcher. The feeling is like that, like when the main character finds a place in his head where Mr. Gray is not.

***

So, those are my thoughts on that, this morning. Always, we must remember as we go through this material, that the important thing is not that we condemn our moms or sisters (or brothers) but that we see what happened to us, and what is still happening to us, through our own eyes. And that we stop seeing ourselves through the eyes of our abusers. That is what is happening around those issues of guilt or horrified disbelief or sadness or regret as our perspectives on our moms / sisters / brothers changes. We are seeing clearly for the first times. That thin sense of distaste for having been their victims may give rise to all kinds of feelings we have repressed for so long that we no longer remember we have them. So, we need to expect some discomfort. That is just fine. We are worth every bit of it. These are exactly the things we need to know ~ these are the feelings we need to acknowledge, if we are to heal.

We were abused.

In that sense, our stories are sad, ugly little things. That is fine just fine, too. Time to claim these parts of ourselves; time for rescue. We will be our own heroes.

I have been thinking about heroes, lately. About that song about heroes. "And he's got to be strong and he's got to be sure and he's got to be fresh from the fight."

Or however that goes.

I will find and post it here.

We are doing so well.

Cedar
 

Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member

So, this is the internal battle between ourselves and our internalized mothers ~ our internalized, legitimized, sanitized (as opposed to insane, maybe?) abusers; it is the battle between ourselves and everyone and anyone in our lives who has stepped into those mother wounds and abused us in her name while we tried to figure out the why or it, or the truth of it, in the rest of our lives.

This is, after all, the land of the Magical Child. That is where the damage was done us; that is where we must go to heal it.

Looks like I know everything again, this morning.

:O)

Cedar
 
Top