Advice for my 7year old daughter with ADHD/ODD.. I am afraid there's more.

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by Megs87, Oct 15, 2017.

  1. Megs87

    Megs87 New Member

    Hi everyone,
    I am new here so please bare with me if I am posting in the wrong threads or not giving enough details.
    Since I am new here I apologize for the length of this, there is so much I feel I need to explain for anyone to help me or understand. I am very open-minded and welcome all feed back.

    I have 2 children, 1 boy age 10 and 1 girl age 7. They are both ADHD diagnosed and on medication for it, My daughter is also ODD, (oppositional defiant disorder). I was just recently recommended to have her evaluated for high functioning autism. I have made the appointment but it will be next month. So until then I am hoping to get others opinion or advice.

    My daughter is having so many issues I am not sure where to start. Again, please bare with me if I am jumping around there is quite a few things I want to tell.

    Our First Issue- We are currently living with my parents and it is difficult with THREE adults who are not all on the same page. My father and I do not see eye to eye when it comes to her and he is, or comes off as, a know-it-all and since he is older and wiser I should always see his view or opinion as right. My mom thankfully resects my wishes and stays out of things and lets me take control when my children are in need of discipline. Please do not get me wrong, I am very grateful for my parents allowing us to stay here temporarily and understand we are in their home. I only want my father to wait until the children are not around to tell me he feels I handled something wrong, instead of undermining me in front of my kids. He will at times cut me off in mid sentence to get on to ALL THREE OF US. So my kids are seeing me as a sibling in ways and it causes more issues getting them to listen to me and know that I mean business. But our problems didn't start here and go further back then moving in with my parents.
    Second Issue - Her dad, my dad( her grandfather), a few other close relatives, and teachers/school officials are not very understanding and are known to trigger things a lot. She only has one volume and its LOUD! It can get louder when she is excited or angry but never lower. I have never once seen or heard her whisper in her 7 years of life. So her volume results in her getting into trouble and embarrasses her and therefore will trigger a melt down. I truly believe she is not capable of a low tone, especially if she is excited in any way. I have tried to talk to them about it but I am told I am just getting in her way by always making excuses for her. That is the last thing I want if true.

    That is a little of what goes on as far as home and school life. I am about to explain some of her behavior or symptoms. Again, I hope I am making sense.

    Social Behavior- She is very social and loves to play with and make friends, but she is not very good at it. Some of it is typical, "My way or the highway" thinking for children but she goes to far with it When she gets something she wants to do in her mind she is relentless with her ways to get it. She will say hateful things and become physical and then doesn't understand why the other kids left or doesn't want to play with her anymore. It is like she doesn't understand her actions are running them away. You try and talk to her and explain and she just doesn't understand why no one can just do what she wants. It is all of their fault and not hers. They are the mean ones because they wouldn't do what she wanted.

    Lack of Empathy- I have witnessed her get upset when she noticed she upset me but that's it. She doesn't show empathy with anyone else. She will get physical with her sibling or another friend and trying to get her to tell anyone sorry is torture for her. She refuses to say sorry to anyone and will ask me, "Why should I say I am sorry if I am not sorry?" In a way I do understand because she is being asked or made to say something that to her is a lie! She can have another kid that is her friend in tears and she just doesn't care because they should have did what she wanted. It was their fault not hers.

    Impulse Control- She will flip out over the littlest things. Unfortunately some kids on her bus have figured this out and find it funny to make faces at her where the driver can not see them and she will scream at the top of her lungs for them to stop or will throw something or kick the back of the seat. This is obviously nerve racking for the driver but also the driver feels she should just ignore them. Sounds simple I know but it isn't that simple for her. She has broken so many things over impulse. Priceless things that will make anyone upset which adds fuel to the fire.

    Thanks again for reading. There are more things of course but I am running out of time and will post more when I get the chance, but for now, all of the above are the main things that seem to make life hard for her.

    Megs87




     
  2. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I highly recommend a neuropsycological evaluation for Daughter. A neuropsychologist is a special type of psychologist with extra training in the brain. They do intensive testing. My son was tested for ten hours over ywo days.

    Not all neuropsychologists or any professonal is equally skilled so call an autism society for some names. Thats what I did. A neuropsychologist does not just look for autism...he or she will look for things others who are not as thorough would miss. Another poster here had a bad experience with one i believe because her son was expected to answer or write things, but ours did not make our son do that at all. He observed and tested and the testing got my son, now 24, on a good track for life.

    For what its worth, i think your father and other relatives are acting like jerks (sorry) and Id leave ASAP. Very ASAP! You have a better understanding of your daughter than they do, but you cant change their minds. Can you stay with someone more understanding? Father is demeaning you to your children (never good) and hurting your daughter, who is differently wired and needs help, not a spanking. She could very well have a form of autism. Or some other disorder. But she is NOT "bad" and all the discipline in the world wont help. She needs a diagnosis and you need to learn to take your fathers words as words of someone with a big ego and no clue.

    How is your husband with all this? You and he need to get on tje same page, even if that takes marital counseling.

    Welcome and you are a very caring mother who understands her kid's needs.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2017
  3. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    Welcome!! Don't worry about writing too much or going on too long. I write a LOT! This will probably be a pretty long answer and won't be as well organized as yours. For a first post, yours was amazing! You got a ton of information across to us in a very clear and concise way. That is wonderful!!!

    I am not sure who is doing your evaluation coming up. It would help to know what sort of professional is doing this evaluation. Of course go, but do NOT turn anything over to the school right away,. Think about it and maybe come here and talk about it first. If they say nothing is wrong or that it is not autism, don't take it as gospel. There are a lot of wrong diagnosis in this sort of thing. When we first started looking for help for my oldest (Wiz), we were told that it takes an average of 7 years to get a correct diagnosis. It was frightening to hear. We were lucky in that we got a diagnosis that made sense from the first psychiatrist we took our son to. It is the diagnosis that held up when he went through extensive testing, and the one that he still has today. It just fits perfectly with his behavior and who he is. When other doctors tried to change it, they could never explain how their diagnosis fit his behavior in a way that made sense. This is rare

    Usually a child does not fit a diagnosis so clearly. My son had times where he did not fit the diagnosis so clearly (teenage hormones distorted things greatly, shudder). Most of the time, diagnosing a child is as much art as science. Take your time and be careful with what you believe in. Read, research, and make sure it makes sense to you in light of what you know about your child. Listen to your instincts above all else. If your instincts say that something is wrong, especially is they say it is really wrong, go with your instinct. The times I made really big mistakes are the times I ignored my instincts. Doctors and therapists and specialists are experts in whatever they studies. They are NOT NOT NOT experts in your child. You are the expert in your child. You carried your child in your body for months. You spend all day every day focused on your child. Sure, you think about other things, but most of what you do is for the benefit of your child. This makes you the unqualified expert in your child. (No matter what your father says.) This means that you can over-rule what the experts say if they are making no sense. Think carefully about what they say, of course, but always feel free to find another expert who will listen to you and do a better job if this expert is an idiot (because some of them just are idiots. Trust me.)

    Something is going on with your child. What you say about not understanding other people's point of view is classic autism. She sounds very high functioning, and of course girls are very different in how they present than boys are. One thing that many people don't seem to understand is that kids do well when they can. Not when they want to, when they are able to. Your daughter is getting into trouble and having trouble because she just doesn't understand what is being asked of her. Did you know that at one time adhd was considered a symptom of some types of autism? The type that my son has (once called Asperger's) was once considered to have adhd as a symptom. Now adhd is considered "comorbid", which is a fancy way of saying that it goes along with the autism. Whatever.

    Has your daughter ever been evaluated for sensory integration disorder? This is generally part of autism. Some people only have this, and some have this and many other symptoms of autism. What is Sensory Integration Disorder (SID)? Overwhelming!!! Your brain doesn't handle the input from your senses the way a normal person's brain does. This means that everything is too something. Too much, too little, but very rarely just right. Given your daughter's volume issues, I strongly suspect that she would benefit from occupational therapy. Of course she should have a hearing test first, but at least the school or her pediatrician should have done this already.

    I have Sensory Integration Disorder (SID) and never knew what it was until I my 3rd child was about 4. He couldn't cope with preK every day. He would get overwhelmed and come home and shake for hours like he was cold. He wasn't cold. He was overwhelmed. If I sent him to school 3 or 4 days in a row, he would hide under a desk and pretty much be catatonic for a few hours. It really freaked out both the teachers and students because that is far from who he normally is. He just didn't have other signs of autism, so our psychiatrist sent us to an Occupational Therapist for an evaluation. We chose a private one rather than a school one because I wanted to know how it impacted his entire life rather than just his education. A school Occupational Therapist (OT) will only look at how the problem impacts the child's education.

    It was incredible. My child was significantly impaired in fine motor skills and had substantial sensory problems. Then the therapist tried gentle joint compressions to see what would happen. Tyler's confidence improved, his self esteem improved, and his motor skills improved. This was after less than 45 seconds of the therapist gently compressing his joints. It was shocking to me! At this point the therapist let my son play while she spoke with me. She told me that my child had Sensory Integration Disorder (SID) and was quite impaired with it. He probably couldn't handle a 5 day school week and might not be able to for some time. In our next session she taught me brushing therapy, which included those joint compressions. I had done some reading and was inspired. It still took us 4 years to get my son to a 5 day school week, but our school worked with us and never held it against him.

    I think brushing therapy is something your daughter would likely benefit from. Children with Sensory Integration Disorder (SID) experience a world that is attacking them. It is too loud, or not loud enough. Their clothes can be hurting them. I had a mom who understood that if I said my clothing itched, it meant I would not be able to think of anything else all day, so she would not make me wear the clothing. Most kids are not that lucky. Itchy clothing was a major thing for me. It might not be for your daughter. Sounds are clearly a thing for her. She seems to need to make loud noise with her voice. It may be to drown out other sounds, or because of the sensation of the air in her mouth or lungs. Does she like it when you are loud? Or does she cover her ears? Loud music? These are all clues to help you figure out what is going on with her. Either way, something is going on with her senses.

    The great thing about brushing therapy, especially when combined with the gentle joint compression, is that it is proven to change how the brain handles input from the senses. It actually changes the pathways in the brain. Essentially it rewires the brain! This is done without any medications. Children generally like the therapy because it feels good. It can be done under or over clothes, whatever is convenient and feels best to the child. You have to be taught this by an occupational therapist because if you do it incorrectly, you can create real problems for your child. If you brush the stomach area, you can create digestive problems, for example. Other than that, it is easy and fast and it makes such a change in your child. I can remember my mother was incredibly skeptical about this. She thought it was impossible for it to make any real change. Then she saw the change in Tyler's handwriting before brushing and after brushing. She was just astounded. She also saw how much more confident he was after.

    The other aspect of Sensory Integration Disorder (SID) treatment is called a sensory diet. You work to make sure that your child has this every day, just like you provide a balanced nutritional diet. The sensory diet is a group of activities that she can do to provide different types of sensory input. For some reason my son used to spend hours watching tv while sitting on his head (yes, upside down). We always thought he was just being a weird kid, but actually there was something sensory about the pressure on his head and being upside down that he needed. Being my 3rd kid, it wouldn't have occurred to me to tell him to stop unless he was pestering his siblings with his feet or something. It was nice to let him do what he wanted and call it therapy though. The fun thing about sensory diets is that the activities your kids need are the ones they are drawn to. If they don't want to do an activity, or they hate an activity, they shouldn't do it. So you don't have to force it!!! I found that to be a big win for parenting - therapy that I didn't have to force! I just made sure he had lots of screen free time (time without electronic entertainment) to do things he found fun.

    You can learn more about Sensory Integration Disorder (SID) by reading The Out of Sync Child by Kranowitz. It explains the disorder in detail and explains the ways to treat it. Most libraries have it. You can also read The Out of Sync Child Has Fun by Kranowitz . If I could only buy one of these books, I would buy Has Fun. It truly is packed with fun activities for all types of sensory needs and ideas to make each activity less expensive. My family wore out several copies. Every kid in the neighborhood seemed to come running every time I got the book out. It truly is that much fun! Especially with the ages your kids are at.

    Yes, this is a long post. I can write short ones, I think.

    You need some other tools to help with your kids. One of the most powerful tools you can have is called a Parent Report. If you read my signature at the bottom of this post, you will see a link. If you click on it, it will take you to a thread about writing a Parent Report. The Parent Report is a report you write all about your daughter. All the good and the bad. You keep it with you and it keeps all of the information organized so that you can give the doctors anything they want to know at any appointment. You can give carefully selected parts of it to the school as you want them to know things. Always be careful with what you tell school. Don't write the Parent Report in one sitting, work on it in sections. I strongly recommend creating on to help with the years of doctors and therapists that will be ahead of you as you raise your daughter. She is worth it.

    If you have not had her evaluated for an IEP, I encourage you to read the archives to explore how to do that, and what needs to be in a good IEP. Be aware that you must request an IEP in writing and you must send that request by certified mail, return receipt requested. That puts into place some federal protections for your daughter, which are truly important.
     
  4. KTMom91

    KTMom91 Well-Known Member

    She sounds very much like my darling daughter. The phone calls from school started in first grade. We struggled through, with her having difficulty in keeping friends, till high school. Then the friends she found were kinda slimy, bringing an entirely new set of issues, and affecting my career plans to this day.

    I don't know if the way I handled things was the right way; I was pretty hands on and somewhat of a hardass, because her father is pretty much useless and is still being supported by his mother, and I was dead set Miss KT would NOT be a parasite. I definitely held her feet to the fire and pushed for logical consequences (if you hit your friend, they probably won't want to play with you) both at home and at school.

    I got her in karate at 6, to help with discipline and personal responsibility. She stayed with it long enough to earn a black belt, and then quit right before her freshman year to participate in marching band. I kept her busy, I know, and at the time, she kept throwing it in my face that I MADE her do this or that, but I held on by my fingernails and we did make it through.

    She was evaluated at 9, and started on Ritalin. She was ADHD with a capital H. That seemed to tone things down at school and she was better with friends and joining things; she ran cross country and played basketball and softball. Junior high brought its own set of stuff, and high school brought more, but fortunately she remained medication compliant throughout.

    Her "lack of empathy" may be simply because she's honest. I understand that. Some of us (OK, me) have a fast moving brain and a mouth that moves even faster, and she may not feel she needs to apologize for popping off at someone who said something to her that she took offense to. However, I do believe your father needs to butt out of your disciplining your children. That's where you need to step up and politely draw your line in the stand. Hopefully, you can get your own place ASAP.

    At least with us, it got a whole lot better. Eventually. After she moved 800 miles away and was in her early 20's.
     
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  5. Megs87

    Megs87 New Member



    Wow, thank you for the advice! Her father who i am no longer with, is not understanding one bit. He gets her ONE night a weekend, (sometimes 2) and since he hardly has any issues out of her in that short period he believes it all reflects back to me. I always tell him that if he kept her more than a "1 night get away" then maybe he would understand. But until i get to the bottom of her issues i don't want him to keep her more. He's really hard on her. We are not on the same page. I feel that she has every right to get upset and express herself and i try and help her cope with her emotion and think before she acts. I have always said, "its ok to be upset, we are all humans but its how we deal with things when we are upset." When he gets on to her she ofcourse will cry and he gets on to her more for crying. Like she litterally gets in trouble for crying. Like she can just stop crying. I hate it and i have actually taken her home with me when i witnessed it before. I told him that he's not raising a boy to make, "tough" that she is not only a girl, shes a very sensitive one at that. Her, 'my way or the highway' mentality comes from him. Thankfully her step mom takes up for her (as much as she can without belittling) when he does that and i am not around. Thanks again for your advice, i will definitly be looking into all of it.

    Megs87
     
  6. Megs87

    Megs87 New Member


    Hi, thanks for all the info! Its inspiring to know i am not alone but also would never wish this one anyone. It feels like its me and her against the world. I can only imagine how she feels.
    To answer your question, "if she likes it when i am loud?" I may have to get back to you on a more accurate answer because i am not sure. I have always said she is more comfortable in conflict than anything. I have hearing damage in both eardrums and suffer with 50/60 hearing loss. I have had a year to get used to it but feel i am still very loud. When i first got the injuries she was the only one that never got frustrated with me when i was loud and always needed someone to repeat theirself.
     
  7. Megs87

    Megs87 New Member





    I don't know if the way I handled things was the right way; I was pretty hands on and somewhat of a hardass, because her father is pretty much useless and is still being supported by his mother, and I was dead set Miss KT would NOT be a parasite. I definitely held her feet to the fire and pushed for logical consequences (if you hit your friend, they probably won't want to play with you) both at home and at school

    I completely understand you there as i stress out about this. I am currently as i already mentioned staying with my parents and worry about how it is or will effect them when they are adults. I don't mooch, and make sure i am able to pay for our cost of living and never ask my parents for any money. I think i am hardest on myself for not being on my own at age 30 like i should be.


    She sounds very much like my darling daughter. The phone calls from school started in first grade. We struggled through, with her having difficulty in keeping friends, till high school. Then the friends she found were kinda slimy, bringing an entirely new set of issues, and affecting my career plans to this day.

    Yesss!!!! Though she isnt in high school yet, she has some friends that add so much fuel to the fire. She has more toys than some of them and its obvious to an adult that some friends are using her to play with some of her things. So they come to play, knowing how she is, and are constantly tattling on her. I have forgotten how mean kids can be and shocked at how much meaner they have gotten. (My children included)

    I got her in karate at 6, to help with discipline and personal responsibility. She stayed with it long enough to earn a black belt, and then quit right before her freshman year to participate in marching band. I kept her busy, I know, and at the time, she kept throwing it in my face that I MADE her do this or that, but I held on by my fingernails and we did make it through.

    I do keep her/them busy as much as i can. At the moment we are not doing any activities that cost, but we are always doing something or going places. Especially when they are on break from school. It backfires on me though. When it comes time to settle in from the breaks she is miserable. Their brains dont cope well with boredom now. They think i should keep them entertained 24/7. This is where i hangon by fingernails. Lol

    Thanks for sharing your experience with me. I hope you all know the hope you are giving to me.
     
  8. Megs87

    Megs87 New Member

    ]
    If you have not had her evaluated for an IEP, I encourage you to read the archives to explore how to do that, and what needs to be in a good IEP. Be aware that you must request an IEP in writing and you must send that request by certified mail, return receipt requested. That puts into place some federal protections for your daughter, which are truly important.

    Is IEP the same as SBLC? where they do the interventions and give the teachers recommendations on what to do? We are currently awaiting a meeting for that.
     
  9. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    From what I can figure out on google, the SBLC is a school building level committee meeting. It is sort of equivalent to a 504, which is NOT an IEP. You want to ask for an IEP. An IEP provides MUCH stronger protections under the law.

    There is a link to a site that will help you create the letter on this site. If you click here https://www.conductdisorders.com/community/threads/recommended-special-education-resources.33738/ and then go to the Student Advocacy Center (the first link on the page that the link will take you to), it will give you choices of letters to write. Don't worry that it is an advocacy center out of Michigan. The letters will apply to any state.

    You want the Letter to Request a Special Education Evaluation link on that page. By asking for an IEP evaluation, and mailing it to the school via certified mail, return receipt requested (a very important step), you put federal timelines into place. They have a certain number of days to get the evaluation done from the date of the letter. Your daughter has the protections of an IEP while they are doing the evaluation.

    You can learn more about IEPs on www.wrightslaw..com and by reading the Special Education 101 archives of this forum (click the Parent Support Forum Archives and then the Special Education 101 Archives will show up to be clicked on) The women who moderated those forums for us for years are simply incredible. They worked with some of the most difficult school districts and they got exactly what their kids needed by learning the laws and making the schools follow them. They taught many of us to do that also.
     
  10. Megs87

    Megs87 New Member


    Thank you!!! I will start the process ASAP!
     
  11. There's a book called Love and Logic which has some good recommendations and I think there is information that would help with a loud voice.
     
  12. Mommn

    Mommn New Member

    I a