Been here before. Looking for some advice

[Elsi]

Good luck, Drew. this is tough. I will say that Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) is underdiagnosed in girls, and often presents differently than in boys. (Hence my late in life diagnosis.) I had stellar grades in school and was not a behavior problem. I was a mess socially. Especially as I approached and went through puberty. I was years behind my body in emotional and social awareness and skills. Not saying it's definitely Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) - Generalized Anxiety Disorder (GAD) and/or depression can lead to plenty of problems on their own. But I wouldn't rule it out based on her earlier evaluations without further exploration, most likely with a neuropsychiatrist specializing in Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD). Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) girls can be uniquely vulnerable during the puberty years which could explain why she went from shy to more defiant during that time period. But of course many other disorders first present during puberty as well.

Issues such as refusing to brush her teeth are concerning. Severe depression can result in an inability to perform basic acts of self care. Or sensory problems may lead someone to avoid certain things - e.g. not liking the feel of the toothbrush against the teeth or the way the toothpaste foams in the mouth. It's hard to know what is causing the issue until she's willing to explore it further with you or a psychiatrist. If it is depression or Generalized Anxiety Disorder (GAD), she may be a candidate for medications which could turn things around for her. If it is a sensory processing disorder or Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD), she'll need to work hard to find accommodations and workarounds for the issues that provoke anxiety or uncomfortable sensations. Either way, she has to be willing to put the work in with a counselor or psychiatrist. It sounds like this is really needed regardless of whether she agrees to a part time job.

The other issue that sticks out for me in your posts is the conflict with the former best friend. It sounds like there is definitely more to that story than she's told you, and I am curious as to why it was recommended in counseling that you not explore that. It sounds like something she needs to explore at some point.

I know for me, because I was behind my peers socially and often unsure of how to behave or what my place was in a social situation, I took things to heart that other more confident kids would have just blown off. I didn't know the difference between friendly teasing and hostile bullying, and tended to either be way too trusting, resulting in getting hurt, or take everything way too seriously, missing opportunities to connect and be part of the group. I definitely did not know how to navigate boys, flirting and relationships. I always felt unsure and off balance. I knew I was considered weird, and always assumed that if things were not going well with peers it was my fault. It became part of my core identity, being the girl no one wanted to sit with at lunch and no one invited to parties. Feeling that way makes entering any kind of new social situation extremely hard. She may be perseverating about past mistakes or even just perceived mistakes in an unhealthy way, without being able to move on. If she has suffered from social ostracism at school (which can be a pretty common occurrence with teen girls, and one she wouldn't necessarily tell you about) that can be hard to recover from. It gets inside you and becomes who you think you are. It's been more than 30 years since high school for me, and even now I can't think too much about those years without getting emotional.

I'm pulling for her. I want to see her find herself and get past whatever is holding her back now.

 

[Drew64]

I thought exploring the friend issue would help too. She’s been to three different therapist. She’s like a clam. But she didn’t start missing school or not wanting to go until around October sophomore year where she could of run into this person. They were good friends before all this and had the same interest like anime. I saw the parents at school one day and not one hello. After that it just got worse. Confusing for me. Her freshman year she went out for indoor track because another friend did. Then that friend quit but she stuck it out the rest of season. I do remeber her wanting to leave after her events and her sitting by herself vs with others on the team. Then she went out for spring track and took up pole vaulting of all things. That’s out of her comfort zone. I went to a few meets to watch and she hung out with people she knew and was happy. Just seems to be like a yo-yo. I Told her today to let me know what her plans for classes were Monday. It was her decision if wanted to drop all of them or just keep,art but had to do the work as well amd told her we are going to therapy on a consistent basis. Still waiting for response

 

[Smithmom]

Just my observation maybe but oppositional is a behavior, not the root if the behavior. Eg oppositional may result from forcing me sit in a row boat in a thunderstorm. My absolute terror might force me to do something outside my character. That's fear but not anxiety disorder.

I can tell you that my son was in over 20 "programs", most residential. Had a dozen formal evaluations, couple dozen therapists, etc, etc. Not once does the term Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD) or anything like it come up. Rages, can't get along with others, etc but under every rage and argument with other was some fear of contamination incident. He still won't admit it or outright define it that way even to me but that's at the bottom. I was there. I asked and got the stories from him which he would deny when I'd tell the therapist. The smarter we are the better at hiding it we are.

Yes, old evaluations matter. But they only tell what she'll admit. And that's only what she sees as true. Remember, she says there's nothing wrong with her. Not that I disagree with that. But what I see as wrong is her ability to function in our society for her chronological age. Not wrong, just not at the level that others do. I hate the word normal so refuse to use it, especially in the context of autism.

So maybe forget setting rules, forget diagnosis and get her to focus on what she, not you or anyone else, wants for her future. Then she has to make a plan to get there. Ask her to think about it and give you a written or visual definition of where she wants to be in 10 years. This is where development comes in. A 19 year old doing this is different from a 12 year old doing it. She needs to realize, as a 19 year old should, that she doesn't want to be in your house. Maybe in an apt alone. Then ask her for a plan on how she wants to get to there. But make it a very short chat. Her life, her plans.

 

[Drew64]

Good idea as well. Still didn’t know if she was going to class then decided no because of what happened to her hair which is her way out now. To be honest less stress on me if she doesent go I can go to work amd not worry about if she will go the next day. The wife won’t be happy but she caused most of this now. She does have a goal. Graphic artist or she told me a museum curstor. I need to re think a plan so she’s not just sitting around doing nothing

 

[Smithmom]

That's kinda my point. You don't need to make the plan. Her life, her plan. A 19 yr old shouldn't need Dad to make a plan for her.

I mean a specific plan for where she wants to live. A career is just a means to money to pay for where she wants to live.

Sitting around letting Dad make plans for her should not be something you allow. That's co-dependency. You may make plans for a 10 year old. But by 12 or 14 they are insistent on making their own plans. A parent will help or insist on editing the plans to include homework and things parent puts value on eg family, religion,.. But parent isn't making all the plans at 19.

 

[Elsi]

I work As a creative freelancer. The good thing about graphic arts is credentials and degrees are less important than portfolios and skills. It’s harder to break in without a degree but not impossible if you develop a good portfolio and connections. Smaller agencies often contract with freelancers or she may find one to take her under their wing and mentor her. Assuming she’s willing to put the work in to develop her portfolio and get good. I feel you’re not going the traditional degree route, you have to be good. But no one has asked me for a resume for years - it’s all about the portfolio and references.

The other good thing about graphic design is there is a ton of work and lots of levels and niches, from designing signage for Mom and pop shops in your local community to working for a big agency on national brands.

Museum curator I’d have to say...good luck with that. Very few positions that pay anything, and tons people who want them.

I think the best thing for her would be to do some art classes, build up a portfolio, and try to get an internship with a small local agency. Someone who would be willing to mentor her and show her the ropes. The right mentor could make a world of difference for her.

 

[Smithmom]

One way to get references and a portfolio if you don't have to pay the rent is volunteer work.

 

[Elsi]

One way to get references and a portfolio if you don't have to pay the rent is volunteer work.

Yep! When I was starting my business I did volunteer creative for nonprofits I believe in when I didn’t have paying customers. I built a network and a portfolio that way. I also learned Nonprofits tend to have board members with positions at for profit companies who can give you work.

 

[Drew64]

So just a quick update she officially dropped out. Part of me wanted her to stay another part did t care at this point. So I supported her decision and reiterated it was her decision. I also asked her to come up with 3 things she would do to take the place of not going like getting a tutor for math class or volunteering somewhere. Got home and she was playing on my desktop asking me where her replace laptop was. I lied. I have it but don’t want to give it to her yet. I tried to explain that there are rules that must be followed in the house as always. Lokemshe didn’t feed her cat again. She gets angry when tell her to talk lower on computer and uses that as excuse to say if had her laptop would be in her room talking. Have an appoimtm Thursday with therapist which she knows about. I really think she thinks she will just stay at home, play computer games and that’s it. Every time try and talk to her about something she just gets angry and it escalates because then I get angry.

 

[Smithmom]

Isn't that what a kid's life is.. Sitting around doing nothing? Sounds normal for a little kid. That is a kid who doesn't want any real friends. So how old is she developmentally?

Question then is how do you push a kid to develop? Don't think you can. Need to find something that she wants to do.

My story about getting severely autistic kids to interact... Get into her world. Not you exactly. Her world is computers. Get her to reach out to a digital world. She's done that in a video game. Now expand that. Is there a way to find people locally who play the same game? A video game club on campus? A job involving video games? Volunteer work with people who play video games? You've got a plus here, something she likes, it may not be a career now but expand on it.

Can you get her interested in designing video games?

Responsible teens who love their animals care for them. Kids don't whether or not they love them. So is she irresponsible, immature or something else. Eg my kid with contamination phobia wouldn't go near smelly animal food or within 20ft of animal waste. And doesn't like animals cause they have germs. But he'll never admit it. Says he just doesn't like animals and the rest of it is just disgusting. And if forced would gladly make a scene. diagnosis oppositional defiant. Sure doctor!

 

[Nature]

I've read all the post since the beginning with interest and can relate somewhat to your situation. Although at this point it's only assumed by knowledgable folks your daughter probably has Aspergers from your description of her behaviours. It could be Depression but both diagnosis are debilitating for the person affected.

I like the suggestion from Smithmom regarding designing video games. This is what my partner does and what I would have suggested to you for your daughter to explore as well. A lot of schools teach this but even my partner and his company would not seek a graduate from one of these programs. Rather, they want someone that thinks out of the box and shows up with a portfolio of his/her own. Companies seek those that are DIFFERENT as their games need to be something unique than others. If she's on the computer a lot perhaps get her interested in coding - there are many online sites which teach this. For those with Aspergers it can be a godsend although at one point she would have to approach a company with her portfolio but perhaps by then she will have a sense of accomplishment regarding her work. Anyhow this is just a thought and you may want to bring it up to see if she's possibly interested in this field.

My eldest is gifted and has Aspergers was always a confusion to me when he was growing up. He had not been diagnosed during his school years as he is now much older than your daughter and schools weren't as open to a diagnosis as they are now, but I knew he was different. I did project my own sense of what he should be doing vs what he was capable of doing . Hope that makes sense? What I mean is I often thought he was lonely and I encouraged him to go outside and make friends when he was young. I couldn't understand why school was torturous to him when he was gifted and learning came naturally to him...lots of things I didn't understand at the time. It's only when I finally allowed/accepted him to "be himself" did he finally seem much happier.

He quit school in the 11th grade and it killed me that he did so as I had been so sure with his intelligence he would have gone on to University. Again, looking back on it now he was not able to handle the crowds. Instead he got a low paying job - a car wash 2 blocks from our home. His boss loved him as he called me once and told me he had never seen an employee like him who refused to take lunch or breaks and he was worried about that. I knew by then it was because my son became stressed entering the staffroom when others were already there. He was at that job for a few years and eventually obtained another job when he felt more confident. At the time I remember feeling so frustrated - again thinking he could accomplish so much more. My son did have two close friends which he met when he was younger but most days would sit at home alone. Again, I think I was thinking he should go out and socialize but in retrospect was projecting my own thoughts onto what I thought would make him happy.

Fast forward years later and my son has accomplished much in his life. He never did return to school and never did socialize much. He did save all his paychecks and bank them other than paying me room and board he didn't have many expenses at the time as he rarely went out. In his early 20's he purchased his own bachelor suite with the money he had saved. Led a quiet life going to work and seeing 1-2 friends but mostly chatting to them by phone. He spent a long time on the computer in the evenings. I came to realize he was a success considering his challenges and as a result I changed my mindset that success is individual and it's not the same for everyone. I wish you luck Drew .

 

[Elsi]

Drew how did the therapy session go? Did she go?

 

[Tired out]

Drew, as a parent you must feel so trapped. I hope the therapist can help you to help your daughter. Due to the computer interaction it seems she must be intelligent, then yo have the college issue, I wish she would level with you about school . example--how does it make her feel? Over whelmed, anxious, is it the class expectations, the other people?
Sending prayers, hugs and good wishes your way. I hope you can find a way to help her.

 

[BusynMember]

Nature, I cant even express correctly how important and right I feel your post is about so many spectrum adults. Of course they do differ, but in general what makes them happy and fulfilled is not what makes most people feel that way. Yet in general they are wonderful.

Bravo for your awesome son. And mine.

 

[Nature]

Thank you SWOT. It took me a long time to accept my child was different and it was only in retrospect did I learn to not project my sense of success based on what he was doing. Bravo back to your awesome son!

Drew ,your daughter is still young and must find her place in the world. It's true that there is always the danger that her isolation may be made worse the longer she chooses to do that. Yet, it may be the very thing she needs at the moment to bring her comfort. It's hard to say what is the right answer. As frustrating as it is your daughter must come to the realization (and you and your wife) that it's her walk, her path and her life.

I wish we had a crystal ball to be able to foresee the future as I know you are constantly questioning what is the right thing to do. Your daughter may have the mindset of a younger person and at this time in her life the stress of adult decisions may be too much for her. I think as parents there are times we grieve that our children are different than others - we want so much for the best of them. I will be thinking of your family.

 

[Drew64]

The therapy session went ok I guess. She stayed in for full hour. The therapist suggested putting a lock on bathroom door so she could have a “safe place” to go if gets in argument with mom. I took them off door because she would lock herself in when younger or when mad. I think my daughter brought up asking her old art teacher at her high school if she needed help with class. She did this last year and even ran the class once according to her teacher. Right now still unbearable at times. Constant cursing when online. I go into to tell her to calm down she gets angry and tells me to leave her room and stop loste to her conversation which is hard because she is so loud. I tell her I don’t care if she plays but she’s loud. I’ve told her with headsets on she can’t hear how loud she is. Still avoiding things. Uses the excuse I just started a game when asked to go for ice cream yesterday and I had to do some stuff around house first. I told her next week she needs to figure out what she’s doing with herself now. Don’t care about how her hair looks. It’s fine and will grow fast. She has multiple options. Call a couple of graphic design companies in our town and ask if can volunteer or do apprenticeship. We have an art school the town over she can ask if need help or she can ask her high school art teacher if needs help. I asked her about coding games. Her answer I know that already.

 

[Smithmom]

She stayed is great. Will she go again?

If she wants to help out at HS great! Its volunteer work within her comfort zone. Grab it! Tell you you'll provide transport. Ask her to talk to teacher. Ask her what you can do to help. But she has relationship with teacher and adult child needs to have own relationship.

Let her do that a couple of times a week for a month. See how it goes. If well then expand on it. But let her lead the way.

 

[Smithmom]

So her volume is an issue. Is there a place where she go where it wouldn't be an issue? What would you do if she were taking up a musical instrument? Garage? Basement? Try to change her setting as she's not going to change her volume because you ask. Yes, its rude of her. But pick your battles. I suggest that this isn't your important issue now.

I offer no excuse for her refusal to be considerate and courteous. But you can't raise your own blood pressure about it. Ignore it and focus on the more important issue.

Have you thought about trying temporary noise buffers eg blankets hanging on her door and walls?

 

[Drew64]

We live in a condo which we’ve kind of out grown but have not looked around at bigger place. Just happens her room is downstairs near living room. Yes I would not have a problem having help out at her old school. She could do computers and art as two best classes and had helped out with both. She just needs to make the call or email

 

[Smithmom]

Is she getting SSI? If not, thought about applying? Not just for the cash and Medicaid but for the potential services, housing, job programs, etc.

Second thought is that, heaven forbid, she needs SSI down the road she's made a claim before age 21 so she would get SSDI based on your social security record.

SSI and SSDI look at ability to function in an age appropriate way, not a diagnosis. You've made a case that she does not function like a 19 year old and that this has been going on for years. These programs would then pay a minimal amount of monthly support. But once approved other programs eg through the state or charities might be available. Obviously she wants none of this. Its not unusual for a teen to refuse to participate in the SSI evaluation process. My oldest sat with a hoodie pulled over his head and refused to say a word through his entire interview. They know what oppositional behavior looks like. But it also may be something to jolt her into the reality that after 18 you no longer legally have to support her. So you tell her that since she refuses to support herself (and financially contribute to the house) that you are forced to look for cash to support her elsewhere.

Also, in my state anyway, vocational rehab provides some services. That is, job training, resume building, job placement. Same with unemployment office obviously. But voc rehab deals with spec needs and may have more one on one services. In this process she will need to participate. But her refusal to participate another point for SSI app.