Cognitive issues

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by Jody, Jun 18, 2010.

  1. Jody

    Jody Active Member

    difficult child was completely out of control this last week. SASS worker says she has definate issues with being narcissitic and also needs some cognitive behavior therapy but that there is not really anyone in our aree of Illinois that provides that type of service. I have been reading but don;t know too much about cognitive issues, can anyone explain it to me a little bit.
  2. gcvmom

    gcvmom Here we go again!

    Not sure exactly, but could she mean that difficult child would benefit from therapy that helps her recognize her problem behaviors, their effect on others, and teaches her what to do to change those behaviors? That's my understanding of cognitive behavior therapy.
  3. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    She means cognitive behavioral therapy and it's everywhere. Are you near Chicago or in the burbs? It's there. CBT is explaining in the cheap book (or get it at the library) Feeling Good by Dr. David Burns.
    I'd be verrrrrrry leery of anyone who diagnosed an 11 year old with Narcicistic personality disorder. That's WAY too young. Do you like the help you're getting for her?
  4. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    I agree that your difficult child is WAY too young for the narcissistic personality disorder diagnosis. Aren't kids supposed to be rather narcissistic? I thought that it was one of the ways to describe the preteen years, at least!!
  5. Jody

    Jody Active Member

    They won't diagnose her with it, but it is very noticeable that there are some issues there. I have tried to redirect her when she does these things, but she just can't let it go. ME, ME, ME to an extreme. I am in Springfield area, and am calling several places here and haven't found one that does it yet. I am waiting on her regular therapist to give me a call. I don't know but definately wonder if the abilify isn't making her a little paranoid, anxious. I can't tell if she is having paranoia issues or if it's just worry that she is having problems with. She came up to me the other day and she said, Mom, (terror stricken face) I opened my can with the can opener but I couldn't get it opened so I used a knife, do you think some of the metal could have gotten into my stomach and is cutting me. (She has a stomach ache). I said well don't ever use a knife and try to go to the bathroom, it sure isn't metal in your stomach. At night when she was praying she was talking about the metal in her stomach and to please let it come out without cutting her, if she had any in her. I try to take the dog out for a walk and she runs over everytime and has to check and recheck his collar to make sure that I have it on tight enough so he won't get hit my a car. This is hard. I just can't tell what's really going on with her. I know that she a lot of the times, doesn't hear what I am saying. I know she really hears it but it must be not sounding right to her. I've tried to reword things to make it easier for her, but still, lot's of confusion and then she'll say I didn't say it, or tell me things that I said that I didn't say it. Is it lying or manipulation, or does she really believe what she says. It's exhausting just trying to figure it out. I can say to her things very slowly and say okay, now are we together on this, and repeat what I have said and have her repeat it back to me and yet later on she will tell me it was said a different way. Too busy to write absilutely everything down and have her sign it.
  6. nvts

    nvts Active Member

    Hey Jodie! Sounds like your house is as much of a barrel of laughs as mine is. Have you checked on Aspergers Syndrome for her? She sounds like the perfect split between difficult child 1 and 3 in this place (you can imagine the fun that WE have around here! It could explain a lot...difficult child 1 had the exact same diagnosis as yours.

    Just a thought (of which I have very few that make much sense - lol!)!

  7. Jody

    Jody Active Member


    When I read the symptoms of Asperpergers she seems like an almost perfect fit. I can check like 8 of the 10 things off that she does/has. I mention it to her doctors office and they shrug it off because a lot of them are just blamed on social skills deficits because of ODD and ADHD. How do you get a diagnosis of Aspergers? How do they treat Aspergers differently from ODD/ADHD? Thank you for helping me to understand this a little better.

  8. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Jody, I personally think that ODD and ADHD are just adjectives. They occur because of an underlying disorder.
    If your daughter is Aspie, she could be using only part of her brain ... IOW, part of her brain has matured, and other parts haven't. It takes yrs for it all to even out, if they ever do. In the meantime, her frontal lobes are excited with-an overload of excess electrical activity, and she is overstimulated by many things. That could be where the anxiety is coming from.
    If the Adderal and Wellbutrin are working, fine, but you may want to explore other avenues.

    If she's an Aspie, you will want to break things into littler steps. You will want to repeat things a few more times. You may want to hold your breath and count to ten when she comes up with-some ridiculous idea ... again ... because in reality, she can't help it. You may want to come up with-alternatives for calming behaviors that are not destructive or time wasting, say, if she repeats herself, if she checks doorlocks repeatedly, if she checks the dog's collar. "Let's take off the collar in the hallway where the dog is safe and let's see how the collar is put together and if we need to buy another one." (There are, in face, non-slip collars but I'm not sure they're worth it.) "Okay, now that we've checked the collar, let's make sure that it's not too tight. We'll slip one or two fingers between the collar and the dog's neck and that will show that it's comfy. If it's too loose, it will come off. If it's too tight, it will be uncomfortable."
    Then you can practice obedience with-the dog, by using the collar and leash and practicing "Stay" or "Sit" or "Come," and letting the leash drag behind the dog. You do this in a fenced-in area. That is the perfect backup plan for any dog and owner who are outdoors.

    In order for cognitive therapy to work, you will have to get her to sit still long enough to have a conversation with-her, and a verbal exchange. It is also important to use an authority figure, as most of our kids blow us off. I have often pd $100 for a therapist to tell my difficult child the exact same thing I have said, but it's worth the $ because he listens! :whiteflag:
    Cognitive therapy is pretty much what it sounds like. It is basic and instructional,but it is a lot of hard work.
    It helps keep you from letting your mind run away with-what-ifs, or catastrophizing.
    Here is an example: You are terrified of flying, but you are looking forward your upcoming, totally paid vacation to Tahiti. You are all packed, the kids are packed. You are lying in bed, unable to sleep, because you keep imagining that you are on the plane, sitting in a window seat, the plane lurches, you grab the armrest, and the plane plummets. Over and over again. You cannot sleep.
    Cognitive therapy would teach you to remind yourself that you are, in fact, at home, in your nice, warm, safe bed. Your family is asleep in their own beds. Your bags are packed. If you go to sleep and you awaken and still feel like you cannot fly, you cancel the flight. Better yet, you consider that the odds of crashing in a plane are minimal (especially compared to car crashes, which only seem safer because you're on the ground) and that your trip will be safe, uneventful, and fun.
    Over and over, you remind yourself that you are at home, in your own bed, snuggled with-your own pillow, until you fall asleep.

    Another example: Your husband suggests you two go to a movie. You agree and are very excited. You begin to read off the movies that are playing. After listening a while, and saying he doesn't like each of the movies, husband says, "I don't really want to go to a movie after all. I'll just stay home."
    You think, "He doesn't love me! We were going to a movie and now we're not doing ANYTHING together! I thought he wanted to be with me! He's a jerk and I'm going to divorce him."
    Cognitive therapy would teach you that your husband, in fact, merely stated that he wanted to see a movie and that nothing out there was interesting. He never, ever said he didn't love you. Yes, he could have said, "What can we do instead?" but if you cried on his shoulder and said he didn't love you, he wouldn't know what you are talking about.
    Stop and assess the situation. What were the words that were said? Were they said calmly? Flippantly? In the heat of the moment? Was your husband stabbing a finger in your chest and blaming you for all the crummy movies that come out of Hollywood? Was he complaining that you're lousy in bed, a lousy cook, and a lousier gardener?

    Okay, now that you've finished going hysterical at my stupid examples, quit laughing and admit you kind of get the idea ...
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2010
  9. Jody

    Jody Active Member

    You are nuts, lol, I get it and I understand it a lot better with the examples. In the 2nd example how do you get them to realize that it isn't the way they see it. This is the one that happens most oftern with difficult child, is there a better way to redirect her to logical thinking? Or is this where the 100.00 for the therapist comes in?
  10. Jody

    Jody Active Member


    I reread your reply. After I go thru all that with the dog collar and the reassurring ny showing her it's tight will I have to go thru that exhausting routine again and again. The problem is when I do that she doesn't ever seem to get it for the next time.
  11. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Jody, ask her to show YOU the next time. Maybe that would work. "We're going outside with-Snoopy, but we're only going after you show me how the collar and leash work, and that the collar is not too tight or too loose."

    And yes, a good therapist helps.

    Try a Google search for "cognitive therapists Chicago (Peoria, etc)" and see what you come up with. I can't believe that the SASS wkr out-of-hand dismissed the idea of any therapists of that type in your area. I'd be willing to drive an hr to go to a good one ... you can't be that far out in the boonies ...
  12. Jody

    Jody Active Member

    I'm not in the boonies. I live in Springfield, Illinois. I guess I need to search further into myself to see if I have what it takes to have that kind of patience and to work with her like this. I think if I talked to her like that all the time about everything that she would do better, but my goodness it seems like so much more work. I hope that didn't sound lazy, but I do do some of those things for her, but all the time it's just hard. It seems like she ought to be able to get it on her own once in awhile. I copied a lot of stuff about Aspergers and I am going to read about it tonight. Thank you. The SASS worker said there really wasn't anyone around that could provide that kinds of training. I wonder why if works so well.
  13. gcvmom

    gcvmom Here we go again!

    Wow, she does have a lot of anxiety... I hope you can find a good therapist. Does the psychiatrist know about the paranoia?
  14. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    so much more work. I hope that didn't sound lazy, but I do do some of those things for her, but all the time it's just hard. It seems like she ought to be able to get it on her own once in awhile.

    I know the feeling.
    But it's not going to happen. We Warrior Moms just have to s*ck it up. :(
  15. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Jody, I found this through a quick search. Don't know if you're interested, but I didn't spend more than 2 min. looking ... :D
  16. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Hi. I lived most of my life in Illinois. Are you near St. Louis? Being a big city, they have tons of resources.

    If you want to see if your daughter has Aspergers and get her the appropriate help in school, I suggest a neuropsychologist evaluation rather than therapy or a Psychiatrist. Aspies are very fearful and worry about things way before they happen. They are also often misunderstood. I'd do the neuropsychologist thing before I did anything else. Although Springfield isn't a huge city, it's not that small either. You should be able to find a neuropsychologist. Are you near a university hospital? I find those are the best. If necessary, you could make a day trip to Chicago. They have immense resources for diagnosing our kids. The label is important because it opens many doors. I think ODD/ADHD is a throwaway is one that kids get the doctors really don't know, but are too proud to say, "I don't know." :tongue: