Curiousity Bit Me on the Backside........

[Hound dog]

Let me start by saying, this is really not about MY difficult children. (thank heaven above)

First let me just tell you something and get your opinions because while I've seen just about everything as far as human behavior goes.........this one has my mouth hanging open. You all know that I come from a family of difficult children and there are members who have some serious mental illness going on. Well........I can honestly say that someone even has Stormy topped.

Ok. Say you know a 25 yr old girl very well. So well that you know the forums she goes to online and of her blogs, even though she's using a false identity because she told you that is who she was. by the way she's been at this for several years, probably since around age 16-17. There is no reason to believe this girls sexual interest is anything other than hetero.

In her blog profile she claims an elaborate name. She claims to be a homosexual male, "married" to two other males. The girl stands at least 6 feet in her stocking feet. (she's always been exceptionally tall for her age, at 6 months she was as tall as a 2 yr old) yet in her profile she claims to be short and small of stature. She claims ethnicity that she is not (seriously over the top with this one, I don't think she left many out and 90 percent are false) She claims to speak nearly as many languages. ( she doesn't, except perhaps some street Spanish due to where she lives) She claims to be a profound artist. (honestly, I'm not even sure the work is hers.....it has a vague familiarity to it but I'm not much into that type of "art") But I've never heard of anyone speak of her talent. And so we have a complicated fantasy reality revolving around these 2 so called "husbands" and their escapades, her art.......yadda yadda yadda.

The only true thing I found that she posted was her birthdate, that she has a niece, and that she recently joined the Air Force and is due to show up at basic training in the near future. And trust me, this is some really involved stuff.

This is my niece I'm talking about. Sis in texas' youngest daughter H. Travis and her spent a lot of time together one summer and have stayed in fairly close touch for years since. Travis is the one who comes to me with the information because he is disturbed by it. When he first came to me when they were still in HS I figured her passing herself off as a guy was a way to keep the pervs that lurk in such places at bay. Although, it did bug me at the times he kept bringing it up. But please, at that stage I had my own fish to fry with Nichole. But if Travis is disturbed enough by her posts in the various forums and blogs she has.......well, that alone is a huge red flag. He normally doesn't pick up on that sort of thing too well.

H has had issues as a child, although nothing too major, mostly anxiety. As a teen she basically became antisocial, except for her instant friendship with Travis (same interests), which was encouraged due to her normal antisocial behaviors. She'd camp out in her room, and getting her to come out to eat was a war......school was WWIII. I know in the middle of Nichole going through her nose dive sis called me with some serious concerns. I, of course, told her H needed an evaluation and to be under a doctor's care. She said she was and had a diagnosis of borderline.....but she didn't feel the diagnosis fit. Now a year later I approached the subject with her and sis decided H was magically cured because she went to church.......and yes, like I said, I have a family of weird folks. Sis is the queen of stick your head in the sand long enough maybe it will all go away. Due to my mom, my aunt, and our maternal grandfather........this mental stuff scares the daylights out of her. (I don't think I need to mention all the sibs and cousins too) I tried to talk sense to her, but she was not receptive and we've never spoke about it since. And that was oh about 4 -6 years ago maybe.

in my opinion, having read a rather broad sample of her posts, I think this goes beyond borderline. This is an intricate alternate reality she has created......I think what is so disturbing is the way she writes it is as if she truly believes it is real. Now I realize that is the point, to make those who read it think she's being upfront and honest.......but still, I can look at it as someone who writes for entertainment and spot her slip ups. They are small enough someone who didn't know her probably would miss, but I'm sure some wonder.

The truth is this is a 25 yr old girl who is a loner, antisocial, riddled with anxiety who still lives in her bedroom 24/7 (sis did admit this much in recent phone calls). When Mom told me of her signing up with the Air Force, I immediately knew it was sis kicking her out of the nest. It's what sis's eldest did when she finally got fed up enough to give him a deadline to get out. Because there is no way I believe that my niece with her issues suddenly got a wild hair to go join up on her own. She's never even had a job. This is a way to survive once Mom tosses her out, period, just as it was for her brother. (who happens to be doing fine now, he has some odd issues of his own but is mostly easy child)

I see it as a really bad idea. I just can not believe that someone who passes themselves off as a homosexual male in a relationship (marriage) with 2 other males with much imagined drama......is mentally stable. The girl has never even been on a date because she refuses to leave the house except under force.

I'm not really sure what to do with the information either. Sis doesn't do online. Her husband does......but honestly I think he would be impossible to convince due to the alias that this is his little girl doing this. Know what I mean?? And H is an adult so there wouldn't be really anything they can do about it unless she was willing to attempt treatment again.

Any thoughts? I will say I'm not thinking of going to sis with this as I know even if I could find a way for her to access it she wouldn't be receptive. But I'd like some educated insights as to what you think is going on with her. I realize borderlines do attention seeking behavior.....but I think this is a bit extreme for a borderline.

 

[susiestar]

There is something going on, something seriously wrong. I highly doubt the air force is going to actually take her. IF she gets to basic, she is going to decompensate and totally break down very fast. It really sounds like some recruiter is playing fast and loose - and this is VERY common with military recruiters. I know quite a few people who were 'accepted' and when they showed up to basic they were sent home iwth reactions like "WTH was the recruiter thinking? no way you are medically cleared to enlist!"

i really hope your sister is prepared for this because it sounds like her daughter will then watn to return to her room for the rest of her life. What is going on in a parent that you allow your cihld to do that until age 25? My kid would need to show some heavy duty mental illness for that to happen, and be in treatment. It doesn't seem healthy for the daughter to have lived that way for so long.

Part of me wonders about dissociative identity disorder? That much isolation, esp with other mental health disorders in the family, could create some strange and severe problems. She also could be transgender. Given the distance between the family and not dating, it would be strange if you actually did know that she was totally hetero. She might seem that way because she thinks she should. Or not, but maybe her online fantasy life is what she really wants. If so, it sure sounds liek she totally hates and loathes herself, which is sad and she needs real help for. Do her parents truly not see how sick she is? How can they miss how strange and nonfunctional it is to never leave the bedroom for so many years with-o brute force making it happen?

I really hope that whatever is going on, the girl gets some help soon. Hopefully the air force will get help rather than just tossing her out. Doubtful, but I can hope. Of course if she goes off the deep end, they may just take her to a psychiatric hospital, which would not be bad from the sound of it. How will your sister react if the AF tosses her daughter out?

 

[buddy]

She does sound like she has a lot of problems. The one thing I wonder (I am not at all educated in this) is if the online thing is a big deal, I have heard of people playing fantasy games like that. I suppose it is interesting to them or fun to do that? I think it is odd and strange (and if they get involved with people in any way, even mean) but I can see how people could do it. But for her the big picture is what is troubling. Too bad your sister is not able to deal with it appropriately.
What does Travis do, does he just say things to you or do you think he is going to say anything to his cousin? That would be disturbing to me too if it was my niece.

 

[keista]

It sounds a lot like what my FH did, probably still does. However FH always presented himself as the person he wanted to be. At least that's the way it appeared to me. So, I"m tending to agree with Suzie here and say that, at the very least, she's living out some serious fantasies.

The big problem is, that the longer this type of charade is allowed to go on, the longer it becomes ingrained in a person's psyche. I'd venture to guess that she could be diagnosed as delusional at this point. She may be able to discern the fact that she is not TRULY this short homosexual, but the second she goes online, I"ll bet she can't tell you that she's a very tall hetero female either.

It's hard to describe and even harder to understand. I can't tell you how many arguments I had with FH and how many times I had to calm him down when someone was "calling him" on something he posted. He would get so insulted and upset that they weren't believing him. He just wasn't making the connection that they shouldn't believe him because what he was saying wasn't, in fact, true.

 

[DaisyFace]

Honestly - I'm not sure how "disturbing" it is.

The thing about the internet is that the anonymity DOES allow you to create alter-egos for yourself....and plenty of people do it for a variety of reasons. I'm not sure that it is automtically cause for concern or a red flag for a serious mental disorder.

Now - IF she begins to bring this alter-ego out into the real world...or if the alter-ego is attempting to contact friends and family...I think THAT is a sign that she is over the line. Keeping the alter-ego confined to the internet seems within normal limits (at the edge of normal, certainly - but still withing normal limits).

 

[keista]

DF, I'd agree but this girl is refusing to participate in the real world. She only leaves her room by force. That alone equals a problem.

 

[Hound dog]

Keista, that aspect is why this bothers me so much, the issues she has in the real world coupled with what she has constructed for herself online.

Sis is the other easy child of the family. She's the carbon copy of my mom minus the schizo diagnosis with the need to have the "perfect" family. She's not as severe in that as my mom is by far, but the tendency to do that is still pretty strong. I nearly fell out of my chair when she told me she actually took H to see a psychiatrist and therapist. That by itself tells me H's behavior is pretty severe at home, it would have had to have been for sis to consider that step.

It's possible H is transgender. I suppose it's possible she's gay. But I've heard nothing (nor saw anything in behavior) over the years to indicate that is the case. Sis' eldest is gay. He has not "come out" to the family, at least not extended family........but it has been rather obvious since he was 16. There are those it would bother, but mostly.....it doesn't really matter.

H does have an extremely low self image and has hated herself since she was young. Her height has been a major issue since infancy. It's hard to make friends when they believe you to be too old to play. It didn't help that she's an Army brat and moved fairly often. Sis tries to convince me H is terribly shy, but I don't see it. She was too much In Your Face as a child and attention seeking to be "shy". She has cut, hallucinated and heard voices. (no drugs/alcohol) From what sis told me, she sounded like a more extreme version of Nichole during her bad times. (and Nichole was pretty severe) I'm not saying the borderline is inaccurate. I'm saying I don't believe it's the only thing going on.

I know there are those who reinvent themselves online. I've run into many of them in forums over the years. It's a game and a form of entertainment, although I don't understand it myself. Travis has tried to call her on it.....I can't recall if he did it in actual forums or in private......but she blew him off. Shoot, I'm tempted to call her on it and do a post telling her "followers" exactly like it is and shatter her little fantasy bubble. But if it's just a complicated game to her she'd just create a new user name and start over..........and if it's not a game, that wouldn't necessarily be a good idea.

 

[keista]

and if it's not a game, that wouldn't necessarily be a good idea.

Correct. It could be devastating.

Transgendered could definitely be a possibility. Actually makes more sense than being gay. One of FH's sons is transgendered. He said he always felt different - 'wrong' in some way. I was only in the loop when he first was coming out. I did not get to learn how he finally identified himself. The interesting thing is that he as a male was not gay (he did experiment a bit), but he was interested in women and wanted to become a woman who was interested in women. So, he wanted to become a female to become gay. Confused yet?

Anyway, considering the rest of H's history, I don't think you have to worry about the army taking her. UNLESS she can completely snow over their evaluations. But I think that's kinda tough to do.

 

[susiestar]

If she functioned relatively normally in the real world, I would just chalk this up to fantasy. Given having to be forced out of her room, and whatever extreme issuees that got her mom to take her to a psychiatrist and therapist, and the other dysfunctional things going on, this seems serious.

It is easy to set up a fake persona (isn't this the reason for the term 'troll'?) but it is the belief in it that is worrisome. Combined iwth a past including hallucinations and a family hx of schizophrenia and other very serious mental health problems, this seems very very serious to me. I really hope that the AF is able to identify these issues and can give her mom some idea of the magnitude of the problems. Otherwise, when she is forced to leave the AF I think seh will just totally not function and fall apart. I really pray she doesn't just disintegrate and end up in jail for some real problem that came out as violence.

Many people who are transgender change genders to 'become' homosexual. Or that is how it seems to those of us who are not in that situation. Transgender and homo/heterosexual are very different things. Being transgender means you truly feel as though you are trapped in the other gender's body. Stop and think about having your personality and feelings and sexual desires in the body of the opposite gender. It isn't easy, but can you imagine how wrong everything about yourself and your body would feel? Imagine spending your life feeling like you are trapped in some weird version of Freaky Friday? Being hetero or homosexual is about your sexual desires. It is due mostly to a difference in your brain that you have no control over. It is very possible to have whatever causes you to be transgender and the changes that cause you to be homosexual at the same time. I don't know if they are in the same area of the brain or not, but it sort of seems like they would be, at least partly. So if you have changes in one part of the brain that are close to or the same part as the part that causes the other issue, it would be fairly logical to have both differences in the same brain. At least it seems logical to me given what I know about brain function and changes and the science behind this stuff.

 

[Star*]

I'm going to go out on a long limb here - but I'm a really bizarre thinker at times. And having been around multiple gays and transgender people (thank you BW and Salvation Army) I'm going to throw this out for consideration bcause - I asked a LOT of questions with the TG community - my questions to them never came off as offensive or intrusive and I was curious (not in that way) but I wanted to understand what I could and not judge therefore hopefully bridge a gap if it came up. Trust me TG people are VERY outspoken once they get out in the world or with other TG peeps.

So my thought is - MAYBE your sister KNOWS what's going on with her daughter. I know you said she's an ostrich - but she also has a gigantic daughter in her room all the time who doesn't date and probably wears "butch" attire. I'm sure at some point someone, somewhere who was ignorant has made comments and it's raised questions with someone in your sisters family and that's just shut your niece in all the more. So someone came up with the idea that the ARMY would get her out of the house. And now with the don't ask don't tell law in effect? Where else would be a better place for someone who is either TG or a lesbian to meet someone and "come out" as it were and possibly gain confidence, a sense of belonging - they do teach you how to be part of the team in the Army, a sense of pride, and all the other GOOD elements that anyone of any gender, race, credo, religion learns from Army life. Someone may have figured the Army may bring her out of her shell - not just a Gay orTG shell - or even a Bi - shell - but just a shell - and give her a good boost of confidence. And no one is sure she's even gay. Suspect - okay - but maybe she'll get in the army - find out she's not the giant she thinks she is - and find a man somewhere that trips her fancy. Could go the other way too - maybe she finds a nice woman that does the same thing and loves her too. Hard to tell......not my call.

What I'm saying in general is - She'll be getting OUT of the house, INTO a world that is going to teach her something - GIVE her money for college.....a career - and she'll be learning, and going and doing. IF she's mentally incompetent? The Army will soon figure that out - and she'll be sent back home, and she'll ALSO probably be able to apply for SSDI - and that will give her an income - (right?) so at the least she could help for rent and utilities.

As far as her little alternate fantasy I'm a man, married to two men? Pft.....whatever. At least she's not an axe murderer .......Sorry she's roll playing, and well - while it's in some peoples eyes - perverted, at least she's not a gigilo - she's "married' and she's obviously - hot - she's got 2 husbands. As far as the bragging? Well if Travis really wanted to wreck the fantasy - he could sign on as a gay man, and call her out on it all I suppose but what's the sense?