Discussion in 'Parent Emeritus' started by mom_to_3, Jun 4, 2008.

  1. mom_to_3

    mom_to_3 Active Member

    I think my difficult child has delusions for real. I am beginning to wonder if she has Schizophrenia or Schizoaffective Disorder. Her biological father has schizophrenia. At one time in her teen years a psychiatrist thought maybe she looked like she could be schizophrenic and diagnosed her with "thought disorder". In my opinion, she doesn't seem to fit in any one diagnosis, but I am pretty certain that delusions fit her.

    My mother is very ill, in ICU right now. My difficult child came up to the hospital, I was not there at the time and started telling about how she is a girl scout leader and a dance teacher of younger girls. Now, I am not that close or involved in her life to know what she does minute to minute, but I would almost bet money that this is not fact. Why would someone feel the need to say that in an ICU room? She believes in the paranormal and says she has a paranormal investigation business. She says things that are way out of line. She wanted to talk to me about her son coming to live with me. I said no! My mother is very sick, I don't want to deal with or talk about that now. She kept pushing and telling me how SHE had a choice where he went and how she needed to get legal documentation to give to the case worker. This is not accurate. She has a sense of self importance. She asked for them to get the doctor so that she could talk to him, as if! She even asked the nurse that was actually caring for my mother AT THAT TIME to move so that she could say goodbye to her grandmother. Now who does that??? That I know of, I seem to be her biggest enemy. At times that is. Yesterday in the hospital, she was nice and hugged me. In that CPS meeting, she shot daggers at me and spoke harshly. She reminded me that I was not going to do to her son what I did to her! When I asked what that was she said pills and psychiatrists!

    If you remember a couple of weeks ago, I wrote about how I went to speak with her and talked to her about my feelings about how she has conducted her life. She was so very angry at me. Disagreed vehemently that what I was saying was not true. It was different than what a normal denial sounds like. CPS is confused and aware that she is not accepting responsibility for her actions. Other people see that something is not right. I've always believed and known she had mental health problems, I've just not been able to put my finger on it exactly. I still can't, but I think it's becoming clearer to me. It's definitely something with delusions for sure.

    Can anyone make sense of this and how in the world can I get her help? She won't hear it from me at all. She is supposed to have a psychological evaluation for CPS. I know that she will not share the results with me and I wonder if they will even give HER the results. My difficult child doesn't see a problem with herself, so is not motivated to change or get help for herself. Any clues from the things I have told you all?
  2. witzend

    witzend Well-Known Member

    Well, I'm no expert, but it sounds like at least big lies to make herself look better, if not denial, or delusions. I bet CPS is confused! She is most certainly not a reliable source of information.

    I guess I kind of lost track of what is happening with your grandson. The last I remember is that the foster home said that they wouldn't keep him and wanted to seperate him and his sibling. Where is he now?

    Honestly, is she doing drugs? There's something wrong here.
  3. mom_to_3

    mom_to_3 Active Member

    No, no drugs! Believe me when I say she has no trouble telling me things. She has experimented but said she didn't like them. I actually believe that.

    They are big lies to us, but she speaks them as truths and appears to believe this stuff. It doesn't make sense to me either.

    My grandson is still in foster care with the same foster mother that said he had to leave. He was staying until his psychological evaluation, which is tomorrow. The case worker has not contacted me again for a move in date and I haven't been able to call him because my mother is ill and I've be pretty busy looking after her and my dad. My difficult child said yesterday something about the 13th. I have no clue if that is accurate or not.
  4. Star*

    Star* call 911

    M23 -

    I'm so sorry this is happening to you during such a rough time with your Mom. Please know you and your family are always in my thoughts and prayers.

    As a friend on the outside looking in I have to ask you - are you SURE you are ready to deal with the current situation of your difficult child daughter, AND another younger difficult child in your grandson? That's a very lot to ask of one person who isn't 20 and is looking very soon at living her life with her husband to go and do as she pleases. I hope this doesn't make you mad, but I just wonder if all this drama isn't a sign of what is going to happen if you adopt your grandson and take him out of foster care where he's currently not privy to all the chaos?

    I think at this point if you get involved again in knowing about your daughter you become less detached. But on the other side of the coin - if you don't help her - who will? Certainly not the world. And lastly you have to ask yourself HOW far do you want to get involved in all of this? She's your daughter - you know her. Is she GOING to allow you to step in and suggest or help?

    You really are between the hardest place and a rock and i'm so sorry. It breaks my heart to see a parent so willing to reach out and help a child that is so disabled she's unable to recognize it. Maybe you could have her Baker acted into a psychiatric. hospital and appointed her guardian. Then again if you would have to do something like that are you really going to be any better off with her?

    Dillusions are not just part of schizophrenia or schizo affective disorder. The fact that her biodad was schizophrenic could genetically be a strike, but without a test how are you ever going to know? And the test CPS does certainly arent' going to give you the answers - unless MAYBE you told them that since you were going to adopt her child - you really wanted to know about HER mental background for HIS sake in helping get a good start in diagnosis for him and his apparent disorders. Maybe that would work.????

    I dunno - huge hugs. Sending peace of mind and well wishes for your Mom's health.

  5. witzend

    witzend Well-Known Member

    {{{{{{{{Big hugs}}}}}}}}

    You do what you have to in order to take care of yourself and your mother first. You will never forgive yourself if difficult child puts you in a position to neglect your mom when she is so ill.

    I think that as far as the tall tales go, you seem to be saying that she really believes them? If so, and there aren't any outside influences like drugs or alcohol, then it does appear that she is delusional. What does your gut tell you? I think that maybe deep down inside you know what the answer is. I know you can't make a diagnosis, but I think you probably should tell CPS about it. It just now occured to me that it might be Narcissism.

    Narcissistic Personality Disorder

    A pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, and lack of empathy.

    1. An exaggerated sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)

    2. Preoccupation with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love

    3. Believes he is "special" and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)

    4. Requires excessive admiration

    5. Has a sense of entitlement

    6. Selfishly takes advantage of others to achieve his own ends

    7. Lacks empathy

    8. Is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him

    9. Shows arrogant, haughty, patronizing, or contemptuous behaviors or attitudesHere's a link to a good description of the diagnostic criteria and current thinking on treatment. When you get a chance, maybe you can look at it and see if it seems to fit?

    I forget - are they making arrangements for her to have supervised visits with you not being the supervisor? I can tell that you are just about on your last nerve, and I worry about the added stress of visits with her and her "I'm his mom! I get to make all of the decisions!" attitude will do to you. If you get respite, can that be the time he sees his mom? That way there is an independent witness as to her behaviors.

    My best wishes for your mom, and for you. I know this is a very difficult time. I'm sorry that your daughter is unable to pull it together.
  6. mom_to_3

    mom_to_3 Active Member

    Thanks for the good thoughts. My mother is much better today they removed the breathing tubes. She is still in ICU, but looks soooo much better and is alert and aware and sitting up. She's making progress!

    Witz, I would not allow my difficult child to interfere with me being with my mother at any time, never mind right now.

    Star, my difficult child is divorced from her son's father. She's on her own.

    I don't know what to think. I really don't think drugs, I think it's just the way my difficult child is! I don't think you could baker act someone that was not a threat to themselves or others. She's not making good choices for herself, but they are not life threatening nor has she threatened anyone else that I know of.

    I don't think you can make anyone get mental health care if they don't want it. And obviously, she hasn't wanted it.

    I think it odd too that CPS has not contacted me at least to give me a date. I told the caseworker that I would like to speak to the foster mother AND that I would like to have input into my grandsons psychiatric evaluation. I have heard nothing from him. He seemed like a decent guy, so I am going to remain positive and believe that he has been busy until I find otherwise. I did call him today and left a message for him to call me back. We'll see.
  7. witzend

    witzend Well-Known Member

    I wish I could figure out that "multi-quote" thing...

    I'm glad to hear that your mom is feeling better. I hope that she will be out of the hospital and on the mend soon.

    I'm pretty sure that she can't be Baker Acted (?sp) either. She's being awful, for sure. But at present she doesn't seem to be a danger to herself or her son. I do wonder if they are thinking of terminating her parental rights. Have they said anything to you about that?

    Hopefully you will get a chance to contact someone at CPS to get the straight poop on what to expect and when. They get very busy, and often just work at putting out fires rather than looking into the long term. Sometimes you have to keep rattling their cages.
  8. Star*

    Star* call 911

    I'm not for lying - but in this case I'd lie my butt off and tell someone she had threatened to harm herself. Once In I would see if they could get her evaluated in 72 hours, and from there I would move forward with a plan in mind.

    M23 - I dont' want you to go away from this post thinking I advocate being deceitful, but in this case if you are desperate to get some answers then I don't know what else you could do. There is another "act" that parents can do for their adult children - I'll have to check in a few books to see if I can remember and get more info for you.

    I STILL think it would be an okay thing if somehow you got your daughter to sign a HIPPA agreement that would allow the docs to share their findings on your daughter with you. She would have to give her signature on a form. Then they could talk to you about it. And if it's for the good of her son what harm could it do for you to know where you stand with him - except see she's already throwing in that no pills/no psychiatric hospital for MY son like you did me - so maybe you're back to the 1st suggestion.

    Narcissism disorder was a thought for me too as Dude has traits of Borderline (BPD) and Narcissistic personality disorder and NPD runs in females more than males. Actually the traits Dude has in NPD are female.

    If you ever get a chance to read CRAZY - Do it - it will explain TONS to you about our mental health system and how parents' hands are tied. It's actually where I got the idea to lie about the Baker Act. The authors son was delusional and schizophrenic and the psychiatrist didn't "suggest" that he lie to the police to have his son committed. Once in? They kept him longer than the 72 hours. My x tried to jump off a bridge in FL and they did an "act" on him and it wasn't baker - that's what I'm trying to think of. When I get it I'll let you know. It helped his Mom get him extended services. After 72 hours you can check yourself out. And this one you cant.

    ARGH i hate brain lag.

  9. flutterbee

    flutterbee Guest

    A manic episode can look like that, too. I don't remember if she takes medications.

    There's so much overlap between all of these conditions that it really takes a professional to sort it out.

    I was going to say something else, but it's gone. If it comes back, I'll post again.

    I will keep good thoughts for your mother and your grandson.