difficult child's latest incident...

[klmno]

After waiting 15-20 mins to see him this morning, I hear he is in administrative hold so he has to visit me in handcuffs. As I hear it from difficult child and staff (at least so far), there were a couple of mini-fights going on in difficult child's unit on Friday. difficult child said his room-mate is in a gang and although they'd normally gotten along ok (difficult child is not in a gang), the gang of the room mate thought difficult child stole some gang info from the room mate and told the room mate to address it with difficult child. So during all this on Fri, while difficult child was sitting at a rec table with another boy, the room mate came over and starting hitting difficult child. difficult child stood up, "blacked out" and starting hitting back. difficult child says they are both about the same size but he had to give him all he had in order to hold his own. A staff member (female) came over and jumped between them to split it up and happened to be unfortunate enough to catch difficult child's next swing that was already in motion......and she was rushed to the emergency room with a broken nose.

From what I hear, the woman told the other staff that she didn't think the punch was meant for her or that difficult child meant to assualt her. They rolled the security films back and after watching them, wrote him up with 2 institutional charges (meaning they'll deal with it in-house and decide his punishment themselves) instead of a "street-charge" (meaning another arrest and court appearance and additional sentence).

Sigh. The last time difficult child punched me in the nose- I think 2+ years ago- I was seriously concerned that it might have been broken.

difficult child said that right afterwards a guard who'd been watching the incident in progress got on the intercom for difficult child's unit and said "wow, difficult child, I had no idea you could fight like that- I saw what the kid did to you". difficult child just seems like he doesn't know what to do- he says he just can't help it when he gets mad, he blacks out, but swears he didn't mean to hit the staff woman and that he backed off immediately when he saw he had and apologized to her. I said she should have been trained better ways to break up a fight than to jump in between the two but difficult child says that is what juvenile staff are trained to do. on the other hand, if that punch had hit the roomate and more than likely broken his nose, difficult child would probably have had HE!! to pay from that gang.

 

[DDD]

Lordy, that must have been an instant stomach ache for you. So sorry that it probably derailed your planned discussons. I'm glad they kept it to themselves and thankful that they had the cameras going. Somehow I've never quite gotten how boys are suppose to get hit with-o hitting back. Usually in school or Department of Juvenile Justice they are authority figures nearby but by the time they arrive you could be beaten to a pulp. Our schools punish the hitter and the hittee as being equally responsible. Fortunately for me neither easy child/difficult child or difficult child have been involved in fights but I always wonder what you are suppose to tell your kid to do. Hope the rest of your weekend goes well. Cook on the grill and pretend you are on a beach in Florida surrounded by people who think you look hot in your new bikini and are hoping to get invited to share your Porterhouse. Hugs, DDD

 

[klmno]

Our schools punish the hitter and the hittee as being equally responsible.

Our sds and Department of Juvenile Justice facilities do that here, too. But they will also tell the boys in Department of Juvenile Justice that if they don't defend themselves, they will catch worse from other "wards" (aka, inmates). So, that is why difficult child was charged even after they reviewed the film. Still, the films will be reviewed again by "higher ups" at this facility, a recommendation for punishment made (and that will be the one given), a treatment team/in house hearing held for difficult child, and the punishment delivered. I'm keeping fingers crossed that the higher ups determine the same thing the staff did and that difficult child won't be sentneced to several days or longer in isolation. If that happens, he can't go to their school and has to take zeros and that will cost him a year-long credit in one class and his opportunity to complete the written portion of driver's ed this summer (his reward for doing well academically and behaviorally in school this past school year).

 

[TerryJ2]

Oh, dear. So sorry.
Kind of funny that the guard was almost giving difficult child an "atta boy." ! I suppose when you work in a place like that, though, you hate to see the newbies beaten to a pulp.
Sounds like they will review it all and give it some more thought. I want difficult child to stay with-his schooling.

 

[susiestar]

I have always found the position that punishes the victim as well as the aggressor to be stupid and mean and unjust. in my opinion the one who initiates the fight shoudl be punished and the other one not. I do think that taunting someone until they take a swat at you should count, but situations like this one where difficult child was just sitting there minding his own business and the other kid came to him and started punching should NOT result in difficult child's punishment. If the Department of Juvenile Justice worker got between them, well, that is her fault and whomever trained her to do that's fault. NOT your son's. Now I am ALL for our kids taking the consequences of their actions, but this is stupid to me.

I am sorry that he has to go through this, and at least some of the guards know he had no choice.

Have any of you heard of the book ," In defense of flogging"? The author says we should consider bringing back flogging as a punishment for crimes. It would cut the costs of prisons hugely, esp for minor crimes. His point wasn't so much that flogging is better but that prisons are HORRIBLE and do NOTHING but serve as universities for criminal behavior. Things like this make me think it might be an idea. My dad was ll for swats for jr high kids. The kids know the consequences, they are immediate, not negotiable, not disfiguring when done properly (no holes in the boards, not out to truly hurt a person), and they don't leave you in limbo for days or weeks where kids figure they may as well do whatever they want - they won't get any different punishment. I don't know that I agree completely, but there MUST be something we can figure out that is better than jail.

 

[klmno]

I agree, Susie. While I wasn't there, I can only trust that the higher ups will review the tapes in entirety and find out what happened. difficult child said that if they do that (and he believes they will), that they will see that the mini-fights were all kids in this gang starting them and that right before the one kid came over and starting punching difficult child, he had been talking in a group of those gang members. We both speculate that the staff and higher ups have an idea of who is in what gang and they will figure it out. That's all assuming difficult child was telling me the truth. I tend to think he is, regarding the situation, because of what staff told me. But, I also think there's a possibility that the difficult child saw that staff and maybe could have stopped his swing before it hit her but was so mad and not thinking at the time that he didn't care. I only say that because he has been mad at me in the past and deliberately punched me in the face and in the stomach. He's much bigger and stronger now than when I caught those punches from him at 12-13yo and they hurt pretty bad then. He really didn't need to know that he's strong enough now to break a person's nose.

Is it normal for a 16yo to "black out" (difficult child's term) when he loses his temper?

I most definitely bellieve that there's a lot to be said for punishing a kid appropriately when a situation occurs and not turning everything into a court proceeding and incarceration. I learned when difficult child was in 2nd grade, I believe, that the sd board had determined "writing sentencesa, even 10, was an inappropriate punishment for a child", but having the kid handcuffed, arrested, and locked up is perfectly acceptable. How stupid is that? A teacher can't tell the kid to write some sentences, neither the teacher or parent is supposed to just swat their hiney, but you can send them to jail???? And they wonder why the kids got out of control and say it's the parent's fault. Nope, in my humble opinion, it's when higher ups decided to tell parents and teachers they couldn't punish a kid anymore without the fear of cps being called in and the people in the "system" quit backing up the parents. I realize that a small percentage of teachers and parents went too far with corporal punishment, when it was allowed, and some just mnever had a concept about appropriate punishment, the swing to not allow it at all for anyone, basicly, was not the solution to that problem, in my humble opinion.

 

[DDD]

I don't know about "blacking out" but I can accept that one would hyperfocus on the perceived danger and be oblivious of others around. Even at my age I can "zone in" to a situation and not be aware of the surroundings. DDD

 

[klmno]

That's what I wonder. I doubt that my son has ever been so intoxicated that he means "black out" in the sense of really disassociating or not remembering at all; I tend to think he's getting so mad he's just losing his temper and thus, losing control and acting impulisively but I don't know. I guess it would take a MH prof to decipher that, if difficult child would open up to one about it all.