difficult child's request

[Echolette]

difficult child has been out of rehab for a week now. He has been clean for two weeks. He picked up some day work as a laborer. He is paying for his own phone (and cigs and candy and transportation to work)
He goes to meetings twice a day. He's been enveloped by SO's boyfriend, who is an alcoholic with 10 years clean.
And he wants to live at home.(that was the punchline)
You'll be proud to hear that I said 'we can talk about that'
Then i let So know (in the past i would have kept that to myself..my house my kid my decision, right?)
difficult child is hard to have around. He has some sort of social dysfunction (sometimes labelled as Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD), Aspergers, or autism) that includes having no sense of when to talk and when to shut up. He always wants to play me a so g on iTunes. He'll ask me while I'm preparing a dinner for friends if 'capitalism by definition includes a free market economy' or some question better designed for sitting around with coffee and cigarettes and a beret.
None of this is bad...but it is exhausting.
his presence will strain my relatiinship with so an with my easy child teenagers, when i have custody of them.
I feel that he needs support if this new trend is going to stick.

I feel i probably shouldn't worry too much because it is likely he'll walk out the door in a week or two! (Cynical echo)

I don't know where he can live that would be supportive enough for his particular brand of crazy.

I don't know what to do.

As an aside, I've been deeply engaged in stopping the enabling codependency with so. He declared bankruptcy two years ago and has never really gotten on his feet..he can't seem to find a new path, or to re-engage with his old path to make a living. He lives with me now, and for a few months i paid his car loans and insurance. That stopped in march when i suddenly realized i was recreating a 47 year old difficult child, WHICH EVEN HE DIDN't want (right Cedar? I hear you nodding)
For a whole i was making suggestions, finding job retraining programs, offering to pay him to paint the house..and now..i am just standing back. I'm taking a course in mindful listening, so I try and be wholly present while he tries to sort things out.

But i am clear that i can't and won't support a healthy 47 year old man, no matter how loving and helpful and kind he is.

That sounds obvious but it is a big step for me.

Still..I'm on a bit of a seesaw..takes a lot of effort to not enable, and as i succeed with so i slip with difficult child...

That was a long digression,but it is what is in my head.

Back to the real issue, which is...i am not sure how to approach the answer to difficult child's question. And I'm not clear on what the target housing for my 20 year old with a functional score of 60 really is....

Echo

 

[pasajes4]

I will be in the same boat when mine comes home. He can not live with me. He can not live on his own. There does not seem to be a solution to this particular situation.

 

[Albatross]

Echo, first of all that is such wonderful news!

I have no advice to give, but these are the questions that occur to me.

First, I am relatively new and don't know all of the history of your son. But from what I have followed since I have been here, this seems like it is new and hard-fought territory for him. Is that true?

It sounds like he read your pain-filled letter describing who he has become and decided he does not want to be that person anymore. And going to meetings, working to pay his expenses and getting a support system is HUGE. When I say my prayers, I always include "Echo's son, who is living under a bridge," so this kind of progress is tremendous! Do you feel this is sincere? Or is he just doing it to get into your graces?

How does he respond to having the pressure eased up? My son is doing well right now, because he's working 12 hours a day in the hot sun, has to attend AA meetings daily, knows if he doesn't pay his rent or has a drink he will be instantly homeless, etc. If I let him move back home at this stage, if the hammer was eased up even a little, I believe it wouldn't be long before he'd be back where he was.

Are there any alternative clean and sober living facilities available? (Something the boyfriend of SO might know about?) The one difficult child is at now is very small, all guys his age and off the radar. I am wondering if there is anything like that, where your difficult child would feel like he is part of a group. It sounds to me like he needs to be part of a group somehow, or he is going to go back to his friends under the bridge.

If he is sincere, if this is new ground, if it won't encourage a relapse and if he has nowhere else to go, I would probably give it a shot for his sake.

But for your sake, to be blunt, is it going to make everybody exhausted to the point of crazy? And if so, are there ways to build in safe retreats ahead of time? I would say no, if there is no way to depressurize. Everybody needs a sanctuary.

Either way, it sounds like a lot to take on, and I'm sorry you're dealing with it. But I'm so very happy to read about where he is at today!

I am very naive in the ways of our difficult children, but these are the things I would need to think about first. And by the way, the "cigarettes and beret" line was hysterical!

 

[Childofmine]

Echo, more progress. This is great. More progress. You did that hard work, you changed and stuck to your change (awesome!!!) and he has changed. This is our fondest hope...it's happening here. I am so glad.

So now, the ball is back in your court with him wanting to live at home.

I would think, for now, a halfway house is a much better place for him to be, for now. They have rules, drug tests, have to have a job, have to start paying your own way, doing chores around the house, curfews, etc.

If you like this idea, you could offer to pay for the first week (two weeks, whatever?) then a sliding scale for two more weeks or longer, while he gets some money ahead. He needs to get a full time job anyway---to stay busy and start taking care of himself more and more.

Go slow, Echo. I would not let him back into my home right now. I think he may backslide---his steps are so new and so tentative----and after all, relapse is part of it----and you don't need him there anyway.

He's 21, time to move forward, and moving back home isn't forward.

Your home is your sanctuary. You need that, Echo, with all you are dealing with.

You could start seeing difficult child more regularly, maybe, for lunch or dinner once a week. Take it slow.

Slow is good. Warm hugs! For just a minute, let's pause and be so grateful for this positive step for difficult child, before we dive back in.

 

[Childofmine]

And Echo---if he has a sponsor in AA, that person can help guide him in these logistics.

You don't have to do it.

It will be good for difficult child to ask for help for a place to live in AA, talk to them about a better job, make the phone calls himself.

That is the stuff of building self-esteem.

 

[JKF]

I will be in the same boat when mine comes home. He can not live with me. He can not live on his own. There does not seem to be a solution to this particular situation.

Uggggh! It's so frustrating! There's no in between with kids like ours. And there's nothing we can do about it. The more help we give the more it sets them - and us- back. It's so tempting to say yes - come home. But we know what will happen within a couple of days time. Old patterns will emerge. It will be as if they never left and the h-e-l-l will begin again. It's like a merry-go-round that won't stop. I personally can't and won't ever do that again although in all honesty, the alternative of allowing him to be homeless isn't much easier.

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

I'm taking a course in mindful listening

:O)

I'm not clear on what the target housing for my 20 year old with a functional score of 60 really is....

Echo, I think this is where you call the nice Social Services lady. The very best thing for your son, especially now that he has a sponsor and a better, different kind of hope for his life, is to be in his own apartment. Now Echo, while the iron is hot. I wonder whether presenting it to difficult child in just that way would be the best thing. To love him enough to be honest with him about the importance of choosing to take on a man's responsibilities, whatever his challenges.

There is true respect for him in that, Echo.

That is what I mean when I am always posting about realizing that backing up for my kids (or for anyone, really) is disrespectful, not only to me, but to the person I am in relationship with.

For my son, what was needed was a wake up call regarding the kind of man he wanted to be as evidenced by the way he was talking to his own mother. It was actually very wrong of me to have allowed our relationship to slide into what it was because my son was drug addled.

Your situation, both with your son and with S.O. is different in some ways, but the central issue is the same: For us to respect ourselves, we really do have to be better than we knew we could be. Because I know my son is using (or just plain rude) does not mean I get to back away from expecting the best from him.

That your son is challenged in another way does not mean that you get to back away from expecting him to do the best he can with what he does have.

Also, I loved your comment about cigarettes and berets. Ha! That was so funny.

:O)

*****************

And he wants to live at home.(that was the punchline)
You'll be proud to hear that I said 'we can talk about that'

I am proud, Echo.

Where is he living, now?

ut i am clear that i can't and won't support a healthy 47 year old man, no matter how loving and helpful and kind he is.
That sounds obvious but it is a big step for me.
Still..I'm on a bit of a seesaw..takes a lot of effort to not enable, and as i succeed with so i slip with difficult child...

Change is a strange thing. As I let go of old behavior patterns, I find myself in the uncomfortable position of not knowing how to respond. It is like I have to think it through, every time. Over time, I am becoming familiar with this new, clearer self.

I like her, better.

She loves with clarity and compassion.

The way I was, I loved with something like...pity. That was the change that happened in me as I took responsibility (and blame) for what happened to my family. How awful for all of us, for everyone in my circle of influence. So, I am learning that it is best to be honest up front, as kindly and as truthfully as I can be.

Maybe Echo, this is where you are, too.

It seems so cruel to say what a thing is. It seems almost criminally mean to be able so easily to help, and to refuse to do that for the sake of the other guy's growth and integrity, because the other guy feels betrayed when you don't leap in and, out of pity, save them.

Which leaves us in the FOG.

We just went through a thing with our 21 year old granddaughter. That is how I know this.

Time passes so slowly when I have not helped, when I have not taken responsibility, and a situation has not been resolved.

I am learning to hang on.

I do review the situation again and again to be sure I meant what I said, and to be certain what I said is what I meant.

Which sounds really convoluted, but I am trying so hard Echo, to change the course of things for my family.

And for me and husband.

I think you are doing so beautifully, Echo. I remember when you came to us. I remember how I was, when I came in the first time, all those years ago for difficult child son and when I came back again, over difficult child daughter. Our situations are so difficult, Echo. There is no right answer, no immediate resolution.

That is a hard thing to know.

Actually? I think we have courage like some lion hearted warrior. I do. There are so many people Echo, who buckle and buckle. Their children never even manage independence, and that sickness of enabling and resentment is the only pattern of interaction they know. Wrong or right, we are trying something new, something purposeful and intentional. But here's the thing: We know in our hearts that the other way doesn't work. We are determined to have better for ourselves and our kids, and we are fighting for it with everything we know.

It's impossible to remember that, on the bad days.

Cedar

 

[BusynMember]

I'm so cynical. To me two weeks of good doesn't mean anything. I've had two months of good and it reverted. But, being on the sunny side, I agree that a social worker is the perfect person to help him find services for his particular needs. Has he been labeled disabled? If he has Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD)-not otherwise specified, why not? My son had no trouble getting labeled disabled, getting a ton of services, and getting ongoing help with that diagnosis. Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD)-not otherwise specified is a pretty serious form of Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD).

The drug abuse...I don't know if that would interfer with his services or be a part of them. He should be getting disability, have a caseworker, and have Medicaid. There is a lot of help out there for people who are autistic. I actually think Sonic is offered more help than he needs. Why have you not explored that? It would help him greatly.

Maybe if he feels that his disability is supported and recognized it will be easier for him to quit the drugs????

Hugs and hope!

 

[tryagain]

Echo, I am so glad to hear of this progress. So many times you have given me encouragement with my difficult child and now I want you to know that when I read your post, I felt as if a little victory had been won for us all.

When any of us have something to be even somewhat optimistic about, I really feel it. There is a gestalt situation going on here, where our whole is greater than the sum of each of us individually. It's a vital force.

Since I have not dealt with your exact situation, I really don't have any advice. But I can relate to your difficult child wanting to come back home. When I had to tell difficult child that she should not live here again, I know that the strength that I gained here help me to say the words.

I am praying right now that he continues forward progress. Even if it's one step forward and two steps back, at least that is motion, an idea I comfort myself with if I begin to despair about my difficult child.

Hugs to all of you awesome moms.

 

[recoveringenabler]

Echo, I think this is where you call the nice Social Services lady

I like Cedar's idea ECHO, call that nice lady.

It's a hard call and I understand your dilemma. He has made strides, however, living with him for any amount of time is certainly problematic. And, he could slip back at any time.........I get it.

Having said that, and of course, all our situations are so similar and yet very different, I have permitted my daughter to stay with us for the moment. She continues to exhibit a shift, each day moving even more in a positive direction, so it seems (at the moment), it's pretty good.

I am under no delusions, I understand that at any moment, it could all go south and she could slip into who she was before........and she knows that would be the day that she would be leaving here. The agreement is, as long as she is working, saving her money, looking for a place to live and a car, that we will assist her by allowing her to be here. No money, no other perks, just a couch and on occasion she can use my car to go to work, no other time though.

You and I made some hard choices a little while ago, we detached from our kids and it was very clear to all of us that the end game had arrived. You and I made it absolutely clear that we were no longer participating in any of their shenanigans. I was done. And, I know that my daughter got that on a big level. She knew it, no doubt about it.

As I watched my daughter make different choices, get 2 jobs (could actually be 3 jobs!), get a bank account, act in respectful and appreciative ways, I allowed her to stay on our couch. Not in our extra room, I didn't want this to be a long term thing, but as long as she was doing something positive, I felt I wanted to help her. Previous to this, she did not exhibit any behavior which made me believe she had changed in the ways she has now.

I understand your anxiety and your trepidation, I had a lot of that. The history our kids bring with them looms large. But, something just felt different this time, there was a whole different 'feel' to it, so I went with it and took a risk. So far, so good. I'm taking it one day at at time, knowing that I can change my mind at any time and she can leave.

I didn't know what to do either, I followed my instincts, I observed closely how my daughter was acting and what she was doing and what her choices were and if she was willing to listen to me. I made it very clear that if I felt weird at any time, then she would need to leave.

I don't know your son, I don't know what the best course of action is for you or for him, I can understand why you are on the fence and I can certainly understand everyone's responses, they ALL make sense. But, really, only you really know because you can see with your own eyes and listen with your own ears. It may be a good idea for him to live elsewhere now. It may be exactly what is necessary for him to grow up and learn to make responsible choices without you. And, on the other hand, to be with his family during a fragile time in his life, may be the right thing to do. I don't know. But, I trust that you know. I trust that if you dig deep in your heart, you will know the right course of action........for this moment..........which can change again tomorrow.

For me, it helped to realize that nothing is forever, this could all blow up this afternoon...........or she could actually maintain and pull a new life out of it. As she calms down from the relentless drama of the last couple of years, she is actually pleasant to be around.

Last night when I was reading upstairs in bed, I could hear my SO and my daughter talking downstairs.............I thought to myself, geez, there is something so poignant and sweet about knowing your kid is safe in your home................those of us here whose kids have been homeless or in jail and leading such intensely unsafe lives know the fear and the devastation of not knowing........ which I think is the worst case scenario.............and I've lived through that. And, I may live through it again, who knows? But, just for that moment, I was so grateful. Something other parents take for granted ..............that their kids are safe.............something I haven't felt in a very, very long time.

Another important feature that has occurred spontaneously for me is that I have been able to express a lot more to my daughter because she is right here. Just the other night I told her, calmly and without any energy on it at all, how much resentment I have carried about how her life has bled into mine and how profoundly that impacted me. When she responded by saying her life has been a mess too........I was able to say, "yes it has, but you created that mess, I didn't and yet my life was immensely impacted by your choices." She didn't say anything after that. We both knew the truth of what I said. I don't know how that impacted her, but it was very, very good for me to say it. And, that has happened a couple of times now. For me and for my granddaughter. I believe, for us, that this is a valuable time for a lot of hurts and angers to be expressed to the source and for all of us to move on in a healthier way. And, it's gotten easier too, it's gotten a whole lot easier for all of us.

Refrain if you are unsure, wait a while, as you said you would, just mull it all over. I trust that you will come up with the right choice for you and for your difficult child, whatever that is. Hang in there ECHO, this is hard stuff we do here.............there are no easy answers............there are no how to books, we all have to learn to trust ourselves along the way and to take off the veil of illusion we suffer under and see the truth, no matter what that looks like............ we have to deal with it.

Sending you comforting thoughts and warm hugs..........

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

I was so grateful. Something other parents take for granted

Yes.

.I was able to say, "yes it has, but you created that mess, I didn't and yet my life was immensely impacted by your choices."

What a strange and powerful place to be, Recovering. The opposite side of "where have I gone wrong".

I believe, for us, that this is a valuable time for a lot of hurts and angers to be expressed to the source and for all of us to move on in a healthier way.

Your emphasis continues to be on a healthy, well-balanced future, Recovering. I sometimes lose sight of that goal.

Cedar

 

[Echolette]

To love him enough to be honest with him about the importance of choosing to take on a man's responsibilities, whatever his challenges.
There is true respect for him in that, Echo.

that is ths crux of it. That is where I am trying to go..to see that path, and keep my feet on it with sureness.

The way I was, I loved with something like...pity.

And I loved with disdain.

When I say my prayers, I always include "Echo's son, who is living under a bridge,"

that is completely lovely, and moved me deeply. thank you for doing that, and for telling me.

So difficult child continues to do better than usual..I can't say well because uh, he is staying at my house sleeping in his brothers room, has no work today and $30 in his pocket. If he is still here on Sunday he'll have to move to his sister's old room. He wanted to sleep in the large room with the TV and separate bathroom in the basement (it is our entertainment area but rarely used) but I said no...a little too comfy and independent down there. Right now he is right down the hall from me. On the other hand he worked Monday and Tuesday, went to two AA meetings both days, and came home last night after his AA meeting and asked about chores for today.
I paid for his prescription for lithium and abilify, and paid for his copay for outpatient rehab which starts today (he went to his intake on Monday). I haven't given him any other money, nor is he paying anything towards living at home (just for full disclosure).

He doesn't have a key to the house, can only come in when one of us can let him in .

Refrain if you are unsure, wait a while

I am practicing refraining, bolstered by daily feedback from you all. I ALMOST gave him money for doing chores today...but I did not (I left him a note asking him to do about 90 minutes of stuff around the house and one errand).

He asked me to go to the family meeting at rehab on Saturday (MORE FAMILY MEETINGS!!) I said "maybe" but I think I will hold off..once he has gone for a couple of weeks I'll engage, but not before then.

I ALMOST bought him a phone card so he has unlimited minutes and texts for at least a few days...but I didn't

I have learned better how to pause, again, thanks in large part to the emphasis on that here.

You and I made some hard choices a little while ago, we detached from our kids and it was very clear to all of us that the end game had arrived. You and I made it absolutely clear that we were no longer participating in any of their shenanigans.

I am still detached. I feel like I am looking at this from a distance, fairly cooly (as opposed to coldly). I do feel myself falling into old patterns several times a day, but the practice of detachment, and the agony and exercise of finally deciding to completely remove myself from his life unless he tried to change..those help me be cool and make cool headed decisions more slowly.

I'm so cynical. To me two weeks of good doesn't mean anything

Yes yes yes. And yet.. a lifetime of good behavior has to start with two weeks. I am trying to tread the balance of gently supporting him if this happens to be the beginning of a lifetime!

Why have you not explored that? It would help him greatly.

This is a very very sore point with me, and I have a tendency to ge nasty at the drop of a hat with difficult child when this comes up. When he was 17 I spent the whole year rallying resources...got him a caseworker, medicaid, SSI, foodstamps because of his disability. I got him job readiness evaluation and training, and therapy, all because of his disability. It took me a year of patient phone calls, meetings, forms, follow-up, more of the same, dead ends, over and over. And finally...I had it all in place.

Since then he has lost it all by....failing to meet his caseworker for weeks on end...changing his address for SSI to a place that provides that service for the homeless, then not responding to social security for annual updates...not sure what happened to foodstamps but they've been gone for some time..

So honeslty, I am VERY MAD AT HIM for wasting all that effort. Whenever he brings up that he needs my help reinstating SSI I flip out..."this is why I got you a caseworker...blah blah blah". he gets the deer in headlights look, I get a drink, and it all goes nowhere. I need to figure out how to deal with that particular trigger.

I did call his old caseworker agency and talked to the head (I AM IN DANGER OF ENABLING) to see if his case could be reopened..she gave me cause for hope and also said sh'e look into appropriate housing options for him..she was always pretty great, and actually remembered him from two years ago because of difficult child's sweetness and SO's charm (SO dealt with caseworkers for his mom, for whom he was the sole caretaker despite her floridly psychotic bipolar disorder) from when he was 13 on...he loves them and really shows his appreciation).

Echo, I think this is where you call the nice Social Services lady

That particular nice lady has come and gone, as they all do. she was part of his inpatient stay, but no follow up. My challenge..or is it difficult child's challenge how? Is to find the new "nice lady". I made a stab at that by calling his old agency. He claims to have a caseworker at the local crisis center..he says he is going to see her today and ask about SSI etc....we'll see (says Echo, feeling cynical)

Uggggh! It's so frustrating!

This made me laugh. thanks for that!

it is new and hard-fought territory for him.

I have seen him talking this talk before, but this really does feel a bit different..he is a bit older, has a bit more experience of rough living..it does feel like a new day.

Do you feel this is sincere?

I do feel he is sincere. Today. One of his notable characteristics is complete inability to stick to a plan once the going gets frustraing, slow, or rough....so we will see.

Are there any alternative clean and sober living facilities available?

this is a good idea (why am I so slow sometimes?) i did some googling yestarday. We were talking about halfway houses and transitional living places, but this sounds better. Thank you!

It sounds to me like he needs to be part of a group somehow, or he is going to go back to his friends under the bridge.

He absolutely needs and craves friends. If he doesn't find them through AA, living, or work, he will indeed find some nice junkies who accept his weirdenss because they are too stoned to notice.

If you like this idea, you could offer to pay for the first week (two weeks, whatever?) then a sliding scale for two more weeks or longer, while he gets some money ahead. He needs to get a full time job anyway---to stay busy and start taking care of himself more and more.

This is kind of where I am headed, after taking in all of your thoughts and comments. IF he continues to toe the line I will continue to let him stay with me day by day while we look for suitable housing. when this started I was going to toss him into the first transition house I could find...but I want to take time , move slow, let him do the bulk of the work, and see if we can find something lasting.

You could start seeing difficult child more regularly, maybe, for lunch or dinner once a week. Take it slow.

He would like that reassurance.

 

[Childofmine]

I can't say well because uh, he is staying at my house sleeping in his brothers room,

It's okay, Echo. You are doing what you decided to do, right now. You are the only one who knows the whole story. I find myself fantasizing about what I could do for difficult child's birthday coming up July 27, buy him a month at a halfway house, get him a bike, a Kroger gift card...we all want to do for our kids, especially those who struggle and have our heart and then even more especially, when they start taking steps in the right direction.

I am still detached. I feel like I am looking at this from a distance, fairly cooly (as opposed to coldly). I do feel myself falling into old patterns several times a day, but the practice of detachment, and the agony and exercise of finally deciding to completely remove myself from his life unless he tried to change..those help me be cool and make cool headed decisions more slowly.

Good. This is exactly where you need to be, right where you are, right this minute. You are human, and you are going to vascillate. This is a highly transitional and emotional time, so give yourself a lot of breaks.

a lifetime of good behavior has to start with two weeks.

I agree. It has to start somewhere. And it likely will not be smooth and all-forward and pretty all the time. So get ready for that, Echo. It's going to be bumpy. You bumpy. Him bumpy.

How are you going to handle it as the bumps begin? Think about that, and start making a plan about that for YOU. That is good work and good time well spent.

This is a very very sore point with me, and I have a tendency to ge nasty at the drop of a hat with difficult child when this comes up. When he was 17 I spent the whole year rallying resources...got him a caseworker, medicaid, SSI, foodstamps because of his disability. I got him job readiness evaluation and training, and therapy, all because of his disability. It took me a year of patient phone calls, meetings, forms, follow-up, more of the same, dead ends, over and over. And finally...I had it all in place.
Since then he has lost it all by....failing to meet his caseworker for weeks on end...changing his address for SSI to a place that provides that service for the homeless, then not responding to social security for annual updates...not sure what happened to foodstamps but they've been gone for some time..
So honeslty, I am VERY MAD AT HIM for wasting all that effort. Whenever he brings up that he needs my help reinstating SSI I flip out..."this is why I got you a caseworker...blah blah blah". he gets the deer in headlights look, I get a drink, and it all goes nowhere. I need to figure out how to deal with that particular trigger.

This is the I'm-so-freakin-tired-of-the-same-old-thing-over-and-over-again hamster wheel we were on for so long. You got it all in place and what did he do? Smashed it to smithereens. Of course you are totally and completely enraged about this. Because if this was still in place, he would have lots of resources.

But, okay, so it's not. Maybe---Echo---maybe this is the journey he HAD to take. Maybe that other journey that you put in place---you put it in place, he didn't---was not his path.

Maybe he will get it all in place himself this time---again---or maybe a combination of this---or maybe some other combination. I used to think I had it figured out exactly what somebody should do first, second and third to get from here to there.

It had to be the way I thought because, hey, it was the shortest, clearest, more common sense pathway. So....get it done. Pronto.

Only as time has gone on, and I have been FORCED to sit back and watch other people solve their problems in their own way without my awesome help and assistance, I have been humbled. I have seen that there are many ways to get from here to there, and people have their own ways, own timetable and own mistakes to learn.

It's not about me. Now, I know that he is entitled to all of these services, and yes, they would sure fill in the gaps and help him and support him, but again, maybe, just maybe, Echo, you're going to look back on this and say: Oh, I get it now. THAT's why that had to happen, so THIS could happen.

(It's still hard and still infuriating).

it does feel like a new day.

That is good. Trust that feeling and lean into it. We lean into the hard stuff. We also need to lean in to the good stuff.

Let it unfold, Echo. Just try to hang back a bit, and watch and wait and accept this new day.

One of his notable characteristics is complete inability to stick to a plan once the going gets frustraing, slow, or rough....so we will see.

Yes, exactly like my difficult child. Last night we had thunderstorms here, and lots of rain---much needed. I briefly thought---wonder where difficult child is here, tonight, with all of the rain. And then I let go of it. He is not calling me, whining to me, complaining to me, right now. That is good. He is doing whatever he is doing. Maybe it is something good for himself. I can only pray that is the case.

If he doesn't find them through AA,

He can find such great friends in AA. I just hope and pray he keeps on going. Going and going. I am praying for that.

Warm hugs Echo. You are living the true warrior life right now. Be kind to you. YOU deserve kindness.

P.S. Can SO be the go-to guy for difficult child on getting services in place, if there should need to be a go-to guy, instead of you?

 

[Albatross]

Echo, that "feels different this time" radar is something we have to honor, I think. And that distance and coolness you speak of, of course! We would be fools to not have that buffer. Oh wait, I have been that fool, many times. But I am learning.

I really like what Cedar said, about having them at home and having that time together to just randomly say something of tremendous importance to us, something that would lose its punch if we had to add it to all the OTHER tremendously important things and spew them out in a more controlled interaction.

I think it is a good idea to live in "A" room, whatever room works for you right now, not "HIS" room, and to not have a key, while something well-suited is found.

I don't know if this will help in locating something, but the place my son is at now is run by a recovering alcoholic who says he does it to stay sober. His facility is not listed on any of the sober living networks, but when he has a bed available he lets the local detox unit know, and if he thinks it will be a good "fit" with the other residents he offers a space. It's the usual halfway house stuff, weekly rent, chores, random drug tests, etc. But it's also 12 young men supporting each other under the supervision of someone with the experience to sniff out their BS.

A couple of weeks ago my son brought 3 of his friends over to get our kayaks so they could take the new guy out and "show him he could have a fun day sober." It was really pretty awesome, to see them out loading the boats, laughing, supporting a friend...doing all those things I optimistically pictured him doing when he was 21. It was a good day.

I think those friendships are so important. I've often believed that a great deal of what led to difficult child's substance issues was the hard time he had feeling like he belonged anywhere. Like you said, they will always find someone who accepts them.

Anyway, I ramble. This IS new territory, so take the time to find something that feels like it is home and sanctuary for him.

I am so very happy to read how he and you are doing today.

 

[Albatross]

Another important feature that has occurred spontaneously for me is that I have been able to express a lot more to my daughter because she is right here. Just the other night I told her, calmly and without any energy on it at all, how much resentment I have carried about how her life has bled into mine and how profoundly that impacted me. When she responded by saying her life has been a mess too........I was able to say, "yes it has, but you created that mess, I didn't and yet my life was immensely impacted by your choices." She didn't say anything after that. We both knew the truth of what I said. I don't know how that impacted her, but it was very, very good for me to say it. And, that has happened a couple of times now. For me and for my granddaughter. I believe, for us, that this is a valuable time for a lot of hurts and angers to be expressed to the source and for all of us to move on in a healthier way. And, it's gotten easier too, it's gotten a whole lot easier for all of us.

Oops, what RE said. Thanks, RE, that was very helpful to me.

 

[nlj]

Do you think that living with you is the best thing for your son?

If someone asked me that question about my own son, then the honest answer would be 'no'. There might be a part of me that wants to mother him and feed him and clean him and keep him between four walls, but it would drive him nuts in a very short time (and me too), even if it's what he thought he wanted.

Maybe helping yours find his own place soon would be the best way to help him stay on this new path. Why did he leave and go and live under the bridge in the first place? Whatever the reason, has that reason changed or disappeared?

It's great that you think he is on a new path, but maybe that path should be about moving on in a better way. I'm not sure that moving back home is the same as moving on in a better way. I would worry about the effect on you too and the effect on your relationship with SO which you say is a bit fragile at the moment.

Just my thoughts, for what they're worth.
x

 

[nlj]

He'll ask me while I'm preparing a dinner for friends if 'capitalism by definition includes a free market economy' or some question better designed for sitting around with coffee and cigarettes and a beret.

Your son doesn't fancy living in a derelict farmhouse in a forest somewhere in England does he?
He'd fit in really well.

 

[tryagain]

Good for you, Echo. The adjective "resilient" comes to mind. I was catching up on this thread after posting yesterday. And I can honestly say that I was "worn out" after reading all the posts. Let me explain.

It's just that I have done so many of those actions that you just described, have been through so many of the feelings you described, have come through the cruel hopelessness, the equally cruel hope, the optimism, the pessimism. I realized -OMG -how much we deal with on a daily basis. I guess I don't think about that any more than I have to. I just try to live day to day.

The idea that "a lifetime begins with two weeks" (would someone please tell me how to do the neat little quotes that everyone else knows how to do?) & description of "the bumps" truly resonated with me tonight. I've had a horrible day with my difficult child. We had a huge fight. Thus -"the bumps".
I was so angry that I called husband and told him to please sell the house and let's move away so I can escape her.
It is so easy to enable them. And the fear of her attempting suicide again holds us hostage and causes us to enable her in ways that we weren't doing when she lived five hours away.
She sees the P-doctor tomorrow. I hope he can help her. I can't do anything else.
So Echo, I am feeling gladness for you. It helps fill up the emptiness I feel tonight to know that one of our collective difficult children is making a little progress. I am praying for them all-and for all of us-right now.