Help! I don't think I will get through summer with 10 year with ODD/ADD

[droesch]

I am about at the end of my rope. 10 year old daughter is driving me into anxiety/depression. Displays the following symptoms of ODD/ADD:

--Argumentative almost all the time
--Annoying on purpose
--Blames everyone else for things
--Negative
--Talks about friends constantly and changes feelings about bffs constantly
--Difficulty completing tasks even just watching a movie

So I work from home p-t a few hours a day. Have no extended family as both of my parents are ill (mom - stroke; father - hospice with alzheimer's) and have no friends to do things with.

Anyone have any suggestions on what I can do to get through summer without losing it!

I can tell I am getting depressed from her constantly giving me a hard time about everything.

 

[BusynMember]

First of all, who diagnosed Daughter? Pediatricians and talk therapists are notoriously poor diagnosticians.

I also ask because a diagnosis. of ADHD/ODD is often wrong and I'd take him to a neuropsychologist for more intensive evaluation. (I don't know why I started typing your daughter as a "him", but to save time, if I say "him" I mean "her"...lol). Guess I'm uber-tired.

Ok, back on track. After the neuropsychologist, which will tell you A LOT that you haven't been told yet, I'd ask about services. There are camps and services in school and the community for our differently wired children. We also need to learn a whole different way of parenting because our kids do not respond to regular parenting methods. This requires therapy for YOU once you have a definite diagnosis. Is she on any medications? medications can be a Godsend or can make things even worse.

What types of specific behaviors are bothersome? Is she violent? Does she hit you or siblings? ARE there siblings? Is a father around? Does father have a lot to do with her life? Can you give us a background on your daughter's early development from whether s he liked to be held, to if s he cried nonstop as an infant, to her eye contact, her ability to mimic you, her physical skills, potty skills, ability to socialize appropriately with her same age peers, any odd obsessive behaviors or interests and any quirks...like lip smacking, or constant tapping, or blurting out loud noises, or flapping arms...anything really that seems unusual for kids her age. Throat clearing? Tics? Did she speak on time? Even if she caught up after a delay this a symptom of a disorder.

ADHD kids can focus when they are interested in something. If she can never focus, I would be looking at other things and, again, have another evaluation (I favor neuropsychs). Has she had a stable life?

The more you tell, the more we can help. You have been very vague and that leaves us floundering. You may want to do a signature like I did below to give us a quick overview of your family dynamics.

ADD/ODD is usually a not-so-correct diagnosis. You came here so I'm assuming you think more may be going on, thus the new evaluation. The older the child is, the easier it is for the evaluator to test in every area of function and give you sound advice.

I am very sorry you are unhappy (as we all were when we first came here) and hope we can help you if only by listening. We are glad you are here, but sorry that you felt you had to come.

 

[droesch]

Family background: no siblings living at home (brother age 26 uninvolved); father out of town for first 5 years of life, no extended family involvement, she sees paternal gp's on holidays - they are too busy with other grandchildren. I will admit there is inconsistent discipline - i give in out due to just being plain worn out - husband yells. We have no friends to do social activities with. Neighbors have families and most of the friends I have their children are grown. Maternal grandparents are both ill in nursing facility (stroke/alzheimer's). Marriage is not great - husband is around but detached emotionally. I am suffering from mild depression due to this situation as well as stress of parents illness'.
Diagnosies: with mild ADD and ODD several years ago by psychologist. We tried medications but she wouldn't take them - said they gave her a headache.
Behaviors: Excessive arguing, will not go to camps, etc. unless she is with someone she knows well (friend), difficulty in new situations, does very well in school - very bright. Not affectionate at all. Didn't like to be held much as a baby - extremely active, into everything. Would cry and get angry at age 2 if I went home from store a different way LOL. Very rigid. Rushes through homework although does well in school. Unable to occupy herself well; although she spends too much time alone in the summer.

Sorry for being so vague. I appreciate your response and hope to hear back from you. Thank you!

 

[BusynMember]

Can she transition well from one activity to another? Does s he have many varied interests?

 

[droesch]

She has a lot of different interests. She does softball, dance. She will not do any VBS or summer camps though. As far as transitioning there is some difficulty there; however, there are no problems in school. Friday was another battle. We invited 2 of her friends to spend the night and she only wanted one of them to stay for some reason. Gave us a really hard time about it. Pouting, crying, etc. I can't take it! Husband took all her electronics. Both friends came as I was NOT about to call and say she could not come as that would be rude and hurtful. She was fine. It's like she makes almost everything we do VERY difficult - even when they are things she wants to do. We went on a cruise which she was excited about. Got to port said she wasn't getting on the ship. I just feel so so alone. Between losing both my parents as they were and this I am about to go off the deep end. The few friends I do have I can't discuss this with them. They just don't get it. There kids all have grandparents and they have friends with kids, etc. We have so much idle time - it's just NOT healthy in this situation. I just spend money to make me feel better.

 

[BusynMember]

I wish I could help more, but I do think a total evaluation of your child would help both of you. Also, you may want to get into therapy yourself since you are so stressed out. Last question: Any obssessive interests?

 

[TerryJ2]

Welcome, droesc. You sound a bit like I was a few yrs ago. Although I/we did therapy from the get-go. But I know the feeling of constant arguing, not being able to stay on task, blaming everything on everyone else. And having a parent or parents in a nursing facility, suffering from Alzheimer's, and you are sandwiched in between.
It really wears you out.
Most of us here suffer from at least situational depression and many of us have gone on medication, just to make it through these years.
I agree with-the others, that your child needs a total evaluation from a neuropsychologist. Hours of testing, both psychoeducational and pscychological, along with-any testing they can do for auditory processing and even vestibular issues. Some of the tests that my friends whose kids with-Asperger's did, I did at home and saved money such as putting the kid on a swing and twirling the ropes all the way and then letting go so that they spin. Most kids will say "Stop!" but a kid with-vestibular issues, which can be common in autism, for ex, will not mind, and may even want to continue. (My son yelled "Stop!" My friend's son was totally unfazed.)
Also, does your daughter like to be held really, really tightly?
Does she shout all the time or speak really fast? There could be mood disorders mixed in there.
It is hard to tell at this age but a good diagnostician will be able to not only spot the obvious signs, but be able to see an emerging issue, such as bipolar, for example.
You've got to be totally consistent with-discipline. I know the feeling of giving in. So many days I wake up and wish I were an army colonel or football coach instead of an artist and writer.

 

[droesch]

Update - so today I took my mom to dentist (with 10 year old daughter). While she danced around the dentist which I wasn't upset about. It was a 1:45 minute appointment and she was getting ancy. We then went to the mall (her choice) for lunch. Got in line to get mom's hot dog and I asked her politely to go ask her what she wanted on her hot dog and she blatantly said "no" I'm not walking over there. Strike 1! I told her should would be punished when she got home. We went to order her food and I started to order her food and she starting yelling at me because I could not understand what she wanted and I had to ask several times. The guy was just staring like "wow" I can't believe she talks to you like that. I said nevermind on the order and let my mom eat her lunch and then said we are going home and you are grounded. She proceeded to cry and then kick the back of my seat in the car. Making appointment to see doctor this afternoon. I really think there is something seriously wrong here - she acts like a 3 year old! It's getting worse! So - I cried again today. Tried to talk to neighbor/friend and she said she seems fine to me. Really? I'm losing it!

 

[droesch]

Thank you for your input. I just posted another update. Another bad day - I really try to be optimistic but darn it's tough!

 

[TerryJ2]

Yep. There is something wrong. And once you get the diagnosis, it will help.
Clearly, she has communication issues, and clearly, a short fuse. Of course, it's all *your* fault if she can't communicate.
One of the reasons our kids yell is that they are frustrated.
Another reason is that they don't *hear* themselves yelling.
Another reason is that once they are ramped up, they don't have the skills to calm down again.
When my son did that -- screaming at me because I was ordering the wrong thing -- I often walked (or drove) away and he got nothing. Sometimes, I would deliberately place an order for something that *I* wanted. Then I would tell him that he could eat it or not, but he had no choice of any other food. That way, if he was still ranting and kicking, I'd get to eat. And if he calmed down, he could eat something different, which forced him to transition to a new food, and also got his blood sugar back up (most of our kids can't self regulate and have no idea if they are even hungry or not). A win-win situation. (I don't eat much fast food so when I do, it's not fried, and there's no skin on the chicken, and I don't do buns, for ex... rough for a kid who loves junk.)

 

[TerryJ2]

P.S. I just remembered that if it was just me and my difficult child, and we had more time, I could walk away from the counter until he calmed down, and then get him to practice his "normal" voice technique. Usually it would be about 3 X in a row. Once wasn't enough--it was just a begrudging "sorry" and a mumble. And 4 X would cause another meltdown. It's a lot of trial and error. But just to get my son to walk up and talk the cashier on his own would cause so much anxiety, he'd rather scream at me and cause a ruckus than to place the order.
I'll bet your daughter has anxiety issues. Of course, she doesn't know what it means, and won't admit it, but yelling "NO!" when you're just asking something simple like that is a giveaway.

 

[droesch]

After reading up on ODD/ADD I really feel somewhat responsible for her issues. Although, I don't think I'm a bad parent I don't think I have handled her the proper way. She has always been difficult - even as a baby - always jacked about something. I remember many, many times leaving places because she would not cooperate. Instead of just doing the simple task she just says no and I can't figure out if it's a control issue or anxiety (maybe a little of both). I feel good that I didn't give in today although I was totally embarrassed for my mom to see her behave like that. I can name more than 5 instances of that type of behavior (in social situations) in the 2 months! I'm at the point that I'm ready to medicate if it helps or I will be in the looney bin by September! I, too, do not each fast food or white bread LOL. We sound alike in that way Thank you for your responses! I will keep you posted.

 

[InsaneCdn]

Ummm... have you ever read The Explosive Child?
It changed some of my assumptions.
Instead of assuming that she intends to misbehave, and intends to drive you crazy... what happens if you assume that she's in overload mode and can't handle the combination of events?
My two are mid-teens now, and things are better. But... even 5 years ago, having to "hang out" in a strange place (dentist office) for that long would be enough to trigger a meltdown - guaranteed. We never EVER went anywhere else after a major new situation. We planned our lives differently.
Pack a lunch and go to the park to eat, if it's something she would enjoy as an unwind.
Or go home and get something familiar.
Bring "healthy snack" stuff along - then, it doesn't matter if she can't order "lunch".

Anxiety is just one possibility.
Overload due to mental fatigue from various sources can be another - Auditory Processing Disorders (APD), Developmental Coordination Disorder (DCD), sensory, etc. - is another common one.
Accumulated fatigue is another - how well does she sleep? not just how many hours, but what quality?
(we dealt with all of the above... at the same time)

 

[TerryJ2]

Where's the "like" button, Insane?

 

[InsaneCdn]

and I can't figure out if it's a control issue or anxiety (maybe a little of both)

It's all of the above and more.
But it's not a "control issue" in the usual sense... it's not that she is trying to be the boss, trying to "take control". More likely, she feels "out of control" and is trying to impose some sense of order on her world - which doesn't make sense to her.

Boy, does she sound a bit Aspie-ish.

 

[droesch]

So, today was supposed to be a blissful afternoon at the movie theatre. We got the tix, went to order popcorn and a slushy and I ordered a small instead of the large (which she wanted). She started yelling this happens all the time and got nasty again - people looking at us again. So I calmly got out of the refreshments line. She then proceeded to tell me that she hated me and wished she had a different mother! I calmly explained that I will not tolerate this behavior any longer. Lovely, so now I am back at home and she is throwing things around her room. I cannot take much more of this. I spend 50+ hours a week alone with her - I am going to lose it!!!!!!!!!! I really would like to run away from home :-( I cannot believe how much I hate my life. Feeling so, so alone all the time.

 

[InsaneCdn]

Just tossing some ideas out there...

Did you discuss the food line ahead of time with her, and pre-agree on the order? Or was this done "on the fly"?
In our house... for years we had to decide ahead of time - every single detail. Where we were planning to sit, whether food would be included and if so, exactly what food. Every doggone detail. But... when we did that, it worked better... until *I* forgot what we agreed on. So I had to learn to write it down. By then, they were old enough to read it, to confirm that I got it right.

 

[InsaneCdn]

Next stupid idea... do you have a dog? did you ever consider getting one?
Warning: if you don't know this already, dogs are a LOT of work.
But the dogs have saved our collective and individual sanity time and time again.

 

[droesch]

We did discuss the order but I probably didn't hear her say "large" drink. I suppose in my mind even if I did order the wrong/incorrect size of something does it give her the right to talk to me like she does? Instead of saying "mom can I please have a large" - it's "I told you I wanted a large this always happens, etc". I don't get it.

 

[InsaneCdn]

I don't get it.

I understand.
I didn't "get it" for a long time either.

So many of our kids are wired differently. It isn't their fault. They react to the world around them very differently than most people do.

The biggest positive impact was when WE (as parents) decided that it wasn't because difficult child "didn't want to"... he literally could not. We had to reduce overload on a dozen different fronts. We put a major focus on trying to get quality sleep, and quality down-time. We literally shut down our lives. And when we did... things got better. THEN, and only then, were we in a position to begin to address specific behaviors. Things that had become a pattern but were not acceptable. But because they had gone on for so long, difficult child believed they were "normal". We had to pick ONE behavior, and work on it for months. But each one we conquered made the next one easier... and sometimes, (more often lately), difficult child would even figure out that if X is a problem, then Y probably is too.

I know she doesn't have the diagnosis for it, but if you read up on Asperger's... you may find that the parenting techniques that work for Aspies might help you as well. Ignore the technical stuff. They get too caught up in trying to help you figure out if the kid is Aspie or not. Get the ones with practical advice - like "Be Different" by John Elder Robinson.