Hugh? Is it all in my head??

[Ktllc]

I know it's not, but sure makes you wonder.
The school evaluation was today. They used all the private testings (since they are so recent) and also conducted the CELF preschool 2 for speech.
The private testing do not qualify him for anything (not enough delay: 2 variations below or 1.5 in 2 areas is NC standard).
On the CELF, V scored about 96 and 98 in all areas of language.
So at this point: does not qualify. Everyone signed and I said I needed to talk to husband and therapists about everything before signing or agreeing to anything.
But I really don't believe I can do anything at this point. If nothing shows on the testing... what can I say? If our private testings don't fall below State standard for intervention, what can I say?
That does not invalidate what husband and I see at home. But school is not proactive, it is reactive. We might have to send V to Kindergarten and just cross our fingers that everything will be fine.
The team kept on telling me that he will do just fine. I did not want to get into an argument about the future. Nobody knows because we don't have a crystal ball. All I said is that I hoped so but I would not be here today if I believed it.
This was the team for pre-k, so whatever happens next year: the team might be a bit different (although I believe Occupational Therapist (OT), speech and psychiatric will be the same).
As far the use of an FM system: they thought it would be really good to try and I should be able to obtain a trial with a simple request (since Auditory Processing Disorders (APD) report supports it). The school Speech Language Pathologist (SLP) said it will also help narrow down what the problem is: processing/Auditory Processing Disorders (APD) or attention issues as FM system only makes attention issues worse.
I guess, my question is: what would you do?

 

[buddy]

No no no ...fm research is showing that it is helping with adhd, autism, processing etc. Ill send you the research when I get home. Also will review the CELF. It probably was not the best choice for his issues in fact many Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) verbal kids would do well on it .....sigh.

 

[InsaneCdn]

If you have the option of a trial on a personal FM system, I'd jump at it.
It is an intervention - and a major one, at that.
School is prepared to use it as a screening tool... IF the FM system is a positive change, they won't be able to take it away from him, and the Speech Language Pathologist (SLP) would definitely lean toward "processing problems", aka Auditory Processing Disorders (APD).

What is the downside? Am I missing something?

 

[keista]

Ditto Insane. Any accommodation puts him "on the map" as far a school is concerned. At the very least he must have a 504 for that. Take it and see what happens next year.

 

[Ktllc]

Insane, you are just right. I do think it is really great that they are willing to try. I guess I should have worded my question a different way!
The "what would you do" was about signing the papers and agreeing that V has no issues and therefor does not qualify for spe. ed at this point.
And get your guy's perspective on "no issues according to tests" but issues in real life.
It is hard to keep a chain of thought with a fussy toddler! lol

 

[InsaneCdn]

Can you split hairs?
Obviously, they agree that V has issues.
What he doesn't have is issues with documented severity that would qualify him for intensive supports.

Can you get them to document the issues they do see... the lack of focus, for example... and document the interventions they ARE prepared to offer (personal FM system, for one), PLUS commit to "continuing to monitor" for problems developing?

You might find it easier to sign off on "not qualified for supports" than to sign off on "not having issues"... because it's a HUGE difference.

 

[susiestar]

I don't know the exact tests used, but they are missing some big things. Either that or your private evaaaaluators were really messing things up. I know this sounds like a cop out or excuse, but giving these tests is not as easy as it sounds. They truly do have to be given a certain way and a LOT of the people I have seen give them have no real clue what they are doing. There is a reason they teach entire classes in how to give certain tests to get valid results.

Did you get subgroup/subset scores? Often the overall score is meaningless and it is the subset/subroup scores tht tell the real store. Sdly lots of school admins and teachers think that the overall score is the meaningful part. The highs and lows of the subgroups, along with the difference between the subgroup scores tell the answers.

Plus it is SUPER easy to fudge/coach/'help' kid if you want and no one is recording the testing . This is true for EVERY standardized tests. This is why our schools MUST have an impartial observer give the standardized tests that the kids take in certain grades. They use volunteers from the community and we have to go through a cuople of hours of training each year prior to proctoring the standardized testing. It really makes a BIG difference in the scores to have a teacher doing anything differently.

What did the Occupational Therapist (OT) evaluation say? Can school use that to provide services? What other testing would be more appropriate to help identify issues?

Has he been evaluated by an autism center? OFten those are a bit different and might pick up on more of his quirks and differences and give you ideas to help figure them out. Just a thought. Oh, has he ever been evaled by a developmental pediatrician? that also could be very helpful.

 

[Ktllc]

Susie, we've done all what you mentioned... A lot of red flags but no firm diagnosis besides anxiety. We are getting a second opinion for autism through a university and research program specialized in Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD).
They did not test Occupational Therapist (OT) because speech did not reveal any issues and Occupational Therapist (OT) is not a stand alone service in our area. In order to get Occupational Therapist (OT), you got to have an other area of devel. below state standard.
The devel. pediatrician just wanted to medicate him. The first time was medications for disruptive behavior not otherwise specified, the second time was for anxiety. As of today, we have not used medications and things are improving. So I am not ready to go this route.
I will have a chat with our dear Occupational Therapist (OT). She probably is the only one to understand V's complexity as a whole and has a wonderful connection with V.
Just in case I don't say it enough: thanks for all your help and input. it is so helpful.

 

[buddy]

Insane, you are just right. I do think it is really great that they are willing to try. I guess I should have worded my question a different way!
The "what would you do" was about signing the papers and agreeing that V has no issues and therefor does not qualify for spe. ed at this point.
And get your guy's perspective on "no issues according to tests" but issues in real life.
It is hard to keep a chain of thought with a fussy toddler! lol

OK I'm home, can type better....for sure go for the FM system but it wont make adhd symptoms worse unless they are using ear molds that bother him or he doesn't like the sound of it, that would be a sensitivity to that though. From what I have read and what the most recent audiologists I have talked to have said, it helps kids who have any form of attention issue whether Auditory Processing Disorders (APD), adhd, autism, and all of those. If he can't handle a personal system (headphones or hearing aid type) they might try a speaker in the room near him.

Whole schools systems are using them precisely because they DO help with adhd and those other marginal and hidden disabilities. If it was not so I highly doubt thousands and thousands of dollars would be spent on these systems in classrooms and schools these days. With how many kids have adhd, if it would set them off can you imagine those classes and school districts that have them??? LOL!

Ok, the CELF and tests like that are nice for kids where you dont even know where you are starting nor do you have any specific known concerns. It is good to use a test like that as part of an evaluation (it has a bunch of subtests looking at both expressive AND receptive language) ok but lets be realistic, it is a test that is meant to take a half hour to 45 minutes to administer to a preschool person...so how many items are really administered to check each area? So, it is not surprising that he would do well on this kind of test in my humble opinion and it is nice to know that many areas are developing well. I would not take it to mean that he has no issues and you are imagining things. You have specific concerns that are not covered here. The test is given in a nice quiet setting with props etc. I hope that now that you are going to get the FM system to trial and he is on their radar for services his issues will start to be noticed more. I wish people would do full language samples (recording a natural conversation in a typical environment and then analyzing it) because that is the true measure of what is going on for kids like V. but that takes a long time to do correctly and people just dont do it. We used to do it routinely.
Keep documenting what you see in real life. Take anything they will give you and push on.... you know in your heart what his issues are and hopefully they will catch on sooner than later! I'm sorry you are having issues in both private and public settings, you are a wonderful mom.

 

[TerryJ2]

Wish I could help. Good ideas here.
I agree with-this: school is not proactive, it is reactive
in way to many cases ...

 

[Ktllc]

A few positive came out of this disappointing day: FM system and documentation. When/if things don't go well (or worst...) the school won't be able to say that they have not been warned. It will also help eliminate the use of useless tests for V's case: they've done them all! Or do they have an arsenal of them which I'll have to exhaust?

 

[BusynMember]

Insane, you are just right. I do think it is really great that they are willing to try. I guess I should have worded my question a different way!
The "what would you do" was about signing the papers and agreeing that V has no issues and therefor does not qualify for spe. ed at this point.
And get your guy's perspective on "no issues according to tests" but issues in real life.
It is hard to keep a chain of thought with a fussy toddler! lol

Well, our SD tried to do this with Sonic, and we wouldn't sign. Furthermore, we had him tested by a private neuropsychologist and got a private school advocate who went to all the meetings with us. Just by the way V. is acting, he certainly DOES have learning issues. I have no idea what kind of test your son did, but I would want to be in charge of the testing...school testing is notoriously horrible. Also, if you get him a 504, you will have a lot of trouble changing it to an IEP if it turns out that he needs one later on. We had this problem with Daughter. She never did get her IEP back.

You can find your free parent advocate by calling your state Department of Education and asking for the person in charge of Special Needs. Do not think you can do this yourself. Usually that doesn't work. Big reminder: The school can have an informal meeting and NOT follow through. They can also do a 504 and it is not a legal document. An IEP is a legal document and MUST be followed or you have recourse. Certainly V has significant problems...and the school is trying to say, well, the test didn't show any...but they know he does. It is in the school's interest to do as little as possible. My sister works as an aide in a Special Education classroom and she tells me stories that would curl your toes. Get all you feel your son needs. It will save you fighting them later on. It is easier to take interventions away then to obtain them later on.

Good luck, whatever you decide to do

 

[Ktllc]

How about I give evryone (school and V) the benefit of the doubt? I don't sign their papers (according to them, they don't need me to sign but they were not sure since I was the first one refusing to sign. the one psychiatric was an a** and wanted to make big deal out of it, but the director knows me by now and knew better! She said it was just fine. All I kept saying is I want to go through everything with husband and therapists first). So I don't sign and send them a letter explaining that despite testings I believe V will have issues at school but I am willing to give it a try with no extra help. I could maybe also add that my willingness to give everyone a chance is in no way an approval of their decision. This way it will be documented that I do not agree that V does not have a disability, but I do agree to give it more time. Yes? No?

 

[BusynMember]

As the mother of an autistic son who got way better...a big NO! The earlier he gets help the better. He needs extra help and he is entitled to it under FAPE. I hope you do not do this just to be seen as "nice parent." It just does not work out for the kid in the long run. He is already delayed...he needs HELP, not waiting...for what? If he has no IEP, he can be suspended and expelled for "bad" behavior too (what THEY think is bad) and be ostracized in class. I would not take this easy out. Trust me, it was tempting for us too, but we fought for the interventions and it was best for Sonic.

Hugs and I wish you the best.