I hate schools/educators/the system

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by MidwestMom, Nov 4, 2010.

  1. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I am so tired of fighting for IEP's or 504s. I'm not even sure what I'm doing. I have a good Advocate, but I want to be more in "the know." I don't understand the laws and I'm stressed out and so tired of doing this that I wish my daughter would just let me pull her out of school. They have good public schools online and she could go at her own pace, but she is such a social kid, she'd be miserable without her friends, her sports, her dances etc. Ugh. If she fails, she won't even be allowed to go to them. I'm all angered out and just feel apathetic. I asked if I could sit in on the testing (me and hub) and they looked at me like I had asked a crazy question. Then hub said, "Well, can we see the tests when you're done testing her? Can we see the questions and her answers?" OF COURSE NOT! What are they trying to hide?

    I'm so glad that daughter is out of t own with her volleyball game for the next three days because I can hardly look at her without crying, knowing that the schools really don't care about her. Of course, I CAN'T cry. I have to put on a good front.

    I really can't wait until she graduates. That's my last kid, my last school fight, my last problem. I only hope she can graduate if she doesn't get supports...

    I don't know why I posted. I'm up for suggestions, but I doubt there is anything hub and I have not tried. I think I wanted to vent with others who understand :whiteflag:. Thanks.
  2. HaoZi

    HaoZi Guest

    Vent away dearie. I'm just getting started in the IEP process with mine. *hugs* Get some "me time" in there.
  3. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    I don't understand that at all and I think I'd push a little harder on that point. There is no reason you shouldn't be allowed to see a graded test of your own child- it could go a long way in determining what the specific struggle is and how to help her.
  4. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    No. Hub wanted to see the test and answers from the IEP testing that is coming up. We were looked at like aliens...lol. They never let us know the questions/answers on those tests.
    My daughter DID have an IEP. Now she has nothing. Long, ugly story of school administration lies and deceit. What else is new? I know so many people who are in this same situation...(sigh)
  5. Jules71

    Jules71 Warrior Mom since 2007

    I'm sick of it too - and I sooo feel your pain! (((HUGS))) Can you pull her out, have her do the online school, but still have her participate in the school activities and sports? It seems like people who home-school are able to still be involved in the extra curricular stuff.
  6. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    In our state, if she doesn't physically go to a particular school, she can not play on the sports team, attend the dances, or have any contact with the kids during school hours. If she could, I'd take her out yesterday...
  7. Shari

    Shari IsItFridayYet?

    I feel your pain. Many hugs.
  8. liz

    liz Guest

    I am so sorry Midwest Mom. I hope you are able to come to some sort of conclusion with the school that is acceptable to you.
    It seems to me you have a right to demand the test questions and answers and not get the run around.
  9. Wiped Out

    Wiped Out Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I'm so sorry you are dealing with all of this. Are you sure about the no contact stuff? I'm not that up on the homeschooling but I know that here children that are home schooled are allowed to come in for certain classes like strings. I don't know about other things like dances and sports but will try to do some checking (we're in the same state).
  10. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Positive. I checked on it. If you know something I don't know, PLEASE message me.
  11. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I would also recheck that about the sports angle. I think that homeschooled kids are allowed to play on their "home" school teams. Also, I would think if you are doing an online course through your state or county like so many have now, I would doubly assume they would allow kids to participate with sports or clubs at local schools. Sheesh...can we say exercise? Isnt that the big Michelle Obama thing? Move Now?

    As far as the testing, I think you are referring to the actual testing questions for the IEP right? Not her subjects like Math or History tests.

    I know when I had my neuropsychologist stuff done I badly wanted to see the tests and my results and how I did on them and the neuropsychologist refused to let me see the tests. Actually she wouldnt even give me the exact name of the test I took. Kind of ticked me off.
  12. Bunny

    Bunny Guest

    I remember a case in the newspaper here on Long Island a few years ago. A dad was homeschooling his kids, but wanted them to be involved in extracurricular activities in his local school distrct. The school said no, because they were not registered students of the district. The dad, saying the has every right to have his kids participate because he pays school taxes every year, sued the district and the courts sided with the district. Their reasoning was because the district has to have insurance for the kids who are on school property in case something happens to them, and that if they have to insurance for kids who are not registered that would be a financial burden to the district. Plus the fact the there are some kids who are registeted in the district who are not able to participate for various reasons, so to allow kids who were not registered would be unfair to the other kids.

  13. Josie

    Josie Active Member

    Have you checked into the homeschooling community in your area? In my city, there is an active homeschooling community that has dances and sports. You might be able to find enough activities for her that way.
  14. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Thanks to both of you.
    My daughter, as well as I know her, would not consider a homeschooling sports team good enough. And she loves her classmates and wants to go to dances with THEM. That's our problem. Thanks for chiming in :)
  15. svengandhi

    svengandhi Well-Known Member


    I am also on LI and looked into all that stuff when I considered homeschooling oldest boy. I ultimately decided against it because he needed to be around other kids. I sent him to a BOCES alternative HS instead and he would have been allowed to be on any team, etc. but he had no interest.

    Last week, I ran into a young lady who had gone to middle school with oldest boy. Her parents decided to homeschool her and her younger sibs after she finished 7th grade. She told me that her sibs could not play on school teams or do any clubs because NYS law bars homeschoolers due to insurance issues, so the rules are still the same as they used to be.

  16. confuzzled

    confuzzled Member

    midwest--*you* have a part time attendence rule in which a homeschool student can take up to 2 classes/day in district.
    but they "attend", they are not "enrolled" so that apparently still doesnt qualify them for extracurricular activities unfortunately.

    but 1-2 classes might satisfy her social needs.

    but i think its worth pushing them for an IEP since you said she was doing fine prior, and if you dont agree with the testing results you can insist on an independent exam.
    not sure why she wouldnt requalify with district testing if thats what her IEP was based on in the past....i wouldnt think there would be drastictly huge changes (compare to the prior
    evaluations if you can find them--it would be a red flag if for prior evaluations testing showed X, and this new one show Y....just make sure you are comparing apples to apples as test versions may have changed)

    the "reason" you cant see the q & a's is because they pay for the tests and its considered proprietary information and they don't want the information to be made public and fall in the wrong hands and/or have results skewed by a parent coaching a child. its standard, not your school. *BUT* there should be thorough reports with the names/versions of the tests, score breakdowns and explanations of what they mean...the report should be pretty specific, not just "oh her iq is this, and her achievement testing is fine so she doesnt qualify".

    i know how frustrating the process is, and it feels like it takes forever, but hang in there :-D
  17. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Thanks to everyone.
    In her discharge IEP (which we didn't realize was a discharge IEP) the school had not tested her at all, but decided she didn't need Special Education anymore because she "rarely used services" (um, not true...she used notes for tests). I do have to say, easy child has made enourmous progress from a kid to couldn't read at eight to one who is actually passing most of her classes without an IEP right now. However, "barely" is the word for science and world history and the reason is because of her reading LDs and processing problems. It will be harder for her to qualify this time because she has learned to compensate in some areas and schools HATE to give kids IEPs.
    If she does not qualify per t heir testing, I already have private, intensive neuropsychologist testing set up and WILL request an IEE. I live with her, they don't. She's a good kid, but she can barely read a magazine (takes her forever), gets very confused when told to do more than one thing, forgets everything, can't organize and really does have a terrible memory. We'll see. The first semester is always easier than the rest of the year in school. Hub and I are really worried and both of us are so sad when daughter cries and says, "I'm retarded." School is very difficult fof her for many invisible disabilities...the hardest to get the schools to act on!
  18. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    My guess is that if the sd tested her and she didn't sualify for an IEP, it's because the sd only gives minimal tests to begin with that primarily screen for LDs, not "disorders" that still effect a child's ability to learn- my son probably wouldn't have qualified to begin with if we'd gone that route. So my question is- the first time she qualified, did you have any private or additional tests done that the sd didn't give her this time? Second thing- the very fact that she is struggling now but wasn't struggling when she had an IEP in place proves something. Can you appeal the decision that she doesn't need one now? You ca request they give her additional test(s) to cover the areas of "the suspected" disability.

    I didn't catch before that the test results you weren't allowed to see were from the evaluation, not regular class tests. Anyway, ask to see subtest results if they haven't been provided. I couldn't afford private testing last year for my difficult child's re-evaluation so the sd did them. She first came back with "average" on everything and it didn't look like difficult child struggled with anything except bad behavior and snotty attitude (he does have those at times). But I asked (in writing) for breakdowns and for them to be included in written report. They revealed high results in one subtest but below average/difficulty in the next subtest on two different major tests. I used this to prove that he was a bright (not genius) student but did have difficulty processing some things if taught certain ways. Since the sd psychiatric had averaged those to begin with, it did come out average. But when broken down, it wasn't average at all. These sd psychs "interpret" and report results in a way that backs up what the school has told them they believe about the student in every case I've ever heard of.
  19. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Thanks for writing.

    The SD didn't test her at all. They went by her achievement tests and their feeling that she wasn't using the services and was still doing well. The problem is, achievement test scores don't show disabilities and she WAS using the services. I'm really angry about that, but mostly at hub and I for going in there without an Advocate. That is the first (and last) time we will ever do that without one sitting next to us. Our Advocate would have caught what they were doing and would have taken us to mediation before she would have let us sign it. But...hindsight is wonderful...

    My daughter was far worse when she was first tested. The school actually advised it because she was eight years old and in third grade and still couldn't even read at a first grade level AND this was even though she was in Title I. Through the years she has had really good help and has somewhat learned to compensate, but not enough to do the work without any interventions. Her processing of verbal and visual stuff is still "off" and her short term memory is terrible. As she told us, "I do my homework and take notes. I study hard. But I can study 24/7 and when I take the test I'm still not going to remember half the stuff I have to cram into my brain. I NEED my note."

    This is born out by this example: Daughter turned in every single homework assignment for World History and got all A's and B's on them. Daughter was seen refining and studying her notes in her study halls. She was not misbehaving or slacking off. But she failed two huge World History tests. On one of those tests, she only got three answers right out of fifty questions, although NOBODY argues that she tried hard. I'd say something is wrong there. On top of that, this is a very hard teacher. He gave her an F for the semester (at that time...she has raised it to a D). Because of her previous F in World History, she had to sit out her team's lat volleyball game and everyone knew why. Fortunately, she has a strong support system of good friends and is well liked. Nobody teased her. But SHE feels bad about herself and she was very embarassed and saddened to sit out that volleyball game. They had won the conference and were going to have a party afterward and she couldn't go to that either.
  20. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    That is sad.

    My son's difficulties include audio and visual processing and memorization, too, although his might not be as severe as your daughter's. One thing that helped him immensely was making his own flash cards to study by. I've heard that the reason this works so well with some kids is because as they make them themselves, they process the info differently than audio and just visual. IOW, it's the making the cards that is the most helpful, studying them somehow "jogs" their memory of making them and they retain the info better. I don't know if your daughter has tried this method- she might have because it's pretty common- but if not, it might be worth a shot.

    My son started 9th grade getting C's & D's in World History and D's and F's on Span. tests even though he would get A's on assignments and studied. The flash cards had him making A's within 2 weeks. That was a Department of Juvenile Justice school so you can bet, there was no way to cheat on tests and although at first I thought maybe they just handed out grades too easily, as it turned out, my son was ahead of other students when he went back to mainstream.