I'm struggling with hate

[MissJuneBug]

But my son is my first priority. I have to protect my relationship with him like the delicate egg that it is. He is not emotionally stable. In the past few months he has trusted me enough to get him the help that he needs to stay alive. I must proceed with the utmost caution.

I understand the struggle you are having.... it's not easy to be in this situation.

Do you think she is having sex with Ferb or other students or is it just a way for her to feel young again? Do you think she leads them on and Ferb will get his heart broken?

I agree if he pays for his phone, he has a right to privacy. AND he is 18. 18 year olds don't have the best judgement but we learn through our life experiences, both good and bad.... especially the bad.

I learned a lesson that hard way last year. My son had been confiding in me some of his issues (including addiction to porn). He even told me the name of the website he goes to for recovery support from this.

I was very surprised he would confide in me this way and felt we were getting closer. Like a dummy, I told my husband because I have committed to being open with him regarding our son. Well, husband walked in one night during a bad episode I was having with son who had been drinking and said, without preamble, "what's this I heard about you being addicted to porn?"

I saw immediately that son felt I had betrayed him. He has not confided in me since and has shut down in a big way. I was establishing a relationship with him and making inroads and then I blew it. This seems to have been the start of the latest downaward spiral. I just can't seem to reconnect with him. I'm very sorry I opened my mouth. I was operating under the assumption that husband had a right to know everything and would use good judgement with the information but son was operating under the assumption that I wouldn't break his confidence. I cannot tell you how much I regret doing that. Trust can be hard to re-earn from both sides of the parent - child relationship.

So, I totally get where you are coming from.....

 

[Copabanana]

I do realize that she will never be able to allow one of her own children to attend any school anywhere.

pigless. What do you mean by this?

 

[pigless in VA]

Because she will never be able to trust that other teachers will not be inappropriate with her children.

It's like the people who cheat in relationships can never trust anyone not to cheat on them.

Thanks, June.

I doubt that Ferb will get his heart broken. I think on some level he knows that a married woman who cheats on her husband is not a woman to really be in a relationship with. I think he is young and short. Have I ever even mentioned that before? He is not a tall kid, and very slight. He's never had a girlfriend. I think this skank showed him attention, and he lept at the opportunity. I think he probably knows there are other kids sleeping with her. Yes, I am giving him condoms. It was the only thing I could think of to do that might be helpful.

I am somewhat concerned about how he will cope when everything ends. I hope he decides to go to a the college far away from her.

 

[Copabanana]

Do you think she is having sex with Ferb or other students or is it just a way for her to feel young again? Do you think she leads them on and Ferb will get his heart broken?

These are very good questions, Miss June Bug. I had not gotten past my own abhorrence and rage...and the idea she needs to be stopped. To be honest I could see Ferb's motivation...and did not hold in my head long enough the damage that could be done.

You know I worked with male prisoners for many years. Many of these men were lifers. I always had to remind myself to not soak in their care or admiration...personally...and it was hard. Because the feelings I felt from them were intense and they were gratifying. I felt special and cared for. I felt unique. I felt a kind of power that I did not feel any other place. I always worked hard to not respond personally, either to feel it was personal about me, or to believe that there was anything personal between us besides my work. I set clear and firm boundaries, which I rigorously protected. But sometimes there was a relationship between two equals. I do not mean an improper one. I mean, a human relationship. When somebody was dying, for example.

The last time I did this work I quit after 3 months. I had changed. I could not and would not allow myself to feel anything good about myself...in this kind of unequal relationship.

I guess what I am saying is that I am not rationalizing what she is doing, not one bit. But on some level it does not matter what are her motivations. Her actions are wrong. People are motivated to do all kinds of things. But they do not. At the end of the day, they do not. This woman does not seem to be taking responsibility in any which way to limit either her voracious appetites. This is what makes her a predator. The rest of us may have desire, but we understand that what is offered or available is not there for our taking.

then I blew it

I do not think the fault is yours. I think your son knew you would have told his father, and he inadvertently set you up. The only thing I can see that you could have done differently is to have gone to Son and told him: I told your father. Or in the moment, I have to share this with your father. To have kept it from your husband would have been a triangulation which could have caused more damage to the family.

I was operating under the assumption that husband had a right to know everything and would use good judgement with the information but son was operating under the assumption that I wouldn't break his confidence.

I see that, but is it reasonable?

I am curious to know what others think because I think you were in an impossibly difficult place. I do not see how you could have kept something so important secret from your husband.

 

[Copabanana]

Have I ever even mentioned that before? He is not a tall kid, and very slight.

How tall is he and how much more or less does he weigh? I want to visualize him. M is only 5'5". He says he is 5'6" (like me) but he is not. He must have shrunk. And he is slight too. When I met him I think he weighed less than 120. Now he is 130. His feet are smaller than mine by .5 size.

Now that I got heavy I weigh almost 40 pounds more than he does.

I am saying all of this because M seems to me like the most macho guy. He was preyed on by older women too when he was younger than Ferb. I still hate this woman, but I can really see Ferb's point of view and how it needs to be protected. That you are protecting him, but watching on the sidelines.

All of your reasoning about Ferb make so much sense. He sounds like he is doing good. It sounds like you have faith in his judgement and instincts, pigless.

 

[pigless in VA]

June, I've broken confidences with SO and kept secrets about Ferb from SO. Either way, someone gets angry with me. That could actually be the reason Ferb is not confiding in me right now. He may mistakenly believe that SO would be furious with him for this affair. I am the one who is furious, but not at Ferb. I am furious at this adult in a position of trust and authority with young adults who is instead preying on them.

Copa, it is all about her. Raising her self-esteem. Teaching (cough, cough) the boys about something important. Let's just hope that her goal is not getting pregnant. It occurred to me that might be the goal.

Ferb is about 5'3" and about 100 pounds. He appears to be much younger than he actually is. He has an incredibly quick wit and mind. I don't think I posted that he was in a variety show at school. Mrs. X was the sponsor. Ferb did a bang up job. He was in several skits and possessed a stage presence that was so incredibly smooth. The boy can act. He told me later he was most proud of all the jokes he had written for the show. It was a great experience for him, and I could tell he had fun doing it.

Copa, will you please talk to M for me? Ask him to weigh in. I know that I didn't feel preyed upon by the older men. I felt flattered and empowered by their attention. When I was 17, I had a steady "boyfriend" who was 25 with a 5 year old son. I also "dated" a man who was 33 years old. I didn't understand fully how lopsided the relationships were until I hit the age of 25 and 33. An 18 year old cannot comprehend the disparity in a relationship with an older adult.

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

She games with them online and gets to know them. She is approximately 30 years old.

Why then pigless could you not speak to the principal about teachers ~ not one specific teacher, but any teacher ~ and the ethical questions implicit to online gaming with students over whom she holds the power of a grade. Is it not true that the players in these games are usually unknown to one another? A little like here in CD, where we know one another but not in our day to day lives? How did the kids find out they were gaming with their teacher...did she tell them?

This is just wrong on so many levels, pigless.

I also know on some deep level that if I act on this, that I may sever my relationship with Ferb completely. He thinks he knows what he is doing.

Then though it doesn't feel like you are protecting your son, in reality you are. You are walking beside him. You know the situation and its dangers and you will be there for your son through the time of its ending. Ferb is eighteen, pigless. As far as he knows, he does know what he is doing. Could you practice detaching from the hatred you feel for this reprehensible piece of rottenness teacher, do you think? You know why you aren't blasting the rotten thing out of the water. So, until something changes and you decide to act, working to detach from the feeling of hatred makes sense to me. It's like, a survival mechanism. Given your description of the "teacher" (What ever happened to the days when teachers were respectable and even a little dowdy?!?) taking food from your table (!) and treating the mother of one of her student's so casually...I wonder whether this teacher who is crossing moral lines with her students isn't also enjoying watching their parents squirm. What an awkward situation for all of your family to have been placed in through a teacher's inappropriate behaviors. It's mind boggling. This whole thing is wrong. It's because we entrust them with our children that the moral standards of the teacher must be beyond reproach. This should not be happening, whether she is actually toying with her students physically or not. Support Ferb as best you can now. Gather evidence. Do research. Present your suspicions to Social Services this summer so an investigation can be conducted. You will be helping clarify a line that needs to be drawn between all students and their teachers. In addition to whether there is physical sexual interplay or not, this teacher has crossed a line affecting the way the families of her students function. Children should not be forced into situations where they are protecting their teachers from appropriate parental response to the actions the teacher is taking. What in the world, pigless. It is difficult enough to raise children without having our relationships to our children subverted by their teachers. I can't imagine what she was thinking to have taken food from your table without asking. Subtle alliance with your children and against you, right?

I am glad you posted about it pigless. At least you aren't alone with it anymore.

What a nasty excuse for a teacher.

Cedar

 

[pasajes4]

Pigless, I understand your concern about your relationship with Ferb being damaged by bringing this to the attention of the administration. Which would be more damaging to Ferb, letting this situation continue and it ending badly ( I personally do not see it having a fairytale ending) with Ferb possibly becoming suicidal, or having a bump in your relationship.

I believe that you could alert the powers that be in a way that he would not know it was you. A letter to the superintendent from a concerned member of the community outlining your observations. You could state that you do not wish to identify yourself to avoid any possible retaliation.

 

[BusynMember]

I was thinking of a letter too.

 

[Nomad]

I would consider telling the principal. But, if that is not something you wish to do....you might consider an anonymous letter. Recognizing you are in a difficult position, this might be the way to start the ball rolling. You can write it in such a way, that it doesn't seem like you. This is not exactly my cup of tea, but it might end up working in your favor. You can say you are an adult affiliated with the community that has observed something inappropriate between Mrs. X and a male student in the x grade....maybe identify a particular classroom....trying to narrow in to your son, without saying his name. You have observed this student and the teacher together in certain areas. You can say that chances are teachers, parents and people in the community are aware of this and you are hoping that someone will come forward...you can write it to the principal and maybe the superintendent and ask them to please make inquiries. If you do this, and it comes to something, I would never tell anyone. Just something to consider. If this doesn't work, again, I would seriously consider speaking up. What an awful situation. I would very likely hate her as well. This is horrible.

 

[mof]

Mrs X may have more interest than just Fern.

She is slime for sure.

Can you not be an anonymous whistle blower, maybe have someone pose on the gAmes she plays? I would be allover that computer...what about others who are even younger??? Either way, it's gonna end badly.

 

[Copabanana]

Teaching (cough, cough) the boys about something important.

You are talking here about how this witch thinks she is teaching the guys something important about life.

pigless. You know I was a psychologist in prisons. The last time I worked (last summer) one of my patients who was in prison for incest told me that he believed at the time that he was enriching his daughter's experience by teaching her about sex. He thought he was imminently qualified to impart this gift to her. And that it was a "special" thing. She was maybe between 10 and 14.

When M gets back, I will ask him, but I think I know what he will say. (Let's see if I am right.)

First, I will say this: M knows that he was sexually abused. He knows he was violated. He knows that his innocence was taken from him. He feels grossed out in retrospect by this woman. He has told me several times, and each time he speaks about it with repugnance. He does not at all feel he gained anything.

Except.

Mexico is a very macho culture and it is a violent culture, if you ask me. Sweetness and gentleness are beaten out of boys and men, if you ask me. M became a very, very dominant male. (To the point it has been problematic, but he is trying very hard to walk it back...) Any vulnerability in M was completely beaten out of him by the time I think he was Ferb's age.

What I am trying to say is I believe he will give a hard ass answer. I think he will give a macho answer. And to the extent he answers from this place, I think he answers from the broken part of him...that is calloused due to hard, hard knocks.

M is in his early 60's. I believe with me is the first time that he has manifested his innate sweetness in all of his adult life. M is a very sweet, compassionate and kind man. But he is hard. I do not believe that M is capable of answering the question about Ferb, from a place in him that is not hard. Isn't that sad?

Now how does this relate to Ferb? In a sense I think this is what some of us fear for Ferb. That he become calloused because people like this woman use him. Or like in M's case, have his sweetness and vulnerability rubbed out by hard knocks. I agree with mof. If this is what is going on, it will not end well for Ferb. This woman is twisted.

I am remembering the story now. M's father (and mother, I think) did go to the woman and denounce her. It may not have been about M, but his brother, a year or two older. My g-d. There must have been dozens of kids. I think the older brother (maybe 14) at the time, also set her up in some way so she was humiliated and exposed. She was a neighbor not a teacher.

But I will ask him.

I became the kind of young woman who did go after scalps. But it was with men who were my own age or somewhat older. I regret it. I was a stupid and insecure woman who could not tolerate intimacy. I do not think I was hurt by it, because I was so defended. I was hardly even present. Sad, this makes me to think about this.

 

[Copabanana]

When M gets back, I will ask him

M was quite interested in the problem and gave a nuanced reply which I will quickly summarize and try to get back to you tomorrow if I do not get to it all. I am deliberately trying to not editorialize on what he said.

First, he does not think you should leap to go to the authorities.

Second, he thinks you need to talk to Ferb, to open dialog only.

Third, he thinks that Ferb has a lot of confidence in himself (and the possibility of the affair reinforces that idea) and he does think that Ferb has grown stronger and more capable and wiser due to what he has experienced and what he has suffered. He does not have the sense that Ferb is particularly vulnerable. He also has the sense about Ferb that he is mature (??) that he does not have about my son who is 10 years older.

Fourth, it makes a huge difference to him, if this woman is involved with a series of kids. He did not like this at all and did not rule out at all involving the authorities.

Fifth, to him it all centers on Ferb, how he is holding this relationship, if there is one. Does he feel "in love" or does he feel that he is using her, too. He sees the conversation between you two as you giving Ferb the opportunity to talk to you, to ask questions, to express what he needs to. And does not involve you asking questions or making any demands.

Sixth, he does not see anything out of the ordinary about the age difference. He said it is normal for older women to be attracted to younger men, and older men to younger women, and it is no biggie. Nor did he respond much to the idea of the role transgression. While I did not ask him specifically, he did not express the idea that this was abuse. More it was the sense that the teacher has personal problems. The concern he had was more that Ferb could talk about the situation with you so as to air the circumstances, his worries, his questions...so that he is not alone with it.

He says the woman is probably unhappy in her marriage and with herself, and has problems.

He really, really did not like the idea that she might be involved with multiple students. He said it all hinges on what Ferb says, and how he feels, where you should go next with this. He very much respected the idea that you stay in synch with Ferb.

Actually, I do kind of agree with him.

Oh. I forgot. I told him about Ferb's size and this is what he said: What does that have to do with anything? What importance could it have? Why would his stature affect anything? Least of all his confidence in himself. If he is involved with this teacher, he is demonstrating a great deal of self-assurance.

It quickly devolved from there, with him assuming that I was the one who put forth such a stupid idea.

I am wondering if he identifies with Ferb.

 

[pigless in VA]

Thanks, Copa. Ferb exhibits a lot of bravado. He has alluded to this tryst many times in conversation. "There are things you don't know about me, Mom." "You don't know everything about me." "There are things you don't want to know about me."

He says the woman is probably unhappy in her marriage and with herself, and has problems.

Serious problems.

Ferb is talking to my brother, Randy, about all of this. Randy is not breaking his confidence by confirming my strong suspicions. He keeps telling me that Ferb is wrestling with adult problems. He is also discussing his issues with his therapist. I have the utmost confidence in both of those men. I don't think Ferb is ready to talk about any of this with me. I think as much as it pains me, that I have to allow him this space.

Could you practice detaching from the hatred you feel for this reprehensible piece of rottenness teacher, do you think?

I will try. It's not like my hatred for her is serving any useful purpose.

 

[Copabanana]

Ferb is talking

with his therapist.

my brother, Randy

I have to allow him this space.

Good. To all of this.

 

[susiestar]

I have to say that I agree with M on the size bit. One of the most confident guys I ever met was only 5'7". He was literally the most confident, self assured guy in any room. Not false bravado, not fake, just self confident. I knew him for years and saw him date girls/women of all sizes/heights/shapes. Height and confidence are not mutually exclusive.

I hope that this teacher is taken down hard. I think she is rotten to the core and is doing far more than anyone suspects. Mom gut is rarely wrong.

I do think that this relationship is completely unequal and damaging. I think that Pigless has to be on the sidelines though until Ferb comes to her because her relationship with Ferb MUST be her top priority.

 

[BloodiedButUnbowed]

Even though Ferb may be a legal adult and therefore, not a victim of statutory rape, the other teenage boys she's "initiating" may be underage. I would report this situation to the police. No way this would ever be traced back to you. I am sure there are many other angry "mama bears" waiting to sink their claws into this woman's throat.