Is this your first time......

[beebz]

to say such a thing in a better life would be: is this your first time zip-lining? is this your first time at Disney? is this your first grandchild? is this your first broken bone? is this your first time skydiving?
But nooooooooo, last night my words were "is this your first time here" - jail?

I had my "first" last night.
I decided to go visit the "felon" (dear god help me). It was my first sneeze guard that wasn't buffet related. Talking to my son through glass, on a phone, hooked to a wall.
I went because I wanted to, period. I wanted to know what the "F" he did. He doesn't even comprehend what he did but he DID ask me dozens of times to bail him out. He begged me to bail him out like it was a matter of life and death (as expected). I have the money, but, I just wanted to tell him that he better beg with every cell in his soul for his public appointed attorney to let him be forced into a long term program as his sentencing, otherwise he is going to go to a bad bad place. Part of me, the mom in me, wants to bail him out but I know his plan would be suicide or jumping bail.
When he was certain I wouldn't bail him out he got angry and said "then why are you here" - he already knows I make every move in life with "love" so it was a rhetorical query. Then he actually hung up on me. For the love of God and all thing sacred! It is not an unusual behavior as every single one of you reading this already knows. I remember walking out saying out loud in front of a whole room of people, "yep, this is my F _ _ _ _ _ g thanks. Got in my car, and had no right being on the road. I was putting my blinker on to turn right when there wasn't even a right road there ! Just so foggy. Just so much pain. When I got home he called me twice, the whole collect puzzle from jail that I don't want to put together. He squeezed in comments as the operator was instructing me which buttons to push. Once he said "mom I'm innocent" - then the second time I didn't quite catch it but it was sounded like "i'll take the girls forever" . Whatever. Earlier in the conversation I asked him (when he kept begging me to bail him out) if he had a job. He said yeah, painting with so and so. I grimaced. He said "call him call him - he's a good guy" blah blah blah- I don't give a rats arse, its an under the table bullcrap job with no future and no benefits for the children. Unless you are the owner of a successful contractors business and take life seriously then your painting on the side is worthless to me. So yeah, my "is this your first time".

Hubbs just took the girls to see Frozen and I was excited to stay home and come here and write ! Can you believe that? I don't want to get dressed, do my hair, play with make-up and make a "real" appointment at the psychologist's office when I can come here and get what I need. I can flood out my feelings, emotion, tears, and the like, to a group of people who have got to be the most compassionate people on the planet. "us" , yes, us. I would rather come here. Those psychologists appointments can not do for me what I need. I like to come here and let it all out - I like being alone in my recliner. I like the replies for as silly as that sounds, your words, your encouragement, your compassion, your knowledge, your experience, your truth. I just tend to get my "fix" in more realistic places like this. It really helps me to type and know that you are truly listening and thinking of me because you have "been there" and a 2:15 appointment in a Dr's office can no way give me what I get here. So again, thank you, god is watching you, and I sure hope those of us who've had to suffer from birthing babies that had to grow up with this illness, this disease, this heartache, are privy to a special dwelling, bouncy house, condo, in heaven for some of the worst suffering I think a parent can go through.

 

[Blindsided]

to say such a thing in a better life would be: is this your first time zip-lining? is this your first time at Disney? is this your first grandchild? is this your first broken bone? is this your first time skydiving?
But nooooooooo, last night my words were "is this your first time here" - jail?

I had my "first" last night.
I decided to go visit the "felon" (dear god help me). It was my first sneeze guard that wasn't buffet related. Talking to my son through glass, on a phone, hooked to a wall.
I went because I wanted to, period. I wanted to know what the "F" he did. He doesn't even comprehend what he did but he DID ask me dozens of times to bail him out. He begged me to bail him out like it was a matter of life and death (as expected). I have the money, but, I just wanted to tell him that he better beg with every cell in his soul for his public appointed attorney to let him be forced into a long term program as his sentencing, otherwise he is going to go to a bad bad place. Part of me, the mom in me, wants to bail him out but I know his plan would be suicide or jumping bail.
When he was certain I wouldn't bail him out he got angry and said "then why are you here" - he already knows I make every move in life with "love" so it was a rhetorical query. Then he actually hung up on me. For the love of God and all thing sacred! It is not an unusual behavior as every single one of you reading this already knows. I remember walking out saying out loud in front of a whole room of people, "yep, this is my F _ _ _ _ _ g thanks. Got in my car, and had no right being on the road. I was putting my blinker on to turn right when there wasn't even a right road there ! Just so foggy. Just so much pain. When I got home he called me twice, the whole collect puzzle from jail that I don't want to put together. He squeezed in comments as the operator was instructing me which buttons to push. Once he said "mom I'm innocent" - then the second time I didn't quite catch it but it was sounded like "i'll take the girls forever" . Whatever. Earlier in the conversation I asked him (when he kept begging me to bail him out) if he had a job. He said yeah, painting with so and so. I grimaced. He said "call him call him - he's a good guy" blah blah blah- I don't give a rats arse, its an under the table bullcrap job with no future and no benefits for the children. Unless you are the owner of a successful contractors business and take life seriously then your painting on the side is worthless to me. So yeah, my "is this your first time".

Hubbs just took the girls to see Frozen and I was excited to stay home and come here and write ! Can you believe that? I don't want to get dressed, do my hair, play with make-up and make a "real" appointment at the psychologist's office when I can come here and get what I need. I can flood out my feelings, emotion, tears, and the like, to a group of people who have got to be the most compassionate people on the planet. "us" , yes, us. I would rather come here. Those psychologists appointments can not do for me what I need. I like to come here and let it all out - I like being alone in my recliner. I like the replies for as silly as that sounds, your words, your encouragement, your compassion, your knowledge, your experience, your truth. I just tend to get my "fix" in more realistic places like this. It really helps me to type and know that you are truly listening and thinking of me because you have "been there" and a 2:15 appointment in a Dr's office can no way give me what I get here. So again, thank you, god is watching you, and I sure hope those of us who've had to suffer from birthing babies that had to grow up with this illness, this disease, this heartache, are privy to a special dwelling, bouncy house, condo, in heaven for some of the worst suffering I think a parent can go through.

There are so many times I work through my own issues by posting, knowing the replies will be supportive. Why? Because they come from people who know exactly what my feelings are. I also learn a great deal about myself in my replies to others. When I get an agree, like, even a Gold Medal here and there, I am reminded how far I have come. I learn that I am growing in my ability to disentangle. I can see how important it is to my well-being to tackle a situation with resolve, truth, and logic, to let go of the emotional cesspool that will intrude if I let it. I am reminded I have choices. The choice is about the journey. The outcome will not change, because that's not up to me, it's up to my Difficult Child daughter.

Baby steps forward. Grateful to you and all who share here.

"For everyone, well-being is a journey… The secret is committing to that journey and taking those first steps with hope and belief in yourself."

~Deepak Chopra

 

[Overwhelmed1]

to say such a thing in a better life would be: is this your first time zip-lining? is this your first time at Disney? is this your first grandchild? is this your first broken bone? is this your first time skydiving?
But nooooooooo, last night my words were "is this your first time here" - jail?

I had my "first" last night.
I decided to go visit the "felon" (dear god help me). It was my first sneeze guard that wasn't buffet related. Talking to my son through glass, on a phone, hooked to a wall.
I went because I wanted to, period. I wanted to know what the "F" he did. He doesn't even comprehend what he did but he DID ask me dozens of times to bail him out. He begged me to bail him out like it was a matter of life and death (as expected). I have the money, but, I just wanted to tell him that he better beg with every cell in his soul for his public appointed attorney to let him be forced into a long term program as his sentencing, otherwise he is going to go to a bad bad place. Part of me, the mom in me, wants to bail him out but I know his plan would be suicide or jumping bail.
When he was certain I wouldn't bail him out he got angry and said "then why are you here" - he already knows I make every move in life with "love" so it was a rhetorical query. Then he actually hung up on me. For the love of God and all thing sacred! It is not an unusual behavior as every single one of you reading this already knows. I remember walking out saying out loud in front of a whole room of people, "yep, this is my F _ _ _ _ _ g thanks. Got in my car, and had no right being on the road. I was putting my blinker on to turn right when there wasn't even a right road there ! Just so foggy. Just so much pain. When I got home he called me twice, the whole collect puzzle from jail that I don't want to put together. He squeezed in comments as the operator was instructing me which buttons to push. Once he said "mom I'm innocent" - then the second time I didn't quite catch it but it was sounded like "i'll take the girls forever" . Whatever. Earlier in the conversation I asked him (when he kept begging me to bail him out) if he had a job. He said yeah, painting with so and so. I grimaced. He said "call him call him - he's a good guy" blah blah blah- I don't give a rats arse, its an under the table bullcrap job with no future and no benefits for the children. Unless you are the owner of a successful contractors business and take life seriously then your painting on the side is worthless to me. So yeah, my "is this your first time".

Hubbs just took the girls to see Frozen and I was excited to stay home and come here and write ! Can you believe that? I don't want to get dressed, do my hair, play with make-up and make a "real" appointment at the psychologist's office when I can come here and get what I need. I can flood out my feelings, emotion, tears, and the like, to a group of people who have got to be the most compassionate people on the planet. "us" , yes, us. I would rather come here. Those psychologists appointments can not do for me what I need. I like to come here and let it all out - I like being alone in my recliner. I like the replies for as silly as that sounds, your words, your encouragement, your compassion, your knowledge, your experience, your truth. I just tend to get my "fix" in more realistic places like this. It really helps me to type and know that you are truly listening and thinking of me because you have "been there" and a 2:15 appointment in a Dr's office can no way give me what I get here. So again, thank you, god is watching you, and I sure hope those of us who've had to suffer from birthing babies that had to grow up with this illness, this disease, this heartache, are privy to a special dwelling, bouncy house, condo, in heaven for some of the worst suffering I think a parent can go through.

Beebz you are strong. I feel the same way about this site and I have only been here less than a week.
I have never released so much to people I didn't know. There is still so much to my story but right now I am thinking about you and hoping you are doing better. Helping others sure helps me think of myself less.
Don't you wish you could just sit them down and have them watch what they are doing to themselves and others? Maybe then they would get it.
Sending you a huge warm hug. Feel better lady...
Peace and Love

 

[skittles]

beebz, i too have had that “is this your first time”, and “second” and “third”. Hopefully 3 times the charm, my son is 33 now and out of prison for 5 years with no recidivism, many felons simply seem to grow out of it eventually as they get older and hopefully more stable. as im sure youvsaw, most of them inside are young men, often no more than kids, each with a heartbroken mother. First time my son was a minor, i bailed him out which turned out to be a big mistake. I never did again. The last time he spent over a year in detention because i wouldnt bail him out, waiting for his court date before he went to prison for 4 more years. As much as he did his best to guilt trip me, i tell you that 5 years he was inside was so peaceful! Cheaper too since he wasnt always trying “borrow” money from me. He only got commissary money from me for Christmas and birthday so he had to get a job inside. He was quite far away, i visited once or twice a year. So all i can say is as hard as it is to watch our kids struggle, you know he has a roof over his head, hopefully some programs inside to help him. I found that my rescuing behaviours became so stressful for me that after i finished panicing and crying when i relized he would be gone for so long, the freedom of literally having all control and ability to rescue taken away from me was a life saver. For the first time the enforced distance meant I began to live my life more for me and less for him. I dont mean to minimize the hurt you must feel and the struggle your son is going through but maybe you can find this gives you a much needed break and distance too

 

[Deni D]

Beebz
Oh boy are you going through it right now. My vision is of you being on the roller coaster coming down a large hill with your stomach in your throat right now.

is this your first time

Or using our own special version of dark humor living in our strange alternate universe you could re-frame this experience as something you've crossed off your bucket list. Not that it was ever on that list to begin with, but gee look at what I've done, lol! I've crossed a few things my son has done off my bucket list, things which I would never have imagined would have been there.

My son is not on heroin, he is a drinking (nasty drinker), pot smoking, acid tripping, bipolar disordered, extremely verbally abusive person. My son is as sick as your son. But my son does not call me "mom", he calls me names no mother should ever hear. He does not admit to flaws and faults as your son does, he makes up confabulations of rewritten history that fit his victim narrative. I think day to day it's harder on moms who have adult children who see their short comings verses moms in my situation. I can feel how it pulls on your heartstrings so much more.

I hope he finds what he needs for himself where he is. I hope he gets to be sober long enough to absorb the notion he can do better for himself. I know heroin is terrible but then I also know of people do come out from the other side.

I also hope you get the time and distance to detach from him enough to be able to do for you. You have no control over him, no matter what he says to you, no matter how hard he tugs on your Momma heartstrings. You can't make him better, or be a better person for him. From just my personal point of view all you can do is to help yourself and at the same time only get out of his way.

I know you are just starting to work through all of this and with all of your responsibilities I so hope you find the time to take care of you.

 

[Crayola13]

A psychologist would recommend what you're already dling: Journaling your feelings and writing. It can help put things in perspective. It helps to get it out. It's been proven that Writing is very therapeutic.

I'm sorry about your son. Threatening to take the girls forever, especially after all you and your husband have done for them, is low. He should be eternally grateful that you're taking care of them and giving them some normalcy instead of them having to be in foster care. It's nice that they got to go to the movie. The girls are fortunate to have you.

 

[RN0441]

Sometimes I wonder if this site is even real and just us chosen ones were even able to find it....

 

[Chasejazz]

Sometimes I wonder if this site is even real and just us chosen ones were even able to find it....

My google search -- my finding this site, was born of pure desperation.
I never, in my wildest dreams, ever thought that I'd be in this situation when it came to my kids...to find them homeless, alienated, separated and so dysfunctional.
Being a mother was my biggest achievement, my biggest failure.
I'm glad to have found this room and all the people in it.

"If some lives form a perfect circle, others take shape in ways we cannot predict or always understand. Loss has been a part of my journey. But it has also shown me what is precious. So has love, for which I can only be grateful."
- Nicholas Sparks, Message in a Bottle

 

[JayPee]

Beebz

As much as you think you are receiving from this forum, you are equally giving back. Sharing the rawness of your emotions brings us all to a place of one-ness. We all share our hopes, dreams, hurts, pains and disappointments and oddly enough that is the point of the beginning for our healing.

We can’t get better until we acknowledge that which is broken and damaged. Most of us take a while to get there. We squash, run from, pretend, polish up our problems with adult children with issues until we finally reach our own bottom.
We scarily and wearily pull each leg out of the quicksand and grasp for air. Sometimes not sure we’ll get through it.

Then we come to this forum and meet up with other warriors. Some are better and some are struggling but the bond we all share is that which gives us strength, courage and wisdom. We know it’s possible to get better we just have to have faith and not fall back into thinking it’s easier to continue being the victim. Always remembering that we have to be the change first. If our kids to change and get better that’s a bonus but not a guarantee.

You’re a strong woman and I gain strength from you

 

[Overwhelmed1]

When I get anxious, scared or any number of other feeling I seem to resignate, I finally have a safe place to land. I too don't know how I found this site. Whenever I would search for a place like this I always got (living with a whatever kind of parent) as if parents were the cause of all the issues young adults dealt with.
I reread post trying to find solace and understanding of what is happening in this world with our children. It helps me tremendously.
I am working on not feeling sorry for myself, along with all the other negative thoughts I have of ME.. thanks to all the good references and videos people have shared I now have hope.
I have never met so many strong people. You are all amazing and deserve the best life has to offer.
If I sound to mushy on here, it's because I have so much empathy and Love for people. I suppose that is why I can't stop helping my children. I know how it feels to hurt and I can't stand to see anyone hurting. I always took the stance hurt me, I can take it as long as I know someone else is not hurting. I need to change that where my kids are concerned. I know I am not doing them any good.
My emotions are such a mess. I know this and need to work on them. Thank you all for being here.

Peace and Love

 

[skittles]

Did you read a suggestion yet for the book Stop caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist:How to End the Drama and Get on With Life? Im reading it currently, has a great synopsis of how these relationships develop. I always thought there was something wrong with me, i still do often, that im some kind of spineless doormat ; but reading makes it clear, people with alot of empathy for others like yourself are those most likely to become emeshed like this. Its not that something is wrong with us, its that borderline/narcissists are very adept at finding ways to take advantage of the empathy in others and who has more empathy for them than their own mothers? They know this and will abuse it. Being a caring person is a wonderful trait, but it means we have to be vigilant that our caring too much does not become pathological to ourselves or others. People cant grow if we take all their hurt away and our job as parents is to teach them to be independent, not insulate them from the pain and joys of life. “if you love something set it free...”

 

[Overwhelmed1]

Skittle your are correct. I feel this is what made me a bad mother to begin with. I should not have been so protective of their feelings. Now I have the responsibility of turning loose, something I should have done long ago. This lack of parenting after all put my kids in this place. How do I do this? This error in my judgement has hurt my family for a long time now. I just don't know how to repair all the damage I have done.

 

[skittles]

Overwhelmed
I didnt mean to imply its our fault as parents, we are so quick to blame ourselves. Our kids are adults and have responsibility for themselves. I have two children, same general environment, both diagnosed with add as kids, one also diagnosed conduct disordered, the second possibly on the autism spectrum. Through guilt i over parented both, tried everything, tutors, social skills programs, intervened in everything i could. But individual people make their own decisions. No matter how many times i “brought the horse to the water” my elder son would not drink. Skipped school, got in trouble, sold his add medications to buy what he really wanted, was homeless on and off, progressed to armed robbery, made 5 innocent children. My younger son in the other hand, drank deeply of that water. He is possibly on the spectrum but his obsession became computer coding and rockets. He has no real social life, but hes excelling in university. Even with his inability to connect with people, problems with communication (english was always his most difficult course) hes become respected at school in his field and i have no doubt that he will do fine without us. So they both made their own choices, what theyve done, what theyve made of their life they did themselves. If i was to take the blame for my older son becoming what he has, then i must also take the credit for my younger sons acheivements. I dont think thats fair to him, he did it, despite his disabilities, despite my overinvolvement, not me. They are both intelligent individuals, one chose to use his intelligence to manipulate and find the shortcuts in life, the other chose to find a niche he can function well in and succeed with hard work. Blaming yourself for ‘overparenting’ sounds like your kids convincing you its all your fault and refusing to take responsibility for themselves, hey if moms to blame, then let mom fix it, right? Theres so many kids out their with parents who ‘overparent’ its almost epidemic, im sure youve hear the term helicopter moms. Do all those kids become manipulators? No, again they make their own choices. You provided the tools, you loved them, perhaps too much. Is that worse than too little? Did you abuse them? Neglect them? Abandon them? Doesnt sound like it. Would they have succeeded in life if you loved too little? Not likely. Kids come from such a variety of environments. Some horrific, far far worse than what you think you did wrong, and they succeeded, many times excelled. Theyve come from extremely privalaged environments, were held to far less accountabilty than your kids were as they grew up extremely entitled. Did they all turn out to be manipulators. No, some are very fine successful people. My point is, blaming yourself is falling back into the pattern of fixing and blaming ie: i have to help my kids to fix the damage i caused. No, thats not the point . Try “My kids are grown now, i provided them the love and support they need as they grew, my job is done, its time to let go”

 

[Overwhelmed1]

Skittle, I am sorry. I didn't take that as an implication from you. Its what I see in me. I do blame myself because my kids blame me. I tried so hard to be a good mom. I was there for them, made them help around the house (chores), signed them up for sports they wanted to play, had their friends over our house because I knew they would be safe, didn't drink but on occasion and never in excess, always worked and discussed college with them, let them help me cook, had good holidays and the kids were happy and well behaved. Never in a millions years did I think they would turn out like this. I keep going back in my head, what could I have done differently. My kids tell me things I did that I have no recollection of. They have filled my head full of so many untruths that I can't remember even the good things we did. I am so lost.
I have found nothing but good caring people here and read each response in a good hearted way. I am trying to wrap my head around what I need to do and think. I am so looking forward to getting my head straight. Even as I write on here I am fearful that some how they will find my account and attack me mentally or physically. Stupid I know. No one I know knows I am here.
Please never feel like I take your words as anything but caring and helpful.

Peace and Love

 

[skittles]

Overwhelmed,
You have nothing to be sorry for to me ir your kids Im laughing because we are the people we are, we right away worry about offending each other and start apologizing. No wonder others that advantage of us so easily. lol Not a laughing matter i know but we have to have a sense of humour about it. I relate to what you said about the kids being generally happy growing up. I thought mine were too, but my older son particularly tells me all kinds nasty things that I don’t remember.Is it selective memory on my part or is it a manipulative memory on his. I choose to believe my version. I may not of been perfect but none of us are I did the best I could and I’m sure you did the best you could. I think the only thing we can truly be guilty of is loving too much. and I think they should be thankful that they’ve had such supportive and caring parents that have put up with so much BS from them. They got away with it when they were young but they’re adults now no matter what they think we did right or wrong , they have enough smarts to figure it out on their own now. they can’t blame us forever that’s just a cop out and excuse. but as long as were willing to blame ourselves they have no reason to let go of that excuse. Truly read the various books recommended here, the article on detachment in the forum here is particularly helpful and finding a good therapist can do wonders. I thought I was doing OK for the longest time, but my anxiety was getting so bad And I couldn’t even make plans for myself without worrying if my sons ex-girlfriend was going to need me for something for the kids. or I would make plans and then change everything to make excuses and lies to people so that I could run and do what she wanted. my anxiety progressed into depression at which point I finally realized I needed professional help. I spent only six months with a therapist as my medical plan wouldn’t cover anymore but that six months was such a lifesaver for me. I think the fact your here is a great step. We are all here because we relize we need help, thats the first step in fixing ourselves instead of someone else. Hopeful isnt it?

 

[Overwhelmed1]

You're a gem Skittles. Laughter is the best medicine. I find myself laughing at myself at times because I know I am so ridiculous in my thoughts.
I can't even begin to tell you how happy and excited I am for this place and the people in it.
It would be awesome if some day we could have a reunion to feast and hug. Of course we would all have to wear masks. LOL
I hold everyone in here dear to me and in my prayers.

Peace and Love

 

[Triedntrue]

Sounds like you two have really got a handle on things. The comments about your kids talking about things you have no recollection of resonates with me as well. I also felt like i provided a good home. Prayers to all .

 

[JMom]

Sometimes I wonder if this site is even real and just us chosen ones were even able to find it....

I literally googled "I bought a tent for my kid today, who does that?" and that is how I found this forum. It was crazy!

 

[skittles]

I literally googled "I bought a tent for my kid today, who does that?" and that is how I found this forum. It was crazy!

I gave one to my son years ago too, so maybe not so crazyI used to keep a rubbermaid deck box in my backyard too that i put a can opener, sometimes some food in etc when he was homeless. Hed come by and get stuff out of it now and then, so i knew he was alive even if i didnt talk to him.

 

[Triedntrue]

When homelessness was imminent for my son he told me i have to buy him a tent. He worked it out though and found a place. The bin in the backyard sounds like a good compromise but with my son we don't encourage him to come here. He is in jail right now and as harsh as it sounds he is warm and fed. He is trying once again to get me to figure out where he is going to live and how when he gets out. But enough. I am trying to hold strong.