It's me again, pondering stuff & a question

[Stacy G.]

Hello again, are y'all getting tired of me yet? I guess I'm just thrilled to find this board because for so many years I thought I was the only one with a 'difficult' child. Whenever I would do an Internet search for troubled kids I would come up with forums with people asking if their 13 yr old should be allowed to wear a thong or whatnot. Guess I wasn't using the right search words?

Anyway...

husband ended up taking difficult child to work with him today because father in law has not come home yet. That was a relief to me, didn't have to worry about him. We have a large bonus room upstairs & that is where Adam's room is, when he failed this last drug test we decided that we were going to move him downstairs so that he wouldn't have so much privacy. Want him to know he's being watched. :smirk: husband & I have been working so much we have not had a chance to get to it yet so Kayla took it upon herself to clean it out today since she will be moving up there. Let me tell ya, that boy is DISGUSTING!!! The carpet is completely ruined, stuff on it I cannot even identify. I've never seen so many holes in walls in my life, little tiny pinholes & bigger who knows what holes. Adam has always been such a destructive kid, the only room in this house that he has not damaged something major in it is mine & husband's bed/bathroom. :crazy:

Does anybody else's difficult child seem to take delite in destroying property? :hammer:

Ok, so here's my question. I told y'all in my post from yesterday about Adam starting group counseling classes & me having a call into a psycologist. I got the call from the psycologist today & made an appointment but after talking to husband I am confused. He's a little weary of Adam going to both for 2 reasons. One being the money, insurance pays for the psycologist after a $40 co-pay but the counseling center charges based upon your income & we have to pay 100% since we do not qualify, that's $64. Both of these would be weekly. The other reason being that husband thinks that it would possibly be overwhelming to Adam, that he would get mad about going to both & not listen to either just to spite us. I just don't know. Paying that much money every week would be a strain on us on top of the parole fees but if we cut out some stuff maybe it would be doable. I certainly don't want to make Adam so angry that he resists any help we are trying to give him. Gaaaahhhh! I'm so confused! :frown: :confused: :frown:

So what would you do? Group counseling or psycologist or both? If you could only do one which one would you pick?

Thanks once again for all of y'alls advice. Please don't vote me off the island for so many questions. :grin:

 

[Mikey]

Hi Stacy. I'm "new" here, so YMMV with anything I suggest. But....

My somewhat humble opinion is that both may be needed. I've found that psychs and counsellors fill two different needs: psychs deal with the illness, which is vitally important. Counsellors (in my case a Licensed Clinical Social Worker (LCSW)) help both me and my difficult child work through life lessons, deal with issues we face, and basically help us help ourselves through listening, observation, coaching, and dialog.

Two sides of the same coin, at least for us. I wouldn't presume to tell you what to do, but for me and mine both types of help are needed. Now, actually going is another matter. I go to both, but my son will only go see his "shrink" (i.e. his counsellor). Won't go to psychiatric any more, won't take his ADD medications, and won't even consider that such a person could possibly help him. But if I could get him to go, I'd find a way to pay for it.

Again, for me/us, having the counsellor and the psychiatric work together is the best possible solution.

I don't know if this helps, and I couldn't even begin to suggest which one would be better for your son. Maybe try both for a time? Or, start with the psychiatric, get an accurate diagnosis (and Rx), then get the psychiatric to set up a treatment plan with the counselling center? There may be other creative ways to not do both as well.

That's just my two pennies worth, but I sincerely hope you find a solution that works best for you and yours.

Mikey

 

[kris]

<span style='font-size: 14pt'> <span style='font-family: Georgia'> <span style="color: #3333FF"> ...but you're not talking about making a choice between a psychiatrist & a therapist are you? you're talking about a choice between individual counselling & group counselling.

tough call. that's a lot of money to be putting into this every week. are both counselors court mandated or have you found them both on your own?? do you think difficult child will be cooperative with-participating in both/either? kids this age are usually quite reluctant to see one therapist never mind two. if you have to narrow it down to one i'd pick the one he's most likely to cooperate with.

as for the wholes in the walls of his room & the ruined carpeting. a woman wha was here years ago had a son wo ruined the walls all the time. once weekend she made him help with-all the patchwork & painting. the minute everything was all dry & pretty she took a hammer, bashed it all in & made him fix it again. she said he stopped doing it. just putting it into the universe. if he gets an allowance i'd assess him part of the carpet replacemnt too.

kris </span> </span> </span>

 

[KFld]

Your sons room sounds just like mine!! Our son hasn't lived home for almost 2 years now and is currently living in a soberhouse, but last month we went in and recarpeted and painted his old room. It was absoluteley disgusting. Many holes to patch, had to cover the once beautiful hardwood floor with carpeting because it was beyond repair.

A couple weeks ago I brought him home and went up to his room and I couldn't believe how spotless it was. Everything was in it's place, the bed was made, clothes were hung up. I was totally amazed. I know they have to keep their rooms somewhat clean as a rule of the house, but even cabinets that nobody could see in were organized beyond belief. His room wasn't just cleaned to the point it needed to be, but it was way beyond that. If he actually had money, I would think he paid someone to clean it.

Maybe it's the difference between a kid who's using his room as a hangout drug room and a kid who now is paying his own rent, 6 months clean and his stuff is his responsibility and nobody elses. I worried for a long time that my always picking up after him taught him not to be able to do it himself, but I guess he learned it somewhere :smile: Hopefully from all the other rooms in our house besides his always being clean!

Believe me, if my son can have a spotless room, any kid on this planet can learn to do it.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Stacy G.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I certainly don't want to make Adam so angry that he resists any help we are trying to give him.</div></div>Hi Stacy, I think that's the trap that difficult child's use to manipulate us: here we are worrying about us making them angry when it is them that created the situation to begin with. Don't fall for it.<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Please don't vote me off the island for so many questions. :grin: </div></div>Never!

 

[Mikey]

KFld, re: <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Maybe it's the difference between a kid who's using his room as a hangout drug room and a kid who now is paying his own rent, 6 months clean and his stuff is his responsibility and nobody elses. I worried for a long time that my always picking up after him taught him not to be able to do it himself, but I guess he learned it somewhere..</div></div>

Maybe, maybe not. I've noticed that kids (myself included when I was my son's age) don't value or respect anything that's "theirs". Things in your own home tend to become part of the background scenery - they get trampled on and used up without a moment's thought or hesitation.

In my case, I was a slob AND a difficult child, but there wasn't much my alcoholic single-mom could do. And it wasn't until after I left for the Navy Reserve, and came back after a year, that I saw my house and my room for what it really was - a wonderful place to live that my mother worked very hard to provide.

I had to get away from it - and then come back to it - to value it enough to take care of it. From that point on until I left for good, I always took care of my room, and the rest of the house (as much as I could). And it wasn't the Navy whipping me into shape, either, because my brother had the same epiphany after moving out - then moving back in 18 months later to go back to school.

Since then, I have lots of friends with "good" kids (well, maybe not all that good, but not difficult child's either) who have the same problem. Slob kids who do nothing around the house to help, and don't seem to value anything IN the house or that their parents provide.

Overall, I think this may be a teenager/kid thing, not a difficult child thing (although being a difficult child may make it worse, including the damage done).

Mikey

 

[Mikey]

PS: re: <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Overall, I think this may be a teenager/kid thing, not a difficult child thing (although being a difficult child may make it worse, including the damage done).</div></div>

That's also why we're going so slow on letting our difficult child move to the basement - trying to structure the move so that his perspective is different, i.e. it isn't something he's entitled to, it's something he's earned, and has to work to keep.

Still not there on how to make that happen, but hoepfully therapist and I and wife will have something worked out so he can move in by the summer.

Mikey

 

[Stacy G.]

Thanks for the advice y'all. Sorry I didn't reply sooner, it's been a bit crazy around here lately. They were out on spring break last week & between work & the kids being home I have not had a chance to get back to y'all. I have been reading every day though, just don't want difficult child to see me typing & ask what I'm doing.

So if y'all remember Adam is on 30 days house arrest (I did tell y'all that right?) so there has not been a break from him until this week. Boy, is that kid tiring! :surprise:

His dad bought a new Mustang this past weekend so Adam has been spending a lot of time with him on that, he seems quite excited about it. Too bad since I can't see him driving for a VERY LONG TIME. There is no way at this point in his life that I will even entertain the thought of letting that boy get a liscense, good grief I would go grey within a week from worry! :crazy:

Adam went to his first counseling class yesterday, he didn't seem too thrilled with it. I asked him what went on & he said for the first hour they just sat there not even talking & the second hour the counselor talked about how he did drugs when he was younger. ???? I would imagine Adam's description is probably different from what really happened but that was his perception.

husband let Adam have a friend over yesterday (not one of his banned friends but still not one I'm crazy about). They were in Adam's room & I went to open the door to check on them & the door was locked, I told him to open the door. His friend was sitting at the end of the bed playing a video game & Adam was sitting on the side kinda looking guilty. I said "What are you doing Adam?" Nothing. Yeah, right. I told him to move & what did I find but a socket that he has covered with tinfoil with tiny little holes poked in it & some kind of tube thing. Of course I was furious, sent friend home & husband came in to see what was up. Really, all I remember saying was what is wrong with you? I was just so dang disgusted. husband talked to him, told him about failing another drug test & what was going to happen to which Adam's reply was he knew. He might know but apparently he doesn't care. :cry:

So friend is now banned from the house, I might not can control who Adam hangs around with but by gosh I CAN control who comes in my house! I'm going to give it another couple of weeks with the counselor & if it doesn't seem to do anything go ahead & make the appointment with- the psychiatrist. husband keeps telling me that Adam will not change until he WANTS to change & I know that but I can't just sit around & do nothing waiting on that to happen, he's only 15 for goodness sakes!

Anyway, just wanted to give a little (little? :laugh: ) update & thank y'all again for being there for me. I know it seems I only post questions but I just don't feel I'm in any position to give anyone else advice right now. God willing, that will come soon!

 

[KFld]

You are absolutley right that you have a choice of who is allowed in your home. Good for you! and no I don't think you mentioned he was on house arrest. Is that a worse punishment for him or you??? So he's on house arrest, being drug tested, and doing drugs in his own bedroom. Doesn't sound to me like he much cares about getting into more trouble right now. These kids just don't get it and that is a tough age. When my difficult child was around 14/15 he got into his first trouble with the juvenile system for shotting a paintball gun in the street with his friend and a neighbor called the police. We knew he was smoking pot and he was put on probation so we decided to clue the court in about the pot and they had the p.o. drug testing him. We didn't allow certain friends in our house and tried to keep him away from the ones we felt were bad influences. This just caused him to lie about where he was going and I think he had a few negative drug tests, but that didn't last. The problem was the p.o. liked him and didn't want to turn him in for the positive drug tests because he didn't want to see him end up in juvenile detention. He felt he was a good kid and that was not a place for him and wouldn't do him any good, so he kept letting him slip by???? Maybe if he hadn't let him slip by and something had been done to stop the pot smoking, he wouldn't have ended up a heroin addict!! It's a very very hard age and I don't think they even realize what they are doing to themselves,or believe what can happen to them if they don't follow the rules, until they mature a little more. My son just turned 20 last month and he seems to be, knock on wood, getting it. He has been involved in the court system for years, but never ended up in jail. He is now off probation and 6 1/2 months clean. Hopefully your son will get it long before he turns 20. Don't let the court system allow him to fall through the cracks. If he's getting positive drug tests, ask them to get him into some kind of drug program if he isn't in one already. Try and get the court to work with you, not against him.

 

[Stacy G.]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KFld</div><div class="ubbcode-body">and no I don't think you mentioned he was on house arrest. Is that a worse punishment for him or you??? </div></div>
Ain't that the truth! :crazy: I've about had all of the togetherness I can take. :laugh:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KFld</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So he's on house arrest, being drug tested, and doing drugs in his own bedroom. Doesn't sound to me like he much cares about getting into more trouble right now. These kids just don't get it and that is a tough age.</div></div>
The thing is that since he's been on house arrest he's only been left alone maybe 3-4 times (I had to work) & only once since his room change. Good grief, what's wrong with my sniffer? Shouldn't I smell this stuff?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KFld</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When my difficult child was around 14/15 he got into his first trouble with the juvenile system for shotting a paintball gun in the street with his friend and a neighbor called the police. We knew he was smoking pot and he was put on probation so we decided to clue the court in about the pot and they had the p.o. drug testing him. We didn't allow certain friends in our house and tried to keep him away from the ones we felt were bad influences. This just caused him to lie about where he was going and I think he had a few negative drug tests, but that didn't last. The problem was the p.o. liked him and didn't want to turn him in for the positive drug tests because he didn't want to see him end up in juvenile detention. He felt he was a good kid and that was not a place for him and wouldn't do him any good, so he kept letting him slip by????</div></div>
You know, that's the problem with Adam. He is a very polite kid to other people, 'yes sir, no sir' etc. I think he fools a lot of people, except his teachers since they spend so much time with him.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KFld</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Maybe if he hadn't let him slip by and something had been done to stop the pot smoking, he wouldn't have ended up a heroin addict!!</div></div>
That's my biggest fear & what I'm trying so desperately to avoid!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KFld</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's a very very hard age and I don't think they even realize what they are doing to themselves,or believe what can happen to them if they don't follow the rules, until they mature a little more. My son just turned 20 last month and he seems to be, knock on wood, getting it. He has been involved in the court system for years, but never ended up in jail. He is now off probation and 6 1/2 months clean. Hopefully your son will get it long before he turns 20. Don't let the court system allow him to fall through the cracks. If he's getting positive drug tests, ask them to get him into some kind of drug program if he isn't in one already. Try and get the court to work with you, not against him. </div></div>
Thank you. I pray that your son stays clean & continues to get it!!