My 30 year old niece, and loved one has been diagnosis with schizoaffective disorder with bipolar features. Of all of the research I have done in regards to drug abuse- we are talking 15 years of anything she can get her hands on, I feel that her psychosis is induced by substance abuse. I was finally able to get her into an acute care facility in December 2023, after she spent 6 weeks in jail for possession of a controlled substance ( for the 8th arrest in 2023 alone.) I presented evidence to a social worker at the crisis stabilization unit, and SOMEONE finally listened. He instructed me to present even more overwhelming evidence to the acute care facility, which I did. She was like a wild animal in those first days, had not showered in over a year, was homeless for 15 months, and covered in lice. She refused to cooperate, shower, get de-loused until she was heavily medicated. She had to be Riesed ( a hearing which forces people to take medications against their will) and was found to be incompetent and incapcitated. She was started on anti-psychotics when her 3 day hold was extended to 14 days. She insisted that she had been kidnapped multiple times, and had no idea why she was in a hospital, and demanded to be released. After her 14 day hold, she was placed on a 30 day hold, and then another 30 day hold while her social worker applied to the Public Guardian for a temporary LPS Conservatorship. At the end of the 2nd 30 days a court hearing was held, and I was appointed her conservator. I make all of her medical decisons, including where she will live and what medications she can be given. It is daunting at best. She was released one day after this court hearing, into my custody. I moved her into a new environment 500 miles from her home, but all she wanted to do was go to the clinic to get methadone. Which I would not allow. I sent her back to her county and placed her in a sober living home, which was her request. She did really well for about 7 weeks. Then I got the phone call that every parent dreads in the middle of the night, that she had overdosed. She was blue and not breathing, no heartbeat. With 3 doses of Narcan, she was revived and remembers only being wheeled away on a stretcher. I let her know long before this if she used again, she will go back in to a lockdown psychiatric hospital, and she is there now. She calls every day begging me to let her out, but I most certainly will not. She is on a waiting list for a Residential Treatment Center (RTC) lockdown facility which can take months for a bed to be available. What I would like to propose is a medication wash to determine her baseline. Have any of you ever asked for a medication wash? And if so, were the results significant? I feel that this would show that her psychosis is due to drug use, as opposed to true schizophrenia. It can be safely done in a hospital setting. I am not trying to prove that I am right and others involved are wrong, I just want to see what her baseline is, so going forward we can see the "real" her, free of illegal substances for the first time in her adult life. I mostly don't want her to be institutionalized for the rest of her life, unless she is truly schizophrenic, or schizoaffective. She has no insight into her illness, whether it be schizoaffective, or the disease of addiction. Has anyone on these boards ever done a medication wash for their loved one?
Methamphetamine/Fentanyl Induced Psychosis, or Schizophrenia?
- Thread starter SageAngel
- Start date
ANewLife4Me
Active Member
My heart aches for you SageAngel and for her as well.
Am sorry that I don’t know of a meditation wash but, my daughter has schizophrenia along with other mental conditions. It’s a huge challenge to get them help as is my situation she refuses medication or therapy. From my research it is imperative that they need to be on medication for life. My daughter as well has been in and out of jail multiple times and just does not seem fair to keep them locked up in jail or a facility. Understanding though how much of a danger she can be to herself or others seems it’s the only option for them at this time. Wanted to welcome you and I pray you find the answers and get the help she needs. 
SageAngel ~ I'm amazed at all you have been able to do to get control of her situation to this point.
I have done what you call a medication wash with my son many years ago but the circumstances are so different for him there would be no comparison to your nieces situation.
I don't know of any research on what the path would be going forward for someone with long term drug use, and a mental health disorder, assuming the disorder was created by the drug use. The lack of insight after all she has been through and all of the treatment she's been given the last few months kind of points to her not being ready for any big changes.
Is she actually somewhat stable at this point? I mean at least able to handle selfcare and participate during the therapies she's been given so far, willingly.
Just my opinion but I don't think a baseline could be determined yet considering she has 15 years of drug abuse and relapsed within a 5 month period of forced sobriety. Most of the time people with a diagnosis schizophrenic, or schizoaffective bipolar do not have to be institutionalized for the rest of their lives, so don't worry about that just yet. They do need a good support system to help them when things go sideways. If they accept a support system they can lead relatively good lives.
I know it must be heart breaking with her being in a place she doesn't want to be in and doesn't think she should be in but I think I would take it slow and wait for the Residential Treatment Center (RTC). Maybe a tweak to her current medications might be the only thing to consider right now. Also I wouldn't worry too much about her being in the wrong place, like if she were taken off of her medications her brain would clear and she would see the light. Considering how you described her condition when you got her help, as long as she's not being mistreated, I feel whether she likes it or not she's got a road to recovery to walk, for a while.
Sorry I didn't answer your question. And take my opinions with a gran of salt. My experience has only been with up to 10 day admissions for my son, with many relapses along the way. He does have a diagnosis of Bipolar with schizoaffective tendencies. His diagnosis did not come after drug abuse, but instead before it when he was a child, officially Mood Disorder not otherwise specified prior to adulthood.
I have done what you call a medication wash with my son many years ago but the circumstances are so different for him there would be no comparison to your nieces situation.
I don't know of any research on what the path would be going forward for someone with long term drug use, and a mental health disorder, assuming the disorder was created by the drug use. The lack of insight after all she has been through and all of the treatment she's been given the last few months kind of points to her not being ready for any big changes.
Is she actually somewhat stable at this point? I mean at least able to handle selfcare and participate during the therapies she's been given so far, willingly.
Just my opinion but I don't think a baseline could be determined yet considering she has 15 years of drug abuse and relapsed within a 5 month period of forced sobriety. Most of the time people with a diagnosis schizophrenic, or schizoaffective bipolar do not have to be institutionalized for the rest of their lives, so don't worry about that just yet. They do need a good support system to help them when things go sideways. If they accept a support system they can lead relatively good lives.
I know it must be heart breaking with her being in a place she doesn't want to be in and doesn't think she should be in but I think I would take it slow and wait for the Residential Treatment Center (RTC). Maybe a tweak to her current medications might be the only thing to consider right now. Also I wouldn't worry too much about her being in the wrong place, like if she were taken off of her medications her brain would clear and she would see the light. Considering how you described her condition when you got her help, as long as she's not being mistreated, I feel whether she likes it or not she's got a road to recovery to walk, for a while.
Sorry I didn't answer your question. And take my opinions with a gran of salt. My experience has only been with up to 10 day admissions for my son, with many relapses along the way. He does have a diagnosis of Bipolar with schizoaffective tendencies. His diagnosis did not come after drug abuse, but instead before it when he was a child, officially Mood Disorder not otherwise specified prior to adulthood.
Thank you for your kind words, and I am sorry for all of the heartache that this life has piled upon you. None of us derserve this. It is a huge challenge for us and society as a whole. I wish there were better programs in place that were actually accessible to the ones who need it most. I dont feel that incarceration is helpful to anyone, and it just perpetuates the anger and relapse that we have seen all too often. And even though there are programs, there are so many barriers and red tape to contend with. They expected my niece to show up for appointments for intake and evaluation- she is gravely disabled and does not have transportation. I have begun to talk to her about her mental illness, as she is not getting this kind of treatment ( talk therapy) in her current facility. I get it! 126 people from all walks of life that need to be controlled in this environment. They use a one size fits all approach, and throw pharceuticals at them to see what sticks and provides some semblence of control. We live in a broken world, but this model of healthcare does nothing but perpetuate the disease of addiction and mental illness.My heart aches for you SageAngel and for her as well.
Thank you for your kind response. She is able to handle self care now that she is sober. She takes a daily shower, wears clean clothing, and participates in group therapy. When she was here with me, she was extremely polite, made her bed, washed her dishes, and cleaned and cooked with me. We hiked together, went to AA meetings online together, and did short field trips together. She is very intelligent. She did not exhibit ANY behavioral issues prior to her drug use. She just suffered a LOT of trauma in her family, ugly divorce, foster care because her parents were so bitter to each other. My sister tries her best, but she is an enabler, just like our Mother. I was the lucky one because after years of abuse by my Mother, I was sent to live with my Father because I was incorrigeable. (SP?) I wasn't going to stand for my Mothers string of boyfriends and her revolving door of husbands sexually molesting me and my sister and was very outspoken about this. So she shipped me out at the age of 11. This is what actually saved my life. I enrolled myself in therapy once I realized that my Mothers parenting skills were non existant. My Father, although he is an alcoholic, understood the importance of responsibility and accountability, and he practiced this with loving kindness and firmness. I went on to have four wonderful sons, all of whom finished college, and I have a great relationship with to this day. They are in their 40's.
She is not being mistreated in her current facility, I just feel that she needs more which includes individual therapy, and the road to this is a referral from an acute care hospital. Again another barrier to care, but its the only way to get her there. I do plan on supporting her emotionally for the rest of her life either way. I was there when she took her first breath, and I will never walk away from her even if it turns out she is truly schizophrenic. She called me on Sunday to wish me a Happy Mothers Day, and it filled my heart with hope and joy. I have given her a toolbox, filled it with tools, and given her a map. But it is ultimately up to her to use the tools and follow the map, because this journey is hers. Peace be with you as well , on your journey with your son.
ANewLife4Me
Active Member
You are absolutely right and thank you for your concern.
My husband works with mentally ill here in Florida and responds to those in crisis. Frustrated at the lack of resources that even he can provide are basically what you have mentioned your niece going through. As we know this is a bandaide to cover up until the next crisis begins. Unfortunately for us, we put 10 years into trying to help our daughter with anything and everything. She can hold a job, takes care of herself, pays her own bills….she is fully functional. We have no idea when she will get out of jail this time but, have chosen to let her live her life on her own at this time. She is verbally abusive to her Dad and I, has attacked me, the voices in her head have told her to kill us. She won’t accept medication or therapy even though they really helped the few weeks she allowed it or court ordered. It’s very difficult making this decision but we fear for our safety. In this regard there should be something to help her! I wrote her lawyer with no response, we don’t have shelters here as we live in a small town. Begged the lawyer to let her serve probation in a big city. Am very afraid of the potential violence she will try when she gets out of jail as we live within walking distance of. We are her only form of help, everyone gave up long before we did. We just don’t know what else to do?
It sounds as if your niece is in a good place at this time and I hope and pray you will one day get back to those hikes and attend meetings together. At some point they have to want to change, it’s so difficult I understand. Baby steps as I call it, making progress on a better future.
What you are going through sounds very frightening. I wonder if the jail will let you know when her release date is? That kind of information is hard to come by, because she is an adult. I found that establishing good rapport with every facility involved in my nieces care before I became her conservator, I was able to determine her release dates. On the last 6 releases from jail, she was sent to the crisei stabilzation unit. The first five times, I had no idea what that even was. But, after I found out, my sister ( her mother) camped out in the parking lot all day. I live 500 miles away. She watched the ambulance pull up with her daughter in a straight jacket, tied to a wheelchair. She waited for 7 hours. She felt so discouraged and she needed to use the restroom, and decided to give up. I texted her one simple word." Wait. " Within moments the social worker whom she had given the paperwork to came out to her car and let her know that he went in while the psychiatrist evaluted her, and made him read the evidence we had prepared. They sent her to an acute care facility. We still think of this social worker as our angel.You are absolutely right and thank you for your concern.
Unfortunately for us, we put 10 years into trying to help our daughter with anything and everything. She can hold a job, takes care of herself, pays her own bills….she is fully functional. We have no idea when she will get out of jail this time but, have chosen to let her live her life on her own at this time. She is verbally abusive to her Dad and I, has attacked me, the voices in her head have told her to kill us. She won’t accept medication or therapy even though they really helped the few weeks she allowed it or court ordered. It’s very difficult making this decision but we fear for our safety. In this regard there should be something to help her! I wrote her lawyer with no response, we don’t have shelters here as we live in a small town. Begged the lawyer to let her serve probation in a big city. Am very afraid of the potential violence she will try when she gets out of jail as we live within walking distance of. We are her only form of help, everyone gave up long before we did. We just don’t know what else to do?
It sounds as if your niece is in a good place at this time and I hope and pray you will one day get back to those hikes and attend meetings together. At some point they have to want to change, it’s so difficult I understand. Baby steps as I call it, making progress on a better future.
You did not mention if your daughter abuses substances. This could have a lot to do with her violent behavior. A typical schizophrenic is not violent. But a person can be known as schizoaffective- they are similar- but a schizoaffective person tends to be abusive and violent as they are wapped up in and controlled by their delusions. My niece threatend to kill my sister and her siblings. She stabbed her older sister. I would not have believed any of this except that my sister had video cameras installed focused on the window that my niece used to go in and out of her bedroom which was in the garage. While her family was trying to hold her at bay she kept attacking them. When police arrived they had to wrangle her to the ground as she swung, and kicked and bit them. She also attacked the paramedics. She was charged with battery and violating a restraining order. I know it is just a piece of paper, but perhaps you can file a restraining order against her. It sounds to me like she will violate it, and then she will be taken back to jail. I know that doesnt help her, but at least you will be safe. My niece takes a monthly injection antipsychotic medication. She was given a hearing, and forced to take the injection against her will, but I believe that law only exists in California. I know of another woman with an adidcted daughter, whom burned down the shed in their backyard that they were allowing her to live in. When she was once again taken to jail, they moved, and changed their phone numbers and got different jobs so that their daughter would not be able to find them ever again. It sounds so extreme, doesnt it? But your safety is your number one concern. I dont know your situation however. When my niece was here for a week after I picked her up, I slept with one eye open, if and when I could actually sleep. I was also afraid she would jump out of my car while it was moving, as she has done that before as the need for drugs overcame her common sense. It was gut wrenching and heartbreaking to drive around looking for her just to bring her food, or coffee or clean underwear. She relocated to another city near the jail, so as soon as she got out she could get her fix. We found this out by asking the local homeless crowd if anyone had seen her. We found her very near the area that her "informant" said she was last seen. She was almost unreconizable, and deep in one of her delusions, one of which was an officer in the army, as she spoke to her soldiers, giving orders and waving her arms. My sister was afraid to approach her, so I was left to approach alone. When I called her name she swung around and looked me straight in the eyes. Her demeanor changed and suddenly she was the sweet innocent little girl, and I could see it in her eyes that she was pleading for help, although she did not speak those words. I took her in my car and got her some food, as she had been eating from a garbage dumpster. She would not go with me that day, but when I left her she crumpled into a fetal position and wept. It broke my heart. That is what made me even more detemined to get her the help she so desperately deserved. She got arrested again about a month later. Do you have any kind of conservatorship or guardianship laws in your state? I would check into that, because even though that is also just a piece of paper it is a court order, and she will be required to comply, or face incareration. One really has to go all the extra miles and plead and beg for help. I felt bad conserving her, and she still has no idea how any of this happened. One day she was smoking fentanyl on the street , and the next day she was incarcerated, and then placed in an acute care facility. it was a lot of work for me as well. Hours of phone calls every day. but now she is safe and stable, and my sister can sleep at night for the first tme in 15 years. Other than that night about 10 days ago when she overdosed on fentanyl she stayed clean for 6 months. I talk to her every single day by telephone, and I actually look forward to her calls. She realizes that now she has a lifeline. She is begining to open up and trust again, as she tells me about her day, her group therapy, her rommate that snores like a freight train, and I will do and say anything to hear her laugh ter again, and begin to have hope in her future. Recovery is possible, all it takes is one little spark, one day at a time. She is worth it. Your daughter is worth it. Never give up.
Copabanana
Well-Known Member
Hi. I don't have any comment on a medication wash but do want to respond to the above. I worked in psychiatry in prisons for many years, including with the most disturbed inmates. Even "clean" of illegal substances, the effects of long-time and serious drug use are still present. I stopped this work before Fentanyl was on the street, but meth psychosis can last years. What I am saying is I am unsure if you'll get the answer you seek.
Second, many, many people with schizophrenia or schizophrenia function with medication. They work. They have families. They gain self-awareness. I don't know the circumstances and situation of your niece, firsthand, but in my state, only very few people are hospitalized in mental hospitals. Just as bad or worse, they are on the street.
This is so beautiful. So many people rebuilt themselves and their lives in prison. Their connection to families.
ANewLife4Me
Active Member
Thank you for sharing that with me, all of you have been through so much!
At this time I don’t think there will be a turn around for my daughter will explain.Mental illness runs in my family, my brother and my daughter are the worst cases. She started off very young pulling away from us and not wanting to be involved in whatever we were doing/going. She had troubles in school and we began with a school social worker. As years progressed we had no money to take her to a therapist or even a doctor for medication so we tried all the free things like counseling at community churches and tried to get her involved in events. Nothing we did worked and at about the age of 12 we found out she had been cutting herself but this time it was her wrists. Not deep enough for suicide but, just the process of what could have been shattered my world. I became hyper vigilant and anytime she spent more time in the bathroom I would knock on the door asking if she was alright. She became even more withdrawn and was having horrific visions of blood and murder, she was hearing voices. Around the age of 16 she came out to us that she was gay and had a girlfriend. We were shocked and accepted it but, she used every opportunity to throw it in our faces and use it as an excuse why we did not love her. Everything she did/does is our fault that we should of never had her. She and her girlfriend went to the same high school, we were moving. The girlfriends mother allowed my daughter to live with them so she could finish and get her diploma. That is a whole other story that I wish would of not done. After graduating my daughter and her girlfriend eventually moved out and found their own place, they smoked weed and drank alcohol…..that I know of. Her girlfriend constantly complaining of my daughters mental and the day they broke up my daughter tried to get her to come back, they told her to leave through the window, when she said no and wanted to talk with her my daughter punched out the window causing severe damage to her cut tendons. Off to emergency then jail where I bailed her out that very same day, back to living with us.
Since loosing that girlfriend and constantly wanting her back is when the real troubles began. She drank more alcohol, was even more psychotic, not sure if drugs were involved at that time. Begging and pleaded with her to let us help her, let’s go to counseling or take her to a doctor…she refused. I cannot remember everything but at one point had finally gotten her an apartment that she paid for. She had moved in a girl with her but that relationship too did not last even with a girl who had mental issues like her. She went to a bar and at first all they wanted was for her to leave but was eventually arrested for public disturbance/intoxication. But! this turned into a felony because as she resisted the officer she licked him arm. Are we even serious! Licked him arm gave her a felony! We had to clean out her apartment as there was no bond and while doing so found a pot plant she was growing and a very large bottle of alcohol.
After getting out back at home with us. The next jail sentence was for DUI, each time in jail is getting longer and longer time. We had kicked her out of our house and she was living with other people who we did not know at the time were selling drugs and am sure she was taking them at this point. She would call me talking weird things and not remember the next day. She told me she was raped but said that she never said that, I was lying. She told me those people helped her out more than we did…..ouch! They too kicked her out after the DUI, right back to our house. Each time after coming back home to us we had to buy everything for her, a bed - clothes - pay her court fines - take her to all court appointments - early morning drug tests when the phone call she had to make daily told her she had to come in at any given moment. She took no responsibility for herself, we set an alarm and banged on the door to wake her up, got to the point we woke up early and made the phone call, we were so scared she would miss the day it told her to get tested and right back to jail. Court ordered DUI meetings, one was a video - horrific images of those killed by drunk drivers, my daughter laughed! She was court ordered to attend counseling and she said, am only doing this for the court, when it’s done so am I. She never returned again. I also went to AA with her and again, she did not participate she was just there to get her paper signed. Her license was suspended and we played like anything getting it back. She had gotten a job at 3 am and we would begin each day banging on her door and taking her back and forth. Each re-entry back into our lives was a major disruption.ANewLife4Me
Active Member
The entire time all of this was going on, each time back at home with us…she would not help around the house. She expected everything to be done for her, meals made. She was verbally abusive every day towards us and spoke of demons constantly yelling at her making her scared. She spoke of them wanting her to kill us. We were constantly on edge, always looking over our shoulders, scared to go to sleep at night for fear we would not wake up the next morning. Psychotic episodes of screaming, punching walls, saying she was going to kill herself, coming home one day unable to find her even though her car was outside….the place I last checked, the garage and major fear of what I might see. She was out there alright, hiding like a caged wild animal, she could not speak to me very well, was like in a daze. I think this time was possibly drug induced.Thank you for sharing that with me, all of you have been through so much!
Mental illness runs in my family, my brother and my daughter are the worst cases. She started off very young pulling away from us and not wanting to be involved in whatever we were doing/going. She had troubles in school and we began with a school social worker. As years progressed we had no money to take her to a therapist or even a doctor for medication so we tried all the free things like counseling at community churches and tried to get her involved in events. Nothing we did worked and at about the age of 12 we found out she had been cutting herself but this time it was her wrists. Not deep enough for suicide but, just the process of what could have been shattered my world. I became hyper vigilant and anytime she spent more time in the bathroom I would knock on the door asking if she was alright. She became even more withdrawn and was having horrific visions of blood and murder, she was hearing voices. Around the age of 16 she came out to us that she was gay and had a girlfriend. We were shocked and accepted it but, she used every opportunity to throw it in our faces and use it as an excuse why we did not love her. Everything she did/does is our fault that we should of never had her. She and her girlfriend went to the same high school, we were moving. The girlfriends mother allowed my daughter to live with them so she could finish and get her diploma. That is a whole other story that I wish would of not done. After graduating my daughter and her girlfriend eventually moved out and found their own place, they smoked weed and drank alcohol…..that I know of. Her girlfriend constantly complaining of my daughters mental and the day they broke up my daughter tried to get her to come back, they told her to leave through the window, when she said no and wanted to talk with her my daughter punched out the window causing severe damage to her cut tendons. Off to emergency then jail where I bailed her out that very same day, back to living with us.
Since loosing that girlfriend and constantly wanting her back is when the real troubles began. She drank more alcohol, was even more psychotic, not sure if drugs were involved at that time. Begging and pleaded with her to let us help her, let’s go to counseling or take her to a doctor…she refused. I cannot remember everything but at one point had finally gotten her an apartment that she paid for. She had moved in a girl with her but that relationship too did not last even with a girl who had mental issues like her. She went to a bar and at first all they wanted was for her to leave but was eventually arrested for public disturbance/intoxication. But! this turned into a felony because as she resisted the officer she licked him arm. Are we even serious! Licked him arm gave her a felony! We had to clean out her apartment as there was no bond and while doing so found a pot plant she was growing and a very large bottle of alcohol.
There is so much more I could say such as her trying to take the wheel and run us off the road to kill both of us. One day saying the bank did not help her and if she had a gun would go back in and shoot them all up. We have tried every single thing for her that we can possibly do, her not wanting to help herself is the problem. She wants everything done for her even the times she has been on medication and acted “normal” Each time being hopeful this drug was it only for her to stop taking them. She was on lithium that turned her into the sweetest daughter I ever imagined but, that did not last long. The excuse of, I can handle this on my own and will take them as needed did not work out either. Her jobs began to suffer as she let the schizophrenia take more hold on her. The voices are her friends, she loves having conversations with them.
March of last year we were close to kicking her out of our house again but, she decided one night to just up and leave herself. She had gotten back to drinking alcohol at times, embarrassed me with my neighbors and had one come knocking on my door yelling about her. Constantly harassment by her towards us. She worked a job 3 years, saved up money and bought a brand new car. After getting the car she went right back to meeting people from the apps, not saving her money and shock to us spent $300. in sex toys for a girl she was going to meet. That meeting did not happen and another major schizophrenic episode took place with her calling the suicide hotline. After leaving us we did not hear from her until she had gotten in jail. This time is she punched a nurse when she did not get the treatment she thought was appropriate.
Sorry so long is my story and so much has been left out, could write a book. My husband and I are 58 years old. I understand about going to court and making her do these things but, and this might be hard to understand, I cannot. We have been through so much I am physically and mentally beat down. When you have someone who will not try at all there is really nothing we can do. I am tired of trying and tired of the fight. I have to let her go.
ANewLife4Me
Active Member
Sorry did not mean to hijack your thread. I will know when she gets out of jail as am using vinelink and they will alert when she is out. Also, I keep up with the public court records that are able to view the very same day.
I'm not sure what a medication wash is, but has she had testing to see what medications her body can metabolize? Both our granddaughters eventually had that testing done and each had issues of either not having specific enzymes, or having too many of an enzyme so medications could not be metabolized, or were metabolized too fast. The testing provided a list of medications that should work best, use with caution, or use with extreme caution.
Unfortunately, after finding the best medications, when they turned 18, they refused to take medications or continue to receive any type of therapy.
The youngest started using meth, and had a psychotic break about 2,5 years ago. After living with us for several months she improved, but when she felt better, she started seeing her old friends and drug use started up again. Her excuse was that she had gotten "some bad meth". WTH? I told her there is no good meth! She chooses it over her son since we rescued her from the east coast 2.5 years ago.
I think her brain is rewired from 8 or 9 years of meth use. Ksm
Unfortunately, after finding the best medications, when they turned 18, they refused to take medications or continue to receive any type of therapy.
The youngest started using meth, and had a psychotic break about 2,5 years ago. After living with us for several months she improved, but when she felt better, she started seeing her old friends and drug use started up again. Her excuse was that she had gotten "some bad meth". WTH? I told her there is no good meth! She chooses it over her son since we rescued her from the east coast 2.5 years ago.
I think her brain is rewired from 8 or 9 years of meth use. Ksm
mindinggaps
Member
I wanted to chime in here as someone who is highly dependent on medications to function and has stopped medications both in collaboration with health care providers and through defiant refusal. The caveat here is that my mental health conditions are very different from SageAngel's niece and I have never used any drugs of any kind. However there are obvious parallels since off medication my behavior deteriorates and there is great risk of aggression, violence and failure to exist in society that can have highly detrimental consequences. The question I would ask is what exactly are you trying to achieve with a medication wash and is the timing correct for this?
Right now the primary problem that needs to be solved is stabilizing her condition and getting treatment to deal with the drug addiction. It is my belief that you should do whatever is required to keep her on that track and medication can almost certainly help. It sounds like is probably helping right now. In some sense questioning whether the deterioration of her mental health is due to drugs feels pointless right now. I know this is a very harsh thing to say and I apologize for the bluntness. However, whether she became psychotic due to drugs or due to mental health issues doesn't matter right now. The outcome is the same - she needs to be treated for the issues and then remain fully sober.
Based on my understanding it sounds like she is sober and on the right track. The risks of doing a medication wash right now are enormous. The medication is likely playing a major role in helping her manage, engage in therapy and try to remain sober. Stopping now could have DISASTROUS consequences. If you stop the medication and she starts using drugs again then you are back to the beginning but this time in a worse situation since you are without anything to help keep her brain functioning even remotely normally.
I understand the longer term concern here and there is a time and place for what you suggest. I think that if she is totally sober for an extended period (12+ months) with no underlying symptoms you can carefully discuss with a psychiatrist how to test a medication reduction. But I would only do so after a very extended period of drug-free mental stability. You exist in a fragile state right now.
Also, speaking as someone who takes a complicated cocktail, the reality is that some people need medications to function. I think that both you and your niece need to be prepared for that reality. It can also be dangerous for people who need medication to somehow begin to believe they don't. I have been through this and trust me, you don't want this to happen since the patient can become non compliant and begin to totally refuse treatment. Part of my treatment, both in therapy and through medication is focused on building an understanding that medication MUST be used at all times. Because of my diagnoses, I have to take medications specifically targeting keeping me compliant with the rest of the cocktail. The result is that I have a job, a positive life and do well in society.
Right now the primary problem that needs to be solved is stabilizing her condition and getting treatment to deal with the drug addiction. It is my belief that you should do whatever is required to keep her on that track and medication can almost certainly help. It sounds like is probably helping right now. In some sense questioning whether the deterioration of her mental health is due to drugs feels pointless right now. I know this is a very harsh thing to say and I apologize for the bluntness. However, whether she became psychotic due to drugs or due to mental health issues doesn't matter right now. The outcome is the same - she needs to be treated for the issues and then remain fully sober.
Based on my understanding it sounds like she is sober and on the right track. The risks of doing a medication wash right now are enormous. The medication is likely playing a major role in helping her manage, engage in therapy and try to remain sober. Stopping now could have DISASTROUS consequences. If you stop the medication and she starts using drugs again then you are back to the beginning but this time in a worse situation since you are without anything to help keep her brain functioning even remotely normally.
I understand the longer term concern here and there is a time and place for what you suggest. I think that if she is totally sober for an extended period (12+ months) with no underlying symptoms you can carefully discuss with a psychiatrist how to test a medication reduction. But I would only do so after a very extended period of drug-free mental stability. You exist in a fragile state right now.
Also, speaking as someone who takes a complicated cocktail, the reality is that some people need medications to function. I think that both you and your niece need to be prepared for that reality. It can also be dangerous for people who need medication to somehow begin to believe they don't. I have been through this and trust me, you don't want this to happen since the patient can become non compliant and begin to totally refuse treatment. Part of my treatment, both in therapy and through medication is focused on building an understanding that medication MUST be used at all times. Because of my diagnoses, I have to take medications specifically targeting keeping me compliant with the rest of the cocktail. The result is that I have a job, a positive life and do well in society.
Copabanana
Well-Known Member
I agree with MG in every particular. I would like to add only one thing from the point of view of a parent.
If I am in any way an exemplar of parental attitudes toward mentally ill children who use drugs to excess, there is a great deal of fear involved that one's child will never recover. Even though I am a mental health professional, I have feared tremendously that my son had psychosis such as schizophrenia (even though he has shown psychotic symptoms for a long time.) The underlying emotions for me, were terror, and hopelessness. For the longest time I hung my hat on marijuana psychosis, believing (even though I knew better) that if I could see the marijuana as the cause, there would e more hope, and our situation would be less scary. NOT TRUE.
I am so grateful to MG for posting (even though there's no psychosis involved) because MG gives me HOPE and lessens my FEAR.
Thank you for your encouragement in regards to people functioning on medication. She has never functioned, however. Never had a job, except the one day at Salvation Army. And that was about 10 years ago. I hope and pray that her psychosis subsides at some point in the future. I think there are resources , such as hospitals, long term care facilities, outpatient treatment programs, etc. It is really hard to stay on the waiting lists, and there are many other barriers to care. While she was in the hospital ER several weeks ago, while I was making dozens of calls to find placement, a gentleman called to offer a mental health assesment from one of our many programs. He wanted her to make an appointment, and then "wait" untill they found something appropriate. She was homeless! How are the severely mentally ill people supposed to get to appointments, etc., with no car, no home? I would love to have her back in my home someday, but I don't know if I can do it without a "break", and support of our other family members. Caring for a person with SMI is exhausting.
I am sorry for this misfortune with your daughter. You did not cause this, and you cannot control or change this. My sister has spun her wheels for years, 15 years to be exact. She caters to her every whim out of guilt. And my niece is very manipulative. Bailing her out, putting her through rehab, dealing with law enforcement on a weekly basis. This has caused my sister so much distress, high blood pressure, kidney failure. That is when I said "that is enough". She finally filed a restraining order, and when her daughter violated it, she was taken to jail. She gets picked up about every six weeks for open drug use. So this time is different. My sister still gets a twinge of wanting to enable her daughters behavior, which she sees as helping. I see it for what it is, if that makes any sense. I love my niece dearly, but I will not let her manipulate me. Sometimes when she calls she begs for me to get her out of there. It is really hard to listen to, and it breaks my heart. Then she calls my sister and does the same thing. I have to keep reminding her what "consequences" look like. I am guessing a lot of cities and states do not have lock down psychiatric hospitals, as California does. If these hospitals did not exist, she would have died a LONG TIME ago from a drug overdose. Even Arizona, where I live, does not have them, except for the 3 day 5150 hold. The only alternative is incarceration, or homelessness, alcohol and drug abuse. I have been going to Nar Anon meetings online, and they have been extremey helpful and supportive.Thank you for sharing that with me, all of you have been through so much!
Mental illness runs in my family, my brother and my daughter are the worst cases. She started off very young pulling away from us and not wanting to be involved in whatever we were doing/going. She had troubles in school and we began with a school social worker. As years progressed we had no money to take her to a therapist or even a doctor for medication so we tried all the free things like counseling at community churches and tried to get her involved in events. Nothing we did worked and at about the age of 12 we found out she had been cutting herself but this time it was her wrists. Not deep enough for suicide but, just the process of what could have been shattered my world. I became hyper vigilant and anytime she spent more time in the bathroom I would knock on the door asking if she was alright. She became even more withdrawn and was having horrific visions of blood and murder, she was hearing voices. Around the age of 16 she came out to us that she was gay and had a girlfriend. We were shocked and accepted it but, she used every opportunity to throw it in our faces and use it as an excuse why we did not love her. Everything she did/does is our fault that we should of never had her. She and her girlfriend went to the same high school, we were moving. The girlfriends mother allowed my daughter to live with them so she could finish and get her diploma. That is a whole other story that I wish would of not done. After graduating my daughter and her girlfriend eventually moved out and found their own place, they smoked weed and drank alcohol…..that I know of. Her girlfriend constantly complaining of my daughters mental and the day they broke up my daughter tried to get her to come back, they told her to leave through the window, when she said no and wanted to talk with her my daughter punched out the window causing severe damage to her cut tendons. Off to emergency then jail where I bailed her out that very same day, back to living with us.
Since loosing that girlfriend and constantly wanting her back is when the real troubles began. She drank more alcohol, was even more psychotic, not sure if drugs were involved at that time. Begging and pleaded with her to let us help her, let’s go to counseling or take her to a doctor…she refused. I cannot remember everything but at one point had finally gotten her an apartment that she paid for. She had moved in a girl with her but that relationship too did not last even with a girl who had mental issues like her. She went to a bar and at first all they wanted was for her to leave but was eventually arrested for public disturbance/intoxication. But! this turned into a felony because as she resisted the officer she licked him arm. Are we even serious! Licked him arm gave her a felony! We had to clean out her apartment as there was no bond and while doing so found a pot plant she was growing and a very large bottle of alcohol.
I appreciate your input very much, and I am listening. I came here asking for advice, and that is what you are giving, so thank you. I am not at all offended by what you called bluntness. I prefer real, as opposed to candy coating something. I wished to do a medication wash while she is in a lockdown medical facility. She has no chance of getting her hands on any illegal drugs. She will likely be in this facility for 3-4 months, and then a residential treatment center, which is also lockdown, for another 6-9 months. So it is medically supervised and secured 24/7. My main reason for this is to determine whether she needs drug rehabilitation first and foremost, or mental health rehabilitation. At the present moment she has no insight into her illness. She will probably benefit from both types of treament, but they may differ in subtle ways. If she has true schizophrenia, I have no problem keeping her on medications, but she has to learn to be medication compliant, as you are. She is taking Invega Sustena, which she hates, but by next month she will be able to take the 3 month injection, and next will be a six month injection. She mostly hates the weight gain, but while she was here and in sober living she ate a diet that consisted of mostly junk food. Whilie in sober living she had the opportunity to go to the gym with her sponser. But she lacked motivation. Which is also a part of schizophrenia. If one sits around eating junk food, comsuming lots of sugar, and does not move the body, of course they will gain weight. The last time she was hospitalized in 2020, she was taking Zyprexa. She gained weight in a very short time, so she quit her medications, and quickly found her way back down to methamphetamine lane, and fentanyl highway. My sister stood by helplessly , but also made the excuse that she didnt like being overweight. Well who does? And she thought it was ok to get some meth to lose weight. But it quickly spiraled out of control once again, and before she knew it her daughter had become psychotic and violent.
