Discussion in 'Substance Abuse' started by Madonna, Mar 17, 2018.
Hurts how do you deal with?
Support groups. Private therapist. Books on dealing with addicted loved ones. Posting on this forum.
Not easy, not at all.
Can you give us some history?
It is usually brave to do this and good for both of you.
Unless your son is not able bodied there is no reason for him to not be on his own by 33!! You certainly would not want him living in your basement at 40, would you? This would be unhealthy for both of you.
I had to make my drug using daughter leave at 19. I had two young kids who were scared of her and frankly she was unwilling to do anything to help herself under our roof. She quit drugs quickly after being without our help. She is now 34 and a productive member of society and wonderful mom to my granddaughter. We are close! I don't know if this would have happened if we had not taken action. Trust me, I cried for weeks and did not sleep....very hard to make my basically sweet beautiful daughter leave, but something had to change. She looked like death...I could not make it easier for her to use drugs especially with her little brother and sister watching her drug rages.
Our "help" often is just the opposite. Our guilt keeps us often doing the wrong thing. But we are not supposed to be mommies forever. We graduate to mothers who have healthy adult relationships with our adult kids. Often, as we age, they begin to worry about US.
I have four adult kids and had trouble with two but they are all on their own and functioning. There comes a time when we are too old and tired to deal with their abuse, if there is abuse, and there is a time when they need to learn that we can not and will not care for them forever...they have to face the consequences of their bad choices. We will die one day...they will be alone.
33 is certainly old enough to be told to grow up. Yes, he will guilt you and try to make you continue housing and supporting him. Ignore.
Love and light!
He is an adult and HE made himself homeless.
Don't take the rap for that. It's not yours to own; it is his.
Of course I don't know what is going on with him but 33 is a man that should be taking care of himself and even taking care of his momma and not the other way around!
How I've dealt with it is to get as much support for myself as is possible. I couldn't have done this without professional support and every other kind of support I could muster, it was the hardest thing I have ever done.
My advice to you is this, every single day make taking care of YOU the priority. After so many years of putting our kids before our own well being, it is patterned behavior that needs to change.
If you don't already, get yourself a counselor or therapist, or a parent support group, or get involved in the 12 step groups that feel right to you, Families Anonymous, Narc Anon or Al Anon.......or as in my case, ALL of the above. Find ways to nourish and nurture YOU. This is a process, it takes time to move thru this difficult terrain.
Recognize that there is deep grief, there is fear, there is often anger and resentment, guilt, shame, overwhelming powerlessness.....there are a lot of emotions which can be challenging to deal with on our own. It hurts. It is not easy. But it is necessary.
It helped me to put my daughter in the hands of my perception of a higher power. It helped to pray. It helped to get out of the house and exercise. It helped to meditate. It helped to listen to various guided meditations on youtube which offered peace and healing. It helped to get enough sleep and eat a healthy diet. It helped to put my needs as the priority.
Hang in there Madonna, this is hard, but you've made a healthy choice. Take care of yourself.
I really appreciate your wisdom and comments.
I want to talk to you about my son 36 living with us since September, smokes pot, working at 7 eleven a few days a week.
has a bad psychiatrist bad insurance. he has anxiety, depression and mood disorder. is only taking the antidepressant and something for sleep, is not taking the MD medications. does not want to go to counseling or to a private psychiatrist. I don;t know how to help him if he wont let me help him. He goes in these moods where he sleeps for days and is angry if we disturb him. I think this is the depression. I left a message for his doctor today they do not get back to me
I am going to therapy for me and to help him, we should make him start therapy with us.
Please advice needed!
Hi! 36 is a bit old to be home too. I suffered from very severe depression most of my young years and did not sleep all day. I was married to an abusive man and had to work and take care of my kids. Getting up and being busy helps Depression. Lying in bed would make it worse. Why let him do nothing?
Depression and anxiety are very common and most people with them live as adults and help is readily available and effective. What can you do to help? Nothing. He is 36 and only he can help himself and pot is very bad for mental illness of any kind. I never allowed any of my kids to even smoke cigarettes under my roof, let alone pot. My house/my rules. Don't like them, leave. Depression or not.All are productive members of society.
Sleeping all day to me sounds like he may be using other drugs besides pot, such as benzodiazapens. The tlruth is, we don't know what they use when WE are sleeping. We can't know. And we have no legal ability to try to fix them. Your able bodied son can quit the pot and see a psychiatrist and therapist (there are low cost clinics) but no doctor can help him if he refuses to help himself. Nor can you. It doesn't help h to let him sleep all day for any reason. Is he up and out at night to see his friends? This is common and suspicious. My daughter slept all day, snuck out at night and we had no clue for a while until a cop brought her home for being out after curfew. Then we put bars on her window! Soon after we made her leave for throwing a pill party when we had gone with the littles to a water park for a vacation and came back early because they wanted to sleep at home. We thought Daughter had been clean. Surprise!! A houseful of driugged young adults. She had to leave. I did not see her changing for the better under the ease and comfort of our roof. The littles mattered and were scared. And I didn't want them to think this was acceptable to us. And I didn't want to help daughters drug use by making it easier for her to relax and take drugs while having nothing else to think about.
My daughter was a high functioning cocaine addict. We did not know she used cocaine or anything bad until she quit using and then she told all in a scary tearful confession. She always worked after school and was able to complete a Cosmetology course with A's while using drugs.
One day I got a call from the Dean at her school. He said that a group of her friends had gone to him out of concern for her and to tell him she was abusing cocaine. When confronted she cried and said the girls hated her and wanted to have her thrown out of school. We stupidly chose to believe her.
Eventually she was put on Prozac which reactedly badly in her, obviously also because she mixed it with other drugs, and she put a knife to her throat. We called 911 and the police took her to a psychiatric hospital where she was diagnosed with bipolar, which she doesn't have, but we believed it at the time. She was put on bipolar medications and after a few days, unknown to us, she tossed them out. She has been clean of cocsinecand meth years now. She is 34 and has NO symptoms of bipolar. Nobody can give an accurate diagnosis when the patient uses drugs. It alters the brain, even pot and alcohol.
My daughter bought her own stuff. We cut off her allowance the second time she was caught smoking pot in our house. We bought her basics and a school lunch ticket. Her car was our car. No car from us. I don't think it's a good idea to buy cars for drug using kids. So she totaled our car once and never drove our vehicles again and didn't make enough working after school at Walmart to buy a car. Too bad. She managed to get to work or we drove her. But usually she found rides.
After we made her leave she begged her straight arrow Christian brother if she could live with him. He said she could rent his basement but she would have to work even without a car, help clean and cook, and if she so much as lit one cigarette she was out. No second chances. He came to get her and I cried for a long time. She went the next state over, thankfully leaving all the addicts she knew.
Daughter knew Brother was stricter and meaner than us. She did everything he asked because she didn't want to be homeless and coming back to us was not an option. She walked to and from work in the cold Chicago winter and did not freeze or even catch a cold. She met her boyfriend that she is still with. She moved in with him. She went back to school for a two year chef certificate on her own dime. She got a loan, paid it off. They bought a house, had a beautiful baby, and cocaine and meth we're history. Yes, she also used meth.
I don't know why your son sleeps all day. You don't know. Even psychiatrists don't know. Psychiatry is an inexact field....no blood tests to prove any diagnoses. I have been a mental health client for decades and I learned that when it comes to diagnosing all they can do is guess. They helped me with depression. *I* felt the drpression. I knew I had it.iThey believed me. Legal medication did wonders. But I helped myself too. I complied with treatment, did not give up when the first five medications did not help or gave me side effects, and refused to make things worse by doing any extra drugs,including alcohol. I have never been drunk in my life. My mood and life now are great.
My parents didn't care about me or help me and I did it all myself. I think it's best that way. I had to do it because nobody else would. You really can't help somebody with drug or mental health issues but you can hold them back.
Your son would not be allowed to live in my house if he were one of my kids. I don't want a 40 year old man in my basement. I have an autistic son and he is in his own place, working and doing life. If he can do it your son can!! He needs you to make him adult, not coddle him. Home cooked meals, doing their laundry, letting them live with us for free and paying their cell phone bill encourages them to act like little kids. In my world he would cook, clean his room and clothes and pay rent and be respectful.
Your son is no longer your baby or little boy. He is an adult. He belongs to nobody. He is tall with a deep voice and hairy body and closing in on middle age. He won't get any help he needs while you baby him at home. I do not mean that in a harsh way! But society sees him as a man and will hold him to adult standards depression and anxiety or not. Those common mental illnesses he needs to fight like a man does.
Yes, your son, who is used to you giving in, will maybe scream bad things about you if you tell him he has three months to leave. My daughters last words were "I will hate you forever!" It haunted me, but we are very close now. I am proud of her. But I can still hear her yelling that at me and I love her do .it broke my heart. But something had to change or she could have died or ended up in prison and I was going to Al Anon. They helped me and her.
Everyone has a story and a perspective. This is mine. You deserve to have your own life now in my opinion and you can't fix your son. You can only hold him back. Take care of the one person you CAN care for....you. Read the book Codependent No More by Melodie Beattie. It is great!
It is HARD to make them adult. We cry. We worry. We wonder if we did wrong. But we do it largely for them too. You will die before him. Then what? He needs the skills to parent himself. We all do.
Love and light.
I am sorry. I read your post again and it doesn't mention pot. I still believe he is probably using something to sleep that much. Whatever he still needs to do this himself on his own and no doctor will talk to you about an adult patient. They can't. I don't think you should even try. It's his path.
I wonder if the sleep medication is a benzo and making him sleep too much. He needs to be forced to live his life.
I think you should go to therapy separately. Jmo
I agree with those before me. Your son needs to be responsible for himself. My son is also 36 he can not live here. I don't know about your financial circumstances but our older children can drain them quickly with no remorse. I love my son but i have come to the realization that i am not helping him because he has become dependent. I believed that I was helping him but when i was paying his bills he was using that money for drugs. I am not wealthy and he has put me in a financial position where i can't enjoy my retirement. I am going to work on changing that which will make him work on changing his behavior. Am I worried about what could happen? Yes but if i don't make him do it now what will happen when i am gone. Each of us reach this point in our own time and our own level of what is appropriate help. I hope you can find what works for you and your son. My son is dual diagnosis bipolar and addiction.
He was using seraquel, prescribed by his doctor to sleep at night but is using it during the day. He does the pot for the anxiety through out the day. I would like to see him get help and live a normal life but it is difficult for him to get to this point. But yes I cant help him if his does not want to the help.
thanks, for your help!
Where is your son living, does he work?
It is hard to let go and let them learn the hard way.
At what point do you define mental illness or addiction?
I don't know what my next step should be if he does not get better.
The Seroquel is why he is sleeping during the day. Tell him you need him to get up and help around the house and look for a better job during the day. It's nonsense to sleep all day. The Seroquel is for night. He knows this. Maybe he wants to be awake to be with friends at night. I don't know what he is doing or why he would chose to take a pill that tires you out so much during the day!!
Pot is usually not good for any mental illness and can trigger new mental illnesses and paranoia. Did he always smoke pot and is maybe using it because of the high? Many doctors will just go along with it. I personally don't like it for things like anxiety. I have very bad anxiety. My medications help depression more than anxiety. I tried pot and it made me spacy and paranoid. Therapy helped a lot more. If he won't go, he probably won't learn to cope better with anxiety. Pot can cause extreme lack of motivation.
You will have to let go of him one day. You will die one day. All of us will let go. It is your choice whether you want him to learn to take care of himself or not, but one day he will have to do it. He is not so badly mentally I'll that he can't work and do things for himself. Do you do things for him? Pay for him? If you treat him as if he is helpless, that is how he will act. How he IS acting. Do you have any plan to make him plan to leave?
I told you my autistic son is on his own and he has a developmental delay plus some depression. My son is 24, been in his own place since age 20 with autism. He gets some services but not from me nor does he want to live at home. He pays his own bills. Your son can do it if mine can. We can't in my opinion hold them back because of our fears. Its not fair to us or to them. They need us to push them from the nest.
Who will house and pay for him when you are gone? This question is why I pushed my autistic son from an early age to do the same chores my other kids did. It paid off!
I wish you both luck.
So he is still living with you then? Has he ever lived anywhere else?
Ugh I don't want my son living with us for any longer than he has to. We have been empty nesters for almost two years and I love it.
If he is not doing anything positive he will be out the door like a jackrabbit!
Struggle is Good! I Want to Fly!
Once a little boy was playing outdoors and found a fascinating caterpillar. He carefully picked it up and took it home to show his mother. He asked his mother if he could keep it, and she said he could if he would take good care of it.
The little boy got a large jar from his mother and put plants to eat, and a stick to climb on, in the jar. Every day he watched the caterpillar and brought it new plants to eat.
One day the caterpillar climbed up the stick and started acting strangely. The boy worriedly called his mother who came and understood that the caterpillar was creating a cocoon. The mother explained to the boy how the caterpillar was going to go through a metamorphosis and become a butterfly.
The little boy was thrilled to hear about the changes his caterpillar would go through. He watched every day, waiting for the butterfly to emerge. One day it happened, a small hole appeared in the cocoon and the butterfly started to struggle to come out.
At first the boy was excited, but soon he became concerned. The butterfly was struggling so hard to get out! It looked like it couldn’t break free! It looked desperate! It looked like it was making no progress!
The boy was so concerned he decided to help. He ran to get scissors, and then walked back (because he had learned not to run with scissors…). He snipped the cocoon to make the hole bigger and the butterfly quickly emerged!
As the butterfly came out the boy was surprised. It had a swollen body and small, shriveled wings. He continued to watch the butterfly expecting that, at any moment, the wings would dry out, enlarge and expand to support the swollen body. He knew that in time the body would shrink and the butterfly’s wings would expand.
But neither happened!
The butterfly spent the rest of its life crawling around with a swollen body and shriveled wings.
It never was able to fly…
As the boy tried to figure out what had gone wrong his mother took him to talk to a scientist from a local college. He learned that the butterfly was SUPPOSED to struggle. In fact, the butterfly’s struggle to push its way through the tiny opening of the cocoon pushes the fluid out of its body and into its wings. Without the struggle, the butterfly would never, ever fly. The boy’s good intentions hurt the butterfly.
As you go through school, and life, keep in mind that struggling is an important part of any growth experience. In fact, it is the struggle that causes you to develop your ability to fly.
As instructors our gift to you is stronger wings…
Thanks for the advice and the butterfly story.
It is hard to see these adult kids struggle with life.
It is, but a lot of it is their unwillingness to make healthy decisions that will help them not to struggle. Most people have struggles yet they deal with it and still become adults. Most adults who bring us here won't take medications or get therapy or TRY to get up and be productive. And they thrive on pot. You said your son smokes pot all day. That will kill his desire to do anything really fast. I would ban pot from my property if that we're me. In fact, I have. They can smoke pot at someone else's house. Pot will hold your son back, anxiety or not. There are ways to help anxiety without any medications. Pot use can be addictive.
They partly struggle because they won't do the simple things they can do to help themselves. After 30 most even slow to adult kids are working, have families, and are totally on their own, even most with the common depression and anxiety diagnosis. Like I had. I had three kids and worked at 36. My parents did t help or give me money after I got married. My husband gavee no money or support either so I got it myself. And I got better and better.
It doesn't help to pity them when we know they are not doing their best. Jmo
Yes, we give him projects around the house, he is good with handy work, but after a few days he goes into this spiral of sleep for days, I think is the depression. He has smoked pot most of his life, the doctor will not give him anything for anxiety no xanax etc, which I think they should so he can get off the pot. He is not happy with his job, he use to be a paramedic but the stress was to much for him.
If he would take his medications the right way and stop the pot and do counseling he would probably function better.
Our plans are to move him out when he has an income and more stable mentally or emotionally!
My last words. He is a grown man. He may always struggle so he may be with you a very long time...forever. some 80 year olds still support 60 year old "kids."
I know about Seroquel and I get that you want to think the best of your son but my autistic son took it for a while and all he did was sleep. We stopped giving it to him. It's a very sleep inducing drug. Since it was given to him for sleep, it is puzzling that he takes it in the morning.
Xanax is very addictive. Your son needs therapy to help him learn to cope. Again, jmo. I think your kind mommy heart is making excuses for him.
In the end, we do what we can handle. We're all different.
Getting off the soap box. Good luck!
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