My mother...again....(LONG)

Discussion in 'The Watercooler' started by klmno, Sep 9, 2010.

  1. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    I couldn't sleep at all last night and mostly I had difficult child, my situation, and extended family on my mind. I thought it was just more PTSD but there might have been a little intuition mixed in. A couple of weeks ago my mother emailed me saying she wanted to send me a card and asking for a new address if I had one, then saying if she didn't hear from me she would send it to this address I've had. I didn't respond so I got another email from her saying she wouldn't send anything until she did hear from me. I emailed back saying I would be here a couple of more weeks, and asked about her dog. (difficult child and I had gotten her this dog per her request about 5 years ago and she used to mention him in every email but hasn't mentioned him at all in several months so I'm assuming something has happened to him but true to her form, she just won't tell anyone.)

    So Tues. I get an email from her telling me she'll send me a card that day. This morning I get an email asking if I got the card- I live out of state- unless she'd sent it for overnight delivery there is no way I would have it by first thing this am. Anyway, she also said in the email that she hadn't heard from difficult child and appeared shocked by that. And she wanted his address and wanted to know about his ability to have contact with family members.

    Now, I had told her he'd been recommitted and she knows what things were like last year when he was in Department of Juvenile Justice before. She never cared about seeing hiim or me and had basicly said we weren't welcome there this summer and when he was released and HE called her, she is the one who said she wanted to get off the phone after about 2 mins. She has no real interest in having a relationship with either of us- everything she does is phoney until she goes into her next mode of acting like she just wants to detach. But she won't really go away. If I try to nudge her to keep on going, she goes into the "I have grandparent's rights" mode and "I'll (she) will start making phone calls and stir up anything I (she) can to have a relationship with my grandson".

    Really- she's spent a lot more energy in trying to throw me under the bus at both difficult child's and my expense than she has in trying to have a sincere, honest relationship with difficult child. My gut tells me she only wants to write difficult child now to tell him how none of this is her fault, it's mine, and how much she loves him and wishes she could be here and wants to see him soon. Yeah- I've heard it. But, we weren't welcome at her home, she never called or visited him, and honeslty, I could hear her smile over the phone when I told her that because of her and my bro's antics, I couldn't get difficult child any more services- and they send kids who get into trouble straight to Department of Juvenile Justice if they are convinced that the kid doesn't need services- so I do blame her and my bro for this.

    Wasn't everyone here in agreement from her last email that she just wanted to detach? Then how do I "let" her, push her or whatever else it takes for her to keep on going? She isn't in my son's best interest and the only thing she said to me when I asked about why she was not more in his life but kept wanting me to tell him things like "she hoped to see him soon" was that "she didn't want him thinking she didn't care". Well, hello- if you really don't care enough to be in a person's life in a real way, then shouldn't you be big enough and at least respect the person enough to admit it, own up to it, and leave them alone? What in the world is the point to only do enough to try to convince the person that you care when you really don't?

    I kept pushing thoughts out of my mind last night that this woman was driven by hatred toward me - that surely no one would sacrafice their grandchild just because they resent their own child. But honestly, I'm starting to think she is this way. I look back over so many times she threw me under the bus as a child, how she told me giving birth to me was a horrid experience, how she put me in a crib and left me screaming for hours on end, she put me in a closet (not a dark one) and told me not to come out until she or my bro told me I could (my father was never home when this happened), she brought her bro there to live with us knowing he'd tried to molest/rape my cousin, she instigated my bro to try to get custody of difficult child, she accused me of trying to starve difficult child as a newborn and told nurses I was doing this even tho she had told me to have an abortion, she told difficult child's GAL that difficult child didn't need any services- that the problem was me, she refused to even speak to my therapist when I was in intensive therapy, ....I could go on and on.....She had all these courts people up here convinced that I was the difficult child and had been all my life- ok, then why is there nothing in a sd record to prove that? Why didn't she take me to a therapist or psychiatrist or any kind of evaluation? Why did she get a dr to put in a pregnancy test like it was hers instead of mine after I told her about the situation with her bro and me? Why were police never told? Why didn't she require her bro to stay in his treatment once he came to live with us?

    How do I just get her out of my and difficult child's life without instigating her to make 10,000 phone calls and get more koi stirred up? If I stay in this jurisdiction, she knows who to call. If I move out of it she will have to go thru more chains but can find out the jurisdiction- then if she calls them, they are most likely to give her the benefit of the doubt because they won't know the hx of it all and I have to start all over again with a whole new set of people.

    Re. this morning's email- I responded saying that I had not rec'd the card yet, asked why she thought she would hear from difficult child since I'd told her he was incarcerated and recommitted to Department of Juvenile Justice, and telling her it would be some time before he could have any form of contact because he's currently in processing however, just like last year, if she wanted to send a letter for him, I would forward it once he was allowed to have contact again.
  2. Mattsmom277

    Mattsmom277 Active Member

    Gosh, I'm sorry she just doesn't leave well enough alone.

    From one person with a dysfunctional, sick and warped mother to another? I'll tell you what I'd do (although I in no way think it is the right thing for everyone). I'd just stop. Emailing her back? No thanks. I wouldn't. Because she isn't going to suddenly be a "mom" and send a loving message and turn into a nurturing parent we'd like. So why respond? Your difficult child is no longer a young boy. Grandparents rights? Maybe that washed in earlier years. But your mother would have no leg to stand on, period. And something tells me she probably knows it. Years without proper contact. Estranged (nearly) from you. The lengthy history you listed? Even if she tried to deny it all and make you look bad instead, the odds of a judge forcing your difficult child at his age to visit because she thinks she has rights? Well if she cares so much about her rights, she'd have been seeing your son. And that's all a judge is going to see. A mother against it. A difficult child who has no real bond with her. And her suddenly wanting "rights" she hasn't enforced in the past. Soon enough your difficult child will be a adult and decide if he wants to play her game. A judge will see that too. the power she may have held with this approach no longer has the weight it had when your difficult child was younger. In fact, it has none. From a mom perspective (you) I can see how threatening it feels, given your history with your mom and other family members. However, from a third party perspective? That threat being enforcable has passed (thankfully).

    I wouldn't email back. i wouldn't pass on a forwarding address. I would unlist my phone number when I moved. If she got the number, pay the $5 a month to block her number. Just end it. Decide to end her tyranny for yourself and for difficult child. You don't owe her anything simply for bringing you into the world. You have PTSD for a reason. So do I. I can tell you what I only figured out last year or so, and it made 100% difference in my life. PTSD cannot be "therapied" away, not if you are still subjected to the same thing. And with your mom? It's not done yet. You can't heal when you are still IN it. Know what I mean?? Your healing will come when you stand up for yourself, face that fear of her threats and move on anyhow. She can't control you. Your difficult child is not going to suddenly get released to her. Honestly. What judge in their right mind is going to release him down the line to a much older grandparent, who can't get along with her own daughter, who hasn't been part of difficult child's life in any major way, when your difficult child has the issues he has to boot? None. Really. None. As for your brother? Not going to happen either. This is not a young vulnerable child any more. He's a budding young man, your difficult child is. And he can stand for himself as well. And at the very hint to a court that there was abuse from your bro to you? No judge would risk taking his word over yours, and placing your child in a place that could be risky.

    There is so much on your plate right now, and it isn't being made easier with false words and false relationships. Especially ones that trigger understandable PTSD type issues. You are about to make a huge leap of faith, strike out in a new path. You will find a new address. You will find a new job. You will find a new way to be a mother to a son who isn't living with you. You will be literally starting over. Consider this, as difficult as it has all been, as your chance to walk into a new life with your head held high and nobody behind you dragging you down. Let your mom go and let yourself live again. Living under a cloud of terror because she wants to wield power over you is not the way to go anymore. She doesn't hold the power she did when you were young, when it mattered what reports your parent gave about you, where she controlled who had access to you to harm you, where you were mother to a young child who didn't have a mind of his own etc.

    It is simply different now. Time has passed and with it is approaching a opportunity to free yourself of a life times worth of sick and twisted dysfunction. You deserve it. And she isn't going to offer it to you. You simply have to let yourself love yourself enough to go ahead and take it.

    (((hugs))) I wish things were different for you, in so many ways. I feel your story is partly mine to a degree. I so relate to so many things you say. I want you to know that I believe in you. And I believe you are at a stage of life where things can get better than you've ever known them.
  3. Marcie Mac

    Marcie Mac Just Plain Ole Tired

    "Then how do I "let" her, push her or whatever else it takes for her to keep on going?"

    I kindly suggest stop fuling her fire and giving her power over you. You get email, hit the delete button without even opening it. You get letters, cards, write on it return to sender. Don;t calll, don't give a forwarding address, change your phone number. You can try and explain yourself or waste good brain energy trying to figure out why she is like she is till you are blue in the face - she won't hear what you are telling her and you will never understand the way she parented you.

    So she starts a bunch of koi - over what exactly? If you haven't corresponded with her, talked to her on the phone, sent her emails, whats to start. If someone in the system starts questioning you if she does try and start some koi, you can honestly say "I have no clue as to what she is talking about - I haven't had any contact with her whatsoever as we have a toxic relationship - end of story. You don't have to defend yourself or try and explain, because that only serves to keep her drama going.

    There are lots of us out there that have been physically and emotionally abused and molested as children. You can't go back and change what happened. Believe me, at one point, I had so much emotional baggage I could have easily filled a couple of 747's. It took me a while in therapy to deal with it, and un-stunt my emotional growth. Now I can just shake my head when my mother opens her mouth and something stupid rolls out of it - am so over giving her any kind of emotional response - she has control issues and it infuriates her I refuse to go there anymore and let her bait me.

  4. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    I get that- but- unless the local courts of whatever jurisdiction I am in- let me back up- the jurisdiction I live in determines the juvenile court in charge of difficult child- unless the PO and GAL of the jurisdiction I live in backs me up, state Department of Juvenile Justice will NOT stop contact or limit contact between a grandparent and grandchild in their custody.

    I hope I worded that in a way that made some sense.

    I was able/ allowed to have my mother send her letters thru me so I could monitor them last year while difficult child was in Department of Juvenile Justice only because his PO sent an email to Department of Juvenile Justice saying this was warranted.

    I could tell my mother where to get off in 2 seconds but I don't want her writing or otherwise contacting difficult child to brainwash him so I have tried to handle things in a way where the contact goeas thru me. I understand he'll be 18 in a few years- but he isn't 18yo yet and God only knows what age he is mentally. I know he doesn't need her koi- not the guilt trip for not "taking care of her" blame game, extended family koi, etc.

    I am about to a point though where I got with my bro- whatever court battle it takes, just bring it on and get it over with. However, that doesn't get anywhere as long as difficult child is in Department of Juvenile Justice custody and he'll be there for over a year most likely.

    The current battle- she keep s saying she has grandparent's rights- I keep saying I have parental rights and I haven't stopped contact- I am monitoring contact. What she doesn't know yet is that without approval of PO and GAL, and subsequently Department of Juvenile Justice, I can't monitor it. And with everything in me- I KNOW she causes more harm in my son. She told him when he was about 11 or 12yo that he was getting big enough to stand up to me and I wouldn't be able to make him mind. When he'd just started a mood stabilizer and I was trying to keep him on schedule and we visited her, she woke him up during the night to ask him if he wanted to eat some desert. When he was about 9-10yo, she refused to turn off nancy grace show about the man who kidnapped, raped, and buried the little girl alive. I had to take difficult child out of the room to prevent him hearing the details.

    My issue with courts people is that they are as ignorant as my family- instead of believing me and standing up against the person they should be- they are too wrapped up in trying to fix it all. And believing the people that are lying. They are as blind and as dysfunctional as my family. BUT- it is in my MH evaluation that there was abuse in my family as a child. So yes, if this ever makes it to court I more than likely would win. The problem though is that it doesn't make it to court when the lower courts people or state Department of Juvenile Justice are in control/custody of difficult child, as they are now.
  5. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Well VA doesnt have a set statute that gives Grandparents legal rights for visitation. It does lump them in there with "other family members" but there is a whole slew of things that a court would have to look at in order to actually order visitation and two would probably block her: the psychiatric evaluation and childs age and wishes.

    One thing I would do is if she is insistent on corresponding with difficult child is tell her she needs to send them through you and he can write her back. Then I would get her letters and open them, type up a difficult child-type response and send it back. Or better yet...does she email? Tell her he has email access at this place and create a fake email account for him and let them email back and forth. Of course, its you and her all That way you know everything.
  6. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    Janet, that's evil. Therefore highly appropriate.

    klmno, if you do this, check the legality. But you also have the choice to genuinely forward stuff to difficult child if you feel it's appropriate. But whatever you do, never let on to her that this is what you are doing. No matter how tempting.

  7. LittleDudesMom

    LittleDudesMom Well-Known Member Staff Member


    I just did a quick google search and it does not appear that, in this state, she actually has visitation rights unless you authorize it. She would have to petition the court for it. If she does that, you would know immediately.

    Don't email her back.

    Just let it go.

  8. Mattsmom277

    Mattsmom277 Active Member

    WIthout having a existing court order granting her what she believes are "her rights", you are in charge of who contacts difficult child while in custody. Keep things simple, it is her who wants to make you think it could get ugly and complicated. Simply send a written letter to the facility where difficult child is, stating that as a parent you are exerting your right as a parent to say who can and can't have contact with difficult child. And tell them that your mother and brother are off limits. Period. What does this do? Eliminates your concerns about inappropriate and concerning letters to difficult child, AND eliminates the need for you to be in touch with your mother regarding being a "go between" regarding letters she sends. This will tick her off. Oh well. Just delete emails, return letters and don't take phone calls. Just walk away. You are the parent here. She WANTS to bully you and control you and difficult child. And its working. But it doesnt' have to. Call her bluff, just don't get in her face about it because it isn't worth it. What can she do? Honestly? Stand back and take your past out of the equation. What option does this leave her? The only thing is a costly and lengthy legal battle for "access". Well since she hasnt' done it yet, and since she doesn't bother visiting anyhow with difficult child, what are the odds? Okay, so even if she did it out of spite and wasted her time and yours ... what would happen? You even realize the odds of her winning are slim. I say the odds of her bothering are slim too. And whats the worse outcome? She did take you to court, she did get some contact, and you're back where you are now. Meanwhile, if it worked and she just steams and steams and bad mouths you to others, nothing has changed. Except that you stood up for you and for difficult child and ended her dominance over your lives and the choices you make for yourself and your son.

    I think with a history like you have with your family, it is almost certain that most people would have this picture of these people as "all mighty" and to believe they can get away with anything. Well for many various reasons, their ability to hold you hostage to their wishes no longer is what it perhaps once was. You really need to dig deep and past all the pain and baggage and threats and past retaliations, and look at the situation as it stands now. You really need to allow yourself to get off this roller coaster. You are allowed. Repeat it to yourself : you are allowed!!
  9. CrazyinVA

    CrazyinVA Well-Known Member Staff Member

    As much as you want to protect your son, I think you have to accept that you cannot control your mother's actions. She will do whatever it is that she will do.

    I do think that it's come to the point that you HAVE to protect yourself from her and her toxicity, and cut off contact, or at least keep it to a minimum, and very superficial. I've had to do this with my brother. If he asks about my kids, I give him a non-committal answer ("oh, they're fine.") I rarely take his calls and correspond mostly by email, so that I can think carefully over what I say in response to him. I also rarely initiate contact, I simply respond to his contact with me as needed.
  10. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    That' pretty much how I have handled contact with my mother for the past 2 years, Crazy. But even that much is too much at this point because of her "detaching" one day, and this kind of koi a week or two later. Next will come the threats to call difficult child's GAL. And she can- this is how my bro was able to tell difficult child's GAL a bunch of lies before.

    I tried this last year when difficult child was committed and believe it or not, the Department of Juvenile Justice facility told me that they would not stop a letter from anyone unless ordered by a judge or the written request came from the PO. This current PO did do as I requested so would probably do it again. If I move before difficult child is transferred to whatever facility he'll be assigned to and another request like this is sent, I don't know if I'll be able to get the next PO to do it or not. See, once I move, this PO has to forward all difficult child's stuff and transfre it to whatever jurisdiction I move to and a PO from there will be assigned.


    mm277: I worked thru a lot of it in intensive therapy before but of course, that was years before difficult child was born so the stuff pertaining to him and my family has caused an opening of an old wound. I am trying to get an appropriate therapist on board asap to work thru the current stuff going on with me, this being part of it.

    As far as grandparent rights when difficult child isn't in Department of Juvenile Justice, I had looked that up before, too, and had finally told my mother once that I didn't know what rights she thought she had, but while she had a right to have some form of contact with difficult child and visit him, which she knows I have never stopped, she does NOT have the right to tell me how to raise him or the right to require me to bring him to a different state to see her- she does not have parental rights.

    But as long as difficult child is under the authority of juvenile courts, they can over-ride anything I say or do; even the PO can. Of course this time, difficult child will most likely be 17yo when he's released again.
  11. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    A little Occupational Therapist (OT)- I just found another reason to TG I never returned to street drugs (as if raising a child isn't big enough reason.) I have the TV on and am watching cops and they stopped a woman who had a tiny bit of drugs on her- it was the same as what my drug of choice had been. Back in "my day", that tiny amount would have caused an appearance in court for possession of an amount for personal use. Things sure must have changed a lot in the past 30 years- this cop just carted her rear off to jail for it! I didn't know they'd started throwing you in jail for possession of amounts that small- it wasn't heroin. Anyway, I sat here and said to myself "TG it's not me!" That woman seemed as shocked as I would have been- she was saying "I don't understand- JAIL?? For THAT???" The cop just said "Yep" and hauled her in.

    I hope that wasn't Abbs. (JK)
  12. Star*

    Star* call 911

    klmno -

    Do you want a relationship with her?
  13. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    Nope- I was ok having an "arms-length" relationship of sorts after my intensive therapy, then especially after difficult child was born but had several reminders thru his youth that I needed to keep a close eye on things because she obviously didn't "get" what was appropriate to say, do, and expose a child to. But after the situation with my bro filing for custody and she gave me some phoney apology where she also basicly admitted that she knew what she was doing, then to continue to disrespect my wishes, refuse to acknowledge any responsibility whatsoever in difficult child's inability to get services, and not giving a darn about talking to him or seeing him UNLESS it is thru letters while he's incarcerated and she can send them directly, and knowing how manipulative and dihonest she really is?? Nope.

    But I'm willing to keep some contact with her in order to screen what she's trying to get to difficult child.

    This woman gave me store-bought brownies in plaistic wrappers for breakfast in elementary school but sat right there in front of me 15 years later and told her best friend (that my mother was mooching off of) that she cooked me breakfast every morning and I should be more grateful, then kept trying to lie about it when I spoke up and said BS. It wasn't that I couldn't or didn't survive eating the brownies for breakfast- it's the way she will lie to get others to pity her and "admire her" at my expense. And I honestly don't think she cares about difficult child being thrown under the bus either- or at least I know she won't once/if she ever figures out that he won't be a young adult male who's going to take care of her and tell her whatever she wants to hear the rest of her life. She thought my bro would do this for her if she helped him get custody of difficult child. Once she found out my bro had no intention of doing that and I was NOT about to keep my mouth shut about this family's dirty laundry, she changed that position. Now she only has one sis and difficult child left to hope for taking care of her.

    She trashed that sis for years for becoming very religious. Then once my bro stepped out of her plan, I called my mom and she had religious music on in the background. I asked what she was listening to because it was very loud. She said "oh, it's religious music- I thought the call was going to be from my sis".

    Are you starting to see what we are dealing with here? It is so bad that most everyone assumes I must be lying. But I'm not.
  14. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    I've had dealings recently with a woman (a client who also has befriended me) who sounds a lot like your mother. My 'friend' is incredibly egocentric. For years I've excused much of what she does because of the crud that happened to her growing up (I published her autobiography for her so I know the story in detail) but her latest behaviour - there is no excuse. I went online and did one of those personality disorder tests on her out of curiosity - it lit up like a Christmas tree. Narcissistic personality disorder, histrionic personality disorder and a few others.

    Your mother reminds me of my friend. The last time I spoke to my friend, she told me that if I pursued a certain course of action which I planned, she would of course have to cut off all communication with me. I do not respond to blackmail. I have not heard from her since. I am happy with this. My life is far less complicated. And if she wants her book to go into reprints, she has a lot of grovelling to do...

  15. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    Yep, Marg- I definitely believe she has a personality disorder. No normal person, angry or not, smiles when they hear that something negative or bad is happening to another family member- especially ones own child- even an adult child. It's not like I ever stole from her or did something to her to warrant her having a grudge against me. My son has done twenty times worse and I still would fight to prevent harm coming to him and to try to get anything that might help him turn things around.

    Remember though when you are looking for a therapist and something doesn't seem to be comfortable or adding up right- my mother has a PhD in psychology. But then again, my first step-father was a dr and he was one of the biggest jerks I've ever met in my life. He was prejudice, called me names, was a pervert, and just plain mean. But most of his patients were kids and had a reputation in town for being a great dr.

    And I don't blame you for handling things the way you are with this acquaintance, Marge. The sense of entitlement is remarkable in some people and just judging on how I see people deal with my mother and bro, it's the giving them the benefit of the doubt and falling for the "air" that they deserve it that keeps it working, which only feeds it to continuously get worse.
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2010
  16. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    I've often observed that the most unstable people I've ever met, were psychologists. In recent years we've been fortunate to meet some sane, sensible ones. Maybe it was from years ago... but if you think about it, it makes sense that someone with a personality disorder or other problem would want to study psychology, in the same way Temple Grandin studied animal behaviour. You study what you are most curious about, and what you are often most curious about is what helps you better understand yourself and your place in society.

    With your mother, stop trying to apply normal rules of behaviour. She would be motivated by totally different things Why would she smile at bad news about you? Because her feelings run on totally different rails to yours. It's nothing to do with what you have actually done; it all is about her, and what she wants out of the people around her. People like her are a black hole of emotional drain. They can never be filled up, they can never be pleased with you, you will always feel you have fallen short of their expectations. So to her mind, bad news for you is poetic justice. You failed her, so problems for you make her feel avenged.

    It is really important in your interactions with her, that you keep her standards in mind and not your own. The world revolves around her and it is everybody else's job to meet her needs, above all else. Your reason for existence, and your son's, and everyone else - is to keep her happy and cared for. Everything she does, is targetted to that goal. I wouldn't mind betting that her two reasons for wanting your son are:

    1) he would be a plaything, something to amuse her. A toy, to play dress-ups with. That's probably at the time she was pushing your brother to apply for custody. And

    2) she wants to groom him as yet another prospective carer for her in later life. So getting hold of him now physically is less important; keeping in contact and keeping him caring for his dear old granny is her priority. Her communication would be, "Love me. Ignore any bad things you've been told, just keep me in mind so that when I'm old and needy, you can come live with me and look after me. ANd send me money to pay for what I need."

    She's not feeling particularly old and frail right now, which is why her attempts to keep in touch with difficult child seem contradictory. She just needs to know she will be able to get her hooks into him when the time comes that she needs him.

  17. Star*

    Star* call 911

    klmno -

    Hon - I think (just my opinion as your friend FWIW) people like your Mom are toxic. I understand the logic behind wanting to see how she manipulates your son BELIEVE ME I DO (remember the letter i had to write for Dude to his bio Grandmother and Dad? Yeah -it worked) So I get that. But I also know that you CAN tell her to bugger off, mean it, and be done with her. You CAN write her a similar letter telling her to BACK OFF. Until he's 18 or maybe even 21 you have that right. I know, I was up against the KLAN...who spouted way more support and money and attorneys and people in government than I EVER knew or could hope to work five jobs and know - and won, and I wrote the letter. Me....alone - myself. It ended it in a matter of weeks, didn't drag on - didn't complicate my life......and now? Now Dude is 20......his life and relationship with his biodad and bio relations is as I KNEW it would be. Living hell doesn't begin to describe it. I wasn't sure what way that would go - but after 18? It's NOT OUR LIFE. It becomes theirs and their choices, their decisions, their problems. It took me and has taken so much of me to be able to say that because all of the last 15 years of my life with Dude have been about keeping him FROM them. And then d.a. goes and runs right to them. (well show of hands who didn't think he would?) .........and same with your son - he might just go run right to Granny - and she might fill his head with a bunch of manure - but you know what? You raised your son - HE KNOWS you love him, he KNOWS you meant well, and he KNOWS you did the best you could and by the same token? HE WILL KNOW in a short span of time - that Gma is full of as much manure as a fertilizer plant and he will make his own choice to leave her alone just like you and he'll let you know. It may be something as simple as a text message - but klmno - it will happen. When it does you can sit and exhale, and cry, or just shake your head that THE SUM of ALL your fears of years gone by, the present and all your future worries - were for nothing and you spent all this time worrying about a very bitter old woman - and a brother who is worthless, for nothing because in the end you will find out - you raised a very, intelligent and insightful son who LOVES YOU.

    I hope you understand just what I'm trying to tell you in this. Arms length with this woman? No. Marcie Mac gave you the straight skinny here - and man -------I wish I had the ability to just lay it out like that - but she's right. The woman you call Mother never Mothered you - she is toxic. Walk the rest of your life for you....and tell her to stay away from your son and mean it. What will happen in a few years will happen. Until it does? Live.

    Hugs & Love