Need Advice Fast

Discussion in 'Substance Abuse' started by Mikey, Oct 22, 2007.

  1. Mikey

    Mikey Psycho Gorilla Dad

    By now everybody knows the Saga of the Mighty McWeedy. Rebellious, unrepentant drug user, etc. Only now, we have a serious crisis and I need some advice quick...

    For the last two months, I've followed the advice of his therapist at the study and tried to make my actions about his actions. Once he turned 18, I told him that he was no longer entitled to anything that we didn't want to give. And that we were within our "rights" to ask that he observe basic rules and accept basic responsibilities if he wanted to continue living in our home and taking advantage of my benefits (insurance, etc).

    Lots of angst, lots of acting out, basically McWeedy trying to keep his current load of benefits without having to grow up. He ratcheted up his acting out, which has caused problems with the family (hence my other post).

    What I thought would happen was that McWeedy would finally realize he had to choose between trying to live life as he chose on his own, or to compromise with us and continue to live at home (with whatever benefits we could share). Last week at parent/teacher conferences, we heard over and over that McWeedy was really "thinking" about (i.e concerned over) having to possibly leave the house in January.

    He's in a class called "On Your Own" which is supposed to help teens figure out how to live, well, on your own. The teacher for that class told us that McWeedy was distressed when he found out how hard it would be to move out, and that basically he'd be trading an unacceptably constrained life at home for a life of hard work and little reward away from home (primarily because he couldn't go to college).

    I was a little bit heartened to hear that because I thought that finally, McWeedy was starting to see that the world outside our house wasn't the easy-going, bong-filled paradise he thought it would be. I hoped that would soften him a bit towards us.

    I found out last night that maybe I was wrong.

    I was trying to get him to honestly evaluate his two options, and choose one. What I didn't count on was him looking at a third option - suicide.

    wife was cleaning up his room over the weekend (after he'd run away again), and found a notebook where he'd written a poem about killing himself with a gun. The end of the poems reads Every day as I lie down to bed, I realize how much life really doesn't have to offer, and how hopeless it is to dream of a better future.

    This isn't a "threat", because I'm certain he never meant for us to see it. And I don't know how long ago he wrote it - maybe two weeks, maybe two months. He's also written things in the past about how his life is basically lost and hopeless, but never talked about ending it.

    For the life of me, I never thought that the two choices he had were so abhorrent that he'd even consider killing himself rather than pick between them.

    I spoke with the docs at the study (they know him best, right now), and they suggested immediate hospitalization for evaluation. I'm sure they're right, but I've never been down this road before. I'm not even sure I could get him to go willingly, which means using cops or someone else to forceably take him to a lock-down facility. If he hates me now, that will only cement the feelings because he'll never see it as a loving, caring gesture on my part. He'll see it as yet another attempt to rule and constrain him against his will.

    I'm going to talk to wife as soon as I can get her on the phone, and am going to call one of the local hospitals that has a dual-diagnostic adolescent unit to see if they have a bed. Again, I've never been here before. And while I'm going to do whatever I have to, I can't help but feel guilty that I've forced him into this position (not true, but I still feel that way). As his therapist told me, "there's no reason he should feel such despair over his life that suicide is even a passing thought in his mind".

    I don't know how wife will react to this, even though she's the one that found the letter and brought it to me. She did, however, tell McWeedy last night (for the first time) that he needed to get out of school, get into rehab, get his life straight, then come back home and try to start anew with us to help. But I don't think we can wait that long, now. The docs were adamant - he needs to be evaluated immediately.

    So - any thoughts or advice? Anything would be much appreciated.

    Thanks in advance,
  2. lovemysons

    lovemysons Well-Known Member

    Hi Mickey,
    I suggest having the docs talk to wife. You two need to be on the same page about this.

    If the docs insist Mcweedy needs hospitalization because they "know him best right now"...then I think this is the direction you all should go.

    Yes, be prepared to need the police to help carry this out, been there done that.

    I hope the "guilt" you feel will subside. You are not doing this to your son you are acting on the well being of your son. You are left with few choices when you feel it's a true matter of life and death. Do what you have to do regardless of anger or name calling that may happen in the interem.

    I hope the calmest most rational heads prevail with your dilemma...Easy does it.

    My thoughts and a prayer go out to you and your family.

    lovemysons you all own any guns?
  3. Big Bad Kitty

    Big Bad Kitty lolcat


    At this point in the game, I agree that he needs an evaluation right away.

    This is going to be tough. He may hate you for it. It would really be a shame if wife let you do it all on your own too. What needs to happen is the TWO. OF. YOU. approach this together and have him taken to a hospital. He needs to see you in this together. Not siding against him, not angry at him, but loving and caring about him, and concerned for his very life.

    yeah, he may be mad at you. But down the road, he will thank you.

    Immediate prayers for your family.
  4. goldenguru

    goldenguru Active Member

    Well I certainly agree with the therapist who pointed out that this 'decision' of whether to stay home or move out should not be causing a level of stress that would precipitate thoughts of suicide. There is clearly more going on than the decision looming in January.

    Is he depressed? Is it the drugs? You're going to need professional help sorting this one out.

    You know your son best. If you feel this is truly suicidal ideation that get him admitted FAST.

    My daughters journals were filled with dark, death centered writings. And she tells us now how close she came to suicide. Very, very close. It is likely that since your son was journaling these things in a private venue that these are real thoughts crossing his mind ... as opposed to yelling these things in anger or to manipulate you in some way.

    Is he going to me mad? You bet he is. First your wife found and read his private journals. He's going to be mad. Then he'll be mad that you are imposing more constraints on him. He'll be mad about a lot of things probably. That's OK. In time he will come to realize that you did this out of love and concern for him. In time he'll get it.

    We had to admit our daughter twice to a psychiatric facility. Trust me ... she didn't go voluntarily. It's not as scary as you might think.

    Listen to his doctors. I agree he need immediate inpatient treatment and assessment. He also needs to be kept safe.

    Let us know how things are.

  5. KFld

    KFld New Member

    Ask yourself one question. Will you feel guiltier about getting him help and letting him hate your for awhile, or that you could have prevented him from killing himself, and you didn't?

    I know that is blunt, but it is what it is.

    As Goldenguru said, he wrote it somewhere that he wasn't expecting you to see it. He's not screaming it in your face to manipualte you. These are his true feelings, written in black and white.

    Make sure before you make that call that you and wife sit down and talk about this and agree to agree on this. You cannot have them walk in the door and then wife decides, or you for that matter, that you can't go through with this and that you won't let them take him. Then he would hate you for calling and he won't get the help he needs on top of it.

    You know in your heart what you need to do. We are all behind you 100%
  6. everywoman

    everywoman Active Member

    Mikey: been there done that---more than once. Marijuana is a depressant---if only these kids knew what they were doing to their brain. First, you and wife have to be a united front on this. She can't expect you to be the bad guy. Second, you need to plan everything out and not confront him with your choice. What I had to do was go to my probate judge, have him sign a form stating difficult child needed to be evaluated, took it to the sheriff's office, and then went home and waited for difficult child to show. When he did, I quietly called and they came and picked him up. They took him to the local hospital and had a guard outside his room. They did a drug test and had a counselor from mental health come and talk to him. Then they found a bed and the sheriff's dept. transported him to the facility. He was there for a week. We were able to see him several times. We had family counseling twice. He now knows why we had to do what he did, but it still affects our relationship.
  7. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Grandpa

    Hi Mikey,

    Karen is right, now is not the time to worry about him hating you for the rest of his life. Unlike suicide, that could change, and probably will, in time.

    Intervention looks like the only option right now.

    Thoughts and prayers.
  8. rejectedmom

    rejectedmom New Member

    Whenever a person speakes of suicide as an option it must be taken seriously. I had my difficult child hospitalized twice for this reason even though I never believed he would actually follow through. The thing is, you simply cannot take the chance of being wrong. I do hope that wife gets on the same page with you on this and didn't just show this ournal to you to make you feel guilty about your relationship with your difficult child. But even if she isn't onboard with hospitalizing your son you must follow through. The stakes are simply too high not to. -RM
  9. meowbunny

    meowbunny New Member

    Yes, he's going to be mad at you. He's even going to be mad at wife for showing you his work.

    However, this honestly sounds like a lot of manipulation on his part. He knows his mom will clean his room. He's bound to realize she will read what he writes -- she loves him and is proud of his work (and curious). I'm willing to bet his thought process was something like, "Hmmm ... I'll write this poem, make it sound like I'm really suicidal because I can't do what I want here and I don't want to be responsible for taking care of myself. If they find this, mom will make dad let me stay and do what I want." Hospitalization did not cross his mind.

    That being said, even if you knew positively it was nothing but manipulation, I agree you have to have him hospitalized. Since he is now 18, I imagine you'll have to do as everywoman did -- see the judge first. I would get to work on this very, very quickly.

    I wish I could say I'm sorry it has come to this, but I'm not. It may just be the best thing has happened. I'm pretty sure they will require family therapy while he is there or at least offer it as an option. Maybe it will open wife's eyes and give you the third (and probably best) option -- rehab for McWeedy.

  10. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    Sending supportive thoughts and prayers to you and your family.
  11. flutterbee

    flutterbee Guest

    I agree wholeheartedly with what the others have said. Besides the immediate risk of suicide, studies have linked untreated, long-term depression to a host of physical ailments such as heart disease and cancer.

    Someone asked if you own any guns. If you do, get them out of the house. Now.
  12. Ephchap

    Ephchap Active Member


    Go immediately to psychiatric hospital. Do not pass go. Do not collect $200. Do not worry if wife is mad at you. Do not worry if your son is mad at you.

    Saving his life trumps all else.

    If you've read any of my posts, my son was forced into treatment - twice. Yes, we had police come into our home once and physically take him by surprise. He was handcuffed and driven to the psychiatric hospital.

    My son doesn't hate me for it, although at the time he shouted every obscenity at me. Yes, at the time it hurt. It hurt like he##.

    But I did what I had to do to keep my son alive.

    I just posted that my son is now a homeowner and got a new job at a factory because he's going to be a dad. It might not be the life I thought he'd have prior to his drugging, but he's turned things around, has stepped up to the plate and is doing very well. Had I not forced his hand way back when, I know in my heart that he would not have made it to this point.

    Take him or have him taken. The way he gets there really doesn't matter. He needs to go. in my humble opinion.

  13. I will never forget the words that difficult child's psychiatrist said to me when I brought him to the ER the morning AFTER he tried to hurt himself. I thought it was acting out. He said loud and clear in my face "YOU ARE NOT EDUCATED OR QUALIFIED TO MAKE THAT DECISION".

    Take him to the ER. They will get him a bed somewhere. If he fights, they will tranquilize him. He will hate you for now, my difficult child screamed and fought and they brought security, but it saved his life.

    Mikey, I know you're scared and you're shocked. It's a devastating feeling to know that your child is in so much pain that they want to end their lives, but you have to know that the drugs are clouding his vision and maybe, they are covering his depression as well.

    Please hang in there and let us know how things go.

    Many prayers going up for you and your family!
  14. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member

    One more who says get him help now.

    I always thought my son would never think of attempting suicide. I thought he was simply a pothead and that he thought way too much of himself for that.

    That was until July 17th of this year when I came home to find my oldest son almost hysterical because Cory had found a bottle of my trazadone and chewed them up and he was staggering around in a daze. We called 911 and the police and paramedics showed up to have him taken in. It was a deliberate attempt to end his life because of something that someone said to him. What doesnt matter but he felt life wasnt going to be worth living.

    It can happen, it does happen.

    I have also attempted before but thankfully Im still here.

    Dont worry about anyone getting mad, if they are mad it means they are still alive to be mad. That is better than the alternative.
  15. KFld

    KFld New Member

    Mikey, we are waiting patiently to hear the outcome. I really hope and pray that you and wife were able to get on the same page and make a decision together that was the best for your son.

    Maybe this will be the breakthrough that will bring you and wife that step closer to being there for each other, which in the end will mean you can both be there for your son.
  16. meowbunny

    meowbunny New Member

    Folks, I think you may have misunderstood me. I think it was a manipulation but I also think he should be hospitalized ASAP. However, I'm afraid he'll convince the intake physician that it was an old note and meant nothing whereas if there is a court order, they'll take him regardless.
  17. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    My daughter pulled a knife on herself while high. I called 9-1-1 hoping to get her help, but also because I was afraid for her life. I wanted an ambulance, but, yup, a police car came and he handcuffed her (for her own sake) and took her to the hospital. Her parting words to me were, "I'll hate you forever" (she doesn't). After she left we searched her room and found two other sharp knives under her mattress. Take him to the hospital. If somebody is suicidal they have no choice but to be involuntarily committed. Take the letter with you for proof. You have no idea if he is manipulating you or serious. As I've said before, he is likely taking more than just pot and may be in so deep he has no way to climb out. And, no, that shouldn't make you softer on him. You want him alive? Take him to a hospital and don't make it safe, luxurious and easy for him to use. (((Hugs)))
  18. PonyGirl

    PonyGirl Warrior Parent

    Hoping everything is okay. Thinking that if wife was not willing to concede drug addiction as a real problem, she may not see suicide as a real threat. Hospitalization seems a much larger hurdle than Treatment. I'm afraid that wife won't get on the same page, and you'll be standing alone, again.

    Whether or not the threat is real, present or past, it remains obvious that McW is unable to process his choices about his life. Sure some of it is teen angst, but most of it is brain damage due to his drug use. He's overreacting and feeling like a victim. He is unable to face reality. He is going to need outside intervention in any event if there is to be any hope of being a well-adjusted human being.

    (((((Hugs)))) to you Mikey. We are all here standing behind you, wishing we could be standing beside you, as you make your way down this latest lonely path.

  19. ck1

    ck1 New Member

    I completely agree with Meowbunny! He absolutely needs to be evaluated and taken seriously, but it <u>could</u> be a form of manipulation and if you're feeling guilty because, "you forced him into this position" then his technique is working. His actions, alone, got him in this position but it's up to you, as a responsible parent, to get him help now!!
  20. Mikey

    Mikey Psycho Gorilla Dad

    Quick update, but not necessarily a good one.

    wife and I talked it over, and I already had two facilities that said they could take him. She called him and got him to come home, where he promptly convinced wife that he was just PO'd when he wrote that note "a long time ago", and that he's not suicidal. He went on to say that he's been down for a few days because his girlfriend is out of town, and because another couple of guys want to beat him up because they think he's hitting on the girlfriend of one of them. While wife and I were trying to talk to him, he kept getting phone calls and text messages from these bozos trying to get him to come out and fight them.

    Suffice it to say that he wasn't "in the mood" to discuss his note.

    I tried for an hour to convince him to go in for an evaluation, to which I got a hearty "HE__ NO"!, followed up (in private) with wife saying that she believed him. Dancer even cornered him when we didn't know it and confronted him on it (we told her what was going on), and she didn't believe that McWeedy was anything other than mad when he wrote that note.

    I may not be as worried (now), but I still think he needs to be seen ASAP. However, I find myself in the minority (again) on this. He has a followup with the docs from the study in about 10 days (the same docs who said he needed to be taken in last night), and his teachers at school are aware of the situation. I don't like it, but the only thing I can do that won't get ME kicked out of the house is to trust that wife and Dancer are better judges of McWeedy than I am, that his teachers will keep a close eye on him, and that the docs will give him a thorough going-over when he sees them again.

    Yes, I could still try and force the issue, but according to the two hospitals we'd have to get a court order to hold him since he's over 18. If wife and I were on the same page, that would be easy. Since we're not, I could get him taken to the hospital, where he would promptly sign himself out - and I couldn't get the court to go along with holding him when wife doesn't support it. Also, if I force the issue and end up having to leave because I've PO'd my family - and if McWeedy is lying, then the only person who has any desire to see through the lies will be out of the house.

    Like I said, not necessarily the best outcome, but the best I could manage. It's going to be a rough two weeks for me until he gets back to the docs for a follow-up.

    Thanks for the support, everyone. I appreciate it.