need some input

[standswithcourage]

Well I need some more wisdom from everyone here. My son is now going to outpatient meetings 3 times a week for 3 hours each. He is living at home. I dont know if he is really serious or not. It is very hard for him during the day because he has no medicine to help him. He is on probation for six months - anyway my question - he asks me to take him to the doctor to get something to help him sleep and for his nerves - well I dont know if his outpatient place would think that a benzo or narcotic would be good for him - so I say no - if you need something ask them in your meeting what to do or I will take you to the mental heealth place here or the health department or get something over the counter for sleep! He always says no - he wants a family doctor - about one hundred dollars and medications from them - another one hundred probably - last time i filled a prescription for him he took all of the pills or sold them or something so I told him I would not - so what do I do with him when he starts this - is my answer good enough - it is about to get on my nerves again and I know we should have never let him in but I thought he was trying - he is trying to stay off pot and that is killing him but it is killing us to continue thhis = he hasnt gotten his job back yet = he has to see the probation officer on the 24th of this month - he will probably test positive - who knows if they will do anything - he asked us if he could stay for three weeks and my husband is holding him to it - there is a place he could go and have evertyhing taken care of = transportation, job, everything but he cant drink beer there! He doesnt want to go - so what do we do - keep letting him try - and drive him everywhere - probation meeting, outpatient meeting, work, he is supposed to do community service, etc!!!!!!!! This will drive us crazy - we cant do it - so what now! Am I thinking about this correctly

 

[Suz]

"Insanity is doing the same things over and over and expecting different results."

Think about it.

Suz

 

[flutterbee]

Am I thinking about this correctly

No.

You told him he couldn't stay. He is.

He wants to go to the doctor to get drugs. He will abuse them or sell them. You know this.

You do know that mixing alcohol and xanax is a lethal combination, right? It can kill him.

If he needs to sleep, give him benadryl.

Your son is playing you. Not a single thing about his actions say that he's trying to get better. Not one thing.

 

[standswithcourage]

Thanks and yes I agree with the benedryl - he knows it can help him sleep - he says he needs something to help him take the edge off well I have been around that block and I am not going again with the drugs - I dont know how this is going to work at all. I know I must be insane. I am going to have to trust my Higher Power to bring me back and give me the wisdom to make another decision for my own sanity and serenity. I have been reading my literature but it means so much to actually see input from you all. It is just something wwe share.

 

[susiestar]

Susan,

You have been here before. You have gotten so many responses each time. Mostly each response says the same thing. Yet you continue to do what you say you will not, what you say you know is wrong, etc....

Do you see a problem with YOUR behavior? Your son "needs" something to take the edge off? I call BS. Esp if he is drinking.

This is so unfair to your other son. He must feel that you totally don't care about him. You keep moving this person who abuses him and steals his stuff back into his home after PROMISING him that you will never have him live with you again. I am sure your daughter feels equally unvalued as well.

With all you invest in your difficult child, who is a grown MAN, you STEAL from your son, who is 18, but not yet a grown man.

You say you "understand", but you keep doing the same thing. You even have the NERVE to keep coming here to ask us if it is OK.

And you want to whine about driving difficult child all over to meetings and probation and docs?

I think WE should get to whine about how you come in and beg and plead for insight and guidance and then ignore anything and everything that is said to you here. I think your other children are the ones who should get to WHINE about how you spend all your energy trying to fix difficult child when you know darn well you should not let him into your home or give him any kind of support at all.

YOU are as bad as any drug pusher. YOU enable this man in his addiction to an incredible degree. Shame on you.

My sympathies to your other children. Even to your difficult child, who you infantilize at every turn by not forcing him to deal with his life like the grown man that he is.

 

[mom_to_3]

I ran across these helpful pointers. Maybe you can find something useful in them:

If your child is experiencing medical or legal crises, point to these as examples that show the extent of the problem. When the acute impacts of the crisis have been alleviated, talk about the need for help. In these situations, help has a very good chance of being accepted.
Resist the urge to enable the substance use to continue by rescuing your child from the negative consequences without pressuring him to seek help. People often decide to change their behavior because they experience painful crises. If you rescue your child, you will reduce the impact of those experiences. Do not tell lies to cover for your child's behavior. Do not let your son stay at your home when he's been thrown out of his home. Do not explain to your daughter's boss that her belligerent behavior is not really "her" but caused by "stress."
You need to set boundaries. If you think your child has a substance use problem, you can start setting limits by not allowing drinking or drug use around you. Be clear about what behavior you will and will not tolerate. Don't be afraid to set clear rules including 1) Do not come to my home drunk, high, or with drugs on you. 2) If you visit us when you are high, we will not let you in. 3) None of your friends can come here drunk, high, or with drugs on them. 4) If you or your friends refuse to leave, we'll call the police.
Tell your child that you won't accept verbal promises and that he must take positive action to back up his words.
Get support for yourself. Al-anon and/or professional help can help give you the confidence to take a firm stand with your child -- and maintain it for the long haul. Also, support will help you take care of yourself -- one of the most important steps you can take to help your son or daughter.

I really hope you can put this tips into practise and that you somehow are able to detach from your son until he cleans up for a substantial period of time. I do wish you relief and peace.

 

[DammitJanet]

I am going to offer different advice this time since the reams of advice that we have given before havent seemed to help at all.

This time I think you should save the $100 you would spend at the DR office and the $75 you would spend on a prescription and go find your local weed dealer. That should buy you about a months worth of grass if you ration it well. You roll it into joints for him and dispense them one or two a day.

Hey...you have been subsidizing his drug habit anyway, why not go all out? Stop beating around the bush. If you are ok with him smoking pot and dont mind funding it....then stop making it an issue. If you do mind funding it well...then you have to make a choice here.

 

[Hound dog]

Stands, he's playing you like a finely tuned instrument, and you're letting him.

All he has to do is pretend to want to get off drugs and you and husband stumble all over yourselves to accomodate him.

If he wants help he knows how to get it. YOU don't have to help him with a thing. If you want off the Merry-go-round, then step off.

Like Janet said.....otherwise you might as well go out and just buy the stuff for him. That's what all your "help" is doing anyway. Just drop the middle man routine.

You can't make him stop. You can't convince him to stop. You can't help him with this. He has to do it himself.

 

[donna723]

"It is very hard for him during the day because he has no medicine to help him."

"he asks me to take him to the doctor to get something to help him sleep and for his nerves "

"he wants a family doctor - about one hundred dollars and medications from them"

"last time i filled a prescription for him he took all of the pills or sold them or something"

Stands, this is all classic "drug seeking" behavior! I'm sure those family practice doctors that he wants you to take him to are very familiar with it. There is absolutely NOTHING here to indicate that he has any intention of giving up drugs. It just shows that he has learned a good way to get them. And an abuse of prescription drugs is just as bad as an abuse of illegal drugs! He actually has you convinced that he NEEDS medication "for his nerves" and "to help him sleep"! That's what they all say!

And Lisa is right. He's playing you like a fiddle! All he has to do is to convince you of his sincerity and there you go again ... letting him move back in (which you said you would not do!), chauffering him around, and worrying about him like he was a child! And after everything that has happened, he actually has you debating whether you should take him to a doctor to get more pills! You're actually considering whether you should drive him to the doctor and then pay for the pills! He asks you these things because he knows there is a very good chance that you will give in! And now he's back in your house AGAIN and you will have to go through it all AGAIN trying to get him out and worrying about where he will go!

What should you say when he asks you? Just say NO! If he asks you again, say NO! again! And again and again, until he learns that you mean it (but I don't think you really do)!

 

[BusynMember]

I like Janet's idea. Embrace his drug use and give him a drug allowance, which is what you are doing anyway. Let him stay home and support him while he does nothing but use drugs, and you won't feel guilty about having thrown him out. He will have a place to live because you will never make him leave--and you can feel like you aren't abandoning your poor son. You can pay for his habits without pretending you aren't helping him because every dime you give him will go to drugs. Just admit it and do it. It will all be out in the open. I like this better than the deception.
You DO know that drug rehabs are parking lots for drug traffic, don't you? My daughter used to hang at them for her drugs. You know, in your heart, that he isn't going to resist anyone offering him drugs, no matter where it's at--on a street corner or in the parking lot of a drug rehab or from a doctor who believes he is filling a legitimate prescription. It's all the same. Unless he wants to quit, the rehab is probably a fun place for him to buy and trade drugs, so may as well help him fund it. It doesn't seem that you are willing to detach from him, no matter what he does or how old he gets, so just be honest with yourself about how the money will be used. He wants you to buy these sedatives legally so that he won't get into legal trouble. If you are going to go along with that, admit it and just do it. Help him use the drugs being honest with yourself.

Your son is a hardcore drug addict. He's no longer just dabbling. He knows exactly what he's doing and he knows how to play you. If you are going to play along, why pretend you aren't? Why ask us for help or go to Al-Anon when you aren't going to use anything you hear? Every watch the criminals on Tru-TV? That's a true picture of your son.

 

[catwoman]

I think I've probably said this before, but I'm going to say it again.
YOU ARE NOT LISTENING. You come here asking for advice but what you're looking for is sympathy. YOU ARE ADDICTED TO THIS WAY OF LIFE. Stop trying to be his friend. Stop trying to make him love you and appreciate what you're doing for him. It's not going to happen. He knows exactly what he's doing and see's you as too dumb to realize it. You are so afraid of not having him in your life that you are willing to put up with ANYTHING to keep him there, at the expense of your family. If you truly LISTEN to what these very smart women are telling you, you will kick his butt out. He will survive. Am I being judgemental? Yes, I've been there, done that. I put my son in jail. He will probably never forgive me, and barely speaks to me. BUT I HAVE MY LIFE BACK. Of course I love him and worry about him. But I've learned to live without the constant chaos that having him in my live caused. And guess what, It's amazing. And he manages without me. Our sons are adults who, because of their illness, will probably never be capable of the kind of relationship with us that we dream of. We can accept that and save ourselves or allow them to destroy our lives.

 

[Nomad]

The others have given wise advice.
I don''t have much experience with substance abuse...but my guess is that repetitive maladaptive patterns are at play and they gain leverage by mainpulation. You can put back the balance by not playing the game.
I like the idea that your son is going to meetings 3 times a week for 3 hours. Is this consistent? I would absolutely not even consider giving him any medication for sleep or anything else. You are totally right in having him take up such requests with his group or a physician. One suggestion would be to see if he could take something natural from the health food store. If this is okay'd...it should be in wrting. Is he 25? The more he does for himself, the better. I'd hand him a phone number to the bus comapny or a bus route (or something like this) if transportation is needed and then stay out of it. I would greatly limit driving him places. Greatly. Only under very special circumstances. You can help him in limited ways if you would like, but that's about it. You have your own life to lead and it is in his own best interest for him to learn how to live his. Are you going to a support group for yourself? If not, I hope you will consider it.

 

[ThreeShadows]

Throw.him.the Hell.out!!!

I feel like I've just shed 50lbs because difficult child 2 is gone. I won't take his calls. He has given up trying to contact us. He's not pulling our strings anymore, he's living with some other "family" which he can manipulate.

Life is getting better, we can focus on our easy child. We just went to a ceremony honoring the students who made High Honors, easy child was one of them. difficult child 2 did not cross my mind once. Ah, sweet freedom!!!

 

[standswithcourage]

Oh I understand so much. It will probably come to that unless he goes to jail first. he is still smoking pot I am sure. he has been more sober but it still stops my life - I dont see an end to it - I just know I want him to get help and he hasnt had any pills but he still wants them. I know I shouldnt say this but sometimes I just feel sorry for him - what a way to live - I always just want to make sure before we throw him out again we have given him a fair shake - he hasnt been anywhere today - stayed at home with my son that had to go to the dentist for an implant. It is just crazy. I did offer to take him to an NA meeting and he said he didnt want to go. All his friends either smoke weed, drink alcohol and take pills are know where to get them.

 

[standswithcourage]

Ok guys - my last post was ridiculous! I know I will get your honest thoughts. Thanks for them - I am so trying to get through this without going crazy. My husband is givning him one more week. My son called his boss today again about his job - who knows but he is supposed to have a job, be drug free, do community service, etc.

 

[flutterbee]

My honest thoughts:

Your relationship with your son is extremely unhealthy for everyone involved. The shear amount of idealization you place on him is amazing. You think fixing him will fix you, but the two are not inter-related.

Fair shakes? Seriously? I can't count the number of times you have rescued, saved and enabled him while you've been on this board.

You're going to enable your son to death. Literally.

And I'm not going to feed into your addiction anymore.

 

[Hound dog]

Stands, you're right. Drug addicted is a pathetic way to live. Having that drug be your whole universe to the point where you don't give a d amn that you're making your parents lives a living h ell is pathetic.

Somehow you have to get it thru your head that he doesn't give a d amn about anything except the drugs. What comes out of his mouth is only to get more drugs. Period. He doesn't care about family. He doesn't care about friends. He doesn't care about going to jail. (except it will be harder to get drugs) His whole life right now is the next fix. And he will do and say whatever it takes to get it. He doesn't care who he hurts, or what lives he distroys in the process. He will stoop to whatever drastic measures it takes to get high, legal or illegal. It doesn't matter if they're street drugs or if he has a script for them.

His "nerves" and inablility to sleep are called withdrawl.

That is his reality.

The only way to get thru this without going crazy is to walk away from it. There is nothing you or husband can do to help. Not one d amn thing.

Your son has to come to realise what a pathetic destructive existence drug addiction is before he is even going to being to think about changing it.

If you need someone to mother and support, switch your focus onto your younger son. He needs you too.

 

[C.J.]

Susan,

I have a younger sister who is 45 years old. She started dabbling in drugs 30 years ago. She looks like she's MY older sister. Her face is pock marked. Her two front teeth have been broken. She's lost custody of two children - permanently ten years ago. She's been through rehab four times. She's never seen her grandson - the cutest little three year old around.

Until we knew better, we tried to "SAVE HER." Thousands of dollars later, some of it credit card debt, she was no better. SHE WAS WORSE.

She has continued to find someone who will listen to her tale of woe, believe her lies, and allow her to manipulate them too. Her latest enabler was a man who lives on SSI in Section 8 housing. I got a call from him one day, telling me how awful he thought I was for treating "family" the way I did. I told him he could call me back one day to commiserate when she'd taken him for all she could. It took some time, but when he called, he asked how to make all the creditors, drug pushers and pimps stop calling him at all hours of the day and night. I told him to get a new phone number.

This is your life - on drugs.

 

[Nomad]

I re read your first post.
Is he missing those outpatient meetings?
Is he still using?
I think either one of these things should mean he would have to go.
He has a place to go...but doesn't like their rules. Does he like anyone's rules? Would he be okay if you had rules?
All these things are his problems...NOT yours.
If he refuses to move out, so be it. He'll have to make do at the home's of friends or on the streets.
Those are logical consequences to poor choices. (impact) You have gone above and beyond. You can't keep this up forever. It is a bottom-less pit.
It makes no sense that he is at your place and not trying his best to get better.
In the mean time, you are likely enabling him and should be working on your own personal needs. There seems to be co-dependent issues here. Are you seeing your own therapist? Are you going to Al Anon meetings?
When a person in a family is doing so poorly (alcoholism/mental illness) the family is at high risk for "dysfuntion."
This is why you need either group support or treatment.
You can become part of the cycle.
If you can't afford a therapist, etc....google the words "co-dependent" or "al-anon" and read up or go to the library and see what you can find to read.
However, chances are there is a Family's Anonymous or Al Anon meeting somewhere near you.
You said you were worried about "going crazy."
Chances are the stress in your household is escalating and my guess is that you find yourself unable to cope.
What are the "logical consequences" to some of your choices in this?
The first steps out might be to think differently about it. To understand that this is not your fault (however...you are not helping right now and could even be making things worse). Even if you did things in the past that you regret, you have done what you could to try to compensate (given your son plenty of opportunities) and he has chosen to continue his maladaptive behavior. It is up to him to make changes. These choices are his and his alone. Things are worsening. Extra choices for him at this point means worse behavior. This does not mean that you do not love your son. This does not mean that you do not tell your son that you love him. It simply means that you hold him accountable for poor choices (ironically...this could HELP him!) and that you hold your head up high and move on with your life.
in my humble opinion, most of your thinking about this is not "correct." You are treating your son as if he is a young child. You are conflicted and filled with fear and anxiety. You need significant help, but are not reaching out for it appropriately at all.
As many have said here repeatedly...get support for yourself. Go to Al anon or Families Anonymous. What about NA? Are you going regularly? Have you received input recently? I think this type of feedback would be preferred here.

 

[goldenguru]

he has been more sober but it still stops my life - I dont see an end to it -

With all do respect - You ALLOW it to stop your life and you don't see an end to it because you refuse to allow an end to it.

Stands - YOU are part of the problem. And until you realize that, and change that, you are going to continue to be part of the problem.

Please re read "Co Dependent No More". Please.