need some input

[missy44]

This is such a sad situation. I am just beginning the battle but have realized that my "tough love" is the only thing getting me through and the only thing that might save my 18 year old son.

He's only 18 and brought pot into our house on three different occasions (3 strikes and you're out). The last time i found it i gave him 5 minutes to leave. It's been hard, I feel guilt and sadness and I worry to no end, but he was NOT getting any better or making any changes while living in my home. Not to mention he was making everyone's life a living hell. We are still offering him help when he is ready, not in our house, but you can bet your life we'll do whatever we can for him when he says HE's ready for help. But he will NEVER live in my home again after his lies, his mental abuse, or his drug habit. His siblings will continue to have a normal, happy life and so will my husband and I. Occasionally we call him, take him out to a hockey game or to his grandparents for special occasions, but for the most part we only talk via the computer. It's too painful for me to see him.
Please try not to enable him. DON"T give him money, he has done nothing to deserve it. DON"T let him get drugs under your roof (prescription or not).
If I were you I would pack his bags and send him out the door. Tell him you love him, tell him you want him to get help and when he's ready you'll support him, but DON"T let him ruin your life or the lives of the rest of your family. If he's going to kill himself with drugs and ruin his life, he's going to do whether or not he's with you or on his own.
As i said above, I am new to this, I'm not an expert. I still cry every day and feel guilty and question my decisions and my hard nosed attitude. I love my son and would go to the ends of the earth for him, but I also love my other wonderful, law abiding, smart, healthy, and loving children. And they deserve all the attention I have given my oldest son. My son will make his choices, I pray they will eventually be the right decisions, but I have realized that I cannot control them.
I feel for you, but really you need to let him go... how can he grow up and face the consequences if you keep bailing him out. He should be getting his own rides, paying rent, feeding himself, etc.... He's an adult.
Take care of yourself and go and talk to someone. You deserve some sanity. We've all done the best we can do, we make mistakes along the way, but that's the way life is. Sometimes GREAT parents have kids that make BAD choices...

 

[Steely]

You know Stands, I just don't have it in me to be harsh with you - because I think you are just so lost. And I have been very lost. So I will not judge.

I will ask however-
Have you read Co-Dependent No More? Do you know that you are as mentally sick as your son? Do you know that you are perpetrating his illness by enabling him? In other words, do you know that you are making him sicker and more of a drug addict by YOUR behavior and choices?

I wonder if you could respond to one of these questions, and tell us what definitive action you are taking to make yourself healthy? Because I am afraid you might be sicker than he is. Until you get help, he will not.

Go see a counselor. That is the kind of help you need. More than Al-Anon or us, you need a counselor for yourself that specializes in these kinds of familial dysfunctions.

 

[Fran]

Sorry that it's the same old story.
It's pitiful to watch one of our kids make the same sorry choices. I can understand that you feel badly for him. He is your son after all. You have been entrusted with his care.
Doesn't sound like you are making choices that are in his best interest. Getting help to work smarter at parenting and not harder seems like a logical way to go.
In the end, only he can change his behavior and only you can change yours. Start fresh tomorrow morning with a more balanced parenting plan. Get some help to learn parenting a drug addicted son and promise yourself that you will live your life and not let his addiction **** the life out of every family member who lives in your home. It's possible that he will sink the whole family.

 

[everywoman]

Drug addiction is such an ugly, ugly thing. An addict is going to use until it becomes uncomfortable for them to use any longer. Do not make life comfortable for him. If he has to stay in your home, make sure to lock all valuables away. Do not answer his phone calls. Turn the phone off if you need to because he will call over and over again. Yes, he is feeling anxious and uncomfortable. He is coming off of drugs. That's what happens when your body is detoxing the drugs out of you. I understand wanting to help, I think you are confused about how to help. After all this time, you still don't understand detachment. You do not make life comfortable for an addict.

 

[BusynMember]

Missy, you seem to have gotten it early, and caught on. I have high hopes that your son may turn it around. He is still young and you aren't enabling him. I know how hard it is to make your own child leave the house. I had to do it for the sake of my other two younger children who got tired of the cops dropping by and her rage fits that were caused by the drugs. Her "friends" were scary too--I didn't want these criminals hanging around. If drugs are found in your house you can be held accountable. I found a bong in my car once (sorry for the word, but I don't know what else to call it...lol). I was so freaked out that I threw it out the window in the middle of a street. If the cops would have stopped me for, say, speeding and had seen the bong, well, would *I* have been arrested when I've never done drugs in my life? So I get home and wake up drug-induced sleeping daughter and ask her about it and she tells me, "Oh! It must have been _____. He hates me and he must have planted it in the car to get me in trouble." Yay, right. By then I asked her questions sort of in morbid fascination to hear her lies. I asked her about this recently and she laughed and said, "Of course it was mine. Drug addicts never tell the truth."
Missy, you are doing good!

 

[missy44]

Thank midwest mom, we'll see. I wish i were as optimistic as you. we just found out that he is using chemicals now so we're scared. I don't know why we weren't so scared when we knew about the pot, he was in trouble then too.

i'm so glad to have found this site, it has been a godsend and i value everyone's opinions and advice.

missy

 

[BusynMember]

Well, sweetie, join the club. Many of us thought it was just pot. My daughter was busted twice...for pot. I never dreamed she was as far gone as she was. But some kids outgrow their interest in drugs...she did. Your son could. And then you have made it clear that you are there for him. I recommend Narc-Anon. THey held my hand when I swore I'd cave in. (((Hugs)))

 

[rejectedmom]

FYI, melatonin tryptophan and valerian root are herbs that will help him sleep. You can buy them seperatly or in a combination pill and they have no street value. Tell him that is all you are willing to do and tell him why. No need to beat around the bush just tell him the truth in a calm manner. Tell him that you do not want to be caught up in his chaous. Tell him to look into AA housing or to go to the shelter and to use public transportation or ride a bike. You can get a decent bike at the thrift shop for about 20 dollars. -RM

 

[susiestar]

Missy, I agree with Midwest Mom that you "got it" early and well. You are healthy enough to see the damage your addicted son was doing to your other children and realize that you first had to protect THEM. You have handled this horrible situation in the way that is the best for your entire family, including the addicted member.

Stands, I truly wish you could take a lesson from Missy. Or ANY other member who has been through this. But in the last year and a half all you have done that WE know of here is to come and ask for advice and help, say you will do it, and then turn around and NOT do it.

You have taken a phrase here or there and used it to justify taking your son in, or giving him $, or taking him to a doctor to get medicine for his "nerves" or whatever.

You KNOW that you are HURTING him. You and your actions are far worse than any drug dealer on the planet. Why? Because you are his MOTHER and are the one who is supposed to have his and your other children's best interests in mind when you make EVERY decision about them. Instead you make decisions based on YOUR feelings and YOUR worries. Or, based on wanting him to stop nagging you to take him to the doctor.

You never give us replies when we ask if you have read books like Co-Dependent No More, or if you have a therapist who specialized in treating drug addicts and their families that you actually go to on a regular basis. Or if you even THINK about your younger son when you allow the addict to come into your home. How much $$ has the addict cost your younger son? How many times has your younger son felt VIOLATED when the addict or his friends stole from him?

Personally, I think you are far worse than a dealer. And I think your behavior in continuing to let the addict back in the home should have cost you custody of your younger son quite a long time ago. Younger son is old enough that no action would be taken now, but your actions toward the addicted son certainly show a lack of regard for the younger son.

 

[standswithcourage]

Yes I havae read Codependent No More. yes I went to a counselor today. I think some of you misunderstand me. My counselor today said I had come a long way. yes it is hard for me - maybe I want to see him trying and I put myself in his shoes but I am not giving him any money and I am not taking him to the doctor and I am not buying prescription drugs for him - some of you act as if I already have. That is what I dont understand. I think instead of getting slammed for any thing I have done I will just stop posting again. It is better than getting beat up. thanks P.S. Actually I bealieve I am getting better. I know when time is right. My husband and I are doing it together. I was just needing the input from anyone that understands my situation I guess from an emotional standpoint since you are mothers too.

 

[Estherfromjerusalem]

I am writing this as a reaction to Susan's reaction to all of your threads.

I don't understand what is happening here on the board.

Many of you just seem to see "Stands with courage" and it triggers off some nasty connection in your brains.

What gives you the right?

Can't you recognise when one of us warrior mothers is reaching out for help? Susan wants support. She needs support. She doesn't need to be slapped around by any of us. She is trying to grope her way towards a direction to coping with her situation. How dare anybody put themselves in her place? Who knows how emotionally worn down she is? Who knows what she has been through, what she is going through? None of us knows what anyone else is truly going through here. None of us is God.
Maybe some of you think you are God, but I've got news for us all: we are just plain human beings, and we have ALL got faults, each and every one of us.

I don't know Susan. I don't know any of you (well, almost. I have met about four of you). But quite honestly, a lot of people's posts rub me up the wrong way, a lot of people here get on my nerves. I wouldn't dream of ever ever ever letting anyone know that they made me feel that way. What is the point of making someone feel even worse than they felt that made them find this place?

I think to behave in such an uncharitable way completely and utterly cancels out the purpose of this board.

Maybe this should be in a separate thread, and maybe we should talk about this matter openly. I love this place, it has saved my life and changed my life and made my life so much more bearable.

But I can't just sit back and let this happen without reacting.

And if this has hurt anyone's feelings, then I apologise, because it is not my purpose.

Love, Esther

 

[Suz]

Esther, this is deja vu. I seem to recall you responding in this same fashion the last time posters disagreed with Susan about her approaches.

The thing is...Susan is still posting about the very same issues she posted about when she first joined. I think the bottom line is that people here are tired of her asking for advice, we/they give it to her, she blows it off and does what she wants, then she comes back and posts again about the very same issues she's posted about before and before and before.

It is difficult to be charitable endlessly when someone asks for help then does little, if anything, about it. And then has the audacity to post that her feelings are hurt because people are rough on her.

It's hard to moderate Susan's threads. Frankly, I don't know when to intercede or if I should. It seems to me that the folks who are frustrated should have the same opportunity to vent that Susan does. Yes, some of it could be phrased in a gentler fashion...but I'm sure you understand the frustration of repeating the same things over and over to no avail.

Suz

 

[catwoman]

Esther, bless you for your kind heart. I also love this site and know that I can come here for help and get honest feedback.

I'm a recovering alcoholic. AA meetings are open to anyone who has a desire to stop drinking. This means that often there are people attending a meeting who are drunk. Our hope is that something they hear will sink in and they will decide that they want to live a sober life. I welcome anyone who comes to a meeting looking for help and support. What I find frustrating is the person who comes drunk to meetings over and over, using them as a place for a "pity party." This person knows they need to change their behavior but are too mired in self pity to do anything about it, no matter how anyone tries to help them. They listen to everything politely, and say "yes, yes, I know I need to do this," and then walk out the door and continue on with life as always, to return next week, still drunk, with a new list of reasons why they can't possibly change things.

I can only speak for myself, but this is the frustration I feel with Stands. I have told her I believe she is addicted to chaos. She can't imagine a life without it, the way an alcoholic can't imagine life without drinking. If she is going to keep coming to us with the same issues over and over again, then I'm going to give her my same honest feelings each time.

 

[Estherfromjerusalem]

Catwoman and Suz, I agree with you both, that it is annoying. But everyone here has the option just not to write. Yes -- all of you who are so hopping mad with Susan -- save your strength and your fingers, and just, if you possibly can, REFRAIN FROM REPLYING. I can't understand that seeing someone's name is like a red rag to a bull. Nobody is forcing anyone to come out and get into the boxing ring.

And yes, I do remember that I have written like this in the past, especially in one case. But in that case, the person who was being "attacked" had herself been very belligerent and snide in her own writing. Here it's not like someone thinks she knows it all, she is really asking for help.

. . . well, I do think it is something we should maybe chew over. One of the replies really upset me -- suggesting to Susan that her younger son should be taken out of her care since she is obviously too irresponsible . . . please, do me a favor! Is that what we are here for? Why should someone in a bad mood be allowed to write stuff like that?

And by the way, I don't agree that she wants to live in chaos. I see coming through the lines that she sincerely wants to do the right thing, and she is getting there very very very slowly. Some people are better than others at doing what has to be done, even though they know what has to be done. Some people have a higher pain threshold, and think people who take painkillers are being "spoiled." I think that is paralleled here, with emotional pain. So who's to tell, and who's to judge?

I appreciate there is a problem about censoring, but it works in all directions. I come here every single day, at least once. I often grind my teeth about stuff, and I don't write. I have sometimes written replies and then deleted them and not sent them. I always read over what I have written before I send it. The last thing I would want would be to add to somebody's pain and sadness, since obviously anyone who is here on the board has more than enough to cope with already.

And if I wrote the same thing two or three years ago -- well, I hope it isn't too boring for everyone. I actually see an awful lot of repetition about an awful lot of topics from an awful lot of people here on the board -- so what!?!

Now I'm really getting angry, so I'm going to stop.

Esther

 

[Suz]

Esther, if you want to continue this discussion, please start a new thread and let's get this one directed back to Susan's questions.

What would you recommend that Susan do? Maybe your suggestions will help her turn a corner.

Suz

 

[Nomad]

Stands...It is good to read that you read the CoDependent book (an excellent choice!) and are seeing the counselor!
Are you going to Al Anon, etc.? Are you going regularly? Perhaps regularl attendance at meetings like this will step up the pace.

You talk about "going crazy" and the behavior of your son "killing" you.
You wanted to know if your "thinking" was correct.
You question yourself a lot.
It'sconfusing to me that you are going to a therapist and possibly meetings and don't have more confidence.

Have you told your therapist that you don't feel confident in the way things are progressing?
Have you told your therapist that you are very stressed..sometimes feel like you might "go crazy?"
Do you have at least one person at one of your meetings who you can confide in? (If you are going??)
Do people who can help you really know the extent that you are worried and unsure with your son at home?

A thought: print out this thread and take it to your therapist or someone at an Al Anon meeting and get input.

Part of detaching and not living in a co dependent manner is reaching out to those who are able to help (therapist, etc.) and using this information and new found strength to feel confident and move forward in a productive, confident and independent way.

Again...I think most folks here would really enjoy hearing strengthening type news...information about avoiding co depedent behaviors. News from a different vantage point. It's okay to feel weak at times, but not all the time. It's normal to have moments of insecurity. But, it's healthy to not dwell on them. We have to make use of the resources available to us. Progress is expected...anticipated. Such tips about avoiding co dependency and using inner strength would be gathered from meetings at Al Anon, etc. and I think the group would enjoy hearing about this type of thing.

My suggestions:
1. Be totally honest with your therapist about the extent of your inner pain/turmoil/confusion.
2. Attend Al Anon meetings regularly. Make sure you have a regular sponsor/contact. Be up front with them about what is going on. Ask for advice.
3. Re-read Co Dependent No More. Perhaps read a second book on the subject...go to library...check at amazon.com.
4. Try to concentrate on what you have learned in therapy and at your meetings. This should be your primary focus.
5. Future posts...look at #4. Let this be what is on your mind. Let us know about how your avoiding co dependent behavior and any progress that you have made. Avoid talk of insecurity. Focus on positives as best as you are able. Any negative comment or insecure moment...should be followed by examples of positive things too. It should not be so one sided.
6. Know in your heart that although it doesn't feel okay right now, the right people are all around you ... willing and able to help. This is a wonderful thing. Open your heart and mind. Before too long, you will feel better.

 

[Star*]

Susan,


Raising a kid like ours is never easy - stepping aside is one of the hardest things we do as parents. Being the friend of someone we feel makes mistakes despite our advices wears on our hearts. While the support may be more distant - it's still there. Sometimes it's as hard to watch our friends self destruct as it is to watch our own children do the same.

Much understanding -
Star

 

[Hound dog]

Stands

I am much releaved to hear you're not giving him money, or taking him to the doctor, or paying for scripts for him. That is a big step for you, and I hope you can keep it up.

I hope my posts aren't coming across harsh. I tend to be blunt on this subject because I'm going thru it with my best friend who I love like a younger sister. So often the things I'm posting about are things I have to tell myself almost constantly.

I watch my friends family continue to fall for her excuses and "help" her to some extent or other........and I watch my friend sink further and further into her addiction the more "help" they give her. I've watched it bankrupt her mother....who is only now beginning to get the helping is actually hurting idea. Her family gets conned into giving her script medications to cope when she can't get the heroine she craves. And believe me, she'll tell them anything to get it. She's used up all the docs in the county because they've finally figured out she's just coming to them in hopes of getting stoned legally. I've even watched her play her psychiatrist like a puppet to abuse her psychiatric medications to get stoned like the heroine. Until I put a call into psychiatrist and gave hime the heads up on the situation.

I've had to detach from friend. I know I can't help her the way she wants to be helped. She calls me fairly often. If she's using and complaining about her life, I remind her how she can change it for the better. If she's once again attempting rehab I cheer her on and applaude her efforts.

I've had to tell her no when her kitchen was bare and her kids had nothing to eat. Both to borrowing money and bringing her food. And that about killed me. Instead, I called her mother and had her pick up the grandkids and feed them. Daughter was left at home to stay hungry.

It wasn't to be brutal. But somehow friend has to see she's not just distroying her life with her addiction, but the lives of her sons who are living the h*ll with her. She is still at the point of lying to herself that because she's a good mother in all other repects......that she's not hurting her boys. The only way to bring that fact home to her is for her to have to see the cold hard truth of it.

I still have not been able to make the call to cps. I'm really stuggling with that decision. Her family won't do it. I love those boys with all my heart. Maybe by not calling I'm making a huge mistake. But I'm having a hard time convincing myself that them being in foster care in this county would be better than being with their addict mother who loves them. But I also know.....she may force my hand with cps too.

It's h*ll watching someone you love distroy themselves and knowing you can't do anything to stop it. Our instincts make us want to swoop in and fix it. We want to shake 'em until their brain rattles and make them see what they're doing to themselves. But they can't see because their addiction has them blinded to the truth. Their world centers around their addiction. Nothing else. Only they can make it stop.

It stinks that I can't be a friend/sister to my best friend anymore. I have to watch everything I say/do. I have to think any action I want to take all the way thru to make certain that what I want to do is not going to wind up being twisted in such a way as to help feed her addiction. It's hard. It's exhausting. So I detach, and let her live this journey, and support her when she tries to put an end to it.

It's all I can do. And it svcks.

 

[ScentofCedar]

Esther, thank goodness you spoke up.

This site is supposed to be a soft place to land. It isn't about having all our ducks in a row, and it isn't about already knowing just how to do what needs to be done for our kids, or we wouldn't be here in the first place.

I remember what it was like for me.

It takes time and enormous emotional commitment to acknowledge what our children are into, and to look that straight in the eyes without blinking.

And, just like that old saying says, when we know better, we do better.

Until each of us reaches that place where she can see clearly and, because she is now able to see clearly, can respond appropriately, our task is to support one another.

Barbara

 

[Suz]

Barbara, as I said earlier, if you would like to start a new thread on this issue that's fine.

In the meantime, I will pose the same question to you that I did to Esther- rather than jumping on those of us who are here for each other every single day (yes, I am entitled to get angry, too), what advice do you have for Stands? I noticed that you didn't offer any above.


Suz