New here, would appreciate commiseration :)

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by Jinxy, Nov 28, 2008.

  1. Jinxy

    Jinxy New Member

    Morning all, I have found this site quite by accident after googling some issues I am having with my daughter, the creature trying to be the bane of my existence, my baby who was the quiet one, and the bringer of all things argumentative. Warning, this will be along post-read at your own peril.

    Little background-am almost 38 medical professional, married to an almost 38 year old electrician. Second marriage, have two children from previous marriage. We've been together since 1998 but only married since '02. My kids are like night and day. My son was a loud, sickly colicky baby who once he turn 12 months old shut up and has been a quiet introvert ever since. My daughter on the other hand was a mellow, easy going baby who at 12 months opened her mouth to scream and it hasn't shut since.

    The boy cub is now 18, moved in with his biological father this past summer to attend college and came out to me as being gay when he was 17. (of course that is a whole other post...) We have a fairly good relationship. He is cerebral and witty. I didn't like him in Middle school but my boy has been returned from the pod people since then. He still is a selfish young person but that is what young people are; but I love him and he knows it.

    My difficult child as you lovingly call youngest...the girl...13 going on 40. God help me. She is on her last year of middle school and I feel like if we can live through this maybe the pod people will return my baby girl back to me. She is strong willed and confident-outwardly. But lacks self esteem and requires a lot of repeated assurances on her worth. She is extremely smart and has wanted to be a lawyer for as long as I can remember. (That scares me because she is gonna be a damn good one) I once thought that she was schizophrenic while she was in the first grade due to her telling me she heard voices, a few suspensions for fighting and an out of the blue aggression that destroyed a neighbors flowerbed. After therapy, we discovered her emotional maturity was far behind her intellectual maturity. She was frustrated without means to express her feelings as she wanted is how it was explained to me. Lying was an issue, but calmed down. Then puberty hit.

    Fast forward to middle school. I'm gonna lay it all out here. She lies constantly, but not just to us-and truthfully thats mainly just piddly stuff. Did you eat the cookies? No. Did you take my hair spray? No. But alas, my husband is bald, there are wrappers in her room, and her brother doesn't live here anymore. Unless the chihuahuas have evolved opposable thumbs...hello duh...anyways, she is constantly telling her friends all kinds of lies and stirring up drama for whatever reasons. She tells her friends that my husband hit me and left us for an ex wife. (I saw this on an instant messenger log) She has lied to me about being bulimic-which I found out after I took her into therapy again. it's almost as if she feels like she has to jazz up her life to make it seem more interesting to others. She lies about places she has been, languages she can speak; it's just bizarre to me. Her attitude and mouth are her downfall. If I could just get her brain to react as quickly as that mouth of hers...maybe even override it would be bliss.

    I have her myspace password-that was a condition for her getting her internet back after she hacked onto her ex-best friends profile page and deleted stuff, made her an overweight drug addict and various other dumb things. This was after she had lost the internet for a few months. I hate myspace but now-a-days it is as part of teens lives as our bikes and the convenient stores were to ours.

    She is totally fretful about her weight and size. She was a chunky little girl but puberty has fixed that. She is very pretty, and is either very conceited and wants to be told that all the time by everyone or thinks the opposite and can't see the forest for the trees. She has a boyfriend. He is 14. They have been together since 2-7-08 (trust me I know the date, ugh).

    Now get this-even with all this I have a wonderful relationship with her. We talk, she tells me about the mess that goes on with her friends, for the most part. She does leave out things, of course. She can tell me pretty much everything. Like the time she and the boyfriend 'did it but it didn't last but for a few minutes'...that was late this summer. That was a major omg moment for me. Sex means nothing to kids anymore. Long story short my husband went over to the boys house and had a long conversation with his parents. Thankfully, the boy wasnt home but at an aunts house. There will not be any opportunity for this to occur again, at least not on our watch-not for a very long time at least. My husband has asked her not to cause him to go to jail over her because he would. We took her to get the morning after pill and incidentally the boy paid for half of it-his idea. Up until recently, the only time they got to see each other was at school. We have allowed supervised visitation at a school dance recently. So far, so good.

    If there was ever an argument for the nature versus nurture thing, I have it. She is identical to my husband in respect to needing to have the last word, being right, and in temperament. She has been suspended numerous times. Insubordination for the most part. She got suspended once because the gym teachers were chatting making the class late for lunch. My daughter the police of the world according to her yelled just loud enough to become Moses of the middle school by saying -let my mother xxxxxxx people go to lunch. Nice. Thats just one example.

    For the most part I know a lot of this is the age of the teen in todays society. But for others I would love to place some blame on some affliction du jour. She can be mean as a snake, and as sweet as pie. We stopped therapy because I think it became more therapy for me than her, and I think she used it as a means to somehow spotlight her plight in her social realm-Mom makes me go to therapy. Come on girl, xxx?

    Sorry this is as long as it is and even then I have left lots out but still it was rather cathartic to place some of it down. So thanks if you made it to the end. I hope me and my family will do the same ;)
  2. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    Wow- Hello and welcome!! I found this a very interesting post!! You seem like a very level-headed and likable person and I wish I could figure out how much of what you're going through is a result of raising a hard-headed (which has both advatages and disadvantages) teen girl and how much of her behavior is indicative of a big problem, that is not typical.

    It's a little slow right now- I guess due to yesterday being T-day and today being shopping day, but hang in there and I'm sure others will come along to welcome you and give better advice than I can on this one. I'm a Mom to a 13 yo boy, so in some respects, I understand the frustration of trying to figure out what is just teen stuff and what isn't, but I really am not sure in your case.

    Again, welcome and hang in there!!
  3. Jena

    Jena New Member

    It was an interesting post, and not soo long LOL.

    So, welcome klmno is right today is a little slow yet as the day progresses more members will come in and give you some helpful advice. This site is a tremendous source of support and ideas when parentings our "difficult child's".

    So, the teenage years I have learned can be quite trying indeed, from my own experience alot of lying does infact go on. They are battling between adhering to our rules and also finding themselves and their own sudden need for independence and a seperate existance from "us", the dreaded parents lol.

    With that being said, my daughter who is now going to be 16 shortly has behaved in some similar ways that you have listed. There is alot of drama with girls I find, friendships, boyfriends, etc. When my daughter was 13 i too was in total shock at the sudden change of behaviors, attitude, etc. I'm learning I have to constantly change my approach towards my daughter as she grows.

    So, she hasn't had any type of evaluations as of yet, right? I saw that you wrote that she talks to you and there seems to be open communication. That is great by the way, even if details are left out. I think you have to expect that, total honesty from a teeanger is just not going to happen. LOL at least not in my little world :)

    So, you seem to do as I do take possessions away when she does something wrong, right?? Than she has to earn them back? I also do not like myspace, yet I as you have my daughter's log in so i check the account periodically to make sure it's "clean" and I also have it set to private.

    Ok i'll wait for you to write back. Welcome again!
  4. Jena

    Jena New Member

    I reread your post, what stood out to me as I read it again was her claiming to know different languages and needing to as you said "jazz" it up a bit in regards to who she is. That's kinda interesting. My daughter def is a drama queen, i also know the date her and her boyfriend started dating lol, and she will overdramatize absolutely anything that comes her way as well. It could be "anything".
  5. Jinxy

    Jinxy New Member

    Thanks for the welcome, it is appreciated very much. I guess I should clarify some things. First and prolly most important, she doesn't hear voices at this time, or for that matter probably in the past either. It was an easy excuse or reasoning/explanation to describe for a 6 year old. But I gotta tell ya, at the time I felt as though I had brought a 'sybil' into the world.

    Youth seem to be aging-and I dont mean maturing-at a much faster rate than in the past. Now, I am sure all parents felt like this when comparing generations and it could be I am more acutley aware of this now that I am on the opposite end of that generation gap. But we never had the internet, and everything that comes along with growing up today. We had to learn social skills because socializing required face to face interaction. No true today. I just wish I could instill the importance of that, and learning the subtle nuianses of that relationship. Lying is much more prevalent today, yes? And I can almost see why-because they can get away with it so easily.

    Thanks again for my welcome, I do hope more chime in :)
    Misery loves company dontcha know? ;P
  6. Ropefree

    Ropefree Banned

    Jinxy: Welcome aboard!

    Let me just start with the intellegence of this child. Her strengths, like with all of us,are unweildly as they are the bright spots. Especially when it is not ever the same for two people. We are each unique.
    Also the critical issues that surround the natural maturity that is that doorway to
    sexuality: reproductive health.
    When I was a teen the roevwade desition was forged, the feminist movement was loud and in the news and the sexual lives of a woman were just beginning to belong to a female as a right to her own life. And I volunteered for planned parenthood where I conducted health histories for the incoming clients.
    As an adult now, with my own teen, who I feel comfortable knows about the reproductive healthcare available I am stymied by the intrusion of the pimps and prostitutes that are making bank and solicit on tv, in our homes on this technowonder and shade the media with tantilizing ideas that have nothing to do with care of ones heart and soul. Being studgy is just a wonder of age, I guess.
    The wisdom of consent age and the incremental responciblity that youth aquire at 16,18,21 show that we do know as society and have known for a very long time what is now evidenced in science more readily through imagining and testing:
    the brain is still developing and the ability to reason, to consider consequenses and to plan are not easily achieved and they are not givens and these do not just errupt fully formed because one can achieve reproduction success or are a certain age.
    in general the benfits of pursuing therapy and seeking the testing with psyciatrists and phscologists are to have the information from someone who has taken and intrest and has some advise: good or bad.
    These are new fields and they do not have all the answers and I think it behooves us to be engaged with these practises so that they do evolve and improve for the future.
    Having someone working with your family that can be called apon in times of great stress for an objective view helps.
    Whereas the daughters reflection to her peirs may annoy you on the other hand she is acknnowleging to them her status as dependant "I have to go my parents make me" which is also a tool that is in her arsenal for other issues. "my parents would kill me" *in the terrorist venecular of the bygone era* is also a defense for a child and teen that their peers understand.
    Because there are so many teens and even younger who are not in homes and families that give a wit/ even have wits to give...for youth who do it is something
    that is envied on either side of the fence. She may envy the lack of accountablility in some families, as some of her freinds may envy the structure and care in her own.
    I think that as troubling as the challenges our children bring to us as parents really are and how unprepared we may feel to streach to the degree we do and how begrudgingly we muster our inner Commander to demand at the utter displeasure of our youth compliance to the rules and needs in the relationships in the family (and that includes chores, calling home, asking to go oout and saying whom one is going to be with and you can call on the parents)
    Oh why? Well, I need to know when to report you are missing should that happen.
    What if your car goes off the road? If I knew you were due back and you were at a specific location we can look along that road first. Maybe see where your car went over. Pull you out while you are still with us. And if you should get killed the first time I have spoken to your freinds parents will not be in their saddest hour of greif"
    And this episode with the boyfreind...good for you!
    The girlfreind in this child of mines llife was the one who was intiating the oppertunities to go off radar and when I did contact the parents they were just getting controls in order. The two are still seeing one another and under supervisiiion.
    My ephany was that there is similarity between this developemental stage and the others that preceeded. As parents we scramble at each one. Starting with rolling over...and after that putting things in their mouths...and then they loose that clingy thing and venture out of view the first time. They discover they can walk to a neighbors on their own.
    These challenges arise in moments of complacensy in my house. When it seems like I have it all in order.
    NOT. next muttle to figure out.
    Glade you found this spot. Hope it helps you,too.
    I think one thing is the problems are so varied and so engaging that it shifts our attention, gives new ideas, and lets us bllur our focus so our creative intelegence can devise without our worrisome preoccupation getting in our way.
    Bon voyage!
  7. WOW its sounds like you have your hands full.. while i cannot relate to having a teenage daughter I can relate to being one... At 15 i was diagnosed with adhd and borderline personality disorder i went through long periods of phsycosis and at best I was a drama quees like no other LOL I made up stories and lies lalalalal you name it i did ..but what i wanted to share was my mother never gave up on me she pushed me and we fought and she pushed me some more ( mentally speaking) and I came out of it with a full recovery... there were times when im sure she wanted to beat me but no matter what anyone else said she made sure i knew she loved me and cared for me and that she would be there for me .. I think what the hardest part of going through that was for me lack of acceptance by my peers and needing to embellish things so they would like me and often times it backfired... so after a few shaky years I grew up just in time to have my kids but what made me come out the other end was my moms support dont get me wrong she wasnt a door mat for me in anyway nor was she allowing me to manipulate her .... but from the sounds of it you are doing a good job and I wanted to let you know there can and is a light at the end of the tunnel even if it doesnt seem like that right now...I wish you and your family all the best
  8. Jena

    Jena New Member

    Jinx - I agree wholeheartedly that it is very different now than it was for us years ago. We were made to socialize, face to face contact. Whereas now they can text, or IM eachother, post stories on their myspace instead of actually speaking to eachother. Which takes away from the socialization aspect of it all.

    The lying seems to be one of the things that bothers you most from reading your post. How many times was she suspended, where they in house suspensions or out of school?

    For me, I look at my two children. My difficult child has had issues from birth, and recently we have diagnosis now finally. Whereas my easy child who will be 16 has never had anything more than typical "kid" stuff. When she turned 13 though the lying began, the endless drama began, etc.

    What would you like to see her doing differently now? school, home, socially?
  9. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    Hi and Welcome jinxy! I like your name!

    This will be a short welcome, usually I post more but I have a hand issue tonight. So, what tests have teh therapists or the school done to evaluate your daughter? There very well may be some reason behind her lies, especially the extravagant ones and the immaturity. She may in fact be on the autistic spectrum. There is a whole range of disorders that are considered on the autistic spectrum, and they are referred to as Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD), or autistic spectrum disorders.

    ASDs show up in girls VERY VERY differently than in boys. You may want to look into Aspergers Syndrome or High Functioning Autism. Your daughter sounds like she would be on the VERY HIGH end of hte functioning. (And having an Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) does NOT mean that your daughter will not go to college, or have the life she wants. It means she may need some help, esp with social cues.)

    What was her early development like?

    I have to go, but am VEERY glad you are here. You seem to have a wonderful attitude about all of this, and it is clear you love and accept your children for who they are. Big Kudos to you (and husband) for not freaking over the sex issue. It is a true testament to your love and parenting skills that she feels comfortable talking to you about this.

    I will respond more tomorrow.


  10. Jinxy

    Jinxy New Member

    Thanks so much everyone!

    So much to reply to, what a nice community....

    She has been suspended in school and out, although more in than out. And I will say this, they are very strict in her middle school. They have a program they call time out-which is prolly more for the teacher's sanity than anything. They can send the student to this anytime they feel like they need to discipline and basically get the child out of their face for the class period. Talking back, disruption, lack of homework, and cutting class are all routine offenses sent to time out. Once you get 3 time outs you can have one of a few consequences-ISS, OSS, or Saturday school. Yes, going to school on Saturday-just like on the breakfast club, which I can say my daughter has been to a few sessions....3 I think. And judging by all the cars I see when I have to go pick her up, she isnt the only one. <sigh> Ever know someone that no matter what they did, they always got caught at it, even with a full proof plan? Thats her.

    My pregnancy with her was a nice one actually. No big weight gain or complications. Although I may have needed to join a research study on the long term effects of the over use of TUMS...the heartburn was insane. Delivery began normal enough, as a potential VBAC (vaginal birth after cesarean) but after almost two hours of pushing she decided that the hole her brother made was more to her liking and ruptured my c-section scar. I dont remember much other than being rushed in the OR and an hour or so later the staff telling me I had a baby girl and everything was fine. Whoopteedo, I thought. I'm beat. She had no O2 deprivation and her apgar scores were 9/10. Breastfed her for almost 8 months, and we both loved it.

    Early development was on track, if not maybe a little early. Except for her teeth she finally got her first tooth at just shy of 12 months. When she began talking she was fairly articulate, but then again her brother was as well so it wasn't much of a surprise. Both of my kids are tested as gifted but I highly suspect her of being smarter than him. He is content to be that smart kid, but she wants to be better. It's apparent in her school work and the ease at which she completes it. So I am not really concerned with her intellectually, or academically. (And its not bragging when I say they got their smarts from me, I wrote my ex-husbands senior paper so he would graduate...what an idiot thing to do on my part now that I look back LOL)

    I guess at this point I should include that her biological father was mean, cruel to be exact. Anger issues that even the navy ordered him to go to classes to help him. It finally got to a point that I was grateful when he would go out to sea. Then he got shore duty and cross trained to be an MP. That was when I finally knew I couldn't live like that forever. I then saw my children exhibiting our dysfunctional behaviors. My son would hit or be mean to her and she would take it. As frightening as it was, I got us out of there. Incidentally, he is now on his 3rd marriage but I never talked bad about him to them, or let them see my hurt or anger towards him. He comes and goes as far as his contact with them (the Navy has a way with making sure of that, thank you Uncle Sam) I have a cordial relationship with him, but the things I could reveal to them about their father wouldn't bring any happiness to anyone, so its just left unsaid.

    My daughter can almost recite verbatim my mantra to her-I'm not here to be your friend, I'll have many years to be your friend when you are grown. I'm here to be your mom and if that means you hate me then so be it. Hate me all you want I dont mind. It would be a lot easier on me to give up but I love you very much and if I didnt love you as much as I do I wouldn't care about what you do or what happens to you.

    Let me assure you I am not the worlds most patient of parents as earlier this summer we had what I call a "come to Jesus meeting" We started arguing. She threw a glass of water at her door. She was running her mouth as per the norm, and I lost it. I smacked her mouth. Then I guess it got good to me and she got an old fashioned butt busting. Yep my then 12 year old got spanked. A lot. But wait, when it was over apparently it wasn't enough for me so I felt the need to lecture. and lecture. She got really angry when I then told her to get me some paper towels to clean up the water she spilled. Thats when she lost it. Instead of bringing me paper towels she brought the biggest kitchen knife in the block. I was like, ok, I know I can take her but someone is gonna get cut. She threatened me with it but gave me the knife, without either of us getting physical. I called her bluff I think and thankfully she isn't that crazy. She cried and cried afterwards and said she was so sorry for what she had done. Hell, we both cried. And talked. I told my husband about it, a few days later. I needed everything to be calm and cool without adding his shock and anger into the mix. It turned out to be a good thing because she remembered who the boss was in all of that. The therapist said she prolly needed that, a release of power so to speak. Nothing on that level has happened since...knock on wood.

    I know she isn't gonna be perfect, and I would be worried if she was. She isn't ADD/ADHD, and can focus on anything she puts her mind to. If I thought some medication would be something to 'fix her' I'd certainly give it a shot, but everyone professional and otherwise tells me its all normal. And yes her lying is what bothers me the most. It almost seems pathological, but I just dont know.

    MamaBear thanks for giving me hope.

    I asked her tonight why does she embellish so much, and was it to appear more interesting to her peers and she said yes. Ugh, I think she would be a lot more interesting without soap opera drama...I would like to see her being more social with people instead the computer and the phone, more spending the night at friends maybe. Anything with more interests outside of the boyfriend and myspace.
  11. KTMom91

    KTMom91 Well-Known Member

    Welcome, Jinxy!
  12. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Welcome, Jinxy!
    You certainly have your hands full. She does sound very bright. I would make sure she is highly challenged in school, and takes extracurricular courses, as well.
    I was actually chuckling about your huge fight that started with-the water glass, until I came to the part about the knife.
    Whew. Glad you handled it well.
    I'd go back into therapy. Even if she won't go, the psychiatric can give you ideas for how to handle certain situations, and how to prevent things from escalating. I personally like having a professional to talk to. I take lots of notes.
    Nice to meet you.
  13. thank you for your welcome in my post and thank you for your kind words aswell... I know she seems so out of reach and not at all easy to understand but I think that having somesort of mental illness makes you feel different deficient in some way and her stories are away she can make herself out to be special in her own eyes where for a few minutes other people think she is in her mind.... having things like the interenet are dangerous to all of our children expecially becuase she can intereact with people without having any actaul contact so she can escape into a fantasty world where she is in fact normal or like everyone else and even more important to her superiorr special ... even though she is special anyways without all of that the most important thing is she doesnt feel like it right now and she probably feels different than anyone else and in her heart she cannot really relate and truly just wants to be able to relate to feel apart of the world rather than disconnected from it i think what happens alot is that these conditions can make you feel disconnected and you will deperatley try anything to feel real and accepted...I hope that helps alittle im sorry if ive repeated my self :D