New psychiatrist, 2nd guessing

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by TerryJ2, Aug 26, 2008.

  1. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    I drove to difficult child's new psychiatric appointment. with-a diff dr. today. It was just info gathering between me and the dr, and ins. stuff.

    He is a psychologist (if you recall, my trek into to find an alternate neuropsychologist led me straight back to the same dr who said that difficult child was "just" ADHD and the poor eye contact was ADHD and only did a short interview and no testing).
    This new dr specializes in spectrum disorders (bipolar and Asperger's). I think it's cool that he does both because one of difficult children' distinctive characteristics is rages, and I can't tell which is which.

    Just from my description, the dr. thinks it may be Asperger's and he gave me some handouts (in fact, he put an asterisk by the book he most recommended and it's my favorite--Miles and Southwick). I think he was going mostly on how difficult child didn't "get it" when he broke into the S's and took the mom's panties. First off, the fact that difficult child took the entire drawer and 2nd, that he didn't get why his friend, S, wouldn't be his friend any more, that he didn't understand how it would affect her. I couldn't explain to difficult child all the nuances, so I just told him that one or two pr of her panties were in the bunch that he grabbed. He understood that.
    The dr said he sees a fair amt of Aspies and of those who collects ladies' panties (and get caught), about one a yr.

    Of course, the dr asked about difficult child's bmom and bdad. He dismissed the bdad's use of pot (everyone does ... they're looking for birth trauma, mother's drug use, etc.) but he thought it was significant that the dad's history was to rise to the top every few yrs and crash. Now I can't recall what his comment was, darn.

    We're doing psychiatric and educational testing as soon as the ins. is cleared.

    I told him that difficult child is high functioning so he's probably going to fall through the cracks, plus, he makes good eye contact. Again, I hate to have anyone jump to conclusions.

    Gosh, this kid is time consuming!!!!

    Oh, the dr. mentioned that there is a TV show about 4 aspie guys who either work across the hallway or live across the hallway from a cute blonde. Any idea what the name of it is?

    I got lost on the way there and it's a 45-min drive if you know where you're going, plus, he was very fast paced, and now I have a roaring headache and just want to sleep. I've got dinner in the oven, and have to p/u difficult child at his "regular" psychiatric appointment in an hr. He's going to be grumpy---they're going to focus in on the police incident.

    Wish us luck!
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2008
  2. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    Sounds like a productive appointment. I hope this helps you figure out what is going on so you can help difficult child. Interesting about hte panties.
  3. OpenWindow

    OpenWindow Active Member


    Sounds like you might like this doctor. I'm glad he's considering Asperger's. My difficult child is good with eye contact (probably because we worked on it with him at a very young age) and high-functioning too and I've found it hard find for anyone to put it down in writing - they just say it's a possibility. I just treat him like he's on the spectrum anyway because it works better than anything else I've done, and so does his school.

    I hope this new psychiatrist leads your son to more appropriate help for his issues, sounds like you may be on the right track.

  4. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Some Aspies make good eye contact, some don't. Some make good eye contact with people they know, but can't look strangers in the eyes (common). There is no such thing as an Aspie trait that all Aspies have other than trouble with social cues and a certain "cluelessness" about life.
    in my opinion you really need to take a hard look at spectrum disorder. He has a lot of the traits. I doubt he'd go inside somebody's house when they weren't home if he didn't have it--that's just too "out there." At any rate, hope you get the help you're looking for (and really need).
    Aspergers should NOT fall through the cracks. My son was higher functnioning than yours (not trying to compare "My kid is better than yours" lol) but he NEVER would have gone into somebody's house or taken anything--he knew better--his "awareness" level was high for somebody with Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD). And my son STILL got tons of interventions at school, and he has done 80% better because of those interventions. You have to fight and not allow the school to let him fall through the cracks. Hate to tell you this, but it's all up to you. The school will definitely do it their easy way if you let them get away with it.
    Your son DESPERATLY needs life skills and social skills interventions and maybe academic supports too. You do NOT want him to stay as socially clueless as he is and do things like again. Good luck :)
  5. mstang67chic

    mstang67chic Going Green

    No help with the Aspie aspect of your post but I think the show is called The Big Bang Theory or something along that line. I don't know the actor's name but the guy that played Darlene's boyfriend on Roseanne (David?) is in it. I don't know that they are actually portrayed as Aspies so much as they are just insanely intelligent, kinda geeky and at least one is horribly socially unaware. (Maybe he's the one who acts aspie?)
  6. totoro

    totoro Mom? What's a GFG?

    Terry~ well it sounds like he is at least listening? You know for us with N, she has so many spectrumish behaviours, but it always gets dismissed because of good eye contact and the high functioning. She is not high functioning in some settings... which they never see. She does not rage, she is just quirky, anxious, tons of sensory issues and talks like a little adult. We have worked with her since she was very little, like she was on the spectrum. We use therapies for both K and N that are for kids on the spectrum. I believe the therapies for Autistic kids are the most thought out and work the best for any special needs kid.
    N does toe walking, hand flapping, lies on the ground and hums, but these things have actually calmed down a TON since we started working with her. She still "climb us" when she is scared or anxious.
    But because the people assessing do not see all of the work we have done, nor do they see her in a highly stressed environment, they most times do not see it. Her Occupational Therapist (OT) was one who really understood her, but even she said, Oh no way to Autism, because she makes good eye contact.
    I just firmly believe some of the diagnosis'ing is a load of ****, not all of the Mental Illness Spectrum symptoms are alike, for a lot of people, and not all of the Autism Spectrum symptoms are alike... that is why they are on a "Spectrum" but not enough docs think like this. Cut and Dry...
    I don't care what N's diagnosis is, as long as she is not raging or suicidal. We will continue to work with her like she has sensory processing disorder (SPD) and is on the Spectrum.
    I hope his apt went well today... get some rest.
  7. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Rainman, if that's the movie, was an extreme. Few with autism are savants, which is what he was. Most seem like awkward, geeky, very socially inept kids. With Aspergers they often talk like Professors and obsess on certain topics, not good at give-and-take conversation. Some are bonafide loners and some desperately want friends, but have NO idea how to make friends and get very depressed.
    Those things are really more telling than eye contact, which can be sparadic with these kids (and adults). The problems come in when the child is so unaware that they break the law. Therefore, I feel interventions are mandatory for our "we don't get it" kids. They can also become victims of others very easily because they may think "he talked nice to me, therefore he is nice, there he is my friend." Some kids who claimed to be my son's friends, were taking his money that he freely gave to him because he said "You have to be nice to your friends." Um, they weren't his friends. I don't know if my son will ever be savvy, but we're trying...
  8. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    Well, if it means anything to you, Wiz has AMAZING eye contact. It has always been something he was good at. Including staring you in the eye while he flat out lied. (ROLL EYES HERE)

    So don't ever let them tell you that eye contact is the litmus test for Aspergers or autism, cause my Wiz sure as sugar is an Aspie.

    Also sending a PM.
  9. gcvmom

    gcvmom Here we go again!

    I'm chiming in here because I'm finding much of what you all are saying very interesting. When difficult child 2 had his neuropsychologist evaluation in April, they concluded he was NOT a kid with Asperger's. Yet the school strongly suggested it and in listening to what several of you have said about the social skills being so lacking in certain ways, the obsessing about certain topics and sounding like little professors... and what MWM said about their interpretation of "nice" and "friends" -- that's all difficult child 2!

    But I can have a two-way conversation with him. And he has empathy for others. And he makes eye contact (when he's stable). One thing I pointed out to the school psychiatric who was really pushing the Asperger's question was that many of the behaviors she was describing could also apply to a kid with ADHD (which I STILL believe to be at the opposite end of the Autism spectrum -- but it's STILL on the spectrum. Does that make sense?

    difficult child 2's IEP is primarily for social skills -- it all fell out from him innocently bringing a Swiss Army knife to school (he wanted to use the magnifier to look at rocks), but then not-so-innocently verbally threatening another student who'd been bullying him later in the day.... then not understanding why everyone was SO upset! "Why would they think I would actually DO that? I would NEVER DO that! NOBODY would! That's just stupid!"

    Hmmm, let's see... knife in your pocket, you show it to some kids. You later tell someone you could cut their throat with it after they don't stop bugging you. You wonder why people are upset?

    See what I mean?

    Must do more reading.
  10. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Thank you all.
    I do think my difficult child is on the spectrum. I also think that ADHD is part of the spectrum ... too much of a coincidence that nearly every Aspie is ADHD. Something neurological there.
    Yes, the social cluelessness is a biggie.
    And you're right, he does make good eye contact within the family but not with-strangers. I will ask the teacher when we have our first mtng, how he does with-her.

    I filled out an Aspie/Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) form last night and was wondering why I bothered, since most everything was 0. Then I got to the 3rd page, and bingo! Everything was a 10. I mean, difficult child to a T. It was the most comprehensive "quiz" I've taken so far--the others were only one page--and it divides behaviors into categories. For ex., sensory (touch) is one, auditory is another, sight is another, social is yet another. Most just lump them together. I like this a lot better.
    I'm doing it on a sep. piece of paper so husband can do it, too, and we'll compare our answers. I'm pretty amazed that he is cooperating, but this thing with-the police has everyone concerned.

    Yes, The Big Bang Theory is the show the dr was referring to! I'll have to watch it.

    MM, I've seen Rainman. Actually, that movie did a lot for autism, except that for people like me, we keep expecting that savant part to come shining through. I'm still waiting to take my difficult child to Las Vegas. :(
  11. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I really probably shouldnt even be posting...but...something that was posted above just stuck me as odd. Now Terry...I dont want to say that your difficult child is aspergers or not...if he is just quirky, inquisitive or who knows what. But to say that no one or no kid would go into someones house when they werent home and take things means they are aspie just cant be a broad statement. People break into other peoples houses all the time. Its called breaking and entering and the people that do it are called criminals. Cory started doing this in middle school I think...somewhere around that age. Maybe age 13. He would steal the stupidest things. Food, magazines, cable tv shows. He isnt aspie. We really arent convinced he is bipolar and that he was not just plain old CD.

    Im NOT saying that is what your son is. Im just saying no one can make a broad statement that only kids on the autistic spectrum would break into a house because they are clueless about boundaries. Some just dont care about boundaries.
  12. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Janet, I see where you're coming from.
    Still, I believe my son truly didn't "get it." We talked after the police left, and the 2 things that struck me were that he grabbed SO MANY undies--the whole drawerful, which is hoarding--and that when I told him S. was no longer his friend and he'd ruined 11 yrs of friendship, he couldn't understand why. He didn't get her connectedness to the rest of the family, and how someone coming into a house and taking one person's things would affect another person. So when I made it literal, with-a concrete connection, saying that one or 2 pr of her panties were in the bunch, then he understood. But it had to be a concrete connection.

    It's still possible that my son is both bipolar and aspie, or something else altogether. Or none of the above. But it makes sense to me that he's somewhere on the spectrum.

    The one thing that he and Cory could have in common is impulsivity. They just act with-o thinking. It would be interesting to get into their heads and see if there is any connection to some sort of excitement about getting caught, or a total lack of boundaries, or a drive to get whatever it is that is so strong they abandon all caution just to get it.
    Of course, if we could figure all that out, we'd have perfect diagnosis's ... :)
  13. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I know what you really does make no sense whatsoever. We were completely flummoxed by why a seemingly sane kid would break into our neighbor and friends homes to steal candy and sandwiches...and watch pay per view! Can you imagine our mortification when this came to light? Or the morning when Tonys cousin called to say that not only had they caught Cory watching their satellite they were now missing one of a pair of the wifes earings...and tony walked in to find Cory wearing it but denying it to the ends of the earth! I think he was 12 and just home from wilderness camp. None of it made sense. He would skip school and walk home and do this stuff while we were working.

    This is what caused me to take him to the psychiatric hospital the first time and get him admitted. He had no clue why he did it, no remorse, wouldnt stop...and we had neighbors who were saying that if they caught him in their house they would shoot first and ask questions later. Even that made no impression on him. Scared me though! Thats when we got the bipolar diagnosis but Im still not sure. He was extremely hypersexual back then though. Now that I think about it he was 13. Some of the oldies will remember those bad old days...shudder. God the stories I could tell from back then. Your pantie raid was mild compared to some of the stuff Cory did! Ask She remembers.

    I am in no way comparing Cory to your son...never. You dont want another Cory...lmao. I dont want anyone to have one.
  14. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Arg. That's the thing I was really afraid of--that my son would break into one of the neighbor's and they'd shoot him.
    After he took the undies, my main thing was worry, worry, worry. I never got angry. The lying peeved me but I expected it. (Sad to say.)

    Is Cory living on his own now? Functioning any better?
  15. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Cory? Living on his own? LMAO...omg...rolling here...lmao...snort...breathe janet...breathe...snort...roll...snort....lmao!

    Ok...whew...wiping tears from my eyes....

    Obviously from my reaction you can guess the answer to that question is a resounding NO! My beloved baby boy is .... let me see...3 or 4 days from getting off house arrest for committing 4 or 5 felonies...I cant remember! He goes to jail for 30 days on Sept 8th so I get 30 days of peace then. Then he comes out and is on intensive probation for another 6 months, then regular probation for 3 years. Ahhh aint life grand? 3 of the felonies were forgery of checks on me and my oldest son. Wasnt that sweet of him? Gotta have a sense of humor in raising these kids.

    Wish I could say that he grew up and things have changed for the better but so far...Im still waiting for that to happen!
  16. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Oh dear! Now I remember reading about some of that. Sigh.
    So sorry.
    You're opening line gave me a chuckle, though.
  17. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Hon....I laugh about just about everything these days to keep from crying. Im afraid if I start I wont stop. Sigh. Cory is Cory and nothing I can do will change it so I am resigned to him. Im probably a few months out from kicking him out. The writing is on the wall.
  18. flutterbee

    flutterbee Guest

    Something else worth looking at, Terry and Gcvmom is NonVerbal Learning Disorder (NVLD).

    Some people feel it should be on the autism spectrum.

    And Janet, end of the year, remember? :tongue:
  19. gcvmom

    gcvmom Here we go again!

    Interesting, Heather. Thanks for the link. Some of it DOES apply to difficult child 2.