Nothing has changed....

Discussion in 'Parent Emeritus' started by JayPee, Dec 23, 2019.

  1. JayPee

    JayPee Sending good vibes...

    As some of you may know my oldest son who is 30yrs. old and I have not spoken since August. I have cut him off financially and he was verbally abusive to me many, many times but at the last point of communication also physically threatened me, which was my threshold to block him.

    My cell phone "block" expired (because it only holds for 3mo. and then you have to input it again) and he got a voicemail through to me this morning.

    It has sent me spiraling again. I thought time was healing him but that is most definitely not the case. He screamed the whole voicemail at me demanding I help him with upcoming expenses. His car needs repair and he won't be able to get to work and his registration and inspection are coming up in January. He said if I don't help him it's the 2nd car of his "I" ruin (he seized the engine of an older vehicle we had given him because he didn't check the oil like we told him). He continued to demean me and called me a b****. All the while telling me if I have a heart to help him but he's sure cuz I'm a b**** I won't.

    I guess I just needed to vent to people who understand how I feel. It just boggles my mind that someone would speak to another person this way and expect them to help.

    The only person who has changed is me.
  2. WiseChoices

    WiseChoices Active Member

    I am so sorry, JayPee. Nobody deserves to be spoken to in this manner. It's amazing to me that the day your block expires, your son leaves a VM.

    I can only imagine how hurt and shaken up you must feel .I know I would. Maybe it will help to remember that this is about him, not you, and that he is projecting how he feels about himself onto you.

    Sending you much love! Do something really nice for yourself today and show yourself the love and care you deserve .
  3. Crayola13

    Crayola13 Active Member

    I don't know how much in repairs the car needs, but around here, a lot of people are driving without registration. I see cars all the time with expired tags. A couple weeks ago I was someone who hadn't renewed their tags since 1992!
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  4. BusynMember

    BusynMember Well-Known Member

    Crayola, from a lot of what you post I'm guessing you live in a pricey area. Some places charge more than others. You don't have to do emissions testing where I live and prices on all things are moderate. Not like when we lived on the West coast.

    At any rate I wouldn't give him a thing. We have not given Kay anything and she is finding her own creative ways to survive. She even spoke of a job!! Granted it was working on a pot farm, but anything is better than no money and we are done. As far as I know Lee and Kay are living in a California city parked on the streets in a ten year old camper that they can't afford to fix. I am thinking that the camper is for shelter, not transportation.

    I don't like Kay's choices. Never have. But I am not going to take care of her anymore. I feel guilty about this, but I am way calmer and even happier without her around.

    You take care. Blessings and love.
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  5. Acacia

    Acacia Active Member

    Jaypee, I'm so sorry to hear you have been subjected to verbal abuse at anytime, but particulary, just a few days before Christmas. You did nothing to deserve such awful treatment.

    I am in the same boat as you. I blocked my 34 year old difficult son after a verbal tirade and threats. It was clear he has not changed, is full of seething resentments, and blame.

    Try to find ways to quiet the anxiety through this forum, meditation, etc. After episodes like your son had (and mine), I feel the effects physically as well as emotionally. And, you are right, it is we who have changed and know we must detach from toxic relationships.

    Others are right. Be kind to yourself, do something nice for yourself.
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  6. New Leaf

    New Leaf Well-Known Member

    Im so sorry JayPee. My daughter is 31. It still rattles me when she gets ugly over the phone. Or manipulative. She called from jail and tried to get me to do a third party call which is prohibited on the long recording before I am able to speak with her. She can be icky sweet, then drops the bomb. It effects me, I try to shake it off, but it does hurt.
    I’m glad you posted, venting is good. We are living in this bizarre reality with our grown children that most folks would not understand. I’m glad to have this site to reach out to. But I know I need more. There are times when I know I need to have face to face conversations. I hope you have someone to talk with. It helps. Please take very good care of yourself and give yourself time to recover. Although we have all changed in ways we deal with our kids (or not deal with them), inappropriate, unacceptable attacks still sting. Especially around the holidays when everyone is supposed to be joyful. I am so sorry for your aching Mommas heart. From mine to yours,
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  7. Blindsided

    Blindsided Face the Sun

    JayPee, I am so sorry. I totally understand. I have been in a spiral since my last post. As suspected my Difficult Child daughter has found a way to hurt me once again. I know, just as you do, that I allow it. Thing is, how to stop letting it hurt me? I fear she is dying from her alcohol abuse.

    Our Difficult Child's are all over the place. How do we deal with it? My family supports me, but they don't have answers anymore than I do. I am my DCs target. Admittedly, I enabled for far too long. She manipulates, tells me and says I am the most beautiful spirited person she has ever known and follows it up with, but never been there, she is done with me... That is until she wants to try to get money, once again. I think they believe if they keep doing and behaving the way that has worked in the past, we will cave. No caving here. I am painfully reminded that my daughter doesn't want the provisional help I offer. I think they are so mentally messed up, they don't care. If they see they can hurt us, have us awake all night crying because we can't find any answers that make sense (dumb on our part, since the answer does not lie within us, it is theirs alone when they refuse to acknowledge the boundaries) . My daughter, I call her May here, doesn't want to live. My other children tell me to stop trying, there is absolutely nothing I say that she will ever respond to nicely. I start feeling like I might be a masochist. I think if I hadn't let May's paternal side aunt get to me so badly, I would be navigating better.

    I think it's difficult for everyone this time of the year. Stick to your boundaries because in the end, nothing changes except our own well-being is affected negatively. My other children have asked me to quit reaching out, while my sister says I have to get a handle on the fact my Difficult Child is a mentally ill alcoholic. She says not to block my Difficult Child, my best friend and other family says do what I need to do for me. I took counsel from everyone. I have blocked phone calls, but not texts. May lives in another state, by her choice. She is dying, by her choice. She is alone because of the way she has treated all those who have tried to help her help herself.

    We can't make them do the right thing. They have to want to.

    My heart breaks for every other mother out there who is in this situation, especially those who don't have a place like this to work through their feelings and actions toward disentanglement. Am I good? Not today. But I am better. Working at three steps forward and only one back.

    This is what I have done. My favorite hobby is photography. My husband took me out into nature so I could clear my head space. I have baked a ton of cookies to share with the neighbors. Next is to reorganize my freezer. Keep moving.

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  8. JayPee

    JayPee Sending good vibes...

    Thank you all for your support and encouragement. That voicemail has affected my entire day. Trying to concentrate at work when my mind keeps replaying the venomous voicemail was difficult.

    I needed to park my pain here and gather strength. I think it will take me awhile to stop spiraling. I do have a therapist who is on holiday and Al anon, my belief in God and those are the things I will use to pull myself up.

    I’m just dumbfounded that he can be so volatile, hurtful and disrespectful and somehow think that I will be handing out cash. I know that he’s had plenty of practice at this where I did give in.

    My therapist told me his behavior is like the pellet and pigeon analysis by “Skinner”. A pigeon is put in a box with a pellet container. With each peck a pellet came down. Every 3rd peck it didn’t. The pigeon continues to peck to see if a pellet will release.

    My son has had plenty of times in the past that he pecked at me and a pellet came down in the form of money.

    I can only thank God I’m stronger now. A long way to go but I’ve made progress.
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  9. Albatross

    Albatross Well-Known Member

    I’m so sorry you had to endure that undeserved torrent of verbal vomit, Jaypea. I’m sorry he has taken your cutting contact as a reason to nurse a (ridiculous) grudge instead of a cue to reflect on his actions that led you to take such a step. I’m sorry his first attempt at contact was a demand seasoned with cruel name-calling. I feel your grief and anger, as I have also been the target of such cruel words. In my son’s case, he would try going through Hubs to deliver them, hoping to triangulate us, and it left me in a blind panic as if my very foundation had been knocked away.

    If you are like me, you wonder if your son has changed yet, if there has been some spark kindled in the children we once knew. At least you know without having to interact with him and risk more stress and cruelty...he’s not there yet...
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  10. Triedntrue

    Triedntrue Well-Known Member

    I have also blocked my ds. He called from jail with a list of mommy do this and when i said no to one he called me all kind of nasty names including a b#[email protected] and a c&;#:. I said thats it i am done and hung up and blocked him. He writes letters now mostly respectful but still asking me for money and favors. I decide what i want to do and not do. Last letters were mostly no. I did check on an ill friend for him.
    Neither of us should have to put up with that. Hold strong jaypee! We have to respect ourselves.
  11. MissLulu

    MissLulu Active Member

    JP, I'm so sorry this has happened, especially at this time of year when you are most likely already feeling fragile. Know that we understand and that you are not alone. I had a difficult day with my son yesterday. (Will post my own thread about this later because I don't want to hijack yours.) I don't know what else to say other than keep on detaching with love (as you have been) and try not to let this latest episode steal your joy. (Easier said than done, I know.) Sending you hugs.
  12. Tanya M

    Tanya M Living with an attitude of gratitude Staff Member

    I too wonder the same thing JayPee. My son has done the same thing to me, spew his hate and then demand I help him.

    This is the best part of your post!! You have changed, you have made the choice to no longer allow your son to hold your emotions hostage. Sure, it still hurts when our own child treats us with such disdain but we do not have to wallow in it for days on end. The more we work on detaching the easier it gets and the faster we are able to recover from their verbal attacks.

    This type of behavior is straight out of the "Adult Difficult Child Handbook" I have lost count of how many times my son has read from that book.
    "if you loved me you would help me", my son has said this to me many times. There were times in the past when I would counter "but I have helped you, and then I would list all the things I've done, all the money I have given, etc....." and his reply would always be the same "why do you have to bring up the past, this is the present and I need help now!!!!" He would then continue on his tirade and start talking in circles.
    There comes a point when we make the choice to no longer allow our adult child to drag us down the rabbit hole.
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  13. RN0441

    RN0441 100% better than I was but not at 100% yet

    I am so sorry.

    Sending you prayers this holiday season.
  14. Beta

    Beta Active Member

    Jaypee, I could have written your post. My husband read your post and said, "That sounds familiar, doesn't it?" We gave our son a car of ours and, due to his neglect of it, the engine seized up last January and he been without a car. Instead of being grateful for what we had done to help him, he has constantly berated us for giving him "a piece of sh*t" and blamed us for not giving him money for another car.

    "I guess I just needed to vent to people who understand how I feel. It just boggles my mind that someone would speak to another person this way and expect them to help."
    I don't get this either--if for no other reason than the fact it's totally illogical and self-sabotaging.

    I can echo the same thing. Abuse like that affects emotionally and physically and just leaves us beaten down. That's why we have to put up boundaries and be responsible enough to protect ourselves from it. God does not expect us to be the objects of that behavior. I hope that you are beginning to bounce back from that terrible episode of abuse.
  15. WiseChoices

    WiseChoices Active Member

    Same here. We gave son one of our cars to go to college with, and were accused of dumping our *sh#* on him, that we just wanted to get rid of it. It was worth $3K at the time and I could have traded it in towards a new car. He trashed it out until we signed it over and told him he was 100% responsible for everything concerning his car. He let a friend drive it while they were both high and totalled it. Only then did he realize and apologized and said he know understood we had been wanting to give him a good start into adulthood with a paid for car. Uhm, yes, exactly. I am learning that giving young people things without them having to work for them does not work. For xmas, we kept it very simple. Gift card for food for $50 and gift card for gas for $50. Considering that son had , again, nothing for us, not even a card, I am glad we went this route.
  16. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    This is called intermittent reinforcement. It's the hardest of behaviors to extinguish. Because it was randomly rewarded, the recipient holds out and holds out.
    Here I think you've gone down the rabbit hole, with him. There is no logic. No rationality. No way to understand what he is doing that you will come to. What he's doing is driven by irrationality. Fueled by desperation or even venomous cruelty. As long as you seek to understand you will be continue to be a victim of it. (I do this too. A lot.) This is why "why questions" are so dangerous. We spiral downward, ever downward, because there is never an answer that can suffice.

    I believe the key is what I call "turning." Just turn yourself to look in the other direction. Away. And with that there is renewal and peace.

    I think you still must feel there's fault or responsibility on your part. There is none. This is a grown man, nearly middle age. He's abusing you. End of story.

    I wonder if you would consider changing your cell phone number. I would not want you to have to suffer from even one more of these calls; not even one more time.

    I am sorry. You never deserved any of this. Nobody would. But you least of all. I am sorry.
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  17. Beta

    Beta Active Member

    This was wise. Then you don't have to feel the degree of hurt and disappointment that comes when you give extravagantly out of love, anticipating their pleasure and gratitude, only to receive scorn and ingratitude. We chose not to send any money to Josh this Christmas, having given him money at Thanksgiving for food, only to have him return to his usual abuse within a few days. Come to think of it, our youngest son, whom I know loves us, didn't give us so much as a card either. Hmm...not sure what to think about that. Is it a millennial thing? A "guy" thing? Or is it just entitlement?

    Copa is right. And I take this truth for myself in our circumstance, as well. Thank you Copa.
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  18. JayPee

    JayPee Sending good vibes...

    Copa you make many good points across the board. I do blame myself for not having the strength to get out of a very difficult relationship with my ex sooner. Way sooner. I often feel responsible that the unstable environment they lived in caused their now horrible behavior.
    I try to figure out why they behave the way the do. Over and over in my head. It’s exhausting and I likely will never have a definitive answer.
    Trying to grow and get better has a lot of set backs but I keep trying.
  19. Moved On

    Moved On New Member

    JayPee, I believe Copa said it best (and very succinctly as well):
    Although it can feel like the most difficult, most impossible thing to do, when you can turn yourself AWAY and look the other direction -- to focus on something else, anything else -- there lies renewal and blessed, glorious, PEACE.
    Sending you big hugs.
  20. Acacia

    Acacia Active Member

    So many of us on this site have helped our loved ones with good intentions only to be rewarded with abuse. There is so much compassion and wisdom shared by members, which helps us to gain the strength to turn, as Copa says, to save ourselves.

    Sending hugs and serenity, Jaypee