speaking of anxiety...

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by klmno, Aug 14, 2008.

  1. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    I met with intern psychiatric again today to cover some of difficult child's history (we got thru 1 of 3 years LOL). I'm glad- I think he needs to know the whole story.

    Anyway, he talked about anxiety and depression for a minute and said that insurance cos seem to always stress that they are ALWAYS two completely different things because they can sell more pills that way. But, he says, look at it like this....(and he draws this on the board)




    then, he circled the area where they overlap and said think about the common feelings (doubt, negativity about self, lack of confidence, etc) He asked if I saw what he meant. I said yes, I think I've been there! He said he had, too, but the point was that sometimes there isn't a real distinguishable difference between these two things, so sometimes tdocs/psychiatrists might see things and say things differently because the kid (or any person) is in that "overlap" place, while we as parents might just be noticing what we think are signs of anxiety (or depression) alone.

    I found that interesting since there was a thread a few days ago about what constitutes true anxiety to a therapist/psychiatrist. I will have to look at it differently and see if I notice an "overlap" the next time difficult child appears to have anxiety about something.
  2. flutterbee

    flutterbee Guest

    Anxiety and depression often go hand in hand. What is helpful in regards to therapy is to try to identify which one is fueling the other.

    For example, with me, depression fuels my anxiety. When the depression is gone, the anxiety is greatly lessened. difficult child seems to be the opposite.
  3. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I was told that the "newest" school of thought is there is "mood disorder spectrum." On it are depression, bipolar, anxiety and Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD) and that they are all part of the same thing.
    I don't know if it's accurate, but I personally do think there is validity to it. I never met anyone with a mood disorder (and I've been hospitalized three times as an adult) who didn't also have high anxiety. They do seem to go together. Often you CAN find a medication that treats both.
  4. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    I was told that, too!!

    Big DITTO!!!
  5. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    Good point, Heather- maybe that is why psychiatrist on MDE kept telling me that she didn't think difficult child's issue was anxiety, after I gave a few examples of him exhibiting anxiety type behavior- maybe she was saying she thinks it is the depression driving the anxiety.

    That was supposed to say "pharmaceutical(sp) cos" not insurance cos.
  6. Andy

    Andy Active Member

    My difficult child has high anxiety. By the time this was diagnosed, there was a very brief period of time where he was depressed but no longer since he has been on medications and in therapy. Once he knew he was receiving help, the depression went away.

    This may change once school starts and new stressors are added but for now, he is dealing with only anxiety.

    I don't think bipolar, depression, anxiety, and Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD) are part of the same thing. Maybe the same medications are useful in all situations and when you have one it can contribute toward another but I think they are seperate illnesses and with one you may not have another.

    Heather explained it well.
  7. gcvmom

    gcvmom Here we go again!

    See, for me, my anxiety fuels my depression!

    I think that there are varying degrees and some overlap with the different disorders. Lots of grey -- very few people who are black and white so to speak. If you think of it in terms of optical prescriptions... there's nearsighted, farsighted and then there's astigmatism. Some people need bifocals! Some need trifocals!

    With neurotransmitters, what causes bipolar in one person isn't necessarily the same neurochemical situation for another.

    I look at husband and I see someone who has an undx'd mood disorder and maybe a smattering of ADHD (mood swings, rages, impulse control problems, attentional problems, organizational problems). His GP only saw a guy who might have anxiety issues and so he gave him Paxil. And that helped some of his symptoms. Then husband started Lamictal for his seizures: Lo! And Behold! He is a completely different person -- gone are the rages, gone is the emotional reactivity, the impulse control is MUCH improved (not perfect, mind you), he can actually attend to a conversation with me for more than 30 seconds. He is also more productive, more even keeled, and a happier guy. psychiatrist tells me off the record that he always suspected husband to be a depressed person (thus the irritability, the ready-to-fight-with-the-world attitude, the extreme negativity, the lack of motivation, etc.) -- and that would explain why Lamictal has helped, even if it was through the back door. So some people might say husband is some flavor of bipolar.

    And then there's difficult child 2, who is another flavor of bipolar, with his own unique response to medications, his own brand of symptoms, some of which are similar to his dad's, and some that are very different. Of course, he's also a child.
  8. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    I think that is a good way of putting it, gcvmom!

    Unfortunately, I need bifocals...:not_fair::sad:
  9. flutterbee

    flutterbee Guest

    I wholeheartedly buy that. I think when it comes to mental illness, there are more shades of gray and very little black and white.
  10. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful

    I have to say that I agree whole-heartedly with this too. I've seen it with family members as well as in hospitals with patients.

    Anxiety usually triggers my depression. And stress usually triggers my anxiety. Although I did have major PTSD after being run over a few years back. Knowing what causes each most certainly helps me in dealing with them both.

    I am bipolar, yet do not require medications on a daily basis. There have been times when I did need them, and I can recognize it and go get them. I know there are others like me, but there are most certainly those who need the daily medications consistantly, and even those that still have major problems even taking the medications as prescribed.
  11. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I am a person who needs medications daily and assume I will for the rest of my life. I know I have a very pronounced anxiety component to my illnesses. Where it comes from is anyones guess. I dont list all that I have been diagnosed with but I have the bipolar, borderline and ptsd. The anxiety could come from any of those. I suppose it could even creep in from the physical side.

    I know when my pain, anxiety, and insomnia are not under control, I am much less stable. I tend to swing faster into my highs and lows faster and faster. Even with the medications on board. Im running into that right now. I think I may have to call in for something because I cant get this under control on my own.
  12. flutterbee

    flutterbee Guest

    Janet, I'm sorry to hear that. You can call me if you need to. I'm either up all night or sleeping all the time. If I answer the phone, you can guess which I'm doing. :tongue:
  13. gcvmom

    gcvmom Here we go again!

    Okay, so not to hijack this thread, but Janet and Heather you lead me to ask what you think causes insomnia in your cases -- 'cuz I just can't seem to get to bed before midnight most nights, and am usually up until 2am... sometimes later.

    I'm usually online here or reading email or surfing the net about stuff related to difficult child's or playing mindless computer games like Spider Solitaire, or reading or... you get the picture.

    I just can't seem to shut off my head. And yes, I take medications for anxiety. So WTH? I figured my medications were working because I'm not a raving b!tch like I used to be when the kids were little and I was completely overwhelmed with life. I am fairly patient. I don't cry at the drop of a hat. I'm not suicidal (tho up until about 8 months ago, the thought did cross my mind occasionally). I'm fairly productive during the day (but would like to be MORE so).

    (by the way, I usually only have 1 cup of coffee in the morning. One or two diet colas during the day.)

    Is it just the fact that I've been dealing with a load of stuff for a looooong time? (Hmmm, husband's brain surgery, difficult child 1's illness, difficult child 2's instability, and 17+ years of marital issues due to husband's undx'd mental health problems that were unresolved until his surgery... to name a few.) Huh? Huh? What is it? For the LOVE OF PETE, WHAT'S GOING ON WITH ME????

    Okay. Good to get that out. We now return you to our regular thread programming...
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2008
  14. flutterbee

    flutterbee Guest

    For me, I've always been this way. Since I was about...hmmm....7. Maybe younger. I haven't been diagnosis'd, but they had a sleep thing on CNN about a year or so ago and I related to the one segment. Let me go see what's it called again.

    Here it is: Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome


    I don't think it talks about it in that particular article, but there is usually a time in the early evening when people with this get very tired. But, as we have to live and function in society, you can't really go to bed at 7pm when you have kids. But, by 9pm I'd be wide awake. It wasn't at all unusual for me to start cleaning the house at 9 or 10 at night. I have never ever been a morning person. In fact, my mom used to say that there is a place for people like me and it's called 3rd shift. :D My grandmother is the same way. So is my brother.

    However, it is much worse when I'm anxious or depressed and I just can't shut my brain off. I try to force myself to think about other things or force myself to 'daydream' and even consciously think up things to 'daydream' about so that I can go to sleep. Sometimes it works. Other times, not so well.

    I've also never been one to go to bed and fall right asleep, with very few exceptions. No matter how tired I am, I am guaranteed to lay in bed a minimum of 30 minutes before falling asleep. Even with sleep medications.

    I have found that playing mindless games like solitaire helps me to become relaxed enough to go to sleep faster. I think with anxiety our brain is in GO all the time and the mindless activity is a way to wind down.

    Hope this helps some.
  15. flutterbee

    flutterbee Guest

    Oh...and just to add...my medications are working because I'm no longer a raving b... either like I used to be. Sleep issue is still here, though.

    Glad you got that out. ;)
  16. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    Hey, Lisa- this looks an awful lot like difficult child's MDE summary and long-term treatment plan!! LOL! According to his psychiatrist, recognizing and dealing with the things in the first paragraph gives the best chance for the success of reaching the point where you are- and that makes a lot of sense to me. Although, I realize that some have worse cases than others so we don't know if difficult child will ever reach that point or not, but learning how to recognize and cope with anxiety, stress, and depression will help him either way.