Squatters

[Nomad]

Last Spring we helped her move to a new city. This city is closer to our home and now she gets to come to our home fir holidays regularly. It’s lovely for her.

She was having huge problems with the man who lived below her at her previous condo. Ironically, similar to us, his family assisted him to live there due to his mental illness. The two mentally ill people living so close ended up clashing. Of the two, we felt he was worse, so we felt a little sorry for her.

So she is now in this new place that is much nicer and closer. We helped that happen including painting, fixing things up and buying almost all new furniture from Wayfair which we assembled ourselves. It was exhausting.

Her place ended up beautiful and her friends freak out at how well it came out. She is delighted. I can’t say how much effort , time, money, blood sweet and tears have been shed to help her. I’m avoiding going into detail…but we busted our butts for 3-4 weeks. We wanted her to be proud of her new place and we did it quickly at the height of the Pandemic. She was pushing us as she was afraid of her mean /unwell former neighbor at her previous condo in her previous city. It was an enormous effort for my husband and I to move quickly and efficiently.

However, she allowed strangers into the unit even though she promised not to. A homeless couple. Even though she now has a lovely place.

She also lied to us about some things recently that likely is in connection to these people staying there.

Come to find out they have been there over a month. She tried to get them to leave and they simply said “no.” After a month, she called the police snd they (freeloaders) said they had “squatter’s rights “ and they could not be forced to leave. And the police said this is true. A formal eviction has to take place.

She had a mental breakdown yesterday arguing with them (a story in and of itself). She was put in a psyche hospital. She confesses that she has done “it” again re strangers in her place. They won’t leave. And they stole from her.

she was released from the hospital in 24 hours.

She is staying with a friend now amd these freeloaders are there at her place. The friend has problems of her own that I don’t wish to say. Not mental health issues. This will be a burden to the friend for our daughter to stay there, especially fir any length of time. Does our daughter care…not really.

Eviction proceedings are about to start. It might take a month.

We plan to tell her that she can’t return to the condo after the eviction unless she sees a psychologist and psychiatrist regularly and she allows a social worker to come in once a week to inspect the place. It might get ugly. Why? Because she is likely to throw a fit about this.

My husband said she let us down and chose these strangers over her family that have done everything to help her. She said she doesn’t understand what he is talking about. Huh? She says she messed up and is sorry…but it kinda seems mostly because they won’t leave snd there are problems. Not so much that it’s a horrible idea, she has seen this repeatedly AND she promised us she wouldn’t do it again.

We don't wish to see her right now for a month and too bad, so sad, this includes Xmas.

IF she doesn’t agree to this ( psychologist visits and social worker going to her place weekly) OR she allows this type of thing to happen again, we plan on evicting her and withdrawing our support. She likely would do extremely big time poorly on her own.

I have health issues and my husband is a bit older. All of this is taking a deep toll on us.

It’s impossible fir me to believe she has absolutely zero control of this type of behavior. She takes her medications regularly, but never sees a psychologist. She does better when she sees one.

My husband is not so sure if she has control. The legal person we spoke to re evictions says she has seen /heard of this story repeatedly from others and isn’t sure they have control. She loved the idea of a weekly social worker.

Some of this is just venting. I’m sorry, but I wish to avoid very particular details.

Thirty plus years of great difficulties. Much effort. Much sorrow. And repeated costly and scary mistakes. I couldn’t possibly fully describe the enormous toll. I’m done.

Again, our plan is if she doesn’t agree to our terms re extra professional help and weekly inspections or does this again, is to evict her and withdraw our support. This likely would be enormously bad for her. But again, I’m done.

Thoughts?

Thank you.

 

[Wish]

My guess is she gets incredibly lonely which is why she allows homeless people to stay with her. This kind of reminds me of a man that I know. I met him a long time ago through rescuing his dog, come to find out he was homeless. I continued to help with his dog because I was in dog rescue at the time and his dog was simply so darn cute. Come to further find out, he wasn't poor at all. He drew $1,500 a month in retirement and has master medical coverage. Now I know that's not a lot but he was still in his last 50's early 60's and could have worked to easily supplement that. Even a Walmart job would have sufficed. But he literally chose to be homeless. Chose to live in the streets. Chose to pan handle. Chose to live as a homeless person.

Why you ask? (Keep in mind, it took me a long time to figure this out about him). From what I could figure, simply because he was all alone. When his wife died, he absolutely lost it, he moved far away from where he lived to my town, didn't know anyone and simply became a man of the streets with his dog and he hung around rift raft, the homeless community, constantly. Those were his friends and family. That's who he found comfort and solace in. Who the hell knows why. As far as I knew, he didn't drink or do drugs, but all of his homeless friends did. He was just LONELY and when you are lonely and aren't strong enough to handle the loneliness, rift raft is who you are attracted to because most normal people won't accept loners because they already have their friend circles formed and wont' accept newbies. Homeless people people on drugs, will accept you on the spot, specifically if you have money, a place for them to stay, etc. I can't tell you how many stories he told me about how many times these friends screwed him over. I even had to rescue him one or two times because his dog got involved, oh boy what a story that was.

Anyway, he could have easily found a little spot for himself and his dog to live, but because he didn't want to be alone and needed people around him ALL THE TIME, he chose to be homeless. Let that sink in.

Anyway, maybe your daughter is the same in the way, meaning she can't be alone. The man in my story is far from the only one who I know is like this. I know quite a few people who are like this. They can't be alone, ever. It's a disease it seems like.

 

[BusynMember1]

Hi Nomad. Here you are again and we get it. But I do have a slightly different take on things than some and my daughter is also adopted and I think that matters. Maybe a lot but not in the way that she doesn't love you. She loves you. This is just my take.

Our adopted kids come to us and we know very little about their lives before birth. We hope their birthmothers took care of themselves to help our child be healthy and live well. But sometimes that did not happen and we have.no choice but to adjust. Here me out.

We have always felt that Kay has fetal alcohol issues. We can't prove it. She doesn't have the features. But one can be born with brain damage from alcohol and look normal. What they can't do is act normal. Not they won't act normally. Some can't. They have permanant.brain damage. They behave differently than others. This does NOT mean that your daughter has THIS. It was an example.

Our adopted kids can have mild to severe brain changes due to ther birthmothers prebirth life. This can happen from anything to poor nutrition to using drugs while pregnant to drinking while pregnant or getting no medical treatment at all. This damage prenatally often impacts their ability to learn from experiences. So they rinse repeat....I bring up fetal alcohol only because with that sort of brain damage they CANT learn from experience. I don't know what cocaine or meth does to the brain of a developing fetus. Can't be good and sometimes we don't know it was used.

On top of the possible abuse in utero, our kids often inherit mental illness of various sorts. Kay definitely is not in any way an average person. She is sick. We see this in Jaden her son too. God knows what she took while pregnant with him! Or what he inherited from her. Not everything is a psychological issue. Some things are physical and brain or neurological damage, hard to diagnose. Although daughter being lonely may be an issue or maybe she keeps thinking roommates will help her function which be hard for her. Impossible to know.

I think you have every right to see if distancing from your daughter works. I am not sure she can do better than she is while living on her own. Does she have a case manager who will call her and look out for her? I thought that went with SSDI.

Our own take on Kay is that she partly can't help the horrible life she lives. She also refuses to get therapy, like your daughter. We gave her lots, like you have. We believe Kay is unable to appreciate anything. She has a very strange inability to express emotions. Oh she is loud and over the top in behavior but expresses no love or fear. Just anger. And I think she was born this way.

Having said that, there is only such we can do. Kay would not get help. So we quit the money train and she quit talking to us.

There is nothing anyone can do for a disabled child who won't get the maximum help and try hard. Even though it is hard for them. And us too. We can't force it.

You have every right to take a break. But do possibly remember your daughter may be doing what she does due to things you can't know. Even so you can not take care of her forever. Have you thought of a group home? I did but Kay....you can imagine her reaction.

As another mom who struggles too and who just had to detach you have all my love and prayers. I relate to you because like us you also have a functioning child.

Keep in touch. I care....we all care. I think most of us are bewildered about our difficult adult.kids. but we have each other. Enjoy your Christmas. Maybe see your daughter alone in a restaurant near Christmas time. Or not. Up to you. Take care of YOU first. Hugs.

 

[Wish]

I just want to add one little but important thing, in no way was I trying to excuse her or insinuate that you should tolerate her lifestyle. I was just offering insight as to why she might be doing what she is doing because there is much little else that I can offer advise wise. That sucks that you guys put so much damn work into helping her set up her beautiful spot and now it's being taken over by two squatters. Is she at least pissed off by this, her place being taken over by these jerks? It pisses me off and it's not even my situation.

 

[Wish]

Hi Nomad. Here you are again and we get it. But I do have a slightly different take on things than some and my daughter is also adopted and I think that matters. Maybe a lot but not in the way that she doesn't love you. She loves you. This is just my take.

Our adopted kids come to us and we know very little about their lives before birth. We hope their birthmothers took care of themselves to help our child be healthy and live well. But sometimes that did not happen and we have.no choice but to adjust. Here me out.

We have always felt that Kay has fetal alcohol issues. We can't prove it. She doesn't have the features. But one can be born with brain damage from alcohol and look normal. What they can't do is act normal. Not they won't act normally. Some can't. They have permanant.brain damage. They behave differently than others. This does NOT mean that your daughter has THIS. It was an example.

Our adopted kids can have mild to severe brain changes due to ther birthmothers prebirth life. This can happen from anything to poor nutrition to using drugs while pregnant to drinking while pregnant or getting no medical treatment at all. This damage prenatally often impacts their ability to learn from experiences. So they rinse repeat....I bring up fetal alcohol only because with that sort of brain damage they CANT learn from experience. I don't know what cocaine or meth does to the brain of a developing fetus. Can't be good and sometimes we don't know it was used.

On top of the possible abuse in utero, our kids often inherit mental illness of various sorts. Kay definitely is not in any way an average person. She is sick. We see this in Jaden her son too. God knows what she took while pregnant with him! Or what he inherited from her. Not everything is a psychological issue. Some things are physical and brain or neurological damage, hard to diagnose. Although daughter being lonely may be an issue or maybe she keeps thinking roommates will help her function which be hard for her. Impossible to know.

I think you have every right to see if distancing from your daughter works. I am not sure she can do better than she is while living on her own. Does she have a case manager who will call her and look out for her? I thought that went with SSDI.

Our own take on Kay is that she partly can't help the horrible life she lives. She also refuses to get therapy, like your daughter. We gave her lots, like you have. We believe Kay is unable to appreciate anything. She has a very strange inability to express emotions. Oh she is loud and over the top in behavior but expresses no love or fear. Just anger. And I think she was born this way.

Having said that, there is only such we can do. Kay would not get help. So we quit the money train and she quit talking to us.

There is nothing anyone can do for a disabled child who won't get the maximum help and try hard. Even though it is hard for them. And us too. We can't force it.

You have every right to take a break. But do possibly remember your daughter may be doing what she does due to things you can't know. Even so you can not take care of her forever. Have you thought of a group home? I did but Kay....you can imagine her reaction.

As another mom who struggles too and who just had to detach you have all my love and prayers. I relate to you because like us you also have a functioning child.

Keep in touch. I care....we all care. I think most of us are bewildered about our difficult adult.kids. but we have each other. Enjoy your Christmas. Maybe see your daughter alone in a restaurant near Christmas time. Or not. Up to you. Take care of YOU first. Hugs.

Just curious, how is your daughter Kay now? Did she get any better?

 

[Nomad]

Thank you BOTH very much.
I sense much truth in your posts.
Busy day with phone calls and I’ve had tremendous insomnia and am moving slowly.
The man squatter we found out has a long rap sheet of misdemeanors and felonies.
He stole her cash cards and made what looks like one purchase.
Daughter cancelled the cards.
Daughter is staying with a friend.
The President of the HOA called us and told us WE are in violation of the HOA rules having them there.
We are trying to give him (squatter) some money to leave soon. Not sure if that will happen. The person is on line to start the eviction process very soon.
Daughter apologized but we greatly sensed it was not genuine.
She is staying with a friend who has a tiny home and many deep personal issues of her own. Greatly doubt our daughter appreciates the sacrifice her friend is making on her behalf.
We have cancelled her birthday celebration and will likely cancel Xmas with her too. Nothing to celebrate when you e been so clearly lied to and disrespected.
She absolutely MUST agree to a weekly visit by a social worker to her place snd some other things or she will not be allowed back and her life will likely be very bad for her.
What’s happening now isn’t working.
And we are “done.” Operating on fumes.
I hope she makes the right decision, but I can’t make it fir her.
Busy…can I pm you?
Thank you again

 

[RN0441]

Nomad

So sorry you are going through this. We just cannot control any of these things that we want to take hold of so badly!

I agree that she must have clear boundaries and rules and if not you have to distance yourself. As others have said, you and hubby are not going to be around forever!

What a mess she has made for you. I just don't think she "gets it".

Hugs.

 

[Copabanana]

Hi Nomad

I am so sorry about this situation. Again.

I agree with the others. She wants to be liked. She wants to be a nice person. She takes you and your husband for granted. I also think her judgment is quite impaired. Although she behaves disloyally I don't believe she sees the consequences of her acts. I believe she feels victimized by the people and doesn't believe she deserves consequences. After all, it's their fault, in her mind. She sees her intentions to have been good. She may not have the ego strength to say no in the moment, or even to remember her commitments.

The learning comes from us.

I agree there needs to be 3rd parties involved. For example, the Rescue Mission where I live has a program for recovering addicts, most of whom have serious mental health issues. There is a year long program preparing them for independent living, but even then, it's not really independent. There are helpers that handle landlords and monitor and assist with independent living skills, bill paying and other kinds of functioning.

It may be that this is what your daughter needs. While a psychologist would help I think she needs people to help her with decision-making, understanding cause and effect, and managing relationships. She may need supervision. I am not sure if this is a psychologist.

Like Wish says, she may not be equipped to live alone. She may need to live in a sheltered living situation.

The beauty of the apartment is not what is going to enable her to function in the way you expect. It's social support, monitoring, day to day accountability coaching, structure, etc. that she needs.

When my mother was ill and dying she lived in two supportive living situations, one, a rehab and the other a skilled nursing facility. In each of these places there were people living there who did not have physical illnesses or disabilities, in the main. They were people who just couldn't manage living on their own. SSI paid for them to live in these places. I am pretty sure that they did have to pay a part of their SSI payment.

I am remembering too an old acquaintance, actually a psychologist, a bit older than I am. He had a history of depression and he is now living in a board and care home, a protected situation. There are people who just can't handle negotiating problems. Your daughter may bevone of these people. She may be unable to do the kinds of things and make the kinds of judgement calls, that independent living requires. It's not that she's betraying you. It's that her thinking is not like yours.

I think the place to start is with her Case Manager for SSI. Another place to start is the Mental Health Department in the county where she lives. They might well have a program to help seriously mentally ill people live independently.

Another idea: Is there a trustworthy friend of hers that could live with her, if the apartment is big enough? Two people together might compensate for the other's lacks.

I am right there where you are. Nothing of anything I have tried has worked. I am left thinking that the last people who can handle the issues of these adult children with serious mental illness and conduct problems--are their parents.

Love, Copa

PS. The more I think about this the more I think she could be over her head. It’s not that she won’t do what’s needed. She may not have the skillset.

This is the same situation I’m in with my son. I have these expectations, these conditions (over and over.) I feel he won’t do it. That it’s willful.

It’s too painful for me to accept—he can’t. He doesn’t intend what he does or does not do. It’s who he is.

 

[Deni D]

Nomad, I too agree with you and everyone else. She's not learning from doing these things over and over, so it's obvious she can't. She needs restrictions she can't get around for it to work for her. You had mentioned therapy ongoing, I think it really could help her in some ways at least, give her a concrete way to work through her decision making process in this area at least. Could be volunteering somewhere might also help her with loneliness and the wanting to help others, but not someplace where she could rescue people or animals into her home.

I think squatters rights should not apply in a situation like this but sadly they do. It's too bad you don't know a tough person who would move on in with those squatters and make their lives miserable.

 

[Nomad]

Thank you. It’s extremely bad.

It’s actually worse this moment. She went back to get some personal things. They messed up some of her personal belongings. She went hysterical. The guy pulled a knife on her. The police were called. The man said he was afraid of her. They did nothing. He is threatening to sue us. (?). The squatter seems intelligent/knowledgeable/street smart but also like a violent con man. He has a long criminal arrest record including many felonies for violence and drugs. We tried making him a generous deal to leave Friday. He did not take it. He wants us to pay a month in a hotel and half of a deposit for a trailer after that. Wth? He has taken over the place. Best guess is if he is there any length of time he will destroy the place and/or sell any items of value. This is horrible. Husband and I busted our butts for months getting it nice …new items…much physical labor.

ALL your input is wise and helpful. She needs supervision. Her bio mother is a schizophrenic vagabond. Bio father is/was bipolar. He passed relatively young. He was obese. Daughter is also obese. Her (bio mother’s) family only hears from her ever few years. I do have some fear she (daughter) could end up like this. I hope not.

This has been probably the worst experience yet. There have been so many. We are in a very bad place ourselves. My gp is worried I’m at risk for a stroke due to my varying medical issues and has given me some medications.

We are In very bad shape.

 

[RN0441]

Nomad

Oh my gosh I cannot even believe the police will not help you get these people out of your place!! That is just ridiculous!!!

You must take care of yourselves through all of this but I know you won't have peace until this is resolved.

I am sure you did not see this coming. It seems like the time has come for you to protect your assets and your health first and foremost.

 

[Nomad]

Yes.
Many people, if not most people, don’t know that criminal trespassers have ALL the rights after thirty days even if they break into the home.
They are treated like they gave a lease and are paying up on the rent. And non of that is the case. They completely take over legally. You have to file a formal eviction which can take a long time…potentially longer due to Covid. Owners can’t even turn off electricity legal.

This law is so strange and unfair, even if a burglar was to break into a home and the owners were on vacation and didn’t know it…IF they were there thirty days, they have every legal right now to fully assume/use that property as if they have a lease and are paying monthly. Even though they are clear cut/blatant criminals.

They stated this repeatedly to the police and the police said it was true. It’s as if we and our renter the legit people here are now the intruders.

Evicting them (that’s not the technical term in this case…but it’s very similar) will not be a problem at all. Costly for us though. And unsure of the time frame.

The law screws the owners in this scenario.

My husband and I have been abused all around.

 

[RN0441]

The squatters are just lucky that you two aren't crazy people and do something irrational to get them out!! A lot of people would be driven to this but of course you don't want to do anything illegal.

I'm thinking like tear gas or something!! I just can't imagine the helpless feeling. It's not right.

 

[Nomad]

Our daughter was at least vaguely familiar with the thirty day thing. She was not allowed to have any guests or to sublease. She broke all the rules. She says they kept on telling her they will be out in two days. After thirty days hit they got real mean to her and she had a breakdown. When she got back to the unit to get her clothes, they provoked her …messed up some things snd put broken glass in her bed. It’s very ugly and disturbing all around.

 

[Wish]

Nomad, is this a rental or do you own this condo?

 

[Copabanana]

Dear Nomad

The only thing that matters right now is your state of mind and your health. And that of your husband. Now is the time to cut your losses. If it is within your means to do so I would consider that your husband and/or your attorney negotiate with this evil man. It may be worth your while because the condo board may take action against you, as long as you are considered to be the responsible players here.

At first I thought that maybe you can just wait them out, until the eviction occurs. But if the condo board is taking action, you may have more risk that way. And G-d knows what else they can do. What if they hurt somebody? These people are clearly evil and demented. Putting glass in your daughter's bed?

I would try not to keep thinking about the injustice here. This is the reality here. We are best protected if we can see the reality and not what should be or what could be. The reality is that as long as the law and the police are supporting the rights of these evildoers, they hold the cards. I would contact a landlord's rights attorney and try to either assert whatever protections you might have, or do what it takes to get them out.

I would never ever again let your daughter live in a property for which you have any responsibility. She can't handle it.

I am so very, very sorry for this circumstance.

Do whatever it takes to stop this abuse, that is within your means to do. Do whatever it takes to restore peace and safety and tranquility. That is what I think. Your health and life depend upon it. The destruction of the place, while horrible, is secondary to your health and to the possibility of legal action by the condo board, and the potential for violence of these people.

 

[Nomad]

Yes. Thank you.

The HOA is taking it easy on us. The HOA president is appalled. He was there yesterday (we called him to help us) when the squatter pulled a knife and police refused to arrest him.

A little good news..Our legal expert is writing up the case today. She is sending it to us tonight. There is some chance that by saying that daughter has been declared disabled, the courts will move quicker on this. Hard to say fir certain.

She is a legal expert on evictions. Rarely needs an attorney. But if she does, can get one on a moment’s notice.

I have some leads on a good caregiver agency and a potential social worker.

I’m not feeling well today at all…which I suppose with my health issues is somewhat expected.

I will re read these posts. Thank you VERY very much.

 

[RN0441]

Saying a prayer for you Nomad.

 

[Crayola13]

The eviction law is similar to the privileges homeless people have been allowed in our city. Believe it or not, they are allowed to sleep in your car unless it’s on private property. They won’t be charged with burglary for breaking into your car unless they steal anything. They’re allowed to use your car for sleeping only. They cannot drive it. This is very messed up.

 

[Nomad]

Dear Lord…squatters had friends over with their vehicle. Fir knows what is going on in there. And they might already be stealing.

Don’t let this happen to you.