Start of the next round

[AnnieO]

k - lots of hugs. I understand. Onyxx does sneak cigarettes too... What can I do? Besides tell her not to.

I won't provide them for her, though. She's already shoplifting - I have no actual proof, besides a lot of expensive things husband and I did not buy showing up. Usually it's passed off as "so-and-so gave it to me"... Um. Too much.

Glad you called the PO. It's clear that difficult child sees "house arrest" as another failure for the system to care.

 

[helpme]

Why didn't you file a police report on that homemade bong.
I bet the Police would have confirmed it for you.

 

[klmno]

I agree- he's hell bent on breaking the rules and that's why I don't think it matters what the rules are- changing them to "meet" his wants or motivate him only seems to feed into his belief that he can do whatever he wants when he gets like this. Our MST guy had already been lead to believe that my parenting was the problem before he got involved a couple of years ago and that I could not be trusted so that lead to our friction and my lack of faith in his approach working- just like the therapist in Department of Juvenile Justice- if they already believe that the problem was that I'm a psycho or defiant or too strict on difficult child they can't see the forest for the trees. It seems simpler every day to me- my bro convinced the GAL of this and it got spread around and that's why the previous PO and others kept approaching things that way and completely ignoring my input. In the meantime, difficult child has thrown in the towel on a decent life and soaked this avenue for everything it's worth. So now I'm left with zero faith in the system and mad as heck at them over there and they see this attitude as being the cause of the problem instead of the result of their stupid decisions.

You know when I was exploring the mental health avenue for difficult child, some claimed I was giving difficult child an excuse and denying his behavior problems and they didn't want to go that route. But then when he was not in mental health treatment upon leaving Department of Juvenile Justice ( as far as a psychiatrist and diagnosis and treatment plan), they tried to act like I was not providing necessary treatment for him but that didn't last 2 days because it was Department of Juvenile Justice that took him off and I had only ask the psychiatrist there to review difficult child's needs and couldn't have legally told them what to do even if I'd tried so they can't pin that on me. And they order stuff but just like before, we can't maintain stability long enough for these things to even start.

But you think it would cross anyone mind over there that this kid should have gone to a psychiatric/therapuetic oriented Residential Treatment Center (RTC)?? No way. They say it must be my fault because he keeps reoffending- but they can't understand that I'm angry because I think it's their system that failed? They have been the ones making decisions regarding difficult child for several years- they should look at those decisions instead of me if they want to find out why this hasn't worked.

 

[klmno]

They just called me from school- the resource officer has difficult child there in hand cuffs- they had found him smoking cigs behind a store near the school. I told them to take him straight to detention- but of course, I don't have that authority so they are going to try to reach the PO who does. I told them that he might be out today and if they can't reach him or get difficult child in detention to call me and I'd come and get him but they ALL need to be aware that difficult child is bigger than me and I cannot physically restrain him so there is only so much I can do. I of course, will be ripped to shreads in court because of this because somehow they will come up with some way to makee it my fault that difficult child chose this avenue.

 

[SRL]

I'm sorry, klmno.

 

[DammitJanet]

I think its his fault he is offending, reoffending or whatever you want to call it. He knows perfectly well what he is doing. He has conduct disorder, no doubt about it. He meets pretty much all the criteria. Until and unless he wants to change, there is little anyone can do to make him. The closest thing that has been shown to help is this MST but you dont want to work with them. Other than that, I think you just have to wait for him to reach his bottom and see if he ever wants to change.

 

[klmno]

I don't think any type of therapy will work if difficult child is hell bent on not trying to do the right thing and/or the therapist has preconceived notions that difficult child is the victim in this scenario.

 

[CrazyinVA]

He's clearly going to blow every "chance" they give him. I'm glad the resource officer has him, he will find a way to contact the PO or his supervisor, I am sure. Hang in there, k.

 

[klmno]

Thank you. Going back to the MST- it isn't like it's an ongoing, floating option or court order at this point in time. I don't think any effort would work right now but when difficult child is trying, normal typical rewards and consequences seem to work just fine. Still, I really do not buy into the MST concept for a difficult child like my son. I think it can be very useful in some situations but I simply have no faith that if difficult child had signed a contract yesterday and I'd coopked something he liked better for dinner last night, he wouldn't have done this. And yes, I have a problem with the stance that if I feel I have a valid concern about a specific court order so I question it or linger on it I am jumped on like flies on *stuff* but with difficult child, it should be a message of "oh, honey, I'll change ABC- now will you please agree not to break the law anymore and sign this paper saying you mean it" for a kid his age with no diagnosis in place- as far as a diagnosis that would inhibit his ability to understand right from wrong or be able to comply with it. There was nothing else that came up after several meetings with the MST guy or dss or anyone else- there were no suggestions that I needed to provide better structure or change something in the homelife, etc.

Originally though- I didn't want to go the MST route simply because of difficult child's diagnosis and recommended treatment at the time which was 1) inconsistent with MST and 2) with MST you are not allowed to continue with another treatment plan as long as you are on MST. Also though, the guy did mislead himself and treated me like dirt but now it's clearer that I wasn't paranoid about this- this stuff got spread around and there was a label on me before I'd even meet a person over there. And I most definitely can see that people are assuming those things are true instead of looking at facts and forming their own objective opinion on the facts they see and that would influence the way the MST guy handled things with us.

 

[klmno]

I told the PO after court last week- you all put him Department of Juvenile Justice for over a year and we completely lost our bond and he formed more of an identification with other kids in Department of Juvenile Justice. He got out and had no respect for PO's rules or mine (let's not forget- it's not just me he's being defiant with) and went wild because he no lionger has a guard standing over him and no longer identifies with me or PO as an authority figure that he's going to respect. So then you lock him up for 3 weeks and now you are expecting a different person?

My lack of faith isn't defiance- it is trying not to be in denial and trying to see that it is insane when one continues down a path repetitavely expecting a different result.

Yes, I still believe that the therapeutic based Residential Treatment Center (RTC) would have been a better choice for difficult child than Department of Juvenile Justice if they had followed the recommendations of the psychiatrists in place at that time. But it doesn't make any difference now- that option is gone for good.

They only have two options- dss with my bro or back to Department of Juvenile Justice. Obviously, the def attny will advocate for dss and since he mislead me and ended up basicly handpicking the current GAL, I would almost guarantee that this GAL will advocate for dss, too. DSS has no choice but to send difficult child to my bro if he's turned over to them.

Of course we have that law here where judge's, attny's, PO's, and dss cannot be held legally accountable for making the wrong choice that leads a kid to be harmed. Unlike me- if I choose to send my son somewhere where he was at risk of being molested or abused in some fashion I would be thrown in jail in a heartbeat. They can advocate for it and make that choice- knowing that risk is there and not be held accountable if it turns out to be the worst.

And if they think the stress from their threats and accusations and verbal bashing of me, their requirements for me to pay for it all yet be there for all these things and keep difficult child supervised all the time, while knowing these are difficult child's only two options while he continues to go around every requirement he can is leading me to be the best parent I can be - they are sadly mistaken.

 

[DammitJanet]

Either your MST guy is a moron or somewhere along the lines you have been misinformed about what MST really is or how it is supposed to work. This cooking dinner thing I have no idea where it would come from.

 

[klmno]

Oh- I know what MST is advertised to be in concept- but in our reality, it was a short list of goals for difficult child (that he quit breaking the law) and difficult child's requests from me (that I cook meals he liked more, more often) and that becomes the behavior contract. There were things though that bugged me- liike MST guy saying one thing then doing another or saying something opposite behind my back.

Anyway- it doesn't matter now. The school called and I had to go get difficult child. But before I left to get him the PO called- he can't get paperwork in to have difficult child put in detention today. He isn't even sure his super will allow difficult child to go to detention before court over this. He's going to check and maybe talk to the judge. He tried to reassure me about the dss issues and so forth but I am not holding my breath that it will turn out ok anyway.

 

[susiestar]

The whole situation is upside down and bass-ackwards. There is no logic in it, and there is NEVER going to be a way to approach this system logically. They HAVE harmed your son, but he has also harmed himself. He could have been making different choices all along the way.

This is just a hunch, but I think there is a LOT more behind the court's attitude than "just" GAL and PO bad-mouthing you. I honestly think your difficult child saw them bad mouth you and saw himself get away with a LOT more because what they said. He is a smart and manipulative kid. I think difficult child told some HUGE lies about you, first to GAL and PO, then to everyone else he has dealt with. INCLUDING the his lawyer. I think that his lies are a large part of what is behind the court's attitude.

The system has NO common sense or logic. They will cling to a lie that lets them not invest resources before they will believe anything that would lead to a placement or therapy that cost money to provide. It is being penny-wise and pound foolish. Teaching a teen to LIKE juvie and really, what wasn't to like? He tried pot in there, hung out with kids who were not good influences, had NO adult looking at him with disappointment on a daily basis, and got to hear a LOT of other idiot kids say that they can do exactly what he wants to do after they are released. He didn't have to see how hurt you are, how much his awful choices have cost YOU and him, how he has bankrupted you, etc...

THEY taught him to LIKE juvie. Now he seems to want that to be his life. I hope and pray that something, somewhere gets through to him. I would not feel real comfortable with him in the house, esp as I strongly believe he heard the lies and not only didn't tell anyone that they were lies, he built on them and kept them alive. The court officials don't know their head from the latrine and they have bought his lies hook, line, and sinker.

At least he is big enough and likely strong enough to fight your bro off if he ends up there.

K, from here on out, whatever happens is on him. His choices, his lies,etc... I don't have advice or ideas cause I am sure any i come up with won't work. But I AM sorry it has come to this.

Hugs.

 

[klmno]

I'm thinking along the same lines as thaat- all the way around. I'm sure I am depressed right now but I also know that this wasn't the cause- it is the result. Like I told the sd and PO today- even though I am not perfect and I acknowledge that- I KNOW I didn't do anything to difficult child that justifies him not being able to make it thru 2 days of school without skipping out. But then- I knew I wasn't imperfect enough or had done enough to justify him pulling a knife on me last year, too. But that is the def attny's ONLY defense. Unfortunately, that defense will more than likely lead difficult child to an abuser's hands. That is what I am trying to accept and emotionally handle now. Still, covering this up for difficult child didn't seem to be the answer. I keep coming back to them having to have full control- ok then they have got it- but then why don't they have to take responsibility for those decisions and the outcome the same as a parent would if they made a stupid decision and put the kid in the hands of someone who WILL cover for difficult child but WILL also allow molestation to occur because the person doesn't even view it as molestation? No matter what difficult child has done- he doesn't deserve that. And just because I think he needs consequences doesn't mean I'm trying to throw him away. I swear- my therapy said black and white thinking was a horrible thing but it appears to me that the people in the system are the worst B & W thinkers I have ever seen. And they lie. So for anyone out there wth a kid getting caught up in the system- I am not kidding- beware- there are people in there that do lie.
PO called back this afternoon after I picked difficult child up- I spoke with him then put difficult child on the phone- I heard difficult child tell PO that he it was all just depressing. OK- well I'm not saying difficult child might not be depressed too. But if I went over there and said the problem is that difficult child and I are depressed they would laugh in my face. I don't think difficult child has accused me of actual abuse because cps has never been involved- dss has but it was a different dept than cps. And that dss involvement was just to see if there was any family issue that might be contributing to the problem- you know- someeething we would want to know if it was the case or if we refused to care than the kid could be removed. So I'm not sure- I previously asked difficult child if he was so miserable at home that he couldn't stand it and he said no- he wants to live here- he just wants it on his terms. His terms are that he does what he wants and I cover for him. I won't do that- my bro will but it will be at a price that difficult child does not uunderstand at this point and would be abusive. The people in the courts apparently have a lot of doubt about that- but I am telling the truth. I don't doubt though that difficult child has played into some opportunity to blame me- I feel sure that he has. It's no wonder. The extended family blamed me for everything in front of difficult child years ago and the past 4 years, difficult child has heard people in court blame me. Again- it's not that I think I'm perfect or that I don't blame myself for things or are unwilling to change anything- I'm just saying I don't think I'm so imperfect that it has justified all he's doing and that teaching him to blame me instead of take responsibility is contributing to the problem.

I definitely agree that the people in the system will continue down a path of least resistance- funding wise- before acknowledging and addressin a problem that costs them something. I have seen that time and time again.

Regarding the label on me- I think my bro's lawyer from the custody case or my bro himself had written letters that ended up in difficult child's file that discredited me. I think the GAL also probably has her assessment- which would just be a recount of what these people said- in difficult child;'s file. On top of that- there was friction betweene the probation officer and I and I know for a fact she wrote a lett er to be put in difficult child's file- because she submitted a letter instead of appearing in court. I could tell by a comment by the previous judge that the PO had tried to burn me- she had to cover her rear somehow because she knew difficult child had esacalated and been in a phjosp about 5 times and pulled a knife on me before and she had done NOTHING and wouldn't even return a call to the psychiatric hospital. So as stupid as it appears to those in the know- if an unknowing person picked up a file and saw a derogatory letter from a family member, a GAL, and a PO- the conclusion would be made. But yes, I think difficult child is smart enough to see an opportunity thru this.

 

[Marcie Mac]

My memory is going somewhere in a handbasket, but for a kid that had numerous diagnosis's, one of them I remember was BiPolar (BP) but can't remember the others because you have long since removed them numerous psychiatric hospitalizations this is all just sad. I realize juvy said nothing was wrong with him and disregarded everything that his previous therapist said, but the obsessiveness, compulsive behavior, lack of impulse control -something is just not right. Just because the juvy system said something doesn't make it factual, and once again, its comming from a punitive system.

Is he old enough to figure out right from wrong, of course he is. Can he control it - its obvious sometimes he can, and other times has totally his mind. He is well on his way to being doomed to a revolving door of the prison system - forever on probation which he is going to break time and time again, over and over because no one really knows what is going on in his head-deemed a psychopath because, really, that is what conduct disorder is, the Ted Bundy, Jeffrey Dahlmer group, before any definitive diagnosis is made, and not by the uneducated docs in the prison system. And in three or 4 years time, when he hits legal age, it is all over as to what help he can get.

Its just like watching a train wreck in slow motion

Marcie

 

[klmno]

And I have told them that- I feel like I am watching them destroy my son in front of me. I have told the PO this doesn't seem normal to me- even for a kid who doesn't ccare about getting into trouble. He says it doesn't seem normal to him either but he isn't a psychiatric. OK- I don't know what to do- when there were several diagnosis's from various places - all mood disorder rande but not all agreeing- the legal system threw it out like I was making an excuse or wouldn't comply or whatever. They wan t "their" people determining difficult child's diagnosis and that is based SOLELY on his court record and input from PO- which I think is stupid but I have no control over.

by the way- I hate my family. If they had stayed out of this and quit trying to make me the identifeid client, the focus would have stayed on what could have helped difficult child most. And I dont buy for one second that they did it to try to help- where were they then??

 

[Marcie Mac]

Any mood disorder - even not otherwise specified - untreated - is going to mess up your life - when they are small, its messing up in school, and whey they are older, its messing up and being sent to juvy and getting on the hampster wheel.

Before the system gets their hands on him again, I would haul his behind off to a psychiatric doctor - one of your choosing. . Yeah, I know they have "custody" of him, but you are his mother, but there is NO law that says you cannot get him treated medically and have to wait for their ok - they wouldn't say anything if he had something broken, an arm, a leg.

I think at this point you should spend less time ruminating on the wrongness of it all, and why it turned out the way it did, and more time on thinking how and what am I able to do now. Just do it, and tell the PO later, cause if you wait till you get some kind of permission you are wasting valuable time you really don't have.

Marcie

 

[MyFriendKita]

I totally agree with Marcie Mac. My son was one of those who didn't seem to care about getting into trouble, and I firmly believe that getting him treated is the reason he finally got out of the juvenile system. We got treatment on our own outside the juvenile system, but no one in that system had any problem with what we were doing. They didn't help us with it, but they didn't object to it, either.

 

[klmno]

been there done that- thaat's what I did 2-3 years ago. I was waiting on the appointment for the MDE led by our state expert psychiatrist when the GAL told the judge difficult child should have MST. After the evaluation came in - and yes difficult child was on medications- the probation officer at that time ordered me not to follow those recommendations and only comply with MST. I didn't think she had authority to order that either and used the same arguments you have stated. I still had to request a hearing with the judge to have that order changed and get permission to follow recs of psychiatrist. I have not been exagerating when I say tthese people take over every decision. Now maybe the probation officer wouldn't have ordered me to ignore those recs in the first place if they hadn't already been convinced by my bro that I was not credible, but still- after the judge changed the court order, essentially over-riding the PO- I had difficult child on medications per his psychiatrist until Department of Juvenile Justice took him off. I have to say- I am not so sure they were helping. They definitely didn't solve anything. Now a few weeks ago when difficult child was sent to detention, they had their own people evaluation difficult child. Not a psychiatrist and nowhere close to a thorough evaluation but she determioned it was nothing but CD. They would have one fit if I took difficult child somewhere else and came up with something contradictory to that. Oh- and current PO told this evaluator what results he wanted to see on the evaluation- PO told me himself. And this was why I was concerned about letting them evaluation me the way they had originally planned- the outcome is just too controlled by what courts people already have in their minds. Remember- the pprevious PO had the court's mental health person refuse to sign the psychiatrist's order for ggfg to go to Residential Treatment Center (RTC) because the PO "didn't think he needed it and if she had thought he needed it, she would have already ordered it".

Now, due to the way they have handled things, I no longer have a stable job with benefits and medicaid dropped difficult child when he was turned over to Department of Juvenile Justice. Things haven't lit long enough for me to start pursuing some path of where to go from here as far as income, insurance, etc. difficult child gets back in their hands too soon for me to get him to a psychiatrist anyway.

I did tell PO that I don''t think difficult child is acting normally- even for a kid who gets into trouble. PO is starting to come around to that, I think, but he says it doesn't matter until difficult child gets to a point where he's trying. I understand the point that difficult child might not get to that point without mental health treatment however as I said- they most definitely have made it clear that they will be the ones to determine that. And now they are taking control of my mental health. Sigh.

This whole approach of them tieing my hands with decisions because they don't trust me to make them but then not addressing things adequately themselves is what leads me to snap off at them and say things that digs myself in deeper with them.

 

[Marcie Mac]

K, I feel for you but, honestly, you cannot keep going back in time - you gotta move forward. You cannot change aything that went down, and went down badly - there is more than enough blame of the system in your case, but you have to look at it as water over the bridge lest you be further paralized from any action.

"They would have one fit if I took difficult child somewhere else and came up with something contradicatory" And I can only come back with "So what?" Probation only cares about the following of probation orders. Unless there is an order in there that says specifically "Offenders mother is forbidden to seek any mental health counceling" (and if there is such an order, a call to the ACLU should be made), pick up the phone, call psychiatrists offices, explain to them you need to make an emergency appointment and you need a sliding scale.

I know you like an orderly fashion of things, you wanna know what is going to happen and why and when and everything lined up in a row however sometimes you just gotta wing it, do it.

Marcie