Start of the next round

[klmno]

I see where you are coming from, Marcie, but this isn't how they are looking at things. They (some) evidently believe that I looked to private providers to try to get a diagnosis for difficult child when it was just for purposes of getting him off or avoiding courts efforts-o r maybe because I am psychologocially unable to accept that difficult child really has no psychiatric diagnosis. See my family told them I was psychiatric unfit and trying to put it off on difficult child. This stuff does matter even though you think I'm dredging up the past- this is still being discussed by these people- and that is why there is a GAL on board again, in part. They KNOW I have sought out mental health treatment for difficult child- long ago and continuously since then. When he came oout of Department of Juvenile Justice with no diagnosis and removed from medications, it put more validity on the theory that maybe all the psychiatric issues really were just mine. The first thing the def attny did when difficult child was put in detention was to order a mental health evaluation on him and start looking into 1) had I been told or lead to believe thatt difficult child should be on medications and I was refusing- (that was verified and they learned that this was NOT the case), 2) was the issue my mental health- they are waiting on my evaluation to occur and yes, I took the first available appointment but it's next week, 3) review difficult child's mental health again. Their own evaluator said all she saw was CD.

When I try to remind people that coincidentally or not, difficult child has had issues and arrests every late winter/early spring, then goes 9 mos without severe issues- they all roll their eyes at me. Beyong me why if they thin I'm lieing they won't look at his file and see dates of each arrest he's ever had.

All I responded to her, def attny, and everyone else is that IF it is determined my son has a diagnosis rerquiring medications or treatment, I will most certainly get it for him as I always have. But I am not a psychiatrist, it should be reviewed by a psychiatrist, there had been uncertainty about it in the past so that is why I took difficult child to the best psychiatrists I could find in the state and had him evaluation'd and tried to push for and advocate for that. However, the latest evaluation was by the psychiatrist in Department of Juvenile Justice and he said he did not feel difficult child has BiPolar (BP) and did not give another diagnosis. PO told me yesterday that this continued behavior in difficult child is making things more obvious to others in their system. They need to review and decide if 1) they think this is normal for difficult child, 2) review if its something I'm doing to cause it, 3) why their own mental health people have said there is nothing but CD there. When it starts being obvious to the attny's and judge that this isn't normal even for CD, and I'm not certifiable, or so strict that I am driving difficult child to it, or against working on myself, and I wasn't making this stuff up just to put a diagnosis on difficult child that should really be on me- then maybe we can really get somewhere. And as they are now questioning why there MH people and Department of Juvenile Justice people say there's nothing but they are starting to see insane choices from difficult child- I mean completely irrational even for a kid with CD- then maybe it might cross someone's mind that is why I kept going out of their system to get help from other MH people. Anyway- obviously I didn't want it to pan out this way because I hoped difficult child would do well. But since it has, it appears to be making their eyes a lot more open to what they are really dealing with. And yesterday- the sd admin and resource officer told PO directly that they had to chase difficult child, havee two men hold him down, and handcuff him to get him back to school. I reminded PO that when things are like that at home, I am not physically able to restrain or overcome difficult child like that and I am not legally allowed to handcuff him to something so when people are wondering why I can't do a better job making my son comply, I hope they remember what these two men reported.

I should also point out that for a very long time, I was the only person reporting uncontrollable behavior in difficult child and since they saw none of that in Department of Juvenile Justice even after removing difficult child's medications, then I start reporting it again shortly after difficult child's return home, it probably did look questionable. Unfortunately, it apparently will take them hearing it from others that I have not sought out privately or seeing it first hand themselves. But now it will depend a lot on how much the PO relays to others and what the GAL hears from whoever he talks to at school. Oh- and none of them have been to the house since difficult child put so many holes in it 18mos ago so after they get finnished with another review of all these things it might lead to some clarification. That's my best hope at this point. I'm being agreeable and letting them sort thru it all without doing anything at all outside of their approach because I don't want it taken as not supporting their efforts again.

I'll have to say more about this tomorrow. Still, we had already tried a ton of different medications and it didn't prevent crisis in the past. So maybe they are right- maybe it is just CD or maybe it's something else but even if I could get him on a medication today, it wouldn't solve the immediate problem.

 

[klmno]

I just found burn marks on difficult child- he told me it was no big deal- I called crisis center and said I didn't do them but I didn't know what to do. She spoke with difficult child- he told her that it was a prank yesterday. So she told me that I could get medical treatment but they couldn't do anything because it appeared to be his own bad choice. I would say then that apprently difficult child is already in their system as CD only. But I have trouble seeing how he could have had opportunity to let a friend put burn marks on him yesteraday as a prank as he suggest on the other hand, they are there in the shape of a sniley face. I specifically asked this lady if this seemed normal to her for a boy his age- she told me that it was a result of his poor actions and choices.

 

[CrazyinVA]

Crisis isn't likely to have any access to a diagnosis in the system. What they do is assess whether someone is an immediate threat to themselves or others, and these types of things aren't considered such as far as my experience. Youngest was a cutter for awhile, and also tattooed her ankle with a boy's initials once.. none were considered crisis situations, just symptoms of the bigger issues (bipolar, in her case). The only time crisis intervened was when she was actively suicidal, out of control and threatening to hurt herself or me.

 

[DammitJanet]

Actually burning, cutting or scratching such things can be a fairly normal thing our kids go through. Cory burned himself...sort of amateur branded himself with hot metal on his arm. He did some fake tattoos that thankfully didnt take. I have the word scratched into my arm that says "I hate" that I cut with broken items I found around the house. Thankfully my skin is getting old and thin so if you really dont know what it says you cant read it.

 

[klmno]

OK - so it wawsn't a tod issue. Still, since he's going to detention tomorrow I have still rep-orted it before hand.

 

[JJJ]

Always best to report things like that

(((HUGS)))

 

[susiestar]

A very good idea for you to report any things like this that you know about. Also take photographs of it so that you have proof of when it happened. If at all possible have the front page of the newspaper in the photo. My dad has done some documentation of things for court cases and having the newspaper is a way to prove the date that it happened. It can be extremely hard to see the date of the paper so having the headline and date showing gives an easier way to verify the date. If it is on a limb, just arrange his arm on top of the newspaper on a table. Take several photos (with and without flash if your camera has that option) from a couple of different angles.

Sadly this is just one more way that boys are a different species. Cutting/self injury for emotional issues is one thing. both sexes do that. For some reason it is not uncommon for boys todo stupid things to hurt themselves to see who can take the most pain. It is another way they compete to establish dominance. My bro and cousin (between us in age, raised with us) would compete to see who would bleed the most. I can remember vividly telling them that I bet I would bleed more if I jumped off the roof onto the patio. The patio was made of flagstone and any fall made you bleed. I told them we would do it after my nap, cause Mom insisted I had to go take a nap. (I was about 3 or 4.)

The only thing the boys liked more than the who could bleed most game was to make me feel left out or like they got one over on me. They got into a LOT of trouble for being on the roof, for jumping off of it, etc.... It was one of the few times my bro told my parents I did something where they didn't automatically believe me. Lying to say I made them do it got them in more trouble, which was part of my plan. They had been picking on me a lot at that point because I was "a baby".

They gloated for years about how much they bled over this or that, or who had the most scars. That Y chromosome does some strange things, in my opinion.

The documentation is for YOUR protection. NOT so much difficult children. The court is looking at you, and of course they will weigh any sign of abuse heavily. So make sure you document this with photos and that you do NOT let the "system" know you have documented it unless/until a lawyer who is on YOUR side tells you that it is time to let the judge have the info. Otherwise the court may decide that the act of documenting his injuries is a symptom of paranoia. (We all KNOW it is not paranoia, it is knowing the system is untrustworthy and stupid and targeting YOU instead of difficult child.) Just take the photos to protect yourself. Put them in a file with a write up of what happened and go on about stuff.

I am sorry he is showing so many signs of instability and the courts look at you like you are doing something wrong when you try to get psychiatric help for him.

[[[[[Hugs]]]]]

 

[klmno]

I knew it wasn't something that required an acute psychiatric hospital stay- but I thought it was good to report it to someone and to ask a MH prof if they thought it was normal or a psychiatric issue. She didn't think it was a psychiatric issue. I can only hope that clouded judgements due to opinions of me haven't spread to the mental health dept already but since they share a lot of info and difficult child is in the computer system with hx, who knows. Anyway, I wasn't worried so much that someone would think I did this to difficult child but more that it was another incident where I'm d***ed if I tell someone (some will think I made too much of an issue out of nothing) and da**ed if I don't (not doing anything when I should) so I called to disucuss it- no place else would have been available last night except police or cps and the ER and it didn't warrant those places. But this gets it documented so if anyone ever does another MH evaluation on difficult child they can look at this is another sign of instability or another sign that he has CD only- however they determine.

I was aware about cutting in kids but I didn't know they had also started burning themselves. Or maybe this has been a common thing with kids all along too and I just never knew anyone who did it wheen I was a teen.

 

[klmno]

Well this phase is over. The PO sent police this morning to get difficult child and take him to detention. They have had three police cars in front of the house with difficult child in handcuffs out there waiting for something for about 30 mins. I this is Holland I want to go home.

 

[Shari]

Hugs. K.

Please KNOW, difficult child has made these choices. This is his cross to bear, not yours. you've done all you can.

 

[klmno]

Thanks, Shari. It just feels like I'm being kicked while I'm already feeling beaten and blaming myself when they sit in court and blame me - how can I better teach my son to be responsible when the higher ups in the system are sitting there in front of him saying it's my fault and there's something psychiatric wrrong with me for not seeing it? And if there was something specific they were seeing me do that I should change, why not just tell me what that is? Wouldn't that be more constructive and effective? Then if I refused to change it, fine, I can see that warranting being chastised but if they have some answer that I don't, why aren't they telling me what that is?

Anyway...they just called from detention to tell me difficult child had been processed in, he had burn marks on both arms but no where else. He is sick with a cold. Then difficult child got to talk on the phone for a min and all he wanted to know was why I didn't tell him they were going to come and get him and was I coming to the next visitation.

 

[DammitJanet]

At this point I would get my nice little psychiatric evaluation, let difficult child languish there in detention for awhile and just concentrate on your work. He will be fine. There have been times when Cory was in jail that I plain refused to go see him or talk to him. He had ticked me off so I removed myself from the equation. Did him good I think.

 

[Shari]

I understand. Nothing like kicking you while you're down.
***
My response to why I didn't tell him would be because he should have known. You do A, you get B. You were told up front. You did A. You should have known B was coming.
***
And am I coming to see him? No. That was what living at home was for.

 

[klmno]

Wow- those are good responses- I wish I'd thought of them when he was on the phone.

Yes, I am going to do the psychiatric evaluation next week.

 

[AnnieO]

{{{{{HUGS}}}}

I think you're doing the right thing... And k? If THEY decide there is something wrong with YOU, and they remove difficult child... Please know that you did your best. They can label you... But if they do... Mental illness of any kind isn't a crime. So they label you. THEN what do they do when difficult child continues?

...And you can then think to yourself, "I told you so."

Labels can be peeled off. I think you're one of the strongest people I know.

 

[CrazyinVA]

Just letting you know I'm thinking about you. Hang in there.

 

[klmno]

It's not having a diagnosis I was concerned about, Step- I've had them for depression (situational or intermittent not an ongoing constant thing) and anxiety (I am high anxiety and that is constant) and possibly PTSD. If they come up with the same- no problem. Except I have no money to address this to the full degree at the moment and that court ordered pressure will only make those issues worse. Still, I'll try. But if the evaluation'er determines that I'm handling things sufficiently that might suffice without any ordered treatment.

on the other hand, if he comes up with something out from left field- like he thinks I psychological abuse my child- and I;'m sitting there saying no I don't yell in his face or cuss him or make him feel unloved and they say well, they think I do- I have no idea what to do about that. I would try to comply if they order something in order to keep custody, which is probably what would be the position from them at that point, but now that a real therapist is going to be giving me a clinical interview first, then decide about any testing, I am a LOT less concerned about a mis-diagnosis. And they aren't doing much therapy for adults at our local mental health dept anymore so it is unlikely I'd end up having to get any there, which had been a concern too. I just don't have much faith in them- I think they let the legal people determine too much about what MH treatment should get- for instance the legal people tell them what diagnosis to treat a person for or over-ride a therapist's evaluation if they don't agree with it and it becomes the tail wagging the dog, in my humble opinion.

Oh- and they will probably require me to sign full release forms from previous tdocs and the only concern there is the loss of confidentiality because then the courts people all end up knowing very personal info and it gets documented in difficult child's file because I am his parent and custodial parent, but then if custody ever changes whoever the new guardian is has access to that info. Or they find it out in the custody hearings even if they don't get custody and difficult child remains with me. So again, that just adds to me big desire to have this come out accurate. Even if they find something else that I'm not aware of but that I think could be accuarte, I'm fine with that so I could address it appropriately. It was just a bizarre wierd diagnosis I was afraid of because I know how they work over there and the GAL had been convinced that I MUST have something- like being delusional or hallucinate or see my kid irrrationally.If the evaluation'er is objective and not going into this with preconceived ideas, I think it will be ok. If he has preconceived ideas and I can go to a private provider, at least there is more hope now that a therapist would ultimately see that I'm really not that way and let them know that he/she is not seeing that in me.

 

[klmno]

I do think though that if they suggest a medication for an anxiety then I get a court order to take it that it's going too far unless I am dealing with anxiety in a way that contributes to difficult child's difficulties or harming him in some way. If I'm dealing with it in other ways therapuetic methods, for instance) that should suffice. Besides, it's not like medications will really take it all away. It runs in my family and I have familial tremors. medications can help but not completely make it stop. I'm not being self-destructive or whatever so I just think they can sometimes take these things too far.

I still think it's odd though that when they order a mental health evaluation on a kid in detention, they only have someone from the detention center (Licensed Clinical Social Worker (LCSW)) talk to the kid a few mins, read the court record, and talk to the parent and PO, ignore any documentation that comes straight from a psychiatrist to them with a diagnosis and recommendations, and make a determination. That's how it comes out bbeing more what the court wants to see as a diagnosis and treatment. What they do with the parent is either get an MMPI or require all previous mental health records, 90 min clinical interview, etc.

 

[AnnieO]

Oh, depression, anxiety and PTSD are definitely not what I was thinking - more of the left-field stuff like delusional, etc. 'Cause I don't think so. Then again, I'm not a doctor anyway. I mean, I've got a history of depression that gets handled with increasingly destructive behavior - at one point drinking (no husband/kids then thank Heavens) quite a lot (which is why I don't do it much now - afraid to!), but mostly extremely unhealthy relationships. As long as I'm either on my medications or, like now, in a stable, decent relationship, I'm good. Or at least I think I am!

 

[klmno]

Well, that's kind of what I'm saying. Once I had my intensive therapy (age 21-22), my drug usage, relationships with abusive men, acting out, all stopped. I went to college and became a drug-free, productive member of society who has tried to prevent passing down as much dysfunction from my family to difficult child. That's why I don't think my issues have caused this in difficult child. But there are some who think I will forever be psychiatric faulty because of my past and require constant, ongoing MH treatment. Mainly, my family and previous GAL. To me, and based on my previous therapist, that way of thinking is unhealthy for a trauma survivor. It was bad enough that I had to be raised by a mother who had me classified as psychiatric faulty forever because of what her own bro did and my bro viewed me that way, but when they got the courts people treating me that way- well, my perspective is that this is contributing to the problem and a reflection of a society that still doesn't get it.

However, since they have easily already verified that I don't break the law, there's no indication of drug use or me having abusive men around difficult child, and the custody thing has been an issue, the maybe some think I was lying about all that and my psychiatric problem