oh yeah, donna, counting. my mom did that. i did it with wiz and at age 18 mos he would just count along iwth me. i said firmly 'one' and he would go 'two three four five six!' and be so super proud of himself. yes, at 18 mos he could count to thirty. he counted to 100 at 2 when we were in the car one day. AT five he went to 1000.
he also loathed seven and eight. would not under any circumstances say them when he counted. seven was bedtime and eight meant it was way past bedtime and he had to hurry to bed with just one story. usually we did two or three short books (where did the brown bear go, polar bear polar bear and a board book called animal babies, i can STILL recite most of these word for word and the other two had different must reads!), but if it was 8 we only did one. he did not tie the numbers to a clock or time, they just meant bedtime and bedtime was not a good thing in his book, lol. we had conferences with his daycare, kdg, and several relatives also were super worried until we explained it.
but my mom and dad? three was not at all something we wanted! EVER. But even my folks stopped counting when Wiz just counted with them. Tehy could never keep a straight face again, not even when they count at me, lol! if only i had known that as a kid, sigh....
wiz used to long for 12. from the time he was maybe 2 it was not enough to say that he could do somethign when he was older. he insisted on a number that would mean he was old enough to do it. So we said 'when you are 12'. boy was he thinking he was all that and more whne he turned 12. 13 was a real bummer because then it was a looooooooong time if we said he could do someething when he was 12. And we did at times. the look on his face right after he turned 13 and i said this was hilarious. he got into "i am past 12 so i can do it now because 13 is more than 12 and you can't stop me" koi. Then I explained that no, he could do those things when he is 12 - next time he is 12. not at any age older than 12.
he used to BEG his coaches to be number twelve on the soccer team. each coach asked me why, privately, and each coach 'accidentally' gave him another number, lol!! The moms who coached thought he was hilarious to even try that! It was really really funny! then he griped to one coach and she told him she ahd a discipline rule that if you got itno trouble you had to do something the number of times on your shirt, so she gave shirts out based on how much of a whiner/troublemaker you were. he had four and was thrilled at that because there was no one or two. he even commented that maybe her son should have had 3 or 4. She said no because he didn't like to listen to her. she did give Wiz the choice of trading for shirt 12, but he declined, lol. i have to say it did work for her though, the shirt thing.
i think part of the reason the look/voice/finger works is because they may not totally be sure what the consequence will be. they know that we are firm and won't hesitate to enforce a consequence, but they are not totally sure what the consequence for ignoring the voice is. my kids knew that i would totally remove all electronics, or make them listen to some music they hated, or esp clean something or send friends home or worse, give friends chores to do with my kids. but they are never sure exactly what, just that they will HATE it.
Step, when you use the voice or finger or snap, and o responds but j does not, reward o for responding and tell jett he gets consequence x for the infraction and y for not listening. y should be the worst of the 2.
i was a yeller for years. when i stopped the kids mostly stopped listening. I conditioned them to respond to yelling. Then i unconditioned them by never ever yelliing except for immediate safety things like 'stop' if they were about to run in front of a car. it took a few weeks, but it worked. there were also times when if the kids would only listen when i yelled, then i would yell everything. usually took a morning before school to haave them begging me to stop and by bedtime they were ready for me to whisper and to jump off a building if i whispered that from across a room. i yelled good morning, did you sleep well, put on your coat, time to go, how was school, etc.... At school I yelled have a great day, i love you, etc...
Then I started whispering when i was upset - the very day after the yelling. I would get their attention wtih a snap, and then would whisper, which meant they had to come to me or the consequence was dire. i didnt' just take a game or toy away, they also had to go clean something yucky. i had Wiz do the litterbox whch was husband's job, scrape out containers that were left in the fridge too long, scrub the tub and shower, etc....
with consistency and a week of carrying through and using some creatve consequences, i had kids who didn't need to be yelled at anymore. now it wasn't forever, there is always maintenance, but it worked.
This thread is fun! I have such funny, great memories of little Wiz just stymieing me at 18 mos with the counting. then of the parade of people who were soooooooooooo concerned because he could count to such high numbers but refused to say certain ones. Daycare age was a lot of fun with Wiz, had problems but he always had something going on in his mind. we could see the wheels turning up there and it was one of the most fun/enjoyable/enriching/rewarding times of parenthood for husband and I. Ditto for each of the other two.
Jess was as much fun wtih counting, but different. every kid in our complex, even much older, would respond f seh counted at them. One jr high kid just flat out stopped hitting another kid and cursing at him because my then 5yo daughter ran over the playground and said "one!" in that uber firm mom voice. it was sooooo cute and funny to hear it in her voice out of that little cute body with her long blonde hair in a ponytail on top of her head like Pebbles Flintstone! This kid was rough, really not a nice kid and he didn't live n our complex. he just stopped, mid swing. several adults had come running at the sound of the fight, incl me, so he left. but all of the adults praised jess and later she was the talk of the complex wth that one command!
I don't know why anyone sees furkids and humankids as different things. makes no sense to me. My mom's famous advce for new moms, newlyweds, and women becoming youn adults is the same: men, children and animals all need the same training methods. simple one word commands, consistency, variable rewards - get the reward every time at first, then taper to an irregular schedule, tons of praise and if you are not going to go MAKE no happen, then don't ever say it.
She is right, of course. a couple fo years ago several friends and i were laughing about this. when they al got maried they were sure my mom was a bit off her rocker because this. then they had kids, pets, husband's, etc... each of their wedding scrapbooks has this in it at the bridal shower section!