Update of difficult child and his PO- the short version

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by klmno, Aug 21, 2011.

  1. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    I had to meet with PO a couple of weeks ago due to the 90 day face-to-face requirement for parents of kids in Department of Juvenile Justice. PO gave me a spill about the importance of a unified front first. (by the way- this guy is as green as they get and has to "check with his super" over almost everything.) Then, PO proceeds to tell me he had gone to see and meet difficult child for the first time a couple of days earlier. He said while he was there, he "discussed my concerns about difficult child returning home" with difficult child and told him this was why he was going to recommend this transitional placement, then difficult child could get home with me ASAP. My jaw nearly dropped and I asked him if that was his idea of a unified front. He tried to backstep, over and over, telling me he just hadn't said it right, it wasn't in context, etc. I went off on him and told him if this was his idea of helping difficult child and I build on our relationship he needed to be getting some input from someone. Again, he tried to backstep it all and I said "you don't get this domestic violence thing, do you? Don't you get how much resentment that causes in a kid who's in Department of Juvenile Justice for committing an offense against a parent? Don't you get how much resentment that causes in me toward you (meaning PO)?" He said "well, now, I know you just have trust issues toward POs..." I interrupted and said this was WHY- they continuously betray my trust - if I am forthcoming with them, they immediately go to my son and repeat everything I say and all they care about is being the good guy to my son and making me out to be the bad guy".

    And that's when it all fell into place- the pattern from one PO to another was suddenly so obvious to me. They have all tried to be the good guy to my son, even when they order something the order is put to me to make me keep difficult child on house arrest or supervised or wwhatever. They all have had private conversations with difficult child as mine and his relationshp deteriorates. When their "plan" doesn't work, it's always been my ffault. Do I think this is against me personally? Oh, no. I think this is why we parents are catching the brunt of it all. It's the "method". And they ALL have lied at one time or another about one thing or another.

    So, the day after that, I got a letter from difficult child saying his PO had been there to see him and had told him that he (PO) would have let difficult child come home except for my concerns but if I changed my mind, it would be fine with PO if difficult child came straight home. I believe difficult child on this because, ironically enough, in the same letter difficult child tells me about how he's found religion now and has asked for a MH evaluation so he can get help.

    And today I went to visit difficult child. I didn't bring PO up at all. difficult child did though and said that PO told him that they normally don't like to send kids anywhere except home and that group homes were only for kids who had no place else to go and they were usually full but that they couoldn't make me take difficult child home against my will so PO had no choice but to recommend something else. difficult child can't go to a group home until he's 17 and he doesn't turn 17 until Jan. And then, Department of Juvenile Justice let difficult child out of lock even though he committed another major infraction while in lock, then put difficult child into his treatment program, which they aren't supposed to do until after the kid has behaved at least a few weeks. And what does this mean? It means that difficult child will probably have completed his treatment around Christmas, just shy of his 17th birthday, and be released then. Isn't it coincidental that all of aa sudden they have a plan to get this kid released just short of being 17?

    difficult child kept saying things like "when he comes home", so there I am yet again, saying "difficult child, I am not comfortable with you coming straight home" and him looking heartbroken.

    I'm going to write a lot out just to vent, then turn that into a real list of grievances, then go to an attny.
  2. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    There is really something screwy going on with your system, I will tell you that. I know Cory had the stupidest Juvenile PO around but that was the luck of the draw but I knew several others that were really good ones. But still, down here, the whole juvy system has this certain way it works with points and what all and I do not think things could happen the way it is going for you. Number one, ours are run in a different way for kids like yours. Yeah its a locked facility and its punishment but its more of a trade school type thing. There used to be a member from here who had a child placed in one. Worked wonders for him.

    I cannot believe they are doing this to you.
  3. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    DJ, the other part of this is that even though PO currently says he's going to reccomend this transitional place, I don't trust him to follow thru but even if he does, it has to get approved for funding from the bigger "pool" and that's doubtful but if that goes thru, then the people from that place interview difficult child to see if he's the "right fit", according to PO. So it's really adding up to me that PO is just using all this to manipulate me into taking difficult child straight home. And again, I'll be the one having to break difficult child's heart because I'm going to have to write him now and tell him AGAIN. I'm just going to get prepared to go to court again. And of course, dss will be used to punish me. And I'm almost certain, if difficult child goes to dss, he is officially released from Department of Juvenile Justice, meaning he won't have parole requirements at all. So basicly, the parole requirements are meant to be for the parent, not the juvenile offender. They provide no services anyway- if a parent says or brings proof that a kid needs MH treatment, for instance, they just order the parent to take the kid and sign a release so they can talk to the therapist and tell the therapist what to work on and verify that the parent is doing it, I swear! And I've given up on them understanding how all this enables a kid to do worse- shoot, you have to understand what "enable" means first.
  4. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    Sending caring and supportive thoughts and hugs your way. DDD
  5. AnnieO

    AnnieO Shooting from the Hip

    I swear, hon, you have the WORST luck POSSIBLE where POs are concerned.

    Now... The one O had, was pretty good - but she wasn't long term, we didn't have a lot of contact with her, and though the court's own rules state she could recommend an Residential Treatment Center (RTC), she said she couldn't. Still, when we suspected O was doing drugs, she happily tested O - and then tossed her little butt in juvie for a week when she came up dirty.

    I think the attorney is SMART.

  6. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    Step, this state uses Department of Juvenile Justice to train new people, intentionally or not. They don't pay much in Department of Juvenile Justice as rehabilitating juvenile offenders is not a priority with taxpayers in this state, even when the economy is good. Therefore, newbies in the correctional fileds (like POs) and attnys can easily get a job with Department of Juvenile Justice and of course, they are green in their field but think they know everything because they recently gradutaed from college. On top of that, this means they are more than likely too young to have kids and most aren't even married yet. They are more worried about getting their career underway than anything and comletely clueless when it comes to being an appropriate authority figure- both what's appropriate for a parent and what's going to get the best results from them as a PO. The PO said he'd asked difficult child what he was in lock (isolation) for and difficult child told him a lighter and said he just wanted it as a token of what he could get from their way of trading things in Department of Juvenile Justice. Not only did PO buy that story, he was completely clueless that this wasn't the only thing difficult child was in isolation for. He was also in there for assaulting a staff person in Department of Juvenile Justice.

    Last PO told difficult child he'd go back to Department of Juvenile Justice if he messed up at all. Then when difficult child messed up the first 2 times, both times PO went to him at school and talked to him about how "he was trying to do him a favor by letting it slide"- TWICE- and apparently honestly believing this would make difficult child appreciate him and think the PO was great and difficult child would stay out of trouble. In a difficult child's mind, that translates into "the guy isn't going to do anything he says so I'll just soak this for everything I can". Then, when it went on so long that the PO has NO choice but to recommend a recommitment to difficult child, difficult child had done so much he got a long term sentence, then they assigned another newbie PO so there is no "build" on epxerience- they change POs every time I turn around, ...as soon as we are used to get one trained. This PO doesn't know half of what difficult child has done, won't take time to read his file, and doesn't care to listen to anything I have to say. It's the same pat answer no matter what. They are all like that. When I asked why, I get "statistics show a kid who's been in Department of Juvenile Justice does best when sent back home" therefore, they get them back home ASAP. Of course, the lack of funding and liability/responsibility in this state makes that pretty easy.

    The way I left things with this PO at the last meeting and hearing all that- "I don't want to hear ONE word about witholding info from you in the future- the method you all have to complain about a parent witholding info then going straight to the kid and confronting them with it then sending the kid home to the parent who told it just doesn't work- it's exactly how we got here".

    I know you have your hands full with O, Step, but a rebellious teen smoking a j is one thing, a boy who's a lot bigger than his mom and only living with his mom and robbing her twice with a knife in his hand is another thing. And I honestly think that csu peoples' way of dealing with things made our relationship horrible and left the door open for these things to happen, and difficult child took it from there.
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2011
  7. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    K...I honestly think one of your problems is that you dont have anyone else in your home that your son is afraid to intimidate. He knows that he can overpower you and that you have no choice but to get the police involved and that they will do what they have always done which is to basically blame you. This gives him enormous power.
  8. AnnieO

    AnnieO Shooting from the Hip

    Oh, k. Just hugs.

    I do understand violence - the PO, though, didn't seem to care much. Grr.

    I'd love to find a way to get my hands on your difficult child's PO, though. Knock some sense into him. YOU do NOT deserve to be treated like that...
  9. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    Thanks, Ladies! I apologize for being cranky and using a bad choice of words. I guess I'm mad at the world right now but don't want to take it out on you.

    DJ, I difinitely agree that difficult child needed a strong man in the house and that would have greatly decreased problems, but I LOVE the police- they have always done a competent job, in my humble opinion. CSU people (attnys in Department of Juvenile Justice, POs, etc, including MST) are complete nitwits. I used the example with PO this last meeting when trying to explain to him why his actions weren't portraying a role of authority over difficult child: if a wife who's being beaten calls cops and cops come and tell the husband they are sorry for having to take him in but the wife is demanding it, then they hold him a few hours or even a day then let him go so he comes home, how exactly is he going to feel about her and what exactly is likely to happen as a result? Honestly, I can't believe that I have to try to explain to a Department of Juvenile Justice person why this approach seems to instigate more problems and solves zero. But I do. And every time one seems to get it, then the person gets switched to someone "new".

    THAT is what we are getting from everyone in csu and have been getting for over 5 years now, while my son deteroriates. I know my son has made his choices, but these people s' choices sure haven't helped difficult child and they have fought against any real help I tried to get while all the time handling things in this kind of assanign way. Of course this is one of those states where they can't be held liable if the kid kills me or someone else or himself. Nevertheless, I'm thinking the bar wioll get a piece of my mind too since I have nothing to lose at this point. WTH kind of GAL reefuses to advocate for something a state psychiatrist says a kid needs and instead advocates for Department of Juvenile Justice and still blames that on the only person the kid has in his life who's worth anything at all- not that I'm perfect, but I've always supported difficult child and been there for him and been in his corner?
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2011
  10. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    I am sorry that the people involved are still jerking you around. I think you need to expect this and take steps to protect yourself and your rights. This means get an attorney to fight for YOU. Not for difficult child's best interests, or for punishment for difficult child or help for difficult child, one to fight for YOU - your safety, your well being and your rights. in my opinion these people have violated YOU and YOUR RIGHTS and at a very bare minimum have been responsible for a huge wedge driven between you and difficult child. I think the entire court system for kids in your state needs to be strung up and hung in a mass execution and then people with some experience should be brought in to try to actually help the people involved. But that won't happen so really, ALL you can do right now is fight for your rights and hope that at some point down the road your difficult child will wise up and realize that you are not the enemy and that ynou are truly scared of him due to NO fault of your own and ONLY due to his actions.

    In no way should you be forced to take him home and it is incredibly abusive to you to have a PO even SUGGEST t. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE stop contact with the PO's and other CSU people. I know lawyers are expensive but you NEED one to step in and deal with all of this koi. Given ALL that difficult child has learned in juvie, and that he has been told over and over and over by PO's, attorneys, and other CSU people that the only reason he is in there and the only reason he "can't" come home is YOU - I am quite terrified for your safety if difficult child comes to live with you. He will be angry about something, anything, and it will ALL be taken out on you. Next time it won't be stealing $$ from you with a knife by cutting your clothes. He will get angry and be violent iwth you. He could probably kill you quite easily, given the strength adn temper he surely has and the lack of control and anger that is festering because so many people have fed him so many lies about your for so long.

    PLEASE stand your ground and do not let him come live iwth you again. It will be a recipe for lifelong incarceration in adult prison because all his rage over being locked up is aimed at your because the PO's tell them all sorts of bs and so has everyone int he system. That rage will boil over at YOU, possible while you are asleep, and you may not survive it. He sure won't keep his freedom intact, and there is NO WAY that at 17 they would charge him as a kid, esp given his juvie record.

    He is the type who will use every tiny bit of advantage to do what he wants and his sheer physical size give him a LOT of advantages if he is living in your home with you.

    I am so sorry. You have truly been hosed by this juvenile system, and in many ways so has difficult child. difficult child just has learned how to take even more advantage when given a tiny opportunity - and how to become a far better liar while incarcerated.
  11. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    That's pretty much how I'm thinking, Susie. This system has destroyed my son but I will say this- there are some kids I see in there for sexual offenses (BAD ones) who act like they are 5 yo and I feel even worse for them. And I sit in there and think "what if they turn this kid loose and send him back home to the sis or neighbor or whomever". We can blame the kid or bio-parent, but really, what idiot sets the situation up like this?

    Somebody needs to be taking this state to court instead of this state trying to take the fed gov to court, as they have. I'm just not positive or sure that there is a fed law forbidding this sort of koi, unfortunately.
  12. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    I was thinking about you last night and wondered what ever happened with Boy's Town? I had hoped that he would have that transitional opportunity. As always, I'm still hoping something good pops up.

    Very sadly I just don't see how he could go from long term instituionalization to near normal daily living. The long list of conduct disorder behavior topped off with the environment he has lived in just screams that he needs structure beyond what a parent could provide. Heartbreaking. DDD
  13. KTMom91

    KTMom91 Well-Known Member

    I don't even know what to say, k. Just know that I'm thinking about you and difficult child.
  14. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    DDD, I put Boys Town on hold when I saw difficult child continuing to misbehave in Department of Juvenile Justice- including the assault on staff. It's not completely off the table- my table, that is- but first, I found out they had a HUGE bust for being a sex porn/prostitution ring some years ago, I would have to get permission from the courts to transfer difficult child there, I would have to transport difficult child myself (meaning difficult child wouldn't run or assault or rob me, etc, while in transport), and if difficult child breaks a law and gets himself kicked out of that place, I foot the bill and he is stuck out there or I have to get courts to allow me to go get him, if I can find him. Also, with all that, Department of Juvenile Justice would have to release difficult child to me, then me get difficult child accepted there, then transport him. I just decided that if I could trust difficult child enough right now to believe he really wanted this and it would help him, it would be worth the battle with the courts to try, although I'd probably lose just like with the Residential Treatment Center (RTC) effort, but I would try and pay for it. However, I don't think difficult child is thinking beyond what he wants the day he gets released and that story suddenly changed to wanting to come back to live with me the day I wrote and told him he needed to be thinking about what he wanted at 18yo and what he needed to do now in order to have that lined up and that PO was at a point in time where he had to put in his recoommendation for difficult child's placement and parole plan to his super..
  15. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    There sure doesn't seem to be any win/win situation available. I am not trying to advocate for him...but for you. You are genuinely concerned about your own safety and evidently you are the only one who is except for the CD family. If you could get him pre-approved for admission, and if you could get him to understand that his future career goal is directly tied in with completion of his diploma at Boys Town, and if you could get him to see that school as his chance to prove that he wants to put Department of Juvenile Justice and inappropriate behaviors behind him, and if you could swing it financially (don't they have a sliding scale payment?),,,then you "could" hire a companion to either transport him or accompany you with the transportation.

    How's that for a bunch of "ifs"? on the other hand you indicated that the lady from Boys Town was welcoming and that is a good sign. I honestly don't see any choices other than home with you or in school there. There seems to be a snowballs chance in Hades that "the system" is going to release you from parental responsibility. Sure seems like the ball is in your court. If he "fails" at BT then you will know for sure that he would have failed at home. You will be safe from immediate fear and know you have done literally everything you could possibly do to help him mature. Sigh! DDD

    PS: If BT had a scandal what difference would it make to "the system"? I don't have a single doubt that reform follows scandal.....and I also don't doubt for a minute that your difficult child is large enough and volatile enough to protect himself should someone try to mess with him.
  16. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    DDD, if my son realized, cared and had enough self-control to live by those things, I wouldn't be afraid for him to live with me. LOL! I thought he'd realized that all last year and look what happened.

    It's me that flipped some over the scandal, but I'm on the fence about that part due to realizing that many were sent to prison for it, it was some years ago, and supposedly they are reformed now. on the other hand, that case about the lunatic "pastor" or whatever raping all the girls while on the one hand saying they were his wives so it justified it then at the same time claiming he wasn't responsible for any of their kids because he wasn't the husband so they all had to go on welfare, didn't help my confidence in the system any.

    As far as the courts approving this, I think there's a snowball's chance in Hades that they would. Remember, this is the same state that fought AGAINST and REFUSED to allow difficult child to go to Residential Treatment Center (RTC) when it was a locked facility, I had him accepted already, and had funding lined up- and difficult child hadn't been sent to Department of Juvenile Justice yet-= and the head state psychiatrist at the very facility that juvie sent difficult child to wrote judge and told GAL this was difficult child's best chance for rehabilitation.

    I'm telling you- it's like a dysfunctional family- if it makes sense to everyone else in the world, they will order the opposite. Keep in mind here, I am the pawn- this system OWNS difficult child.

    I had a judge in the past order me to get difficult child on medication insurance as soon as he got home (any ins drops a kid as soon as they get put in Department of Juvenile Justice) and this PO has told me he will order it. BUT this STATE claimed that the fed law requiring citizens to get medication insurance was unconstitional. Ok then- how can a juvie judge and juvie PO order a parent to do it then?
  17. AnnieO

    AnnieO Shooting from the Hip

    k, I found out not too long ago that Ohio (where I am of course) does not require ADULTS to be medically insured, but it DOES require adults to insure their children. It's a state mandate. So... If I had not added the kids to my insurance when bio passed, because our household makes too much to qualify them for medicaid, husband could go to jail for not insuring them.

    The whole thing is a stinking crock of bovine manure.

    FWIW? Minors aren't considered "citizens"... Unless you're talking about them having more rights than their parents.
  18. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    Once again I am sorry that this is all so you-knw-whated up. on the other hand, I'm missing a step or two in understanding. If, as I understood (possibly wrongly), they are insisting that he will be released to you then why do they have to approve where you place him? If they were taking responsibility for his next placement then I could understand why they would have the authority to approve or disapprove but if not...why?

    They have to do something. Provide State placement? Release to parental custody? They evidently don't plan to leave him where he is until he turns eighteen. Are you hoping that the Judge will intervene and place him in foster?
    I'm confused. I know that you have fought hard for him and for your safety but it sounds like they are getting ready to close the door. If they close the door...how can they prevent you from doing whatever you want to do? DDD

    PS: You have worked so hard to stabilize your life that I'm hoping that any decision is made well in advance to avoid mountin anxiety for you. Hugs
  19. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    At least in this state, when a juvenile is on probation or parole, they are still under the authority of "lthe courts" in the way of that PO so that PO determines everything, unless over-ruled by a judge. Just like an adult PO can tell a parolee where they can or cannot live, but being a juvenile, this gives them the "right" to tell a parent where they can or cannot send the child, what treatment they can or cannot give them etc. Yes, I've fought some of those battles in the past, and I know some people find it difficult to believe it's really this way because it seems so absurd, but it really is this way.

    If a parent moves but keeps the kid in theirr custody, they have to go thru certain processes to get the "parolee" accepted and transferred in the new jurisdiction, wheich includes them doing a home visit to see that it's adequate and the kid has a bedroom. (You'd think this was cps.) But with BT, difficult child would not be living in my custody, although I would still have parental rights. Therefore, the courts would have to approve it.

    difficult child and PO both have had months to prepare a proper, more likely "plan" but apparently they both thought I was bluffing all those times when I told them both that I was not comfortable with difficult child coming straight home and they needed to form a plan based on that. I told PO straight out that due to the failure of "their plan" last year, I will NOT try it again until difficult child and I have had the sort of intensive family therapy recommended by a psychiatrist and a PhD psychiatric, and that it will have to be completed prior to difficult child living with me again- and that doesn't mean a behavior contracted that was really outlined by a PO or behavior counselor. If they couldn't wouldn't do that, then plan for difficult child to age out of their system. They DO have funding to do more to help these kids- my son just never seems to qualify. Why? They determined a long time ago that I could provide it, under court order if need be. There are a lot of complexities though- for instance, they legally can keep difficult child (and therefore, me,) in the juvie system until he's 21. They will most likely do that if difficult child is living with me because I'm there sponge for whatever they want to require for difficult child. If I'm no longer writing the checks, providing the transportation, etc, they'll get difficult child out of their system asap. Mind you, before someone comments on that statement- I don't mind providing for my kid- it's just that the things POs require and their approach in general has proven to be toxic to difficult child and I both. It would be different if this actually helped rehabilitate my son. Instead it costs me my job in the past along with everything else.

    Step, it's not the ins that I was questioning- it's the playing both sides of something that this state does so much, the ins was just an example.
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2011
  20. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    I don't suppose there is any intermediator system in place when Department of Juvenile Justice wants X and the parent wants Y??

    I'm assuming you have to remain at an impasse (major stressor, I know) until "they" deem it necessary to go to Court?

    It's beyond a shame when caring parents are demasculated by "the system". Sigh & Hugs. DDD