Update...yeesh.

[Lil]

Ugh...I keep thinking of the look on my husband's face when he told me of the 10 year old boy selling himself for a bottle of liquor. I'm sure it isn't that, and if it is, all you can do is hope he's being safe, but man, that flashback really clobbered me all of a sudden.

Oh my! Your story was horrible, but one thing I'm absolutely sure of is that my son isn't going there! He has a job! and he'd lie, cheat and steal first. I guarantee it. He may not have much money, but he's not in that kind of shape!

 

[Jabberwockey]

all you can do is hope he's being safe

I think I'd have had to call the police for that kid. While I understand giving him the $20 and walking away, I couldn't have done that.

 

[GoingNorth]

Stu asked the clerk at the store to call the police; he wasn't carrying a phone, which in the state he was in at the time, was very stupid of him.

He didn't wait around because he was carrying narcotics in a pillbox as opposed to in their prescription bottles, which in Chicago would've resulted in a possession bust.

 

[GoingNorth]

Lil, thank goodness for that! I didn't think he was; but for some reason, that old memory just flashed across my brain.

 

[Lil]

He didn't wait around because he was carrying narcotics in a pillbox as opposed to in their prescription bottles, which in Chicago would've resulted in a possession bust.

Well that makes sense, though it's a rather foolish law if there is a valid prescription for it.

 

[GoingNorth]

Yes, and at that time, the bust would've resulted in property seizure. Stu was also extremely nervous about the CPD, having been beaten very badly by them during a protest years before.

 

[BusynMember]

Jabber and lil, you are both right. They will do what they like and find money anybway they can
Im just recentlibsurprised at how many people give alcohol use a free pass, even in adfiction prone families. So my rant was more about me than anyone else. Sorry.

 

[GoingNorth]

SWOT, alcohol is socially acceptable in our culture. Our government also makes a fortune off of it in tax dollars.

This is why with tobacco taxes dropping precipitously as users quit, the government is going after e-cig users to replace the lost income. The planned taxes are much higher than the ones currently on tobacco.

Alcohol has been around for a LOOONG time. In fact, many archeologists/anthropologists postulate that the reason grains were first domesticated and cultivated was for the purpose of making "beer". This is thought to have happened quite some time before cultivation for food use took place.

Other plants with psychoactive qualities were cultivated by early hominins for religious or recreational use,long before cultivation of plants for food was wide spread.

Something in what "makes us human" also seems to make us want to get "high".

 

[BusynMember]

GN, I know alcohol is socially acceptable and getting drunk is often seen as amusing even as we try to tell our kids not to abuse drugs. But alcohol IS a drug and often lethal. Alcoholics die. A lot.
Its not safe for many people.

 

[GoingNorth]

Alcohol is a deadly poison, or more correctly, the first stage metabolite of alcohol is a deadly poison. So long as used in small, moderate amounts, a healthy liver can detoxify the poison and break it down into sugar and water, in the process releasing more toxic aldehydes.

In very small doses, one unit or so, alcohol has some good effects on the body and brain, but a unit is not even a standard drink as served in either a can or bottle, or at a bar.

Even my occasional beers are in excess of one unit, because as imports, they are half a liter, or slightly over a US pint.

Combined with other drugs,especially benzos, alcohol can be deadly. Alcohol and opiates are also extremely dangerous and cause many deaths due to respiratory suppression. You just black out and "forget" to breathe.

I have no problem with alcohol use in moderation. However, while I believe OWI should be punished, I believe more in a treatment model for drug crimes, than a punitive model.

Anyone who gets behind the wheel after even one drink is an idiot. Anyone who drives under the influence of certain drugs without knowing FOR CERTAIN how those drugs effect them is an idiot. And the effects vary from person to person.

For example, I can drive under my (minimal) dose of lorazepam. I cannot drive under tramadol even in small doses, and I wouldn't dare attempt to drive under temazepam, which I also take a smallish dose of.

But, when all is said and done, Alcohol does a LOT more damage to the brain and body than opiates/opiods do, including heroin. Amphetamines are neuro and cardiotoxic as well as being psychologically very addictive, (Or, why I think Adderal and other stims probably shouldn't be prescribed to children unless closely monitored.

When I was in my 20s and stationed in Germany, I took part in a joint study done by the MPs and the Polizei. It was to test reflexes/ability to drive after consuming various amounts of alcohol.

I flunked after one beer, even though I felt sober, and my BA was only .03. My reflexes were slowed, and I had difficulty sorting through multiple road signs in time to follow the correct process for entering an intersection (this in a simulator).

That's when I decided that I would not drive after drinking...PERIOD. Even though I wasn't legally drunk by US standards, far from it, I was definitely impaired.

 

[Jabberwockey]

I flunked after one beer, even though I felt sober, and my BA was only .03.

Thats an incredibly high BA for only consuming one beer. Something to consider on this is the individual. I can consume one beer every 45 minutes or so and not become impaired. That being said, I rarely drink anymore. Sometimes we will go to our favorite Irish pub and have one or two beers with our meal and I will drive home fine. Take into consideration that this is over a two or so hour period. Point is, not every person will process the alcohol at the same pace.

So my rant was more about me than anyone else. Sorry.

Didnt consider it a rant. Nothing to be sorry for.

 

[savior no more]

"makes us human" also seems to make us want to get "high"

I agree. Man through the millennium has wanted to alter his consciousness.

 

[Lil]

Alcohol has been around for a LOOONG time. In fact, many archeologists/anthropologists postulate that the reason grains were first domesticated and cultivated was for the purpose of making "beer". This is thought to have happened quite some time before cultivation for food use took place.

You have to keep in mind that fermented drinks, beers and wines, were safe, when plain water was not, the alcohol killing any bacteria. People offered tankards of ale in the middle ages like we offer a glass of water to people. While throughout history drinking alcoholic drinks were the norm, drinking to excess was still looked down upon. Everyone drank, but being a drunkard was never acceptable.

Point is, not every person will process the alcohol at the same pace.

Definitely true. Size, weight, the amount you are used to drinking, heck, even ethnic background, can make a difference in your ability to metabolize and function.

In the 16+ years we've been together, I've seen Jabber drunk once. He got to test the alcohol monitoring ankle bracelet used by Probation and Parole one night. It took a lot of vodka and he got hungry before he got more than "happy". I have to admit, it was funny...driving my sloshed honey Steak & Shake at 2 a.m. lol

 

[GoingNorth]

At least all Jabber had to do was get drunk. When i first moved to Rhinelander, I got a job as a manager for an "adult gift" store, which also sold drug paraphernalia.

I enjoyed the adult gift part. Met a lot of interesting people. The paraphernalia part bothered me. I didn't mind selling pot pipes, bubblers and bongs.

I did mind selling "bubble" pipes for crack and meth, methods to beat drug tests, etc.

When I first started there, I had to take home a variety of porn and watch it so I could discuss it intelligently with my customers. Not a job requirement I enjoyed, especially not the more esoteric stuff.

Then, after about 2 years, we started selling spice and salvia. I researched and read up on them like crazy and the more I read, the more I worried about the products.

About 3 mos after we started carrying the two products, my boss informed me that I was to take packets of spice and salvia home with me and try them, again with the excuse that this way I could know what I was talking about with my customers, who were buying the hell out of the stuff.

I refused. We went back and forth about this for another 3 most and finally, my boss gave me an ultimatum. I quit on the spot.

I have spent a lot of time with file servers in the dining room and I'm fine with bringing that sort of stuff home from work. I will be damned if I'll do drugs as a requirement of a job.

 

[Lil]

While throughout history drinking alcoholic drinks were the norm

Great English, huh? Yes, I write legal decisions for a living.

I will be damned if I'll do drugs as a requirement of a job.

I'm frankly horrified. I honestly can't imagine an employer requiring that.

 

[GoingNorth]

He tried to get one of my clerks, a very pretty 18 year old, to pose for a "private photo shoot".

He was just a sleazeball. I turned him into the police the day I quit, but being as the shop was one of the only businesses in a tiny, unincorporated village, (one squad car) and it would've been bumped to the county level, I don't know if anything was ever done.

 

[Jabberwockey]

I was to take packets of spice and salvia home with me and try them, again with the excuse that this way I could know what I was talking about with my customers

Being able to talk to a customer intelligently about a product due to personal experience is NOT a requirement for a sales position of any kind. As you said, this man was a sleazeball who wanted you addicted to the crap so he would have some control over you.

 

[GoingNorth]

No, and I researched those products THOROUGHLY, to the point that I knew what brain receptors and enzymes were involved.

Spice is "herbs" treated with any number of synthetic cannabinoids. The synthetics used change as the laws change. You literally have no idea what Chinese chemical you are smoking when you use the stuff, and it is addictive.

Salvia has been around forever: one of the plants used by indigenous peoples for religious purposes. It offers a short and possibly the most extreme psychedelic high. The high is so intense that there is a risk of psychotic break.

Because one never knows WHAT one is smoking with spice, there is no way for medical personnel to devise a specific treatment for ODs and freakouts. All they can do is sedate and treat any negative symptoms while providing supportive care and hoping for the best.

Now, I am bipolar. I've also used all the psychedelics available in the 70s, except for some of the esoteric "shamanistic" drugs, carefully and under supervision of sober "sitters". I have NO desire to try modern psychedelics, and in fact,my medications would block the action of them, as both affect the dopamine system in the brain.

Salvia isn't addictive, but it can literally blow your mind. I think spice has been made illegal overall in many states now, as opposed to before where they'd make the specific synthetic cannabinoid it contained illegal, which just led to the mfrs changing chemicals to one not yet illegal.

I am hoping that happens, along with a blanket ban on "research chemicals", which are analogues of popular drugs of abuse made by slightly altering chemical formulae and hoping the new drugs provide a similar high. Many, many people have died or been left crippled physically or mentally, by RCs. The fentanyl used to cut heroin and now street oxy, is most often an analogue RC of the pharmaceutical drug. It's killed a lot of recreation users and addicts.

 

[Lil]

Well - he quit his job.

No real reason. He just called me and let me know that he was applying and had a couple job interviews and he had had to call in at Arby's for various reasons, etc., etc. and to just not answer if Arby's called. I finally I just asked him flat out if he was still working there and he said no. So why would they call? "Because they're idiots" and that's why he quit, was tired of always closing and working and everyone else not even trying, etc., etc....

Who cares.

I told him whatever. It's his life. He's the one that has to pay the bills and we're not doing it. He said he knew that. He was going to talk to the landlord. I wished him good luck.

Sad.

 

[GoingNorth]

Oy! It HIS job to work hard. It's his management's job to worry about how hard the others are working.

I had that figured out by the time I took my first real job at 14, which was at an Arby's, by the way. Back in the days when the roast beef was carved off the bone.