Visit in Jail

Discussion in 'Substance Abuse' started by Littleboylost, Nov 16, 2017.

  1. Littleboylost

    Littleboylost On the road unwanted to travel

    A kind family friend offered to visit son in jail. Felt he would try an intervention. It didn’t go well.

    Sons behaviour was extremely erratic. Up and down all over the place. Acusing us of horrible atrocities. Declaring he is never going to rehab and he wants us to drop the charges. Then saying he just wants to come home and see mom. Angry angry angry.

    Thinks his new GFs mom is going to bail him out. We do not believe that she is.

    His lawyer (legal aid) text me and said she is asking Duty Cousel to put his case over to Monday and she will be at court. Maybe more detox time, perhaps he will be calmer. Who knows.

    Worst feeling knowing what you are doing is what you have to do. Wishing you could get him mandated into rehab. Knowing that he will wind up with a criminal record. Nothing else can be done.
     
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  2. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    i think i know what you feel. some of it.

    honestly. i would not worry much about the criminal record. down the road, g-d willing, he can get this expunged.

    look. none of what you're doing has anything easy about it. just courage. and love.

    son is over his head. he is drug addled still. whether or not there are still drugs in his system. this is the state of mind that is governing his behavior. you know that.

    he is over his head.

    i believe he needs support. but such has to be conditional. for example. that he commit himself to a facility.

    but then. until he is to some extent rational and in control, nothing good will come of involving yourself.

    this is a process that has to move further along. i do not know how long detox will take.

    i know others will disagree but there are physicians/others who are addiction specialists. maybe you could consult them for counsel or intervention with your son. he is very young.

    while people here are knowledgeable and experienced, our voices are biased and based upon personal experience. we do not really know you or your son.

    nobody can or should tell you the right thing to do.

    you said what is the heart of the matter. nobody knows.
     
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  3. Littleboylost

    Littleboylost On the road unwanted to travel

    Copa
    Thank you. It helps to just vent. His legal aid cousleor is working with the court public defender to try to have his matters our over to Monday. Hoping for more detox time. She sent me a few texts just now this evening. She is a very caring and kind person. Son is fortunate to have her.

    Detox will take a good few weeks. He has been smoking pot heavily and using multiple substances. She was a salve to my wounds. Expressing how much we have been though and applauded us for doing the impossible but right thing. The aggressive phase to his detox will hopefully subside somewhat over the weekend.
     
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  4. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I am glad for you that somebody less able to be hurt was able to go for you. It sounds like son is, for whatever reason, unable to take responsilibity for what he did for now. Maybe later on, he will. Maybe not. It is hard, especially for us. Honestly, sometimes I think it is harder for us than them. Although my daughter is clean twelve years, she sometimes tells us a drug day story, usually laughing, as if it was the good old days. She did have a degree of fun in those days, although she had been fortunate enough not to have gone to jail. I can tell you not one of her drug days was the good old days for me!

    All any of us can do is try to get help for ourselves and wait. Through the years i have been here, many parents have seen sudden great improvements in their kids. Every story I recall happened after the parents were no longer actively involved in trying to fix it. Which is actually all we can do. Passively wait and live our lives the best we can. Somebody said to get out of their way. I like that.

    This doesnt mean we stop loving them. It means we love them enough to let them do it their way. They wont do it our way anyhow...not unless they are tired of their lives. I forgot what your son took. Drugs change the brain for a while. Did he take benzos? That is a tough detox. Will he be offered help in detoxing?

    Try to find peace. I suspect if he can stay clean he will feel remorse and make better choices. I will send healing vibes to the Universe for you and your son. Be good to yourself.
    Big hugs.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2017
  5. He's so young. Hang tough with not enabling him. I agree that doing what you have to do is the worst feeling. Here's hoping he can see the light without having to go too far down.
     
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  6. Littleboylost

    Littleboylost On the road unwanted to travel

    SWOT
    Thank you we do need to get out of their way and hope. No expectations but hope.
    He will not be offered anything for detox unless it becomes a medical emergency.
    They will not even initiate MAD in jail they just have to cold turkey it.

    Son is poly. Heavy heavy pot user including pot an tobacco in his bong hits. This makes him very addicted to nicotine as well and there is no smoking in Ontario jails. He does also take Benzos, cocaine and opioids. Rehab sites will tell you Poly users have ugly and longer detox periods with more aggression, psychosis and delusional thinking. That’s him to a T at the moment. It breaks my heart. It could be a blessing in disguise. He would be thrown out of rehab if he behaved like this at rehab. If he goes through this in lock up and becomes more reasonable perhaps he will go to rehab. It is what it is. I would give my right arm to change this.
     
  7. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Lbl, my daughter used speed of every type, psychodelics, meth and cocaine and she quit. Your boy can do it too. Wait and see. He has so much time...
     
  8. Sam3

    Sam3 Active Member

    I envisioned your son pacing as he talked, when I read this. Jonesing.
     
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  9. Lost in sadness

    Lost in sadness Active Member

    I have no words really, it is their own path, of their choosing. I think the fact they are so young makes it harder for us as mums, we still feel so responsible, like we should be 'doing' something. It eats away at our souls. My son sometimes accuses me of starving him, the pain is too much to bare. The fact he has been working a full time job and could buy his own food seems irrelevant to him! If your son can get clean in rehab he has a really good chance of coming through this because who would choose to go back to that life?!! Hold out as long as you can, he needs to feel the pain to realise what he is loosing Gosh, listen to me! Hugs xx
     
  10. Littleboylost

    Littleboylost On the road unwanted to travel

    Sam my friend was shocked that the guards did not interrupt the visit. He was up and down and shouting one second crying the next. Still calling the shots with zero remourse. Punching his own head. I have seen all this before when he has been in a post cocaine drug frenzy. Once it was simply over the internet not working.

    This is the frightening son. He has been in lock up for 5 days now. If he does get put over to Monday I hope by then he is through this terrible phase.

    I must steel my heart and anticipate all outcomes. If he decides to plead to get out he may well get time served and probation. He will on his addled mind attempt to come home. If he does I will call the police as one of his conditions will be no contact with his victims. He will breach this among other conditions.

    The revolving door, as Leafy so aptly calls it; has done a Monsters inc. the drug monster is gong in and out of jail instead of on and out of our home. It must be so.

    Nothing changes unless something changes.
     
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  11. Littleboylost

    Littleboylost On the road unwanted to travel

    Lost yes! Listen to tou. I honestly feel this sight is our own CBT. It has worked that way for me.

    When I arrived her I was beyond hope and did not have the tools or the strength to be wheee I am today.

    A good friend sent me this link. More reinforcement to know I am doing the right thing.
     
  12. Littleboylost

    Littleboylost On the road unwanted to travel

    Gabor Mate
    Gabor thinks it is a Bio Psycho Social disorder. He feels that punishing addicts is wrong. He feels the choice comes from pain and does not believe addiction is a disease. I fully agree with that. Our system lets addicts fall through the cracks and they engage in crime and get into the judicial system. We need a better way to manage addiction. I agree that psycho therapy and harm reduction need to come before incarceration. My hands are tied with a system who will not mandate therapy and rehabilitation.
     
  13. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    i was not clear. i was talking about quitting. not using.

    i agree with gabor. to a point. i think your son was stupid (not really) and immature and got in over his head. way over.

    but at this point i do not believe he is choosing to use. what i was saying is i do not believe gabor believes the now addicted person can easily choose to stop.

    they can in time learn the skills, after detox, but that is not the same as choice to stop. they can choose to over time learn the skills to stop and to maintain them.

    i am trying to understand and learn.
     
  14. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I dont think any country forces us to get well. If we have camcer and want tp skip treatment, we can. Addiction is the same.

    I think addiction is an avoidable illness. If you know its in tour DNA you can abstain. I did and two of my adopted kids with addiction in the family abstained.
     
  15. New Leaf

    New Leaf Well-Known Member

    LBL, you are strong.
    I have seen the psychosis of what they call here “tweaking”. Violent mood swings.
    Off the wall stuff that normal people just don’t do.
    In my own home.
    With my grandkids here.
    Volcano and Tornado would swear up and down that they “just smoked pot.”
    Huh.
    That’s what I wanted to believe.
    But, as 50 shades of crazy got crazier and crazier, I had to face it, this was not “just pot”.
    Hubs and I put up with waaaaaaay too much, because of our grands.......if their mom went, they went.
    We couldn’t see the forest for the trees, that we were just prolonging our grands misery.
    Oh yes, we called CPS, etc. but the agency was slow to respond, or more concerned with “keeping the family together.”
    Then there is Rain..........
    Our story is a long and heartbreaking arduous road.
    Okay, it is a WAR.
    We made it our war, thinking we were doing right by our grands.
    But, we weren’t.
    We were just prolonging the agony.
    For everyone.
    It is horrible to see the effects of drugs on our loved ones.
    What happened to my child? My children.
    My two adult daughters?

    While writing this I thought of some old posts
    from a member who posted a year or so ago, for the life of me it took me ages to find him this morning)
    His posts were very helpful to me, because they came from the “other side”. He was sharing his experience as a drug addict. Then I found him! Remember Darkwing gang?
    Reading Darkwings posts helped me to see what is going on in an addicts mind. I think everyone here benefited from his view point.
    It may help you to figure out your next steps.
    LBL, your son is so young.
    I am so sorry for the pain of this for you and your husband.
    I have no experience with my two and jail. They have managed to avoid it. Although Volcano hasn’t. He was recently there on DV charges for abusing my daughter. He actually had the nerve to call me ( I had no idea of what went on before hand to land him in jail) and ranted for the minute he had, wanted to come to my home.
    WHAT? Really?
    No way Jose.
    My grands are with his parents and they eventually bailed him out.
    My poor grands.
    The chaos.
    Well, he called a while back and was in a manic phase, going on about how he was going to get clean on his own, blah, blah, blah.
    Last I heard, he is at it still, going down the tubes.
    He is going to be 30.
    30.
    With three kids.
    He and Tornado have been cycling for years.
    Back and forth between our homes, using their kids as bait, living on the edge and pulling everyone into the storm of it.
    I’m sorry, I am rambling.
    I guess what I am trying to say is that what you have on your side is the wisdom of this site.
    The fact that your son is so young.
    I wish I had known back then, when the first signs were so bloody blatant, what I should have done. It was so complicated with babies involved.
    It didn’t seem blatant then, FOG, bloody FOG.

    CD is like blaring headlights on a foggy road.

    You have your headlights on to find your way through this much earlier than hubs and I did.

    That gives your son a better chance to have to look at himself.

    It gives you the chance to bolster yourself, and your relationship with your husband.

    That’s one of my biggest regrets.
    How much time we both spent trying to fix something we couldn’t. The time we lost together because our focus was on two adult daughters going off the rails. We were jumping in front of speeding trains only to be run over again and again.
    In this time, hubs became sick, nearly losing his life twice. This did not stop my daughters from continuing the crazy.
    Or using their father.
    I had already decided that I was done.
    We were not on the same page, hubs and I.

    Addiction is insidious, cunning and ugly.
    Crafty, deceitful and manipulative.
    They triangulated.
    I was, and still am the “bad” guy.
    Hubs retreated more and more inside of himself and contracted sepsis, again, his third and final bout that took him.
    Even that did not stop the madness.
    No ephipany or pivot point came.
    In fact, on the day of scattering his ashes, Tornado and Volcano had one of their episodes.
    It was horrible.

    I am writing all of this to you and anyone else out there who is reading along, because it is such a loss to lose yourself, your relationship with your husband through the rigor of this journey.
    I can’t turn back the hands of time, but I can put our experience out there to try and help others understand that when you are in the “heat” of it, the days, months and years start slipping by, and you can’t get them back.

    Though this path that your son is on is so difficult to witness, try with all of your might to find your peace in the midst of the storm.
    Find ways to take your mind off of what is happening with him, and separate yourselves from it.
    It is extremely stressful, I know. I remember going through the motions of my life with the drama just swirling around me.

    Stress is a killer.
    The emotional stress we deal with our d cs is off the charts.
    Find ways to de stress, relax and enjoy your life.

    It sounds impossible, with all that your son is facing, with what he has subjected himself to.
    And you, and your husband.

    Things will happen as they do.
    Your son is going to learn and change, or he is not.

    In the meantime, do things for yourself. Find ways to breathe.

    Take care of yourself and your husband.

    Things will happen as they do.
    The clock is still ticking and each moment we have on this earth is precious.

    No matter what is happening in our lives, emotional havoc, despair, acceptance, peace and joy, our d cs will do what they want to.

    I decided that I have been in the swirly whirly long enough.

    So, I choose peace and joy.

    My despair and pining over my two, did absolutely not one thing to change their course. What it did was cause me immense stress and rob me of time.

    Finding ways to step back and let the consequences fall where they may, picking up the fragments of your heart and gluing them back together is so important.

    Don’t forget to sleep. It is so important for your health. I know it is hard right now with your mind racing in a million places.
    Find time to rest.
    Take care of yourself LBL.
    You matter.
    (((Hugs)))
    Leafy
     
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  16. Littleboylost

    Littleboylost On the road unwanted to travel

    My dear Leafy
    You are so right the wisdom of this site has catapulted me over some ugly time sucking hurdles and for that I am forever grateful.

    I have been reading some experts from this site to Hubs. He is my sensitive absent minded professor. He is my Ostrich. He would never joined the site but I have shown him how to follow the site. He has come out of his shell so much. He is speaking more about the heart break and sorrow of this tragic journey. It has helped a heat deal.

    A gift of time, wisdom and knowledge from family who have passed through the horrific gates of addiction rhat are slightly to the left of Hell; are precious pearls.

    I can say I have never found so many brave people in one place.

    Well my son will be a Tasmanian devil as his plans for release did not happen today; and he is not on the court docket for Monday. I hope this extra time sees him vent his anger and release more of the drug venom from his mind.

    Time will tell and that telling time is not today.

    Husband is home from his business trip and we had a quiet evening out. I am praying I sleep tonight.

    Thank you for sharing your experience. I had a terrible terrible day. One of those days where you cry until your eyes swell. Ugh. It was a good release. Then I did some meditation for me.
    This was a great help 1/2 way through will finish the other half tomorrow.


    May tomorrow bring a Simple peace to all of our deserving souls.
     
  17. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    i am glad to know your husband might be following our posting.

    m would never, ever post. first he believes everything in the internet is suspect. even a calculator. even about paint.

    and he is stoic . he would not disclose.

    but we talk about everything. and try to have a united front with my son. m is an unbelievable support to me. he reads my son very well and loves him. while he has hope he is very guarded and realistic. not swayed by manipulation. yet truly wanting to guide him i truly could not have done this without him.

    m believes my son still believes he can sucessfully snow us. he believes son still is not intrinsically motivated. he believes my son loves me but it is a highly circumscribed and self-serving love. ouch.

    while i try hard not to think this way it is helpful to have this perspective so i stay in the real world.

    both of us are united in believing we do not help my son by letting him, supporting him to live poorly, marginally with our help.

    i fear that we will have to again tell him to leave. he is going to n.a. but really does not want to quit. he will pay lip service to how pot is affecting him. but he likes life better with it.

    we are of the belief that is his choice. but leave us out of this lifestyle. but we keep relenting. which is our problem. but choose to see this as a renewed attempt to support as opposed to enable him. but this try is soon to end if he does not show demonstrable change. he can go to teen challenge, or a shelter, as he chooses. but he does not want to. oh well. but words are not cutting it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2017
  18. Littleboylost

    Littleboylost On the road unwanted to travel

    Well M has my son down to a T. It still cuts a swath through my innards to think of how deceitful my son could be. And have no remourse just rage and demands.

    He has not called us from jail but a friend of mine who is a lawyer said that our numbers may well be in a block list for him because we are the victims of his crimes. We never though if that.

    He is not on the Court Docket for Monday. So I am not certain he will be in court or not.

    I may go to court and sit in a far corner. I would like to see him. Also to see if his attitude has changed any.

    My husband would never post, but he is learning and growing from reading.

    We are not alone my dear husband, we are far from alone.
     
  19. Albatross

    Albatross Well-Known Member

    I am glad hubs is reading along; I share many posts with my hubs as well.

    I have been thinking quite a bit about your son and jail and his court date. Your son's story parallels my son's story in many ways.

    I don't want to go into details of my son's story, but I will say that the hardest decision we ever had to make involved sitting on our hands while his public defender took weeks to talk to him and months (months!) to meet with him. If it weren't for the strong persuasion of a good friend and recovering addict friend of ours, we certainly would have stepped in. Good lord, who wouldn't?!? No one should have to sit in jail for MONTHS, waiting to even find out which direction they are headed.

    As it turns out, our son needed exactly that. He needed to be in such a place of fear and uncertainty that his foundation was completely rocked, and he needed MONTHS to clear his thinking to the point where he was ready to even BEGIN to listen and understand. As parents who desperately wanted our son back, we weren't emotionally equipped to accept that. It took a seasoned pubic defender and a recovering addict to tell us to stand back. I'm so glad we did, and so is our son.

    So in addition to my first inclination, which is to say that you and hubs are the victims here and severing all contact for awhile is certainly reasonable and understandable, I also have to say that if the best thing for your son is your only consideration, sometimes the best thing isn't what we would expect at all.

    I don't know what's best for your son, and I certainly don't know what life in a jail in Canada is like. Not fun, I'm sure. But I wanted to share our story and say that the right thing to do isn't necessarily to get involved at all, at this stage. Life in the rabbit hole can lead us to make choices that a "good" parent would never make otherwise.
     
  20. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I have often thought, especially since coming to this site, how hard it would be for us, and must be for others, to have an only child who is not doing well. If all we had was Bart it would be much harder for me to handle him emotionally. It is often my other kids and my granddaughter who give me comfort when Bart is so sad.
    My heart goes out to mothers and fathers of struggling only children. It is never easy, but I do think your one and only beloved child struggling makes it harder.

    Love to all.
     
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    Last edited: Nov 18, 2017