We have some answers

[InsaneCdn]

as long as you do not ask him to codify it into left or right... but if he has to copy a geometric pattern that is in front of him, it will take him ages and parts of it will be wrong and/or very slipshod.

Read more: http://www.conductdisorders.com/forum/f6/we-have-some-answers-53576/#ixzz2RgA5CQqZ

Mid-line processing.
If you have to cross over between right and left, or specifically make both coordinate... it becomes complicated.
And it seems to affect fine skills more than gross skills.
Thus... the cases of highly athletic kids who have major problems with writing, reading, art...
I've also heard/read somewhere that some skills use predominantly right or left brain - but skills that really make both sides of the brain work together can be harder for some of us (and writing is one of those skills, in particular)

 

[BusynMember]

Malika, I think it is individual to each person, as are most things. I can't copy pictures either...or draw a straight line (yet I am a very proficient writer). But if I have to look at it and copy it, maybe I see it differently...I can't. Although I have no, zilch, nada sense of direction and of where I am in space and time, left and right is also an issue with me. No doubt about it, if my passenger in my car says, "You turn right here" I turn on the left turning signal.

You are right that these are cloudy areas and affect us all in our own way. I do believe there is a ton of things to help people like J. (and me). In my case, they just didn't know about these things, but I think J. will do very well in the right, understanding school. One thing you may use, if you want to tune J. into right and left is to tell him to think which hand he writes with. This helps me, although I don't always think about it. But when I do, I never make a mistake about turning. Or drawing something in the right direction.

It's good that he is coordinated. There is nothing worse than knowing that none of your peers want you on their team during gym time, although I'm sure they even do team games in France (this is something I wish they would abolish in gym class, but that's another thread). It is good also that he is not clumsy. I can still trip over my own feet and good coordination is very helpful in life. I hope he doesn't have trouble holding a pencil correctly and writing. I had such sloppy papers.

Keep us posted. J. is an interesting boy with a lot going for him. We are all cheering for him!

 

[svengandhi]

Vision therapy might be useful. PC16 is dyslexic and has visual spatial issues - his imbalance in scores is even more pronounced than J's - 133 verbal IQ and 2nd percentile in visual spatial skills. He also had a muscle issue in one eye and had surgery when he was 9. VT helped him a lot. Youngest boy is also dyslexic and he also has a pronounced discrepancy though not as pronounced as PC16. He has been wearing bifocals since age 9 and had 9 months of vision therapy. He could barely read before that but is now reading at high high school level and is even taking an honors science class this year in 8th grade. VT made all the difference. After 3 sessions, he was willing to try reading and he did great.

VT might help J be able to focus his eyes better and improve his reading.

Most ADHD kids are very bright. They have great memories but are sometimes too distracted to use them.

Good luck.

 

[Malika]

Yes, it's something to do with vision, in a sense. J has told me that when he is reading one line, his eyes are on the next, or on the previous line, which fits in with what I have read about this kind of dyspraxia.

I have followed the suggestion I have read about and recopied one of his school texts into a book, alternating the colour of the lines, black and red. He is also using his finger to move along and read. Tonight he said "I like reading now!" That is SOME turnaround...

 

[BusynMember]

I used a ruler. I learned to compensate for this problem, by the way. J. is going to learn a lot of tricks to help himself as he gets older. He needs to be able to survive the teachers who don't understand him...if he can, he will be fine.

 

[Malika]

Thanks MWM. Actually, from the reading I've done so far, it's clear that this VSD is actually a serious handicap in terms of school. If it is not identified and accommodated, children suffering from it will be in serious difficulties very early because they cannot read, write or do maths in the normal way. In France, they are apparently automatically entitled to be classified as handicapped, with various services and financial help.

It explains so much... And, frankly, thank god it's been identified so J can get serious help and no longer be seen as lazy/untidy/unwilling, etc.

 

[BusynMember]

Malika, any neurological difference makes it hard for a child to learn in a "normal" way, but it doesn't mean he can't learn. I'm glad you are on this because it IS serious, but there is help and I hope he gets all that he deserves. Differently wired kids are so misunderstood...honestly, teachers act like they deliberately are trying to make their lives miserable when, in fact, usually the child is doing the very best he can. Worse, teachers act likt the child is defiant and deliberately refusing to learn. Why would any child do that???? As a young kid, I remember being so puzzled when I got into trouble. Half the time I had no idea what I had done wrong. I hadn't meant to do anything wrong...

Good for you for getting the answers you needed!!!

 

[Malika]

Just received the neuro-psychiatric. report. It is now incontestable that he is ADHD - she carried out many tests of attention/concentration and he is way, way below the norm for his age, simply unable to concentrate for any length of time, with a VERY high distractibility and impulsivity. He is not autistic according to the test she carried out.

However, despite what she said to me on Friday, she now moves away from a formal diagnosis of visuo-spatial dyspraxia, saying only that he has visual, temporal and spatial problems. Apparently other visual and spatial tests he did show that he is just within the norm and cannot allow a formal diagnosis of dyspraxia....

I can see, reading the report, how stimulants would help him, would have to help him, in terms of school. That does not mean I am convinced that he should take them. But I wonder if we should conduct a trial over the summer holiday, if the psychiatrist is willing?

 

[SuZir]

Malika: I think there is nothing to loose in trying stimulants. I understand you may be worried about long term effects (but then again, they have been giving them to kids very liberally in North America few decades now and there hasn't been too many cases of kids growing extra heads - or having offspring with eight hands, so it seems they are relatively safe) and that philosophical side of it bothers you. But they are quickly in and out medications, so trying them, seeing how they effect J etc. would not cause harm. And after that you would at least know if there is any reason to even think about stimulants for him at all. if they are not helpful, you can forget them. If they are helpful, then you may start to consider pros and cons.

 

[Malika]

Thank you SuZir. My objection is not philosophical. Or even, truth be told, about the insufficiently studied long-term effects. It is in regard to the very immediate side effects of insomnia/sleeping problems - J being a child who has NEVER had sleeping difficulties - suppressed appetite and possible increased irritability/anxiety/nervousness.

 

[InsaneCdn]

At J's age... it's tougher to choose to go with medications.
By the time they are 10/12... they are developmentally at a different stage, and far more able to communicate about the positives and negatives of a medications trial...
Having said that... both of mine were on stims before the end of first grade.

 

[justour2boys]

I have not read the responses, but something came to mind I wanted to mention. I would strongly encourage you to have your son's vision checked. And by that I mean very detailed visual testing... not just the testing for near and/or far sightedness. So you can rule out any issues with his vision. The reason I bring it up, my oldest difficult child had vision difficulties with tracking (following words on a page) and convergence (both eyes working together) and he underwent vision therapy... and it did help. Just something to think about.

 

[TerryJ2]

Malika, I'm coming to this very late, but wanted to say that it's great you've gotten some answers! This is very informative and helpful. Bravo.

 

[Malika]

I have not read the responses, but something came to mind I wanted to mention. I would strongly encourage you to have your son's vision checked. And by that I mean very detailed visual testing... not just the testing for near and/or far sightedness. So you can rule out any issues with his vision. The reason I bring it up, my oldest difficult child had vision difficulties with tracking (following words on a page) and convergence (both eyes working together) and he underwent vision therapy... and it did help. Just something to think about.

Thank you. I have already made an appointment with a specialist eye doctor who can monitor this kind of thing in June. It seems related, yes. J himself has said that when he is reading a line, his eye is looking at the one before or the one after...

 

[susiestar]

I just saw this and have not read all replies. Please know this is NOT hopeless. My mother and I both struggle with what we call 'a touch of dyslexia'. We transpose letters and numbers and are not always aware of it. Most of the time it isn't a big deal but some things do make it work. What I experience is at least part of what the neuropsychologist says J is coping with. It can drive me nuts but mostly it isn't too much of a hindrance. I learnd coping skills along the way and it made a big difference. I use picture associations to work with the letters. SOmetimes I look at a word and it ust seems to be written incorrectly. I learned various little things like the capital E opens to the right just like it is looking at my watch. I have mixed dominance of left/right handedness and always had a watch on my right hand instead of the left. I imagined the E as a face of someone looking at my watch.

There are similar tricks that he can learn. I still caannot always tell left from right. I couldn't EVER do it until I started learnng to drive. I learned that to turn left the tirn signal lever goes up and then I look at the light on the dashboard to see which way to turn. When my driver's ed teacher caught on he was floored.

The vision specialists can do amaziing things. I know you like France, but J is not going to get what he needs there. At least not in your village. I am sorry.

One thing that helps to keep him on the right line is a bookmark with a small rectangle cut out to fit over a line of text. I have seen some that school proved and many that kids or parents or teachers created to help with-o spending $. I mostly just taped pieces of cardstock together so they fit over the text in the book. At the end of the line you move the bookmark down. It can be a big help and is really easy. You can block out the rest of the page or just lines around the one you are working on.

Be careful with test scores. They help a lot, but they are snapshots. They are a picture of how his mind was working at that time. They present a baseline. Future testing will give even moe information. It is important that you have as much info on the testing for your files and Parent Report.

 

[Malika]

Thanks, susiestar, that's good to know.

Actually, I'm not particularly (at all ) attached to France, and he will get more here, in fact, in terms of services and help than either the UK or Morocco. If we are in the right place, but even round here there's probably a lot more to be dug out. Had no idea there was one of these specialist eye doctors, for example, in the local town.

The neuro-psy. evaluation has made things both clearer - simply no more doubt possible about the ADHD and has identified the visual/spatial problems that explain various things - and harder. The argument for staying in France becomes stronger. I want to go, I want to go!! But here there is so much more infrastructure. Even the village is good for him, really, a mini social life.

No, I'm not talking myself into staying. But even the school could become more accommodating... we could set up an equivalent to an IEP, I could get more people on my side, continue educating them.

Change is so bloody difficult. And the outcome so uncertain.

 

[InsaneCdn]

Change is so bloody difficult. And the outcome so uncertain.

And that is true EVERYWHERE.

 

[Malika]

Well, the neuro-psychiatric. has written a report with good recommendations kind of specially tailored to the school (after we spoke on the phone today) and I hope to get a PAI written up for him - something like your 504, I think. This will be useful even at another school later. She has stressed just how tired trying to concentrate makes him and also that he has no control over some of his impulsive behaviour. It would be unkind to wish the school another ADHD child in the near future but still.. they will hopefully be a bit better informed if ever the unthinkable happens and they get another "not normal" pupil...

 

[InsaneCdn]

She has stressed just how tired trying to concentrate makes him and also that he has no control over some of his impulsive behaviour

And the two go together... but that "fatigue factor" is HUGE.

 

[BusynMember]

OH, they've had ADHD kids before. They aren't rare. They just don't recognize them and the teachers don't either. Nor, sadly, do many of the diagnosticians there. When I went to school they didn't know about ADHD, Learning Disability (LD), autism, etc. either. They had other labels: Defiant, lazy, stupid, slow, underachievers, products of horrific parenting...you know the labels