Finally broke and called an ambulance last night

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by HowMuchLonger, Mar 5, 2011.

  1. HowMuchLonger

    HowMuchLonger New Member

    difficult child 3 went into typical rage again last night and I finally had enough and called for an ambulance.

    He had been out playing with friends and suddenly called me from a cell phone (??!!) to ask for another 1/2 hour to play. I asked where cell phone came from he said "an older boy". That didn't sit well with me so I drove over to the playground they were supposed to be at and couldn't find him. I drove around for 1/2 hour and came home to call back this cell phone but before I could he called me I was questioning him he suddenly yelled out "F* F* F*, F* you that hurt" and started crying. I was screaming into phone "what happened, whats wrong" and he then hung up on me. I was worried out of my mind..thinking all sorts of crazy things were happening with this "older boy" so raced back over there.

    I saw him, his 9 year old friend and then this teenager walking towards me. I called to difficult child 3 to come to me..he refused. I went to him and he explained the older boy had thrown an iceball and it'd hit him in the head (phew..nothing crazy). But I still wanted to talk to him about the language on the phone and that playing with this kid...probably 14-15 was not happening. He immediately changed..his tone, facial expression and I knew I was in for it but tried to hold on. As I was explaining this all he was "whatever, yeah yeah..."I finally said if you don't listen and acknowledge me, you're done for the day. He then proceeded to just start copying what i was saying in a nasty rude tone of voice. I couldn't get him to stop so told him he was coming home

    He tried to get away from me so I grabbed his shirt and literally dragged him to my car. I tried for several mins to get him in, but as soon as I would, he'd jump out and try to run away while I was getting into my side. Finally SOMEHOW got him in and started to drive away. He tried to jump out of the moving car TWICE while I was driving back home so i had to drive with one hand and hold his clothing with the other to keep him from jumping. The whole while he was practically foaming at the mouth spitting obscenities and telling me how horrible i was. He was flailing his arms and legs and kicking at the car/door. I got to my house and pretty much dragged him out the driver's side for fear if I let go of his clothing for even a minute I'd lose him. He then punched me in the face once. As soon as he did it he said "i'm sorry i'm sorry i didnt' mean to"...but then punched me two more times. He's a little guy and it really didn't hurt, but it was the thought and intent behind it that mattered.

    I threw him up the porch steps and into the house and picked up the phone to call 911. difficult child 3 was screamign the entire time in the background "I DONT NEED A F*ING AMBULANCE I'M CALLLLLLMMMMMM" (yeah ok). But unfortunately by the time the police got there he was fairly diffused. He was still "not right" so they did get to see a bit of it. He was not screaming or flailing anymore but he was still talking very low and drawn out and saying rude things "i hate my stupid mother, my brother is an a-hole" (not swearing but saying that exact phrase). He refused several times to go with either the officer or ambulance attendants but they finally got him out. As he went past me int he doorway he said "dont come to the hospital" and looked at me with pure hatred....i just broke was all too much :(

    I got to the hospital about 30 mins after the ambulance..they took him to the worst possible hospital right downtown so parking was crazy. He refused to speak to me but seemed calm. They got him a room as soon as I got there in the emergency psychiatric ward and then we talked with many people. I noticed they had a camera and probably microphone in the room so I was just going to let difficult child 3 do "his thing" without too much interaction hoping they could see/hear him go off. He said several times "I need to get out of this f'ing's gay" "this room is too f'ing small....get me out of here" "why the f* are you here, get lost" etc. He then grabbed the hospital tray thing that raises and is on wheels and started methodically wheeling it towards me as if to smash it into my face (I was sitting in a chair across from him). I finally took it from him and wheeled it out of the room. So even though he was calm he was still not himself. The resident psychiatrist finally came and started questioning him. It was the same old BS...he feels he's being bullied (I swear I'd bet my house that he's not and problem. has never been...HE'S the bully), says he sleeps bad (again, we feel totally untrue, just an excuse) all the rest was standard as for his excuses for the behaviour. The psychiatric seemed to totally eat it up, I just kept my mouth shut and waited my turn.

    We left the room and talked alone without difficult child 3 for about an hour. I told her everything he said was total BS and/or was his reality, NOT in fact the rest of the world's reality. She told me she thought they'd request an urgent pysch referral and then left the room. She came back and said "ok, no pysch referral" WHAT??? This kid tried to jump from a moving vehicle and has in the past threatened to kill himself and he doesn't need some sort of pysch evaluation or something?? She said "at this age we don't find counselling to work all that well in these situations, and besides you already have him in a type of counselling" (which is our twice monthly sessions that are not one on one, but with a group of kids/parents and aren't interactive...just social workers giving us the kids don't really get to share feelings, and it's not personal to any one kid. She said she thinks a change of medications is in order. Either a dosage increase or a totally different medication. She said once they get the ADHD medications optimized we may then chose to add on another medication that helps to control anger (?) can't remember the exact terminology she used. Also, wants us to contact a service here that comes into the home and basically offers the entire family help, ideas, suggestions, counselling.

    I told her I felt she'd given me nothing, no help. All these changes are things I could've put into effect myself. That i didn't want the in home counselling, as it was just going to be everythign we've already tried the last 3 years without success, but that I would try anything at this point. She also wanted to write me a script for the new medications she was suggesting rather than the Adderall. I declined the script as I would rather have the pediatrician he's seeing now give us that script in case anything went wrong with it, i'd have noone to call for help.

    By this point difficult child 3 was sleeping in a chair and I woke him up to go home. Walking to the truck he apologized for everything (blah, i'm done taking apologies).

    As of today, we've taken away "fun stuff" - video games, computer, outside time...for the whole weekend and informed him husband and I were going to talk and come up with a plan for what happens from here on out. There will be no more playing at this playground, or with teenagers, or with the boy he was with. I'm thinking limiting him to our street only is going to have to be the way. If he can't be trusted in my car, then he can't go so far that I need the car to come get him. I'm going to seriously limit his freedom and expect a lot of backlash but i dont knwo what else to do.

    thanks for listening/reading
  2. HaoZi

    HaoZi Guest

    Has he gotten worse since going on the Adderall? Not all kids do well on stims, some do a lot worse.
  3. HowMuchLonger

    HowMuchLonger New Member

    I find he was really bad with no medications...these meltdowns, school issues were almost daily. Starting the ritalin there was a positive change at school but he was still raging out of school, dexedrine same thing...positive change at school but the ups and downs between dosages were filled with either manic silliness or raging. The adderall at first seemed to do it all...positive school behaviours and home was pretty calm. but he's been taking the adderall now for about 2.5 months and the rages and defiance are coming back again..maybe he's starting to get too used to them? She did say he's on a very low does..I guess why she wants them upped or changed to a longer acting formula.

    Also, the start of the adderall was filled with lots of other changes. we started it the first day of xmas break, so he was at home, no school anxieties. Right after the school break he went into his out of school program for 6 weeks and is now back at regular school for the past 2 weeks. It's hard to figure out what/how the medication is affecting the behaviours because there are other circumstances. Is it the return to home school/peers? The transition out of the behavioural program? etc.

    If I had to say an overall opinion I'd have to say the Adderall has done more good than harm in the big picture, but the "episodes" seem to be getting more outrageous and violent
  4. shellyd67

    shellyd67 Active Member

    Wow you had a rough night girl ! I am so sorry. There have been several times I should have called an ambulance for my difficult child. He has calmed down alot in the last year but last year and the years prior he was an absolute nightmare. I do agree with HaoZi, his medications (stims) may be causing some of the problems.

    I hope you find all the help you need and peace you deserve.
  5. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    Sorry the night was so rough. I think calling 911 was exactly the right thing to do, even though it felt like a big waste of time. You are likely going to have to keep doing it and going through this to get to the point where you get any real help. It can take 5 or 6 trips liek this to the ER for them to see that you really need help and it isn't just the kid having a bad day. As if normal kids tried to jump out of moving cars when they are having a bad day, sheesh, but this is how it goes a lot of the time.

    The purpose for the ER trip is to get the paper trail and documentation by people other than you and husband. THIS is what will help in the long run.

    Was the doctor talking about an atypical antipsychotic such as risperdal or seroquel? I would be asking the docs about adding one of these - they help with raging and aggression and can be very effective. Some tests do have to be done before you start and while you are on them, but as dangerous as he is I would think it would be worth it. He simply isn't able to make safe choices while raging.

    Next time PLEASE stop the car and call 911 rather than driving 1 handed and holding him with the other. Also go out to your car and set the child locks. A hassle for you but a safety issue for you and everyone on the road/sidewalks around when he is like this. If you open the rear door and look at the edge of the door where it meets the frame you should see a little lever you can move. At one side it sets the rear door locks so they open from the inside and anyone in back can open them. If you move it to the other side the back doors will not open from the inside. You will have to open the door for the kids each time, but it is worth it to keep them from jumping out while you are driving, Know what I mean??
  6. HML,

    So sorry to hear about your rough night! That age was a very difficult time for our difficult child, and at times things really got out of control. I don't have anything new to add - just wanted to let you know that I understand and am thinking of you. Hang in there.

  7. HowMuchLonger

    HowMuchLonger New Member

    I was thinking the same thing might not have accomplished much but now they know us. If we have to go that route again, at least i won't have to re-explain the situation....I feel like after talking to the officer, then the ambulance attendant, then another officer, nurse, GP and finally psychiatrist, I told the story over and over and over again...I was starting to get sick of my own voice. She didn't give me an exact name of a medication she was thinking of for anger control, but did say she would prefer if we got the ADHD medications figured out before adding anything else. After fighting the last 2.5 years to keep him off medications i'm just so ready to give him a cocktail to keep him "normal".

    The worst part about last night is I felt they somewhat turned it around to me (and perhaps reasonably so). I pretty much cried the entire time (to which difficult child 3 continually asked.."why are you crying??!!" ugh), and when the psychiatric informed me they were sending him home with pretty much nothing I just broke down. I was angry, scared, confused, resentful and really unsure of whether I even wanted to bring him home and I couldn't even talk I was just so letdown at that point. Her response was for me to make sure I was taking MY if I was just this emotionally wrecked crazy woman suffering worse mental issues than her kid. Some days I wish I could kick, scream and swear like he does when life doesn't go my way! :p
  8. KTMom91

    KTMom91 Well-Known Member

    I'm sorry it was such a bad night. Hope things have calmed down for you today and difficult child. Hugs.
  9. Steely

    Steely Active Member

    I have been there many, many times, I am so sorry.
    Just out of curiosity has he been tested by a psychiatrist before? Has anyone mentioned to you that he might have a mood disorder, rather than ADHD?
    The reason I am asking is because often the behaviors he is displaying come from more of a mood disorder related issue rather than ADHD. However, when kids with mood disorders are given ADHD medications like Adderall, over time, their behavior gets worse.
    For Matt, my difficult child, his behavior would temporarily get better from something like Ritalin, and then after it wore off his behavior would slide into the depths of hell - typically after school, evenings, etc. We stayed on that type of roller coaster until we got him on a mood stabilizer type of medicine, rather than a stimulant. This is what it sounds like the hospital might have been suggesting???
    I would really re-think who is caring for his mental stability, beyond your pediatrician.
  10. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    It is going to take more than a visit or two for them to remember you and see that you need help. I strongly recommend calling every time he gets out of control like that. You need the paper trail to establish that the problems are really going on. I also think that a mood stabilizer might be helpful, but he needs a doctor who knows psychiatric medications to rx for him. NO pediatrician is really capable of rxing these medications - they just do not have the specialized training that is needed.
  11. Star*

    Star* call 911


    Hi ya! I am really sorry this turned into such a power struggle. Wow. I guess maybe I'm not going to be the popular vocie here - anyway here's my thoughts take it for what it's worth. Had boys - varying ages, and I used to be a HERE! NOW! Kinda Mom - Then I got to be a Please? Okay honey Mom, and FWIW? I finally ended up with a somehwere in the middle of them both and much happier kinda Mom.

    First of all - do you have a right to be safe? You absolutely do. So does your son. So naturally when playing around a bunch of older kids comes into play a ton of things goes through our minds. I respect your position on this completely and as the Mom of boys - I get it believe me I do. But when your kid is playing with bigger boys? It's a HUGE thing - HUGE to have your Mom not only call you back and be screaming in the phone, but then to come looking for you and scream at you across a field? Yeah - well if that had been any of my boys? They wouldn't have come either. Not only that - but the ribbing he probably was getting at that time from the older boys about his Mom being there? Tough. Then when you came across the field and 'DRUG' him by his shirt? Wow - then YOU created a power struggle. Had you drug ME by MY shirt? I'd probably hit you too. In this instance and it's my very humble opinion - I know that you are his Mom - but think about it for a minute - and think about it like this -

    WHAT if this had been any of YOUR friends doing the same thing to you? (yes I get it you are his MOM - certain things just should be and that's that) but - this became in a difficult child mind - a battle, a war - a power struggle. And I think it was a needless one. YOU were upset, YOU were scared, and you were frustrated. I think sometimes we get fed up to HERE with our kids especially our difficult child's that instead of walking away - we just reach out and touch someone and it's like YOU ARE GOING TO LISTEN TO ME, RIGHT NOW, RIGHT HERE, NO IF's, AN's, or BUTT's...and this Mom takes over us that normally wouldn't. Seriously - WHAT part of you would normally drive down the road holding a child that is trying to jump out of a car without stopping period, and continue driving? NEVER huh? WHY would you ever take that risk? (not judging - honestly swear I am not) but think about what happened that day. You drug him to the car in front of older boys, and you were angry. ANGRY as what? If you had been in control of your emotions? Would you have done the same thing? I doubt it. (I know so - no.) How do I know? I've been there.

    So where does it go from here? He's getting worse, you're getting worse. The house is in utter chaos. You're taking him by 911 for pity sake to the EMERGENCY ROOM and there is a coy psychiatrist that says "meay meay, meay meay meay meay" and (trying not to smack her) I've been there leave feeling defeated - and exhausted, and you look at the little boy in the chair and you think "I love you, I can't live with you, This has got to stop, I have no one in my corner and now THIS woman is telling me I could have handled the park thing better? THANKS a LOT lady....You have no idea." (actually I would have inserted something way more colorful for me too - but board rules and all)

    And it's not that at all - I'm not judging - I see - where I was...where you are, and I think - (exhales really hard) Wow if I really want to help her what do I tell her 'pat pat hugs?" pft? Heaaak yea - that should get you right back on track. You have a kid that is punching you in the face and a hug should help. Well it won't - so buckleup. You are going to have to find a way to get yourself some therapy to deal with your son. Plain and simple. If you can't afford it - get in the phone book and find County Mental Health and call them - they are all sliding scale fee based - and talking to someone is going to be better than NO ONE. Your local chapter of NAMI is good too. Other parents with the same kinds of mental health issues you are facing and sometimes? A break like shared babysitting. Also mental health should be able to point you in the direction of things like SUMMER CAMPS - SHADOWS - shadows in schools paid for by the school district - (NOT YOU) through your sons IEP. Check and see if your county has anything like Big Brothers, or YAPS (youth Advocacy Programs) it's like a big brother for at-risk boys/girls. Depending on where you live - you can also call your governors office and see if the STATE you live in has any programs to help you with placements like Residential Care programs or hospitals. What you were told at the hospital? Well? I think the more times you call 911? danger to self and others the more you make a paper trail and the more paper you have on your child? The quicker it gets you into family court in front of a judge. If you can get a judge to listen to you with a paper trail then you can file for a petition of incorrigibility - that gets you COURT ORDERED therapy/hospital - sometimes. There are services out there - but people keep their mouths shut because - if they didn't every kid with a bad report card would be going to Department of Juvenile Justice - by some parents standards. -

    Now as far as your handling of that park situation? Given the whole thing over again? Maybe you'd have done it the same way again. Or maybe you would have gotten there - beeped your horn - motioned for him to come to the car. When he got to the car - told him - Listen - You really scared me - so instead of 30 minutes - Now you've cut yourself to 15 - I'll sound the horn when you have 5 minutes UNLESS you can get over here on your own like a grown young man. If you're not over here to the car ---I'll be beeping the horn and your friends will here Mommy beeping the horn for you. Go on - Then let him go - you're there - you're watching (reading a book) and in 14 minutes - he doesn't show? Then you honk the horn - THEN it's on HIM if he's not at the car and on HIM if his buddies raz him - THEN when he gets in the car - NOTHING - say NOTHING. When you get back to the house - GIVE HIM TIME to decompress - Then later say something like - "Wanna talk to you about those older guys later okay?" and walk away even if he says "WHAT?" Just pretend like you couldn't have the time and say "I'm busy right this minute - no biggie -later." THEN later? Talk about the use of the F bomb, Let him know he worried you, How you don't agree with buddies 6 years older, and you think maybe it's time he got a cell phone of his own????? IF........and then drag out a chore chart - and talk about him doing some things to earn it and see how it goes - but one of the stipulations is no more F bombs and that may mean not hanging with older kids. and see how it goes in a month."

    Parenting a difficult child is NOT for changes day to day sometimes hour to hour. But you have to be able to swallow fear - throw on a near blank face - be flat/emotionless - they LOVE to see us get rialed - LOVE IT! -----and touching them -???? OH that's an invitation to no holds barred. But I still maintain - you drag ME to your car - and .......I'm 46....I'm not going to be pleasant either.

    There is a really good book I recommend a lot - How to talk so kids will listen and how to listen so kids will talk. If you can find it on Amazon? and have 15 minutes a week to dedicate to a chapter? Do it - it's the best book I ever read. swear....I didn't get it (as a gift) until my youngest was much older - but it helped me communicate effectively with him from the first day I got it. That and I went to counseling 2-3 times a week (no kidding)- My son was off the chart - he's 20 now and not living at home. But he was a dandy.

    I agree with HazOi about the stims - they could be making him very aggressive. But then again if no one will take him into a hospital on a baseline? How are you ever going to get a good medications diagnosis and tweak? I'f you can do it? I'd ask for a hospitalization and get him to baseline and find something out there for his sake and yours. You really sound like you could use a vacation. Wish I was closer - I'd take him for a week for ya - he sounds like our kind of dandy - lol. (sheeeeeeesh never thought I'd say that again) I've had peace for too long.

    Really - HUGS and calgon -
  12. Star*

    Star* call 911

    I also wanted to add - that I don't want you to think that I am judging you in any way. This isn't what this board is ever about or our help to each other. I don't want you to be angry or frustrated or think "Oh wow if you were here it would be different. You have no idea" Because you're right - I don't have any idea about your situation per se. I DO have some idea of what living with difficult child's is like; actually a lot of what it's like and how badly it hurts, and the last thing you need when it seems like your own kid is falling apart is your support group holding up mirrors. That's not what I'm about at all. THIS is honest, straightforward, if you've been doing it this way and it hasn't been working this far - maybe this is why type suggestions - That's all.

    As far as your child punching you in the face REGARDLESS of how escalated the situation was or what led to that point? My thought on punishment would be this - Taking away a weekend of privledges or gameboy for punching me in the face? Or a toy, or anything like that? Not nearly enough. So what is? At this point you say he's nine years old? He's very much old enough to understand what happens should he be arrested for physical violence. If it's manifested itself to you - and the consequence was the removal of (insert what you took away) then what happens when he gets angry at school and pounds a classmate? They (school) remove him from school/suspend him? My son LIVED for that chance. It was like the minute he found out suspension and permanent suspension were on the table? Wow he was a walking boxer. So you have to be sure that your son understands that this hitting and physical violence are a LOT more serious NOW and the consequences are EXTREME.

    I think I would find out from a local law enforcement or sheriff if there is a way to have him shown Department of Juvenile Justice or at the least a local jail cell. Beg for it because most will tell you - they don't have the insurance or find out from your therapist if this is possible (most have connections to jails et al) and allow him the scared straight treatment. He's playing in a big boys world, punching his Mother in the face - he should get the big boy treatment......sooner than later. Sounds harsh - and it is - but so is punching his Mom in the fact - no matter what lack of coping skills he has at his age and for his disability - HITTING is NEVER an option. Getting anger management skills through therapy? Yes - Hitting No. Seeing where he's going to end up if he doesn't get control over his anger? Yes - Removing weekend privledges? He couldn't care less. Trust me - These guys are experts at waiting things out.

    Also when I suggested therapy for you? It was not just because you lost control in the park - it's because you NEED someone to help you with HIM - these kids are smart and they always seem one step ahead of us. If you have an adult with therapeutic knowledge of the workings of these minds? It may just give you an insight as to what is going on - and keep you just a 1/2 step ahead - helps you level the playing field and for maybe just a part of the week - you get to be ( ) much ahead of his game. That makes you feel a little better - better than feeling like you are being outsmarted by a nine year old anyway. And you really should NOT be using your family, significant other or co-workers & friends to complain about your son (if you are) it alienates us from them and you end up isolated. Your therapist is your complaining buddy - once a week - you go in- blow it out your nose about how the kid is, how life is unfair, how awful the co-workers are - whatever - and then you plan strategy for the next week. It helps a TON. I hated it at first then got to where I looked forward to MY HOUR. It was ONE hour where someone just paid attention to ME - and helped ME - and listened to MY problems and nothing about was nice. Took some getting used to but it was helpful.

    So in closing here - do not ever think - you're being judged. I thought about this last night and wondered if you read this and though - OH great here I am needing help and this is what I get? Judged, criticized.....great. Not at all. Sometimes i guess I've been advocating for our kids for so long - that it's still very much a part of who I am more so than for the adult - so if it came off any other way? Not what I meant. You are a great Mom. If you were anything less than super? You wouldn't be here looking for help. Here to help - really, really --

    Hugs -