First new thread in a while....hoping for support.

[New Leaf]

Copa, I am really out of the loop and trying to catch up. So much has been going on in all of our lives. I am sorry for your troubles with your dear son, when I was last here on the regular, he was seeking treatment...........
I stated on another post that I know my two cannot come home, you replied that this is my place to stand, that I seemed to have gotten to a point of valuing myself. I am really not that strong dear friend. My own son has something to do with that stand, every time I drift off into thinking that maybe I could bring them home I remember Son lying on my bed in the fetal position crying after Tornados dramatic exodus. That stops me on that thought train of bringing them home. A visual reminder of the reality that ensues. There is no "normal" living with my two. The house becomes a chaotic whirling vortex of negative energy. It is unbearable.

questions for me, are now, what do we do after we have found this place to stand? Do we see our kids? How do we love them? Can we accept them into our sphere (I am not speaking of a spatial or physical sphere here?) How do we see them, as moral and spiritual people, with their own rights and obligations, without imposing our own?

Very good questions Copa. At first, I had a very difficult time seeing my kids. I had to collect myself, I was literally war torn and emotionally ravaged. They made no effort to see me. I was the enemy, the cold hearted biotch....who would dare throw her children and grandchildren out on the streets. Never mind the extreme circumstances and abusive treatment on their part........
So here is the thing. I will not be around forever to "rescue" my two. They have got to learn how to fend for themselves. Yes, it is hard to see them trip and fall, struggle so. But, living at home is unacceptable. They do not appreciate it, soon go back to their same old drugging tendencies, become more and more manipulative and downright resentful of everything. Unhealthy situation for all. So, they are out there. Tornado in temporary housing (again), hopefully this time they will make it work. I see them from time to time. I am not rescue granny anymore. I don't tell them how they should live. Yes, they openly use in front of the kids. I just tell the grands that they can make better choices when they grow up. That is heart wrenching to see my grands struggling with their parents choices.
Rain has been over the house a few times since hubs passed. I have had work done on the house and her new boyfriend has been working as laborer. It is part of Blossom and her husbands idea to try and reach out to their sister in hopes she will come back to the fold. They were visiting weekly, bringing canned goods to the park Rain stays at. She has recently gone MIA, supposedly with one of her old boyfriends who just got out of jail. The jilted boyfriend, who has been working at the house says he guesses he was just a bodyguard for awhile.......See, that's the part that confounds me. This outright using people.
It seems to be the hallmark of drug use. People become things, no exception, mothers, fathers, sisters. Addiction is a terribly selfish beast.
I have to say it was extremely uncomfortable to be near my daughter knowing what her lifestyle is. Having her here, then go back to the park. She would speak of "showering" in the public restroom in the toilet stall, with a bucket. My stomach churns writing that. What kind of mother, sends her daughter back to that? The kind of mother that knows there are other options for her daughter to get back on her feet. The kind of mother who has tried countless times to help, only to have it thrown back in my face. I love my daughter dearly, but her lifestyle choices have given her the consequences she lives with. She has the capability to rise above, as we all do. That is what I look to and pray for. I have learned through many attempts to intercede that it doesn't work. So, I have to have faith and rely on God and her God given abilities to choose better for herself.

Is all of this, for us, a defense? Are we walking their walk too? Is one way better or more authentic or more defensible than another? Is there a power play at work? By whom? To what extent or another are we imposing control, as well as them

Profound and maybe unanswerable questions, Copa. A defense, in my case, yes. I have gained strength in the stance that my son has a right to a sense of peace and security in our home. There is none of that with his sisters here. I see that for myself as well, I have value and worth and wish to live in peace.
I feel in my case, that with them here, yes, I was walking their walk, unwillingly.They eventually just use my love for them to do whatever they please in my home. Okay maybe it's not even that? Am I taking it too personally? Maybe they will just do what they will do regardless of where they are at? Whatever the case may be, I have to decide what I am able to tolerate, especially now that I am alone. We did set rules, every one broken. Many times we tried to make it work. I have absolutely no control over another human being. But, I can say no more in my home. It is not healthy for any of us. It does not mean I do not love them, or I have given up on them, I came to realize that I am not the one who will help them. That doesn't mean that it is a forever thing either, the end of the story is not written. I do not judge others for trying different solutions on this path. Everyone has their own unique situation.

These are questions I am only now asking, having spent the bulk of the last decade hiding, running, hysterically denying responsibility, guilt and any control what so ever--especially with respect to myself.

Me too. Hiding, running, all of it. I guess it comes down to staring reality in the face and asking myself what can I tolerate? I didn't feel comfortable in my own home. My two weren't doing anything to help out, it was like we were obligated to take them in and there was no reciprocity. Expectation. Hands up all the time, for a hand out. Entitlement. I guess we have expectations too, follow rules, help out, clean up. With them, came their S o's, party friends and street people, episodes of chaos and violence. I had to not only take a stand, but stand up. Stand up for myself.

What do we want for them, that we really have the right to want or ask? By throwing them out or keeping them away (I have done both)--do I seek the easy way, to turn my back on him? At what cost to myself?

I do not believe that is the easy way, or that you are turning your back on him. It is not easy, none of this is easy. It is hard having them home, then not, not knowing where and how they are.
Throwing them out? Well, Copa, there is only so much a person can take. Looking back at my two, it was if it was a game of "how much will they take?" The more they disrespected boundaries, the more they tested, the more they disrespected us........
I believe that we have a right to ask our adult children to behave with decency and respect, if they are to live in our homes. If they were not our children, tenants, we would impose rules and have expectations. Love and familial status does not negate responsibility.
My d cs will do what they do, until it does not serve them anymore. I love them dearly and have hope and faith that they will find their way. But, I will no more be a "thing" that they will have their way with, be taken advantage of and mistreated. I believe I do a great disservice to not only myself, my son and my home by allowing that, I do a great dis-service to them. They would rather party than work. They would watch hubs and I go off to work every day, then lay around the house, not pick up after themselves, etc, etc. They snubbed the value and conventionalism of working hard to earn their way, but saw no problem with taking from their parents who worked.
There is something very wrong with that picture.
The reflections on this post are from my experience. I have no intention of imposing my views on others, because each and every one of us has to find our own way on this journey.
I hope and pray for peace for all of us in this holiday season.
(((HUGS)))
Leafy

 

[Feeling Sad]

Greetings, dear sister, Leafy! It is so nice to hear from you. I agree with both, you and Copa, completely.

I hate this expression...but I will use it anyway. 'As one get older' you find that things you used to tolerate you find, not so much intolerable, but rather, that you do not HAVE TO tolerate.

I do not know if it was my brother's death, or seeing myself and FEELING myself getting older. Yes, I can cling onto my guilt and anger. To what expense? I feel that my health has been negatively impacted for years...and years...and, sadly, years... Can I get this time back? Have I enjoyed feeling all of this pain and turmoil?

Leafy, I stayed strong, like you, for my youngest son. When I didn't seem to care about my own safety, my son's safety stood as a beacon to remind me to make the safest decision. I had disassociated, or blocked out my fear since childhood, but as a mother, you can clearly see the fear in their eyes.

This is possibly the worst Thanksgiving ever, but here I am. My brother, ill sister, and parents are gone. I drove up the coast and met my son, who is going to school up north, in an idyllic beach town...Morro Bay. He is still struggling with his depression and casually threatens suicide. It breaks my heart, but I am helpless.

For 3 days he would get mad and say that he hated me and that he was leaving. I would sadly shuffle off someplace in town, blinking back my tears, like a sad robot trying to blend into the throes of happy holiday shoppers WITH their families. Sunglasses aided me in this pitiful ruse. He would then text me, "Would you like to meet for lunch?" It has become the sad and disfunctional 'dance' we dance. After our last parting, he always texts me that he should never treat me that way and that he is sorry. I then texts me that he loves me.

I cannot tell you how draining this experience is to me. It is as if I was dog-paddling to stay alive. With my ordeals and sorrow, I am able to just keep part of my face above water. But, then, I grab my son, emotionally, into the folds of my struggling arms, and continue to try to stay above water.

The analogy is not about death, but rather emotional death. We are all trying to have reasonably sane, safe, and somewhat happy lives. When do WE become important...and worth saving?

He tells me not to come up to meet. He tells me that he is not feeling well. But, he is my son, so again it is 'the moth to the flame'. After all, isn't it the holidays?

Each year is going by faster. I feel that I notice this fact even more because of the holiday crafts, or rather, seasonal crafts that we make in class...winter crafts as opposed to Christmas crafts.

I am tired. I am now alone in my house. I do not have the luxury of having my homeless schizophrenic son back now that my youngest son in living in his own house in town. I do not know where he is. I filed a restraining order. My heart literally constantly aches for him.

If I did have that choice, sadly, it would very well be the moth to the flame...literally because I could be killed by him in a psychotic rage.

So, I sit here alone. Boundaries. Yes, boundaries are healthy, both emotionally and physically. Their familial ties do not give them the privilege to take these rights away. One day, we will be gone. Then what will they do?

I would be considered a lousy teacher if I did not daily train for independence in my students. I am arming them with useful strategies and intelligence to meet the world head on. Why should we do less for our own precious children?

We are compelled to set up boundaries and keep reasonable expectations of them while they are near us or living someplace that we own. No less should be tolerated.

 

[Childofmine]

Happy Thanksgiving,

I am reminded again that the desire is that he be in some way productive.

Is this really too much to ask, to hope for, as we KNOW, we are CERTAIN, that people are not meant to do nothing, sit and take drugs, drink, play video games, whatever they do to dull their senses, pass the time, and the months and years go by? We know this. But when a person seems not to care, what do we do? We can no more "make" them be productive than we can move the earth. I believe all we can do is step aside. Stand back. Let it go and let it be. Things will either stay the same, get worse or get better. Either way, we have removed ourselves, and it cannot be our fight. It is their fight or no fight at all, because people, grown people, have a right to choose. And then to live with their own choices.

We did set rules, every one broken. Many times we tried to make it work. I have absolutely no control over another human being. But, I can say no more in my home. It is not healthy for any of us. It does not mean I do not love them, or I have given up on them, I came to realize that I am not the one who will help them.

I could have written every word of this. My thoughts and feelings exactly. Oh, how humbling and life-changing to get to this very point that knowing this...we stand aside. It is profound, the work, the journey, to get to this point. It is both the greatest and the most wrenching realizations I have ever had in my life, to realize I can DO NOTHING. Nothing. I am completely powerless. If they are to change, it will have nothing to do with me. I love the greystone analogy. Becoming nothing in their lives, for a time, as immobile as a stone, that, to me, is the ultimate setting-aside of ourselves, in the service of one we love so very much.

When do WE become important...and worth saving?

When we start valuing ourselves as much, and then just a tad more, than we do our precious children. 51%/49%.

Yes. More and more people here in the USA view marijuana benignly. That it is not addictive. Or dangerous. My son calls it "just a plant" not acknowledging all of the genetic modifications that have been made on this "plant" and chemical alterations as well that have likely been made to weed bought on the street. And yet he does recognize that he is addicted to it--despite calling it non-addictive.

I wish everyone could see the damage we see being done to real live human beings by marijuana. I detest it.

There is no "normal" living with my two. The house becomes a chaotic whirling vortex of negative energy. It is unbearable.

Yes. And thank goodness it was unbearable. Or you could not have done what you did to find some peace that you so richly deserve.

Having her here, then go back to the park. She would speak of "showering" in the public restroom in the toilet stall, with a bucket. My stomach churns writing that. What kind of mother, sends her daughter back to that? The kind of mother that knows there are other options for her daughter to get back on her feet. The kind of mother who has tried countless times to help, only to have it thrown back in my face. I love my daughter dearly, but her lifestyle choices have given her the consequences she lives with.

It is almost unbearable to see these things, the shower you describe, my son's heavy soaking-wet blanket that I loaded into my trunk to go wash and bring back to him after he slept on a bench all night in the rain. I will never forget, and it comes rushing back, the sheer agony of washing that blanket, drying it, and taking it back to him so he could sleep on a bench outside, 1 mile from my 3000 square foot house that was empty except for me. Addiction is the cruelest of masters. It bends them, and it bends us, until we are completely broken. And then we can move aside, step aside, stand back, stand down, become a greystone, become nothing in their lives...so they can have a chance to find their own lives. I came to see it this way. Over years and years and failure after failure.

I love all of you, and I hope on this Thanksgiving Day that you have joy, peace, serenity and hope for the future. There is always hope. Every situation is different. There is no right or wrong here. Regardless we are all here together.

 

[Copabanana]

Everybody, I am grateful this Thanksgiving to have each of you, and all of us together. Today and everyday we all have each other, and ourselves.

 

[Albatross]

I am reading along, Copa.

It is so hard to have them around us, isn't it? When we can see up close they are not yet the men or women we feel they need to be.

And so hard to not have them around, when we see them going off the rails and frightened that we are losing any chance of preventing a hard fall.

There is no right answer, other than maybe this:

I guess for right now, this moment, I will focus on loving him and trying not to worry so much.

This is what I aspire to do as well, Copa. In my case, my (over) involvement (which is to say any involvement other than benign encouragement and gentle suggestions from afar) does more harm than good. Perhaps not harm, but certainly prevents growth.

I am glad your son is home and glad you both are focused on the love you share.