Hello

[200Meters]

Thanks RN0441!

Oldest's ladyfriend says that Youngest seems very much at ease. When he needed to withdraw the money that he had received for his bar mitzvah and which we put away until he turned 18 (which was last November) to pay off the goodfellas the last time he was extremely nervous & on edge. But now he seems at ease. Go figure.

 

[Copabanana]

Go figure.

Dear 200Meters.

I listened to the Cat Stevens song over and over and read on Wikipedia how his life has gone. Thank you.

You are doing great!

It sounds like youngest seems comfortable at the moment in his skin and life.

This is a common state of affairs with our children who bring us here. That we are the ones who do the suffering, for the most part. We suffer because they cause us to suffer with them. They want us to feel their distress and to solve it for them. Or we suffer because of how they live. When they suffer not at all.

If I had to describe the focus of this website it is that. To learn to not suffer so much for them. To learn to not suffer so much at their hand, or due to their influence, or due to a lack of sufficient boundaries from them and the effects of their lives on us.

When we come here often we have inserted ourselves into their lives. To steer. To guide. To protect. To control.

When they fight us, ignore us, resist us, insult us, we get more and more distressed. Then we realize we are outside of our own lane. These are adults. They have a right to autonomy.

But we do too. Autonomy in our homes. Autonomy over our money. Autonomy for our minds and spirits.

So, that younger son seems to be at peace, at rest, on pause, is a great opportunity for you to do as you are doing, to recalibrate your focus away from him, to you, your wife, your home, your lives and faith, to reorient to your life that is doing just fine, thank you.

To leave him be. For now.

 

[200Meters]

This is a common state of affairs with our children who bring us here. That we are the ones who do the suffering, for the most part. We suffer because they cause us to suffer with them. They want us to feel their distress and to solve it for them. Or we suffer because of how they live. When they suffer not at all.

If I had to describe the focus of this website it is that. To learn to not suffer so much for them. To learn to not suffer so much at their hand, or due to their influence, or due to a lack of sufficient boundaries from them and the effects of their lives on us.

Well said.

I don't know how much we can leave Youngest be. He phoned me on Sunday and said that his probation/welfare officer in Jerusalem wanted to see him at 13:30 yesterday afternoon. (We are due back in Jerusalem Magistrate Court tomorrow.) I drove up to where he, Oldest & Oldest's Ladyfriend live, picked them up & drove back to Jerusalem. The probation/welfare officer will recommend that he go to a day center (sort of a non-residential, out patient alternative to the hostel) in Jerusalem. If the judge approves, Youngest will go for an interview. If they accept him, he will have to move back home & Mrs. 200Meters & I will become his guardians again. For an initial period (how long this is depends on him) he would be under house arrest conditions. Meaning that either Mrs. 200Meters or I would have to drive him to the day center every morning & hand him over. We would also have to pick him up and take him home and one of us would have to stay with him. We're not sure how long the day is at the day center & when one of us would have to go get him. This could be a problem work-wise for us. This also means that Mrs. 200Meters and I could not go out together, even to synagogue on Shabbat (the Sabbath). We could sign someone else up as a guardian & this person could babysit Youngest while we are out.

(Aside #1: Why can' Youngest go to a day center near where Oldest & Ladyfriend live and continue staying with them? To mind him under house arrest conditions - Oldest & Ladyfriend can manage that. But to be responsible for taking Youngest to a day center at 07:30 (say) and picking him up at 15:00 (say), especially given their lack of a normal car, is beyond them.)

After meeting with the probation/welfare officer, I drove them back to where they live & then drove back to Jerusalem. I used up a whole tank of gas yesterday.

If we don't let him come back home, the alternative would be back to the remand center (at a large prison off towards Tel Aviv) where he was before going to his brother and he schlepped back and forth every day.

That is where we are now.

I will keep everyone posted.

 

[Copabanana]

That is where we are now.

Dear 200meters. Thank you very much for the update. The supervision situation sounds confining but in my experience, and from learning what I have being here on this forum, there is seldom a way to go through this that does not cost something. (I guess, life is that way.) How is Mrs. 200meters doing through all of this?

It sounds, too, like youngest is wanting to cooperate at least to some extent. He could have blown off the meeting with the probation officer. That he is working with you, and them, is something.

I hope very much that this plan works out and that things progress to be a little bit easier. How is youngest's attitude towards you and his mother? Does he seem to understand the gravity of the situation and to recognize the burdens he has placed upon the family? Also. I am reading again through your posts and I don't see reference to any serious mood or anger problems with your youngest. If that's the case, that could be good news indeed.

Take care.

 

[200Meters]

[Monday, July 15]

Hey folks...

Things have taken a turn for the unpleasant, to put it mildly.

Youngest had that interview at a day center in Jerusalem. He sat with two staff members for almost two hours and got a good vibe. They asked him why he was so unkeen on the hostel and he replied that he had a home and didn't need another one. That was nice to hear, I think. When I spoke to one of the staff members a few days later, she told me that they were really undecided, that Youngest was borderline and that they couldn't decide and may invite him back for a second interview. She said that they were unsure whether Youngest had really internalized the severity of what he had done and of his situation, and whether he was truly ready to make a change in his life and try to move forward. I spoke to her again this past Thursday (July 11) and did my level best to sell Youngest and encourage her to at least invite him for a second interview. (The day at this day center is from 08:00-15:00. We would have to have him there by 08:15, after which time no one is admitted, and pick him up at 15:00 and take him back home, where, at least initially, he would still be under house arrest & still have to wear the electronic ankle thinggie. Upon good behavior, these restrictions could / would be relaxed.)

That was last Thursday. Then came last Friday...

At around 06:00, I start getting WhatsApps and phone calls. (WhatsApp is very big here in Israel.) Youngest and Oldest had a fight, literally. Apparently, Youngest had been on his brothers case and was getting personal & nasty about it. This was not the first time he had acted this way but whereas before, Oldest would go into his room & cry, this time he snapped. (Aside #1: Oldest, for all his issues, is emotional & soft on the inside. Youngest has a cold streak that Mrs. 200Meters and I have never liked. He is also harder / tougher than his brother.) Oldest's ladyfriend separated them and then told Oldest, "Your brother can't leave this apartment. You can; go to my brother and cool off." Good for her. (Aside #2: Oldest & Ladyfriend recently moved from the new-town-that-is-like-a-giant-construction-project where they had been living to an older, established town not far away that is Ladyfriend's home town and where her Mom & 2 brothers live. Getting all the permits & approvals for Youngest to move with them was a real chore.) Oldest went off to cool off. Youngest, in a very angry state, called the Prison Service, which monitors those under house arrest with ankle thinggies and said that he didn't want to be there any longer & would they please (I really doubt that he said 'Please') come get him. Which they did. Youngest was taken to the remand facility at a prison very close to the one he was in before he was placed under house arrest with his brother (back on May 2). Oldest & Ladyfriend spent their first weekend together, just the two of them since May 2. I think Youngest's continued presence with hem was affecting their relationship & not in a good way. Now they have to finish unpacking from the move & then go out & find jobs, which was one of the reasons why they moved in the first place.

Yesterday morning (Sunday is a work day here), I phoned the prison where we were told Youngest is and he is there. Apparently they could hold him for 72 hours & then they have to bring him before a judge. He is, after all, supposed to be under house arrest by court order. Oh, I forgot to add that last Friday morning as all his was happening, I tried to WhatsApp the pd only to have him inform us that he and his family are out of the country on vacation. So yesterday morning I also phoned the Jerusalem Public Defender's Office. They said they hadn't heard anything yet but would look into it.

I spoke to the Jerusalem Public Defender's Office again this morning. They were in contact with the pd abroad and sent another pd to represent Youngest at today's hearing. I spoke to the new temporary pd right before the hearing (clear across town & neither Mrs. 200Meters or I could have made it in time given that we received zero advance notice). He said that most likely Youngest would be remanded into custody until his previously scheduled hearing for a week from tomorrow. I am waiting for a call back from the new temporary pd to find out exactly how it went.

At that hearing next week, on July 23, the probation officer is due to submit her recommendation about whether or not Youngest should go to that day center should it want him but after Youngest's latest stunt we can't see that happening. I asked the probation officer a while back what the alternative to the day center would be if it, like the hostel before it, doesn't work out. She said (immediately) that the next and sole remaining alternative to prison would be a closed residential facility (as opposed to the semi-open hostel). Youngest would, I think, vehemently object to an 8-9 month (say) stint at such a place and prefer prison instead.

(Aside #3: I asked the pd a while back how much time Youngest could actually get if it gets to that and he said as little as 3 months given all sorts of factors. Youngest may stupidly decide that he would rather do three months in the hoosegow & not however long it would be in a closed residential facility no matter how much having a prison record would eff up his future 'cause he can barely see tomorrow let alone the future. The pd explained to him why prison would be such a wrong choice for him for all kinds of reasons not least of which is that if gets in trouble again, which will certainly happen, the authorities will throw the book at him and treat him with far more severity than he is getting treated with now as a young first-time offender.)

[Tuesday, July 16]

Well, I spoke to the Jerusalem Public Defender's Office this morning. Youngest's regular pd is back in the country. There is a hearing (in Jerusalem Magistrate Court, as usual), tomorrow at 13:00, on the main file against him, i.e. theft and breaking-and-entering, not his remand conditions. Mrs. 200Meters & I will go. (Oldest & Ladyfriend do not have to come & I believe they are now out of the picture.) We want to see him. I have reserved a time slot for us at 08:45 Monday morning to visit him in the pokey. There are set hours both for visiting & for reserving a slot. We can always decide not to go if he makes it abundantly clear tomorrow that he does not want to see us.

We are very frustrated & feel like we're on a roller coaster. What the hell is wrong with that kid? The prison he is at now has a psychiatric clinic. I wonder if that is coincidental.

Why "200Meters"? Because 200 meters is (roughly) the boundary between light and darkness in the open sea. I have this recurring vision where I'm treading water at that boundary. I can see the light above me but know that I'll never reach it. Below me is the abyss. I keep treading water and just manage not to sink into the abyss and be crushed.

I feel like I should rename myself 220Meters.

Thanks for listening.

...treadtreadtread...

 

[200Meters]

Speak o' the devil...

No sooner had I posted than Youngest phoned me from the remand center he is at. I asked him what happened last Friday and he simply said that he & his brother had fought. I pressed him & he said that he didn't remember the details. As a great person once said, yeah, right. He then had the temerity to ask me to ask the pd to ask the judge tomorrow to send him to house arrest at home with us. I think that is highly unlikely, to put it as mildly as I can. I told him what the pd had WhatsApped me, that tomorrow's discussion is about the main file, not his custody conditions but he paid no attention. He also asked that we bring him a carton of cigarettes when we visit him next week. That is sheer te...no, the word is chutzpah. We'll see what happens tomorrow.

 

[200Meters]

Well, we were in court today...again. The Prison Service brought Youngest (who looked OK) in in leg irons. As often as I have to see him that way I don't think that I'll ever get used to it. The discussion today was fairly short. The day center in Jerusalem wants to interview him again, tomorrow.The Prison Service will take him to and from the interview. I imagine that when the day center staff sees him being brought in by the Prison Service instead of us, they will want to know why (assuming they don't know already; I imagine the probation officer knows and if that is the case, she would have told them). Until the court decides what to do with Youngest, Youngest will stay in remand. Next Tuesday, the 23rd, the probation officer will submit her recommendation on what to do with him. She'll do one of three things: Endorse sending him to the day center assuming the center wants him, not endorse sending him to the day center assuming the center wants him, or recommend something else because the day center doesn't want him. I will keep y'all posted.

 

[AppleCori]

Wow, what a mess your youngest has made!

Are you going to let him move in with you?

 

[200Meters]

Well...

Youngest had his repeat interview at that Jerusalem day center today. While they were not exactly thrilled by his having a fight with his brother, they were impressed that he didn't just bolt, that he called the powers-that-be and asked them to come get him.The center is prepared to have him on a trial basis for three months, after which he will be reassessed based on his conduct, progress, attitude, etc. This means that he would have to return home, initially under house arrest conditions, with or without the electronic ankle thinggie, and that one of us would have to take him to the day center at 08:00 (but not later than 08:15) and pick him up at 15:00 and take him home & be with him 24/7. Upon his good behavior these conditions might be relaxed. I've exchanged Whats-Apps with the pd. The day center has a new group starting this Tuesday morning. We're due in court on Tuesday morning & the since the pd says that the discussion cannot be brought forward, Youngest might have to miss a few days. The day center says that's OK. Just in case, I called the phone company & had them close the special dedicated line for the electronic ankle thinggie at Oldest & Ladyfriend's flat and move the line to our flat in our Jerusalem 'burb. A techncian will come early Monday morning (07:45-08:30) to install the line.

Wow, what a mess your youngest has made!

Yup.

Are you going to let him move in with you?

I don't see that we have a choice. If he is going to be offered this chance to get his life back on track, how can we not help him?

I'm still in shock here.

I will keep everyone posted.

 

[200Meters]

I said

Next Tuesday, the 23rd, the probation officer will submit her recommendation on what to do with him. She'll do one of three things: Endorse sending him to the day center assuming the center wants him, not endorse sending him to the day center assuming the center wants him, or recommend something else because the day center doesn't want him.

To our surprise, the probation officer chose door #2. Even though the day center is willing to have Youngest on a trial basis for 3 months, the probation officer thinks that Youngest is bamboozling everybody (but she can see through his sordid little game!) and should remain in custody and avail himself of the rehabilitative services that the good folks at the Israel Prison Service can offer. (Y'all realize that I'm editorializing a little, OK, more than a little, because I'm a little miffed, OK, I'm more than a little miffed.) The prosecutor enthusiastically backed up the probation officer's report. I know that Youngest is not an angel but he is hardly a demon either. The pd was great.

The judge asked Youngest directly about his tiff with his brother and asked him what he would do if he has a tiff with us. Youngest said he wouldn't. Her honor asked how he knew, i.e. what the difference was. It took Youngest a while but he eventually got around to saying that the difference was that as opposed to sitting around gathering dust and going stir crazy, he would be in therapy / treatment at the day center. He actually spoke well.

The judge ordered the probation officer to evaluate us (Mrs. 200Meters & moi) to see if we can be guardians for Youngest while he would be under house arrest with us and have an electronic ankle thinggie. I am not holding my breath. We don't like her and never have. I am trying to contact her but nothing she nor her office's secretary seem to be answering their phones.) Technically / physically, the apartment is wired & ready to go.

We are back in court on Wednesday August 7 at 12:00.

If Youngest ends up in prison (for a first-offense crime against property), he will emerge a more hardened criminal delinquent than he already is. If the probation officer thinks he can undergo any meaningful rehab / treatment while in the slammer, she is deluding herself, badly. If you want a person to feel they have something to gain, then give them something to lose. Youngest knows that he is being offered chance to start setting his life in order. So he's not had his Saul-on-the-road=to-Damascus moment, bfd. That will come in time (hopefully). Why would the probation officer sabotage this chance for him?

...Grumblegrumblegrumble...

Life feels like this right now.

Thanks for listening.

 

[Copabanana]

I am not sure I understand. Is it this:

The probation officer is recommending prison for a first property offense. The prosecutor, of course, is thrilled. The judge, however, is exploring the option of letting him come home for house arrest, with ankle bracelet, with the ability that he leave each day to go to the day center, for therapy/treatment?

That there is at least the possibility that the judge will override the probation officer?

We will pray.

The probation officer sabotages his chance because this is what many of them see as their role. I worked in prison many, many years and this was the outlook of most custodial staff, and many professional staff, too. A certain personality type is attracted to this power over people, for their own personal reasons. I think the judge understands this. The judge holds all of the cards here. I don't think that she would have brought this option up if she wasn't prepared to order it. It is a very good thing that youngest stepped up and advocated for himself.

 

[Crayola13]

I didn't know Israel was this tough on crime. In the US, this offense would be considered petty and minor. This is really surprising.

 

[200Meters]

I am not sure I understand. Is it this:

The probation officer is recommending prison for a first property offense. The prosecutor, of course, is thrilled. The judge, however, is exploring the option of letting him come home for house arrest, with ankle bracelet, with the ability that he leave each day to go to the day center, for therapy/treatment?

That there is at least the possibility that the judge will override the probation officer?

I think you got it.

The same probation officer recommended against Youngest's going to house-arrest-with-ankle-thinggie at Oldest's & Ladyfriend's and was overruled. So if she's overruled here it wouldn't be the first time. The sheer are-you-kidding-me nature of her claim will work against her. We hope.

We will pray.

Thank you. We will take all the help we can get.

The probation officer sabotages his chance because this is what many of them see as their role. I worked in prison many, many years and this was the outlook of most custodial staff, and many professional staff, too. A certain personality type is attracted to this power over people, for their own personal reasons. I think the judge understands this. The judge holds all of the cards here. I don't think that she would have brought this option up if she wasn't prepared to order it. It is a very good thing that youngest stepped up and advocated for himself.

Your analysis is spot-on as the Brits say.

I didn't know Israel was this tough on crime.

Neither did we.

We are going to visit Youngest in the pokey on Friday morning. He calls us every day. He sounds frustrated but otherwise well enough.

I will keep everyone posted.

 

[overcome mom]

Reading your posts is like reliving my life with my adopted son. We went through many of the same situations that you have gone through. He cut off his ankle bracelet and then realized what he had done and called his probation officer . The probation officer was not happy, even though he called within 20 minutes of cutting it off and locked him up.

Youngest, in a very angry state, called the Prison Service, which monitors those under house arrest with ankle thinggies and said that he didn't want to be there any longer & would they please (I really doubt that he said 'Please') come get him. Which they did

This also hit me because my son has had similar behavior. I think it gets to the core of why he gets in trouble. It is the impulsivity of his actions. I think the stress of whatever just gets to them. They are going to do the first things that comes to their minds that they think will relieve the stress, even if it is destructive in the long term.
We tried many things when my son was young to give him time to "mature" and not get a criminal record as an adult. We live in a fairly small community where I knew many of the people involved from the judges, to the prosecuting attorney and police. When he was younger they really did work with us to help him. (I did find that the more money you have to place him in residential treatment and hire attorney's the more they work with you.) I would like to tell you that he has turned the corner, but he has not. I really don't regret trying to help him when he was younger 16-18. How were we suppose to know at that time it wasn't going to work? We had people tell us that we should just let him suffer the consequences. My feeling is that he did have consequences. He was locked up many times. When he was in residential treatment (3x's) he was not able to live at home and couldn't go anywhere on his own. I agree with you that prison is no place for anyone that you want to try and change their behavior.
Your son is still young and he may mature. What I wish I would have done when my son was younger was to not feel guilty for not being a "better parent" and taking personal responsibility for his actions. I think that my behavior in his younger years may have given him the impression that he was not wholly responsible for his actions. I know all these court dates are very stressful . Wishing you a few minutes of peace and happiness.

 

[200Meters]

Reading your posts is like reliving my life with my adopted son.

Oy!

I think it gets to the core of why he gets in trouble. It is the impulsivity of his actions.

Yup.

Their impulsivity is a curse.

Although, the staff at the day center was impressed that he didn't just bolt.

I agree with you that prison is no place for anyone that you want to try and change their behavior.

It is amazing how many people don't get this.

I know all these court dates are very stressful.

Nahhhh...

Wishing you a few minutes of peace and happiness.

That's why we have the hounds. We love them dawgs.

 

[Nomad]

Impulsivity.

I recall WELL when our adopted daughter was young , I couldn’t believe how impulsive she was. Even her psychiatrist was amazed. No millisecond of thought prior to an action. Maybe a fraction of a nano second?

Even today as a young woman with medications and therapy it’s not much better. It’s gone from a fraction of a nano second to two or three seconds?!?!

I have a friend with a bipolar sister. After decades of extreme difficulties, she did better with this (Impulsivity) by recalling painful past difficulties. She was about 48 years of age when she did better. Sigh.

As a young mother I didn’t even know such a thing existed...at least not to this extent. Sigh.

 

[200Meters]

We met with the probation officer this morning ahead of our court date on Wednesday. She kept going back to our meeting three months ago in which we said that we were not keen on Youngest coming back home under house arrest. We kept saying that the difference is that as opposed to his sitting around gathering dust (3 months ago), he would (now) be at the day center in Jerusalem getting therapy, etc.

I'll update everyone after court.

 

[Copabanana]

She kept going back to our meeting three months ago

I'm sorry but this is very wrong. She wants the worst possible outcome for him. And for you, too. This woman has got personal problems. It's one thing to check this out, with an open mind, check out an apparent inconsistency. But to persevere to hold you to it, without opening to the possibility that conditions, emotions, attitudes had changed? No.

 

[RN0441]

Just got caught up. Good luck and let us know how it goes.

 

[200Meters]

We are waaaaaaitinnngggg in the corridor opposite the courtroom. The case was called for 12:00. It is now 14:51 and we are still here...YAWN...

I'll keep y'all posted.