I think it's time to cut off all ties to my oldest...but scared to do so...

[Smithmom]

Made me cry too. Beautiful. We can only pray that he takes it to heart.

Took a lot of courage and strength to do that. Stay strong. Focus on the family at home. Do games nights and lots of family activities to strengthen the family. The happy memories you make now will carry you through the years ahead.

One day at a time.

 

[ksm]

Beautiful!
,

 

[BusynMember]

Those office course are good ideas. Move on thr best you can. But the trauma of sexual abuse will never go away without good therapy. This issue is too bivgfor us to do it ourselves. Therapists who understand this particular violation know how to help the child talk about it and cope with it and if not thoroughly addressed, it hangs in there's for life. It can even, and often is, forgotten by the conscuous memory only to come back in bits and pieces as night terrors, flashebacks and inability to form intimacy or even enjoy sex as adults. Yet the brain, as in dissasociative identity disorder, can fool and wothout clear memories they may forget who did it and think it was Dad. My kids don't remember the acts of this child ( he was 13 and he was six years older) but we keep the truth going although we rarely discuss it.

Sexual abuse often causes different degrees of disassociation. It is a tremdous betrayal and violation, moreso if it is family as it often is. Usually is.

My husband and I learned a lot from the psychologist who specialized in child sexual abuse.

This is a seriously scary behavior from a brother to his siblings and they usually threaten the victims to get them to comply and not tell on them. This boy had a knife, said he was the real devil and that he would burn the house down and kill us all if they said one word. They believed him. Did I mention he played with fire around them too?

If you want to see Oldest in crowded places, for yourself, do it but you dont need to tell the kids. And the kids have not been safe with him around and in my opinion need to finally feel safe from him.

There is never proof that an offender will stop. In the future, if embracing him is modeled and the kids see it, they may feel they must accept him. He may well harm a grandchild. It is likely he hurt kids on the street/vulnerable kids in school. Ours did. He also killed two of our animals and my daughter saw him trying to strangle a neighbor cat. He dropped the cat when my daughter showed up and screamed. But she was afraid to tell us.

When this boy was taken to a residential lockdown for young offenders he tried to offend again, even with all the help and people watching him.

I am not a psychologist and dont know if sex offenders of many family members can be helped. It was explained to us as a compulsion. They get pleasure sexually from it. Now I was also told that you can never be sure they wont do it again even if they get help and say the right thing. The reoffend rate is high.

At any time before the adoption was severed we could have reengaged with him but we made our own decision to let our younger two heal in peace.

Later on in residential the boy admitted he had been offending on younger kids since he was five. He himself has no memory of being abused but he was s foster child and in his case most likely he probably was. But that sad fact did not make him safe just like some killers had sad lives but that didnt make them safe in society. When the boy was asked why he did these things he said I dont know. When asked if he missed us he just said he wanted his toys.

I fear for his children. He was so good ay hiding what he did.

All this babble from me doesnt mesn that you should do what we did. But I do think very strongly that he needs to stay away from the other kids. The crime of sexual abuse is a severe violation of snother. I think only murder is worse.

Do get therapy for all. You and me are parents and we dont have a clue how to make it better, how much to talk about it (or not,) or how to react about it. The help we got made us able to deal with it yet move on in a healthy way. My two babies whom it happened to are doing great now. But it might not have gone that way. You and hub need help in order to process the shock and make informed decisions that work for you. This is one situation in my opinion nobody should guess how to deal with it alone. It will not just go away if you take them to Disney World.

I am curious about one thing. I believe from adopting several kids that nature trumps nurture. Was your Oldest childs biological father a shady, abusive guy? Do the other kids have a different father? I read that kids BORN TO criminal parents can and often do inherit the personality traits to have a higher chance of being a criminal too. It isnt always true. My youngest son is an angel and his birthmother had to relinquish five kids and was a bad drug addict and Sonic is very kind and loving/no drugs at 25. But I do believe that often that DNA shapes our kids, even in a loving home, more than we do.

Do your best to heal. Love and light! Hugs!!!

 

[Despairing Mom]

But I will say this: I think this is true what SWOT says. That your victimized child could, even would, see any contact with their abuser-brother as a message that their welfare and their feelings are not so important to you. By turning away and going forward you are modeling to them a path forward.

I totally agree. It's extremely important for Annie to take her son to the police station ASAP. Her youngest child needs to know he is believed and horrific crimes against him are unacceptable.

 

[BusynMember]

My son at 13 was on the state list of sexual predators. He no longer is, which scares me, but he was a minor when he was convicted. If he is still at it, and he has been at it since age five but never got caught until with us, then his record is clean at least since a certain age...not sure what age.

Your son if turned in and indicted (minevwas found guilty at 13) will be on the sexual abuse list. Morally I feel you must turn him in so he can not offend against others. But the rsmifications are strong. And your other kids will probably be talked to and even examined for evidence. Mine were medically examined by the kindest doctor. Evidence of abuse was found so they didnt need anyone tslking to them. The Judge plain found him guilty of first degree assault of a minor ( although he was also a minor at 13, you are charged if you perped on children six years younger than you or more.) We did not ask for this. The District Attorney was the one who brought the charges.

This is not a nice crime. It is taken very seriously, especially if minor kids were the victims.

 

[BusynMember]

My son at 13 was on the state list of sexual predators. He no longer is, which scares me, but he was a minor when he was convicted. If he is still at it, and he has been at it since age five but never got caught until with us, then his record is clean at least since a certain age...not sure what age.

Your son if turned in and indicted (mine was found guilty at 13) will be on the sexual abuse list. Morally I feel you must turn him in so he can not offend against others. But the ramifications are strong. And your other kids will probably be talked to and even examined for evidence. Mine were medically examined by the kindest doctor. Evidence of abuse was found so they didnt need anyone talking to them. The Judge plain found him guilty of first degree assault of a minor ( although he was also a minor at 13, you are charged if you perped on children six years younger than you or more.) We did not ask for this. The District Attorney was the one who brought the charges.

This is not a nice crime. The ripple effect is massive. It is taken very seriously, especially if minor kids were the victims.

 

[Tanya M]

"I'm going dark. Don't know when next we'll talk. Even if we're not communicating, here's what I would like to leave with you... I know you've hurt people. I know you've hurt people in our family. Even so, you weren't born to be evil. You were born to be good and do good...and the dark forces in this world saw the threat that you were and have effectively taken you out. They have wrapped you in a haze of darkness and have so muddled your brain that you see the darkness and think it is real, not knowing that there is a beautiful, light-filled world just on the other side of the deceptions you've bought into. Here's something else I know... Dark cannot defeat the light. No matter how hard darkness tries to stifle light, it can't. Light wins. Always. So even though I won't be talking to you for a while, I can promise you this. I will be blasting light your way. We walk on the same earth. Your feet touch the same land that mine do. The wind in our lungs is the same as is the light that vibrates in every living thing. When I see grass, trees, water, birds, rain, clouds, anything and everything that either has light or can conduct light - I'm going to send my light into the ground, into the grass, into the trees, through the mountains, until it infiltrates your body through your feet, your lungs, your eyes. You cannot escape the light. The light will win. The darkness that tries to hide your light will despair at how bright and powerful and inescapable my light, my love for you, is. To little D... Do not give up the good battle. You are loved beyond measure. You are stronger than you think you are. You were made for greatness. Do not give up, my son."

This is beautiful and heartfelt.

Hang in there and stay strong! Be good to yourself. Sometimes when we are in constant crisis mode we neglect to care for ourselves. Make sure you are taking time just for you. Simple things, a long bubble bath, a walk in the park, going to lunch with a friend, buying yourself flowers, find and do things that bring you joy.

 

[Elsi]

I believe from adopting several kids that nature trumps nurture. Was your Oldest childs biological father a shady, abusive guy? Do the other kids have a different father? I read that kids BORN TO criminal parents can and often do inherit the personality traits to have a higher chance of being a criminal too. It isnt always true.

I think nature and nurture are really, really complicated. There are genetics. There are in utero influences. There are epigenetics (how genes get turned on or off in response to environment). In some cases, you have physical brain trauma. And then you have environmental influences, both those in our control and those that are not. For adopted children who were not adopted at birth, there is a whole host of unknown environmental factors. What part is genetics, what part is environment, and what part is self-determination? Who can tell?

Of my four, only my youngest is mine biologically. My older daughter is so much like her bio mom it is spooky. Her bio mom abandoned her when she was a year old and saw her maybe 4-5 times over the next 20 years. She barely knows the woman. And yet, sometimes I feel like my influence in her life has been zero. Her bio mom was also abandoned by HER mom. I think S may have some reactive attachment disorder going on from being abandoned at such a critical time in her development. I've spent 26 years trying to patch that hole. When I think about her history, and her bio-mom's, I think about that quote from the Bible about "the sins of the father being visited upon them even unto the seventh generation." As I kid growing up (in a religion I no longer follow) I read that as pure pettiness on the part of God, punishing innocent children for their parents' mistakes. Now I read it as simple reality. Pain and dysfunction are transmitted down through the generations, not in punishment but just in natural consequences. (Sorry...feeling philosophical this morning.)

With my sons I feel like it's more complicated. They have a lot of their father in them. They struggle with their bio-mom's addictions. But I hear myself and my influence in them when we talk, sometimes at unexpected times.

My youngest, my only bio child, looks like me and in many ways thinks and acts like me. Except with much more confidence and social poise than I had at her age. She's not a full blown Aspie girl. But we share a sense of humor, a high degree of responsibility and perfectionism, intellectual interests, food preferences, learning styles, and more. I have been accused of cloning myself more than once.

But there are also kids growing up in horrific circumstances with bio parents who are addicts or criminals who grow up to live normal lives and never offend. There are also kids - including the kids of many here - who have no obvious risk factors, are born into homes with stable parents and ideal environments, and still go completely off the rails. Why are some kids resilient while others get into trouble no matter what advantages they are given? Who knows? I've spent my whole life trying to figure it out and am no closer to finding the answers.

 

[Elsi]

Morally I feel you must turn him in so he can not offend against others.

As a former victim myself I agree with this. It is hard and sad. But I agree that your first responsibility is to the child he victimized, and to any potential future victims.

Stay strong.

 

[Despairing Mom]

We will try and see if there is any way for the state our oldest is currently residing to rescind his probation.

Annie,
I am worried about this statement.

Your older son committed felonious crimes upon your youngest child. He needs to be arrested, prosecuted for these sexual crimes, and sent to prison. He doesn't just need to have his probation rescinded.

I also have a child who will end up in prison if she isn't killed by another criminal first. I think about what I'll do when she is arrested. (I won't pay her bail.) I think about what her life and mine will be like when she ends up there. (I won't accept phone calls from her. I might send her $30/month to pay for dental care and feminine products.) It's all extremely unpleasant, but that is where she will soon reside because she deserve to reside there. Your son deserves to live there too. I'm so very sorry.

 

[Triedntrue]

My son never sexually abused his brothers it was just the chaos and the temper that caused them to exclude him from their lives and because i kept trying to help him they have to some extent cut me out as well. They both moved to a different state and call me only once in a while and on holidays. Although they always tell me they love me. Sometimes there are consequences to continuing to try and fix things that may not be able to be fixed. You have to put your younger children as the priority in my opinion.

 

[AKAnnie]

Good morning, lovely souls... I have read and reread all of your encouraging words and suggestions. They are a balm to my spirit as this is hard, hard, hard. I was angry but for a brief moment for the horror and disgust of learning about the sexual abuse. Now that a couple of days have passed - I am left with a mountain of grief. Grief for my husband and I as individuals and as a couple. Grief for my youngest for what he's had to endure both physically and emotionally. Grief for my daughter. And yes - grief for my oldest. Yowza! It is crushing and I know everyone here has felt it. I thought we were doing everything right. I thought we were doing everything we could. And maybe we were...we just didn't count on the power of will and self-determination on the part of our oldest. Evil is as evil does...and if that is the bent you have, then that is the direction you will go regardless of what external motivators are out there.

Been completely focused on making sure we are doing right by our youngest. Although we have filed a police report, next steps are tricky. A crime has been committed and yet oldest currently resides in a different state several thousand miles away. Do we want him extradited and brought back to the state we are living in to be prosecuted? A resounding NO to that! We are checking with the state oldest lives in to see if there is any recourse with them, especially as he is currently on probation for the corruption of minors charge. One step at a time. Youngest will see our psychologist this coming Monday so that is great.

Now my questions are these... I don't like anybody right now. I don't want to talk, I don't want to laugh, I don't want to be touched. I am putting on a "normal" face while feeling anything but. How have you guys dealt with the crushing grief? How does a marriage survive? How do friendships survive? I am dry and feel like my entire being is raw and everything and everyone irritates my wound. For those of you that have weathered the trenches and survived - how did you do it?

 

[Copabanana]

Evil is as evil does...and if that is the bent you have, then that is the direction you will go regardless of what external motivators are out there.

I see it as an eclipse. I believe each of us has evil and good and at each instant we are called upon to choose. It may be your son never learns how to choose the good, who could know? But the potential is there.

e are checking with the state oldest lives in to see if there is any recourse with them, especially as he is currently on probation for the corruption of minors charge

Good.

the crushing grief?

This is all so new for you. I do not think it is kind to you to have the expectation that you will recover (of course you will in time) but now is the time to feel what you have experienced, which is traumatized and crushing responsibility. How can you recover without first feeling these feelings, giving them space?

I have come to believe that focus on the body, somatic work(some combination of somatic experiencing therapy, rolfing, pilates, yoga, massage, Tai Chi, etc.) that focuses on breathwork, core and grounding, for me is key.

I have become spiritual, too.

 

[AKAnnie]

I am curious about one thing. I believe from adopting several kids that nature trumps nurture. Was your Oldest childs biological father a shady, abusive guy? Do the other kids have a different father? I read that kids BORN TO criminal parents can and often do inherit the personality traits to have a higher chance of being a criminal too. It isnt always true. My youngest son is an angel and his birthmother had to relinquish five kids and was a bad drug addict and Sonic is very kind and loving/no drugs at 25. But I do believe that often that DNA shapes our kids, even in a loving home, more than we do.

My two oldest children have the same biological father, who suffers from alcoholism, depression, and narcissism - a completely self-absorbed, neglectful person...but never abusive in a physical or sexual way. My daughter is also his - and she is great. However there IS something to be said about genetics as my oldest looks like, sounds like, and acts like his bio dad. My daughter took more after me and my side of the family.

 

[BusynMember]

This is how it worked for us.

Backstory is we had adopted R. at age 11 and he seemed perfect to us (and to many foster parents before us). No complaints. Not one foster parent knew he was sexually abusing their littles although he admitted it all once he was in lockup residential. My two littles had been our beloved kids since very early on. All were adopted so this is not about adoption.

We loved R. But love takes time and we did not feel as attached to him as we did to Jumper and Sonic. He was with us from 11-13.

Once we were blown away by what R. had done under our noses, besides feeling stupid and guilty we were both on the same page. Without any wavering between us, both of us knew we could never parent R. again and did not want him in our home. We both wanted to put our focus on the littles. Period. We took every ounce of help CPS gave us for free and paid for some ourselves and somehow created a stronger bond than ever between us and our two young ones, a close, loving bond we four still have. There was no ambiguity between my husband and I. We helped one another and nobody else really knew what happened. We got through it together.

There was the big factor that neither of us was any longer loving R. We knew his past had caused it, but we did not feel we were able to ever get past what he did to even support him from afar.

We healed well with help and again are very tight. I truly fo not think it would have gone so well if we had kept R. in the background. I dont know how that would work for you. Your situation is different.

I think being on the same page as your spouse and leaning into each other helps very much. And focusing on healing the kids. Now where Oldest comes in I cant say. We never saw R. again. We called the police then CPS and told them to take him. We were lucky that he confessed. He could have turned it on us and said WE abused HIM or any other story, but he was fortunately too freaked out to lie.

Time takes care of a lot. Time is magical.

I send you all my prayers and good wishes. Everyone handles hard times differently but if you have a higher power, lean on Higher Power too!

 

[Copabanana]

we had kept R.

The issue here is that this mother raised this child from birth. I think this changes things considerably.

 

[BusynMember]

It does. But if Bart had done this, I dont know if I could have supported him. Its a very ugly deed. Different than anything else. And done to kids she also raised from birth. Very hard.

 

[Copabanana]

I dont know if I could have supported him. Its a very ugly deed. Different than anything else. And done to kids she also raised from birth. Very hard.

Everybody is in agreement she needs to turn her back while the kids are in the house and dependent.

That is different than turning her back on him forever. The issue here is the mother, not the son. There is nothing she can do for him. I agree. But as his mother she may feel she needs to keep open the possibility of a connection someday.

You did not have your adopted son for his lifetime.

 

[BusynMember]

I agree. Cant say what I would have done but to be honest there are some things I cant abide. Bart never went as far as Oldest but he is not pleasant to me and wants nothing to do with anyone else.I will never have the same bond with him that I have with the others. Its not possible.

The thing is, I like my other kids as people. They are good, caring, honest, loving folks. I would be honored to know them even if they were not my kids. If Bart were not my kid I would want nothing to do with him. That does make the connection less intense. At least to me. i would be upset if my otherbkids lived as far as St. Louis but Im glad he lives there.

 

[Tanya M]

Good to hear from you today.

Now my questions are these... I don't like anybody right now. I don't want to talk, I don't want to laugh, I don't want to be touched. I am putting on a "normal" face while feeling anything but. How have you guys dealt with the crushing grief? How does a marriage survive? How do friendships survive? I am dry and feel like my entire being is raw and everything and everyone irritates my wound. For those of you that have weathered the trenches and survived - how did you do it?

Right now you are just numb which is very normal considering all you have been dealing with. I would also imagine a little PTSD. When we are dealing with an out of control, difficult child we can easily lose ourselves. We live on high alert in crisis mode amidst the chaos our child creates.
Your son is no longer in your home, nor is he your responsibility. Yes, you are and will continue to deal with the aftermath of what he has done BUT you are on the other side of this, you are on the healing side of this.
It takes time to take your life back. It takes time to be able to know who you can trust. Start small, baby steps.
My husband and I used to fight about our son as we did not see eye to eye on how to deal with him. My marriage suffered. What I/we did was to take long drives on the weekend. Our one rule was that we could not discuss our son. Some drives would start out in silence but that would be broken with small comments about an old barn, or something else that we saw. We would stop for lunch and sometimes wonder around little towns looking at antique stores. The drive home, I would gently put my hand on my husbands leg and he would put his hand on mine.
We cannot allow our children to drive a wedge between us and our spouse.
You might try a date night, go to a movie, take a walk in the park, go on a picnic, something that is just time for you and your husband. Time to allow you to reconnect with each other.
You don't want to laugh - I suggest watching a good comedy.
You don't want to be touched - I suggest going for a manicure or pedicure, or have your hair done, build up to a massage. Human touch is so important.
As for friendships, well, some of mine did not survive. I learned that I could not really trust some of my "friends" and that was okay. I have learned over the years to be very careful in whom I share things with and only keep close, those that I really can trust.
As for the grief, well, you grieve. Actually, you may have already started. I think you are on the cusp of the upward turn. I say this because you hunger for the next level, you reached out asking us how we all did it.
Here is the grief model we call the 7 Stages of Grief:

• SHOCK & DENIAL-
• PAIN & GUILT- ...
• ANGER & BARGAINING- ...
• "DEPRESSION", REFLECTION, LONELINESS- ...
• THE UPWARD TURN- ...
• RECONSTRUCTION & WORKING THROUGH- ...
• ACCEPTANCE

I've been where you are. That place where you can't imagine ever feeling happy or whole again. I and many others here are proof that not only can you survive having a difficult adult child but that you can go on to live a happy life filled with love and joy. I have a very deep faith and that has also helped me.

Right now the most important person you need to take care of is YOU. Self care is not selfish, it's healthy and necessary. Make sure you are doing something just for you each day.

You can and will get through this. There is light at the end of the tunnel and no, it's not a train coming at you.

((HUGS)) to you!!!!!!!!