Involuntary Admission warrant - worthwhile for cluster B personality traits?

Discussion in 'Parent Emeritus' started by mcdonna, Nov 10, 2016.

  1. Snow White

    Snow White Temporarily in the Magic Kingdom

    So, daughter is at it again. Her fraud stuff caught up with her and she made a quick exit from Thailand to Nepal. Called me last night - last time I heard from her was on the internet when she made threats to kill me. Crying and pleading for me to send her $2,000 for a postoperative infection. She's had no problems since her surgery or on her recent flight. I refused her request. Told her that her "alcoholic, child-beating mother" was out of money. I also reminded her that she had money. She stated her GoFundMe accounts had been closed. I replied that she had a PayPal account that people were donating to. She breezed by that comment. She continued on her crying and begging for money for medical treatment.

    So, as a goodwill gesture, I told her I would contact Global Affairs Canada and have them interact with her and the Embassy in Nepal. I did that.

    Today, I received a call from Global Affairs. They have been in contact with daughter. She tells them the same story but will give no further consent for release of information to me. I told them I will not be paying for any medical care. They also will not cover medical expenses. They asked if they could arrange for a flight back to Canada for her. I said they could do as they please but that she wasn't coming back to live in our house. In fact, I told them that if her plane lands in our city, I will have her medical warrant for Involuntary Admission under the Mental Health Act ready and police at the airport to greet her.

    My question to you is: In your opinion, is the 48 to 72 hour involuntary admission going to do any good for a patient with cluster B personality traits (borderline personality disorder & histrionic personality disorder) or am I just wasting the court's time? I'm thinking that she will be able to fleece the docs and be out on the street in 48 hours.
  2. Lil

    Lil Well-Known Member

    Wow. She has nerve, I'll give her that. GOOD FOR YOU! I'd do the SAME thing if my kid dared to badmouth me and then beg for help.

    I can't help with your question, but I wanted to say, I would have loved to have been there to hear you repeat her nasty words back to her.
  3. mof

    mof Momdidntsignupforthis

    Stay strong! You did great..the anger took over!

    Do u think they will just send her back? I don't know if she would go??? She sounds like she is getting desperate...might be a good thing.

    She's got some nerve alright!
  4. ksm

    ksm Well-Known Member

    It didn't take long, did it? So sorry she still tries to manipulate you.

  5. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Absolutely no good at all. Borderline takes years of hard work and dogged determination to change and a VERY good therapist for the person to learn a new way of thinking and reacting. medications don't help borderline behaviors either.

    Your daughter seems to be a very severe borderline. If she asks for help NEVER offer money. She seems like a chronic liar possibly with Manchusens.

    You probably aren't rich enough to afford funding her ridiculous monetary requests. I know she is your daughter, but she is toxic to you. If she'd con strangers with phoney GoFundMe accounts, she'll take every dime you have if you let her. Don't let her.

    It is rare that I ever feel no contact is best, but if you can't resist her con games maybe that is something you need to consider. You can't give her the kind of help she needs...and she seems to want no help. Please take care of yourself first. This daughter may have antisocial personality disorder...not saying she does, but she seems not to feel remorse and you need to protect t yourself. You are important. You matter. You did great this time. Stay strong!

    We are all here holding your are not alone.
  6. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    I think your instincts are correct to NOT pursue the hold. I agree with you that it will be a short-term fix, at best. More than this, you cannot take responsibility to protect the professionals or anybody else with whom she interacts. She is an adult among other adults. Whoever she injures will need to take action against her. They cannot be protected by you, anymore than she can be protected by you.

    The one thing I might do is get a restraining order from the district attorney (that is what they are called here in the States) against her based upon her threats to kill you. That you can and should do: protect yourself against her and force her to face the consequences of her treatment of you.
  7. pasajes4

    pasajes4 Well-Known Member

    If you were to pursue a hold on her, she would spin it so that she was the victim of your continued abuse. I can see her leveraging it so that some kind of way the authorities would be on your doorstep. I don't know how techie she is, but I would be very careful in any future conversations or emails to not say anything about her allegations of abuse. I say this because a good friend wound up having to defend herself when her child took isolated snippets of texts and phone conversations in order to "prove" her case of ongoing abuse. It was all unfounded but it took court and money to undo the damage this "child" caused.
  8. AppleCori

    AppleCori Well-Known Member

    I had a step-brother that was very good at manipulating people, though he was never mean about it, as far as I know.

    One time, I asked my mom if she would ever think about having him committed. She said that he was so good that he would probably convince them that she was the crazy one, and she would find herself being committed instead.

    Just something to think about.
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  9. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    Something similar happened in M's family. He had a wonderful brother, hard-working, decent, ambitious who by the time he was 16 by his own efforts had bought parcels of land and a home.

    He fell into inhalant use. M accompanied by his mother, brought the brother to a psychiatric hospital. From somewhere the brother summoned a coherence and rationality that appeared from nowhere and was never to be seen again. He convinced the doctors and the staff that he was the sane one and his brother and mother the crazy ones.

    The episode ended by threats against M and his mother by interfering with the rights and liberties of a perfectly wonderful person--the drug-addicted brother.

    Fast forward 30 years later the brother is completely dysfunctional. Almost non-verbal. Paranoid. Afraid. Isolated. Incontinent, he carries poop in his pockets to keep people at bay. He depends completely on the care of his now almost 90 year old mother.

    I think this is one reason that M has such a difficult time detaching from my son. He is terrified that if we again turn away my son, he will fall into a drug addiction from which he can never recover and we will have no way to reach or to help him.

    A tiny bit funny but related aspect of his fear came up in the past couple of days. After the election (and also because of my son) I have been nervous and unable to sleep. I had stopped taking Benadryl after I read that it was related strongly to Alzheimer's disease. When I cannot sleep neither can M, something that irritates and frustrates him because he is working very hard.

    I told him I would take a mild tranquilizer whose only risk-factor was addictive properties. I had taken this before, I told M, and felt there was no risk to me. M replied:

    I would rather you took the pill that causes Alzheimer's. At least I can go there with you and we can face it together. What can I do if you become, an addict? Nothing at all.
  10. A dad

    A dad Active Member

    Your husband knows what is important and I get his strong desire to fix your son.
    House great job and money mean nothing to me and I have them all. I have 2 jobs a business I own and another as a section boss at a company and I could not care less for both jobs and its not a secret.
    The best motivation is love for your family your spouse , children, girlfriend, parents, siblings, pets whatever there is no stronger motivation.
    House, money, job seem hollow after a time and you need to fill that void with something.
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  11. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    I could not agree more, although I lived my life to the contrary consumed by personal ambition. I believed self-esteem and happiness would come by realizing personal success--not economic success--but achievements.

    It would be fruitless to condemn myself (I have done it and it helps not at all). I came out of a difficult family and felt abandoned by them all. I did not see until it is too late that their difficulties made not one bit of difference to the need for loyalty and love towards them. I loved them. I did not live from that love, to my everlasting sorrow, now, when it is too late.

    My son became the center of my life. and now I have M. I have another chance.

    While I did achieve many of my aspirations, my life now is defined by my home and family. I am still young enough to work some more. I am uncertain about just why I would want to go there. This is a big change for me. Thank you, A Dad.
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2016
  12. Snow White

    Snow White Temporarily in the Magic Kingdom

    I think that my emotions are being kept a little more in check when I am trying to detach. I see the manipulation/lies more clearly and it does make me angry.

    You are right - she believes that my husband and I have the problems. I need to let go of the attempts to get help for her. I sometimes feel that if I'm not trying hard enough to get her help then I'm not a good parent.

    I applied for a protection order (Canada's 'restraining order') when she was 18. Magistrate dismissed my application because she felt that the involuntary admission warrant was more applicable. I didn't pursue it at the time. If I hear she is coming back to Canada, I will re-apply for the protection order. I don't trust her.

    I couldn't agree more. Her version of the truth is becoming more and more skewed as the years go by.

    Too funny (in a sad way)! Yes, that would probably be the outcome with my daughter.

    I wish I had a magic pill that would make this right. Sadly, I don't.

    We were having a good weekend - I have an extended 4 day weekend but daughter seems to know how to wreck everything. Apparently, she didn't get sepsis or die from the post-op infection she demanded $2K for treatment for. No, instead she has her GoFundMe account reinstated and spends hours crafting another hurtful email to me. She picks and chooses select "events" from the past and then brandishes them with her bizarre memories of said events. She often makes me question my sanity when her views of the past are so sick and twisted.

    And it's about time you heard the truth. Do what you wish after you finish this email. Print it out. Burn it. Share it on social media. Delete it. Block me. I don't care.

    When I fell ill with a serious post op infection. An open wound. I called, sobbing, an IV still in my wrist. I needed help. Whether emotional or financial. You refused both. Your maniacal and sociopathic behaviors will no longer affect or control my life. And I will be making it known to the public just how twisted and abusive you really are. For your sake - let's hope you're six feet under for when my first chapter is published. I loved you. I believed you could change. But during our last phone call. You destroyed it all.

    An IV still in her wrist? All the way from surgery on October 23rd to a flight to Nepal a few days ago? Seriously?

    The rest of the email was vulgar, hurtful and without insight. I feel like I'm at a funeral....mourning for the loss of a relationship that cannot be yet trying to move forward.

    Hubby and I are going out for dinner with friends tonight (booked last week). I'm not going to let this ruin yet another event for us. I haven't told my husband the details of the email. I think the best thing for me to do is to not even respond to the email. I know that's what she wants.
  13. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    You need to stop reading her emails
    They are mean and toxic.
    Trying to change reality is called gaslighting. Look it up. The abused pretends reality never happened in an attempt to make you feel crazy. It is VERY abusive.

    You can't fix this daughter. You can't have a relationship with her either unless you want an abusive one. She is incapable of an honest, loving relationship. She has scammed, conned, lied and then blamed you for things that never happened. She has done this to her friends as well. It is what she does.

    She is your daughter.I know you love her and hope she changes. You don't want it to be this way, but she is toxic to all she meets. Stop reading her Facebook, emails or answering her texts or phone calls. She does not talk reality and she hurts you.

    Think about it. She only cares about getting things for herself and will do a fake GoFundMe to make money. She is dangerous and appears to lack a conscience, which is common with Cluster B. To be honest, for she seems more narcissistic or antisocial than borderline. Jmo.

    in my opinion this is a rare Difficult Child that is so over the top that she would scam and rob you if you let her have that chance. Please protect yourselves.

    It's your choice of course, but I feel it would be best for you and hub to get into counseling to learn to let go. Then move on with your life...together. This daughter does not seem to have the ability to be straight or loving with anyone. To stay sane, you may have to learn to live basically without her in your life much.

    Trust me, my heart hurts for your situation. But I spoke what I believe. I hope it wasn't hurtful. I am concerned for you and your husband. God bless.
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    Last edited: Nov 13, 2016
  14. recoveringenabler

    recoveringenabler Well-Known Member Staff Member

    This statement is often the root of how we stay stuck in our adult kids chaotic lives.......we take on part of their belief that it is our problem, we try to help, we feel guilt that we aren't trying hard enough because we are a bad parent. There begins the hamster wheel we get caught in. Your daughter is a master manipulator who will use ANYthing, anything at all, to get what she wants. I would proceed wth extreme caution. Protect yourself in whatever way you can.

    Having spent a good amount of time around family members who are mentally ill, it is a typical response to question your own sanity.......we are often no match for their brilliance, their cunning and their ability to fabricate the truth. I think the bottom line is you must protect yourself, your family and your home in whatever ways are necessary, I believe that to be your number one priority now. It may also be prudent to severely limit any interactions with your daughter.

    Get as much support as you can as you detach from your daughter's chaotic life.......focus on you and your family.....

    I'm sorry, I know how hard this is....
  15. UKMummy

    UKMummy Member

    McDonna, I have being reading your updates for the past few weeks and my heart goes out to you.
    For me this would now have to be about self preservation. I would block the emails. There is nothing constructive to come from reading such awful, hurtful things. YOU know these things aren't true but to hear your child say these things can do nothing but hurt.
    I can appreciate that with her being abroad that you want to keep a line of communication open but if there was a REAL emergency you would be contacted.
    I would certainly not respond. She is just poking you for a reaction. She has lost the right to be able to email you by sending such awful messages.