My son relapsed....

[Copabanana]

Did I mention Im very proud?

Yes.

 

[RN0441]

My son still has a week in PHP (no cell phone and very little house phone time) and on Friday night he called and I was able to tell him many things that I was feeling. He does not have privacy there during calls so said very little but I got some things off my chest so was happy for that. I told him that he had said he was not changing (before this relapse) and he said he never said that. Uh yes he did.

He then called again Sunday and husband and I were in the car. He had not talked to his dad since his overdose and traffic tickets. My husband gave him a piece of his mind about the driving while drinking, and the other ticket. He said he felt very betrayed after he had spent money getting car in shape for him and spent money having it shipped to him so he could use it for college classes and to get job farther away from where he lives. I do not feel my husband was over the top - which he can be at times. Son promptly hung up on us.

I am very angry with him right now. I will not even answer if he calls today. I have nothing to say. He is being very disrespectful to us. Biting the hand that feeds him and biting hard. I am losing hope. I hate to say that. I just don't see him being sorry or remorseful for the overdose or the tickets. Not seeing anything I want to see. I know that actions speak louder than words but for now not seeing anything at all. I plan to talk to my therapist today about my feelings/next steps. Our relationship with him is at an all time low.

 

[New Leaf]

RN, I am so sorry for your struggles with your son. It is a different scenario than mine, but after going through the ups and downs of this for years and years, I have finally come to a place of understanding that what I want for my two is entirely out of my hands.

I do not feel my husband was over the top - which he can be at times. Son promptly hung up on us.

I keep reflecting on Darkwing's comment about humility. I have not seen this with my two. Another trait that is a huge void within them is empathy. I feel that they have no understanding of the affect their actions and choices have on their parents. Okay, maybe they do, but they don't seem to care. Drugs have taken over and consumed them with selfishness. They do not want to hear about how their lifestyles have laid us bare, ripped our hearts out, frustrated us to no end. It is all about them, "woe is me" it is everyones else's fault. They don't want to look in the mirror. Maybe the reality is just too painful? Maybe if they faced the truth of their responsibility for their predicament, then they would have to change? They would have to face the fact that the consequences they live were wrought by their own decisions.
All I know in looking back is that we were caught up in this ugly, ugly game. It was a very one-sided struggle. We viewed them from the memories of rearing and caring for them, in turn, we were treated as an "opportunity". We thought we were helping them to step up to a better life, but were stepped on over and again. It is a desperate situation for all. The only way I saw survival for us and even my two, was for us to "pull back". I felt we were way more committed to a better life for them, than they were. I haven't seen yet that my detaching works for them, they still go on about their lives infused with drama and chaos. But, it is working for me. Oh, yes, I still have my moments but it is imperative for me to keep working on separating myself from the choices they make. To not be so emotionally and physically entangled with an outcome. I think though, that it can only help them to understand that I am not going to roll over and stop living my life as best can. I am not going to play the game anymore. It is because I saw no change when I was fully invested. It is true, I do not see change in them now, but I do see change in me.

I am very angry with him right now. I will not even answer if he calls today. I have nothing to say. He is being very disrespectful to us. Biting the hand that feeds him and biting hard.

This happened to hubs and I over and over again. We would open our home, it would start out okay, then things would slip into the same ole, same ole. Nothing changes, if nothing changes. I have to remind myself not to fall into the trap of allowing them to disrespect me. Of allowing my love for them to override what is in front of my face.

What my two have shown me in their choices, their actions, how they have treated us, our home, is that while I love them, I don't like them very much. As they continue with this lifestyle and shirk all responsibility for their own choices, I will keep working on pulling back, until I see a noticeable difference in attitude, how they live, and how they treat me.

I just don't see him being sorry or remorseful for the overdose or the tickets. Not seeing anything I want to see. I know that actions speak louder than words but for now not seeing anything at all.

I completely understand your struggle and trying to help your son. He is just 20. I am not giving up hope for my two, just the fact that anything I do will get them to see the light.
They have to want to.
Your son has to want to see the light.
It doesn't matter to him what you want.
The same for my two. It doesn't matter to them what I want.

I plan to talk to my therapist today about my feelings/next steps.

I am glad you are seeing a therapist. It is good to have a professional help guide you through this. It is a rough road we all travel.
I guess what I am trying to share with you RN, is that you have the rest of your life to live. You matter. You need to do what you need to, to work this out. I hope and pray that your son wakes up and takes responsibility, appreciates the help he is receiving and continues to make an effort to change. While he is in rehab, and working on himself, it is an opportunity for you to work on you. I am glad you are doing that. You matter. You have a life to live. Be very kind and gentle wth yourself my friend.
(((HUGS)))
Leafy

 

[RN0441]

RN, I am so sorry for your struggles with your son. It is a different scenario than mine, but after going through the ups and downs of this for years and years, I have finally come to a place of understanding that what I want for my two is entirely out of my hands.
I keep reflecting on Darkwing's comment about humility. I have not seen this with my two. Another trait that is a huge void within them is empathy. I feel that they have no understanding of the affect their actions and choices have on their parents. Okay, maybe they do, but they don't seem to care. Drugs have taken over and consumed them with selfishness. They do not want to hear about how their lifestyles have laid us bare, ripped our hearts out, frustrated us to no end. It is all about them, "woe is me" it is everyones else's fault. They don't want to look in the mirror. Maybe the reality is just too painful? Maybe if they faced the truth of their responsibility for their predicament, then they would have to change? They would have to face the fact that the consequences they live were wrought by their own decisions.
All I know in looking back is that we were caught up in this ugly, ugly game. It was a very one-sided struggle. We viewed them from the memories of rearing and caring for them, in turn, we were treated as an "opportunity". We thought we were helping them to step up to a better life, but were stepped on over and again. It is a desperate situation for all. The only way I saw survival for us and even my two, was for us to "pull back". I felt we were way more committed to a better life for them, than they were. I haven't seen yet that my detaching works for them, they still go on about their lives infused with drama and chaos. But, it is working for me. Oh, yes, I still have my moments but it is imperative for me to keep working on separating myself from the choices they make. To not be so emotionally and physically entangled with an outcome. I think though, that it can only help them to understand that I am not going to roll over and stop living my life as best can. I am not going to play the game anymore. It is because I saw no change when I was fully invested. It is true, I do not see change in them now, but I do see change in me.
This happened to hubs and I over and over again. We would open our home, it would start out okay, then things would slip into the same ole, same ole. Nothing changes, if nothing changes. I have to remind myself not to fall into the trap of allowing them to disrespect me. Of allowing my love for them to override what is in front of my face.

What my two have shown me in their choices, their actions, how they have treated us, our home, is that while I love them, I don't like them very much. As they continue with this lifestyle and shirk all responsibility for their own choices, I will keep working on pulling back, until I see a noticeable difference in attitude, how they live, and how they treat me.
I completely understand your struggle and trying to help your son. He is just 20. I am not giving up hope for my two, just the fact that anything I do will get them to see the light.
They have to want to.
Your son has to want to see the light.
It doesn't matter to him what you want.
The same for my two. It doesn't matter to them what I want.
I am glad you are seeing a therapist. It is good to have a professional help guide you through this. It is a rough road we all travel.
I guess what I am trying to share with you RN, is that you have the rest of your life to live. You matter. You need to do what you need to, to work this out. I hope and pray that your son wakes up and takes responsibility, appreciates the help he is receiving and continues to make an effort to change. While he is in rehab, and working on himself, it is an opportunity for you to work on you. I am glad you are doing that. You matter. You have a life to live. Be very kind and gentle wth yourself my friend.
(((HUGS)))
Leafy

Thank you for your post Leafy. You remind me of all the things that I know and need to be reminded about.

I do enjoy my life and time with husband but as you know it's always there.....

Well he didn't try to call so I could not answer. LOL

But am going to do what his house manager suggested. Let him sit in his own for a bit.

 

[rebelson]

[emoji17] I'm sorry RN.

Is hanging up on you something he's done before?

 

[RN0441]

[emoji17] I'm sorry RN.

Is hanging up on you something he's done before?

Not that I can remember or not for a long time. He didn't want to hear that his dad spent over $2000 getting car in good shape for him so he could send it to him and then felt like he got kicked in the butt. Maybe it made him feel like ; I don't know. But I can't tiptoe around his feelings. What does it even matter anyway?

Our relationship with him was very very good prior to this. I don't know if we'll ever get that back. I'm so tired of it all.

 

[BusynMember]

If he quits he will probably become the person he used to be.

Right now he is angry that you called him out on his crap. They hate that, but rather than expressing regrets, they make it our fault.

I think your husband was fair.

 

[rebelson]

My son started with this attitude, blaming everybody but himself crap a long time ago. Way back when he began smoking weed in middle school. So, after 9yrs., I got numb to it. Which wasn't good because it enabled the disrespect when he should've been called on it.

After that residential inpatient stint, where the staff harped HEAVILY on humility....he's been quite sweet, kind, even showing glimmers of caring.

I think that that inpatient stay combined with "some" growth in maturity (he's almost 24), are what's behind this positive change.

Now, if they could only STAY sober.

 

[Copabanana]

It is so hard to begin with because I need to see someone who takes my insurance

For now, rebelson, what about Al Anon? I think the people you will find in those groups may be what you need right now, and many will have suffered in the same wa as you.

I have (self-diagnosed but I'm sure it's it) IBS

Well, me, too. Mine was diagnosed, but in the end (no pun intended) I ended up popping prilosec like candy with constant stomach cramps and BLACK VOMIT. I was afraid to even go for the endoscopy. I think I have holes in my intestines now.

I mean, the suffering we endure.

rebelson, I am not anti-therapist but there are ways that until you find the right therapist, you can find other ways to find support and relief. Like pastoral counselors, or Al Anon, like I mentioned. Prayer. Artwork. Journals. Exercise. There is also a 12 step group called Obsessive Compulsive Anonymous that may or may not be in your area. There are certain activities that you can do alone that involve bilateral movement that you do not need a therapist at all--until you find a good one. I will go and see what I can find.

 

[rebelson]

For now, rebelson, what about Al Anon? I think the people you will find in those groups may be what you need right now, and many will have suffered in the same wa as you. I ended up popping prilosec like candy with constant stomach cramps and BLACK VOMIT. I was afraid to even go for the endoscopy.

rebelson, I am not anti-therapist but there are ways that until you find the right therapist, you can find other ways to find support and relief. Like pastoral counselors, or Al Anon, like I mentioned. Prayer. Artwork. Journals. Exercise. There is also a 12 step group called Obsessive Compulsive Anonymous that may or may not be in your area. There are certain activities that you can do alone that involve bilateral movement that you do not need a therapist at all--until you find a good one. I will go and see what I can find.

I remember when you were vomiting coffee grounds[emoji45].

Copa, thanks for the tips. If you find any other helpful information for me, please post it over on my thread: "possible relapse", so I will have it there to refer to.

 

[BusynMember]

Rapid Eye Movement...EMDR therapy. Not sure exactly what it is used for, but some people I kniw who used it got significant relief. Super me therapists can do this.

 

[Copabanana]

RN I am sorry for the place you find yourself in but I believe we all need to come to this.

Son promptly hung up on us.

I agree with the rest. Your son is realizing his manipulations are not carrying the day. Good. He cannot anymore snow you or cow you. Good. What can he say, anyway, when all of the obfuscations, excuses and lies no longer serve him. He is facing that now. He is facing himself. He does not like it. It is easier to blame you.

But you and your husband are learning: you will not accept either blame nor responsibility. Good.

I just don't see him being sorry or remorseful for the overdose or the tickets.

I do not believe you or I can reasonably expect the changing to be in them at this stage. It must come from us.

You are starting to pivot. Evidence this:

I will not even answer if he calls today.

I can't tiptoe around his feelings.

I'm so tired of it all.

When I was at this point, I did not call my son for months. I barely spoke with him, saying Oh, So, or No. And that was about it. He hated it!! And I set very, very tight boundaries. I would not speak about anything unless I wanted to. If he chose a topic that I had warned him against, I said Bye.

This was when he began to change. When he realized I would not accept him the way he was. If he wanted anything to do with me, he had to change. And he began to change. He was convinced I was serious.

Others have mentioned the car: no cars or insurance in your name!! Now is the time I would pull back. If my son wanted to run his own program, I let him. I backed off. That is what I did. And I did not tolerate the hanging up. I would not answer. I would let him sweat. Until I became convinced he was accepting my terms. Or no terms. It is about power. The power belongs to you! I took my power back.

 

[RN0441]

Well I went to my therapist yesterday. I felt pretty in control going in. Thought maybe I'll just see her every two weeks....

Then I started to cry during the session when she asked me how my week went. I got a lot more out of it this time. She was much more interactive.

She reminded me that HE is not doing this on purpose but he has a disease. UGH WTF tears. It's so much easier when I'm angry. HE needs to know that we love and support him. A lot of addicts use because they feel LONELY. More tears.

She said I need to accept how he is. I said no. I cannot accept this. She said that I have to accept how he is for NOW. I guess I have no choice but to do that do I?

I said that I'm anxious when he calls. Anxious about when my husband goes for son's 21st birthday the end of August. My husband likes his beers. I told him he CANNOT drink in front of son period. Husband did not even want to go after all of this (o.d. and tickets - angry/disappointed) but I told him I thought he needs to go or son make feel we don't love him. I don't think that is appropriate punishment. I don't have any extra vacation time or I'd go too.

Anyway I will go back next week. I did have a good weekend with my husband and friends but my concern/pain/love/agony is always running in the background like software. On the outside I look like I'm handling it well. On the inside, not so much.

 

[RN0441]

My son started with this attitude, blaming everybody but himself crap a long time ago. Way back when he began smoking weed in middle school. So, after 9yrs., I got numb to it. Which wasn't good because it enabled the disrespect when he should've been called on it.

After that residential inpatient stint, where the staff harped HEAVILY on humility....he's been quite sweet, kind, even showing glimmers of caring.

I think that that inpatient stay combined with "some" growth in maturity (he's almost 24), are what's behind this positive change.

Now, if they could only STAY sober.

My son was sweet and kind also and very funny before the relapse. Our relationship with him was great at that time. This changed everything unfortunately.

 

[New Leaf]

She reminded me that HE is not doing this on purpose but he has a disease. UGH WTF tears. It's so much easier when I'm angry. HE needs to know that we love and support him. A lot of addicts use because they feel LONELY. More tears.

This is hard, RN, hard to find a balance between loving our d cs and understanding the disease, getting to a place where what's happening with them does not affect us so. Love and support, well yes, we love them and will support efforts towards sobriety, not their lifestyle.

She said I need to accept how he is. I said no. I cannot accept this. She said that I have to accept how he is for NOW. I guess I have no choice but to do that do I?

We all have no choice, it is the all encompassing "It is what it is". On this journey, we have to find ways to cope with the loss, to grieve, to be angry, to pull away when we need to, to protect our hearts. The lifestyle and choices are unacceptable. The results are unacceptable. The end of the story is not yet written, but still it is all painfully there for us to deal with and try to carry on as best we can. I would be interested to know what suggestions your therapist would have to help you "accept" this. Has she had to deal with this herself? What is her definition of acceptance?

I did have a good weekend with my husband and friends but my concern/pain/love/agony is always running in the background like software. On the outside I look like I'm handling it well. On the inside, not so much.

Oh how I can relate to this. It is always there, looming in the background. What if you use your time in between sessions to write down questions you have for your therapist? Get some answers on how you go about living your life with the constant software running?
It is harder than losing a loved one, hubs passed and how I miss him so, but there is a finality to it. That sounds callous, but it is true. There is nothing I can do to bring him back. I have to deal with it, and carry on with my life.
With this, there is that never ending fear and agony that something dreadful may happen. It is like disaster preparedness ramped up to an infinity degree. Like sending our d cs off to war, but the battle they wage is within themselves and the elements they surround themselves with.
So, I have to keep reminding myself that I have no control over their choices. Reflecting on the Viktor Frankl talk helps tremendously. That all of us have a spark within us, a purpose we are seeking. So, instead of the negative software running constantly, I have to change it to the positive possibilities. Easy to write, hard to do because I think as mothers, we project the worst possible outcome, to "prepare" ourselves in case it happens. But, it is hard to live like that, with fear, pain, anxiety. It eats our insides up. So what if you were to change the tape and say, "Son you have been given a second chance at life, I know that you can do this." Turn it around.
It is the Dr Seuss book "Oh the Places You'll Go!" Yah, we sure as heck didn't expect our kids to go there.......but it is still on the way to something.
Hopefully, something much, much better, and I know RN, you and your husband gave your son the life lessons, values and instilled the skills for him to be successful.
Sorry if I am in Pollyanna overdrive today, but I am tired of living with the constant software and negative imagery, it is not living. So yes, what I want for my two, may not happen in the timeframe I wish, yes they have to want it, but, I can still project it in my mind and how I speak with them.
RN, I am writing this to myself as much as I am to you. To remind myself that living with constant dread and fear is unacceptable. I will try to keep reminding myself that we did the best job we could in raising our two and that they have that to fall back on.
I will watch the Viktor Frankl Ted talk again. Here it is........

I am going to work on "overestimating" my two. Thank you for sharing, your thoughts have stirred up these thoughts of dealing with the issues of my grief for my two.
I think it is fine to not accept the choices our d cs make.
Because we know they are capable of so much more.
(((HUGS)))
Leafy

 

[Albatross]

Then I started to cry during the session when she asked me how my week went. I got a lot more out of it this time. She was much more interactive.

She reminded me that HE is not doing this on purpose but he has a disease. UGH WTF tears. It's so much easier when I'm angry. HE needs to know that we love and support him. A lot of addicts use because they feel LONELY. More tears.

She said I need to accept how he is. I said no. I cannot accept this. She said that I have to accept how he is for NOW. I guess I have no choice but to do that do I?

Sessions are hard work, aren't they? It is so much easier to box things up, feelings wise, than it is to let them ooze out and run into each other. I too am really struggling with anger and what to do with it going forward, and how to show love and support when there are so many other undercurrents.

I am sorry he disrespected you by hanging up on you like that, RN0. I am hoping it is just because he is overwhelmed by the seriousness of what he has done and the importance of what lies ahead in his recovery.

 

[in a daze]

my concern/pain/love/agony is always running in the background like software. On the outside I look like I'm handling it well. On the inside, not so much.

Exactly. Like software. Me too.

 

[RN0441]

After zero contact with Difficult Child since Sunday, yesterday I was at a late birthday lunch with my coworker and I got a few FB messages from son. Wondering HOW he was able to FB me since he does not have his phone yet. One said "I want out of here!!!!" and "I am not starting over". Anxiety. Panic for me. Now what? I responded "you have one more week then to IOP and job, that's not starting over". I could see he was not online at that time.

When I got back to work I texted his girlfriend and asked her if she had heard from him. She said she was at work but he had gotten to use the computer and said he'd call her later and she is "worried about him". Said he said he could live with her but she thinks he's joking and both agree that's not an option with all the pills her mom has anyway nor would her mother allow it.

Yesterday evening she texted me and said she had talked to him and he sounded better than he has since the overdose. She told him no one wants to be there but he needs to be there and work on himself so that he does not end up back in this situation. He said he wishes he had not messed up. She said like any addict he does not want to talk to us because he does not want to hear the TRUTH. She said she will be there to help him when he gets out so he won't feel so alone. She's so optimistic. She has a 27 year old brother who is an addict but doing well now. She seems wise beyond her years. We are on the same page.

Trying to find the positives in this. I know that she has a bigger influence on him right now than we do due to his age. We are glad she is there for him and has some experience with addiction. My husband feels that my son tries to push my buttons to get me upset or get me to react. Both which do happen. I know that it is up to him to do what he needs to do but at least that she is supportive is good. It is odd that we are keeping tabs on him now through her but so be it.

My therapist asked me what ways I am now coping. I told her by focusing on the positive things in my life and having good friends I can talk to about it. I also mentioned the great advice and support I get on this forum - detaching with love, taking care of yourself, etc. and she agreed that is very good advice. She gave me a worksheet on values that I am to complete before my next appointment on Tuesday. I am glad that I have her to talk to and help me figure this out for myself.

For today I am going to be okay!

 

[InsaneCdn]

She said she will be there to help him when he gets out so he won't feel so alone. She's so optimistic. She has a 27 year old brother who is an addict but doing well now. She seems wise beyond her years.

She's ... sort of a younger version of us "parents" here - been around the block, knows what this is about. Your son is VERY fortunate to have someone like that in his life.

 

[RN0441]

So yesterday during the day he again messaged me - "I want to be in school so I can get a job where I can live on my own. I can rent a room for $400 a month". I responded "Deal with addiction first. No shortcuts this time. Do not message me about this anymore. We love you and you are right where you need to be".

It is very upsetting o ME that he keeps saying things like this. We know he is nowhere near ready to be in school. He has a lot of work to do.

Has anyone else dealt with this? He's in PHP and IOP next week. I do not want to engage in this talk with him. He won't say this to his dad. Next week he will be able to have his phone and this could be a problem with him bugging me. Want to be supportive of course but this makes me physically ill. How can I be supportive but protect my sanity too?