Thank you anonymous!! It’s been another hard week.... SS managed to sneak another cell phone. Got caught with it and admitted that there would be inappropriate pictures on it. Therapists have the phone and CYS has been called. Have an appointment tonight to find out more. But at this point it is out of our hands. Therapists are recommending inpatient care. He has been with family and doing counseling. It just feels like we have gotten no where!!
New Member......Need Help
- Thread starter Sumsky
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Copabanana
Well-Known Member
I most definitely disagree. you have gotten somewhere. A long way. . You have felt he needed inpatient. You never let up advocating that he get extensive, intensive treatment. He will get it, g-d willing. Almost entirely because you pushed for transparency and accountability.
Everything is in the light now. At least enough is out. He does not have control. There is no way to manipulate or smirk his way out. No responsible family member can minimize. These are significant results. Not what you would want. For sure. But this is real life.
Everything is in the light now. At least enough is out. He does not have control. There is no way to manipulate or smirk his way out. No responsible family member can minimize. These are significant results. Not what you would want. For sure. But this is real life.
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Oh Sumsky, it may 'feel' as if you've gotten no where, given the huge level of work you did to get this far along......however, all the work you did set the stage for your SS to receive the support necessary.... to this point. And, as you mentioned, it is out of your hands now......he himself created the situation which may indeed bring about not only more stringent consequences, but perhaps, the consequences he really needs. Your part was invaluable, you brought everyone on board.....this development does not negate all you did. Your SS appears to require more support than family and counseling......and in the end, this may be a blessing which will address SS's needs now.
Sumsky, don't be so quick to dismiss all that you did, you were the driving force of clarity, communication and finding options. This may be exactly what needs to happen now.
Please let us know how it goes tonight. Sending big hugs....this has been a long road for you.
Sumsky, don't be so quick to dismiss all that you did, you were the driving force of clarity, communication and finding options. This may be exactly what needs to happen now.
Please let us know how it goes tonight. Sending big hugs....this has been a long road for you.
Thank you everyone!!! There has been so much going on this week.... SS stole $300 headphones from a friends house over the weekend and just got caught with that... not sure if the police will be called now as family paid for the headphones. When searching his room for headphones, a juul (electronic cigarette) was found. He is apparently harassing a girl at school because she turned him down. He’s skipped football practice for past week and the coach called. Everyone thought he was going to football practice and he was skipping and hanging with friends. He is failing 3 of 4 major subjects in school. But husband still doesn’t think it’s best to ‘send him away’. Counselors finally told husband that he may not have that choice anymore. With their recommendation as well as the CYS investigation and the prior CYS involvement and family not having enough control to prevent this... there are not really any options left. I want him to go to inpatient so much. He needs it and quite frankly we all need it. Even though he is not at home we are the ones dealing with all this!!!! I’m sooo exhausted!!
Thanks for the update Sumsky, It sure sounds as if this is the best possible outcome for everyone, including SS.
I can't imagine how difficult this has been for you, more than anyone else......you are the one who sees the truth, which in my experience can be the most challenging place to be.....everyone else is in their own form of denial.
No matter what happens, you did a stellar job throughout.
Sumsky, amp up your self care to the max now......you've been at this for a very long time....nourish yourself in whatever ways bring you peace. I'll bet you're exhausted. Take care of YOU.
Sending big hugs.....
I can't imagine how difficult this has been for you, more than anyone else......you are the one who sees the truth, which in my experience can be the most challenging place to be.....everyone else is in their own form of denial.
No matter what happens, you did a stellar job throughout.
Sumsky, amp up your self care to the max now......you've been at this for a very long time....nourish yourself in whatever ways bring you peace. I'll bet you're exhausted. Take care of YOU.
Sending big hugs.....
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
You have always seen the danger in him, his disregard for the personal space of others, his lack of remorse/ empathy.
As soon as you first wrote this story I did not feel it would go well for SS. He sounds almost antisocial and there is no cure for this yet. Plus I worried about your own kids who are kind, normal kids. He is not. I do not know that he can be helped no matter where he is sent. He seems smug and unable to want to make amends or change. Like he is fine being like this.
I am sorry that your husband is hurting, but if SS is sent away it is in my opinion best for all of you. He literally has no boundaries...little goodness in his heart to make him wish to change. There are some people who seem to almost be born lacking empathy. Empathy is mandatory to function well in our society. I hope I have it wrong and that he changes. I dont think I am wrong. But I will be thrilled he he suddenly becomes a good guy who owns up to things snd finds his heart.
In the meantime you have done all you can for everyone. Kudos for your very difficult but loving effort! You really worked to help everyone which could not have been easy.
As soon as you first wrote this story I did not feel it would go well for SS. He sounds almost antisocial and there is no cure for this yet. Plus I worried about your own kids who are kind, normal kids. He is not. I do not know that he can be helped no matter where he is sent. He seems smug and unable to want to make amends or change. Like he is fine being like this.
I am sorry that your husband is hurting, but if SS is sent away it is in my opinion best for all of you. He literally has no boundaries...little goodness in his heart to make him wish to change. There are some people who seem to almost be born lacking empathy. Empathy is mandatory to function well in our society. I hope I have it wrong and that he changes. I dont think I am wrong. But I will be thrilled he he suddenly becomes a good guy who owns up to things snd finds his heart.
In the meantime you have done all you can for everyone. Kudos for your very difficult but loving effort! You really worked to help everyone which could not have been easy.
Copabanana
Well-Known Member
Hi Sumsky.
I have a different take on things. I know your influence has been steady and strong but I am aware that you are in a position where your voice needs to be moderate and subtle.
I worry stepson might be mentally ill as well as morally compromised. Clearly there has been intent and ill will in what he has done. But the recent spate of misconduct sounds like he is losing control, and that he is suffering. Has the possibility that he may be suffering an acute mental illness been considered? Could what you are describing point to a loss of control and impaired judgement. I hope that stepson can see a child psychiatrist.
I wish his father could see this as treatment as opposed to punishment. Clearly the interventions such as they have been are not working for HIM. He is at risk here every bit as much as your daughter and his other victims. If anything it is his life that has the most to lose. If his father could see that his behavior, the escalation is a cry for help....
That the family paid for the headphones as a way to circumvent police was a disservice to this child. At what point will his needs, as opposed to theirs, take precedence.
You have called this right every step of the way. I know this is no consolation.
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BusynMember
Well-Known Member
Antisocial personality disorder, if he has this, IS a mental illness, a very serious one. But it doesnt respond to treatment...the person has no conscience and no desire to be nicer. I am not convinced he is suffering. Others are because of him. His grandparents, his stepsiblings, stepmom, his poor father....him? He seems not to care.
Personality Disorders are newly recognized but ARE recognized. I have to disagree with ya here Copa. He is all about hurting others. That is inconsistent with other mental illnesses where people have great remorse when the chips fall...and sexual acting out is not part of it. The stealing is bad enough. The sexuality is scary. The no remorse is a red flag.
Again I hope I am wrong but just dont see him as mentally ill with a treatable disorder, such as bipolar. He mainly hurts others with no remorse. His family doesnt help by rescuing him out of his deeds.
Personality Disorders are newly recognized but ARE recognized. I have to disagree with ya here Copa. He is all about hurting others. That is inconsistent with other mental illnesses where people have great remorse when the chips fall...and sexual acting out is not part of it. The stealing is bad enough. The sexuality is scary. The no remorse is a red flag.
Again I hope I am wrong but just dont see him as mentally ill with a treatable disorder, such as bipolar. He mainly hurts others with no remorse. His family doesnt help by rescuing him out of his deeds.
Elsi
Well-Known Member
Sumsky, I'm so sorry he's putting you all through this. It sounds like inpatient would be the best, for his own sake and for the protection of others around him. It's alarming that he is harassing a girl at school, especially with his history.
I know all of the personality disorders are very treatment resistant. S has been diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder (Borderline (BPD)). The only thing I have heard of that has shown any success with that is intensive Dialectical Behavioral Therapy (DBT), and it has only been shown to be successful with a motivated and fully compliant patient. Which sadly rules S out, at least for now. I have no idea whether Antisocial responds to DBT at all. But my understanding is that none of the personality disorders respond well to traditional treatments. Of course, none of us can diagnose him over the internet here, so let's hope he has something going on that offers more hope for a successful outcome. In the meantime, I think your instinct for making protection of your daughter and others around him a priority is a good one!
I hope his dad comes around to seeing inpatient as a good option for him. It sounds like he needs more intensive intervention than he can get with school- and home-based options. I hope he gets it, and I hope some type of treatment can be found that he responds to.
I know all of the personality disorders are very treatment resistant. S has been diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder (Borderline (BPD)). The only thing I have heard of that has shown any success with that is intensive Dialectical Behavioral Therapy (DBT), and it has only been shown to be successful with a motivated and fully compliant patient. Which sadly rules S out, at least for now. I have no idea whether Antisocial responds to DBT at all. But my understanding is that none of the personality disorders respond well to traditional treatments. Of course, none of us can diagnose him over the internet here, so let's hope he has something going on that offers more hope for a successful outcome. In the meantime, I think your instinct for making protection of your daughter and others around him a priority is a good one!
I hope his dad comes around to seeing inpatient as a good option for him. It sounds like he needs more intensive intervention than he can get with school- and home-based options. I hope he gets it, and I hope some type of treatment can be found that he responds to.
Triedntrue
Well-Known Member
Praying that all of your hard work to get help for your son will work. I agree hospitalization is the best course at this time. You have hung in there and done a lot for for son. You need to recognize that and give yourself a break. Take some time to take care of you while he is in hospital.
We have completed the cognitive testing. We will now have those results on November 5th. Therapist and case manager are telling us that the doctor that provides this testing is very good. Therapists are feeling that there are one of two things going in with SS. Either he is mildly autistic or has a personality disorder. I was dumbfounded when they said that because they seem like polar opposite to me. After discussing this with them, they explained that they are just not sure is he really just doesn’t get the magnitude of the situation or if he really doesn’t care. If he just ‘plays’ the innocent or if he really is the innocent. There are times that you talk to SS and it seems like he doesn’t understand but at others times it seems you can get through to him. He honestly does not understand emotions. When asked how he thinks someone feels about something all he says are the words, like sad, angry, etc. he can’t describe those feelings.
My honest opinion is that he has antisocial and/or narcissistic personality disorder. I think he is a master manipulator. I think he holds himself and his wants above everyone else and he will get what he wants without regard to anyone else.
That being said, I think these last few days, weeks if not months have proven that. I do think he is at a breaking point. He is in a situation now that he is caught and has no where to turn to get out of it so he’s panicking. We learned last night that he threw the headphones off a bridge so he wouldn’t get caught with them. And he knows that the family bailed him out by paying for the headphones so he won’t deal with the police. So now he is calm again and is acting like it didn’t even happen. He got physically aggressive with his father and pushed him down the steps(father caught himself before he fell far) but he was also in his face screaming at him and trying to get him to hit him. Therapist were there right after this and SS calmed down and told them he was sorry, but then proceeded to tell family members that his dad really disappointed him because now he’s acting just like I do. This is the first that my husband has actually stood up to him and didn’t give him the benefit of doubt. He wouldn’t let him out of his sight to manipulate the situation. And SS lost all control. SS blames me for not being loving and caring towards him. That he’s had a hard life because he sees me being ‘motherly’ towards my children but not him. He is not wrong when he says that. However, he does not see that he created that. I have been his scape goat for a very long time. I tried for years and after awhile just shut down emotionally from him.
All in all, we are waiting for the meeting with CYS and meet with the therapists again on Tuesday. Husband still thinks he has the say on if SS goes to inpatient or not. I don’t think that is the case. Therapists feel 100% that he HAS to go to inpatient. SS is finding too many loopholes in our plan and family members are enabling him. And he can’t be in our home so there are no other options. And the escalation while in therapy is happening.
Husband and I had plans to go to Cancun for a week in November before all this came to light and we are so undecided now. On one hand we NEED it, but one the other he is our responsibility and this is NOT good timing.
I pray he goes to inpatient not only for his benefit but for ALL of us. We ALL need to heal. We ALL need the separation to work on ourselves and the whole family. SS needs more intensive help and 24/7 supervision than we can provide. I don’t know if inpatient will help but I do know that what we are doing is not helping. So we have to do something else.
My honest opinion is that he has antisocial and/or narcissistic personality disorder. I think he is a master manipulator. I think he holds himself and his wants above everyone else and he will get what he wants without regard to anyone else.
That being said, I think these last few days, weeks if not months have proven that. I do think he is at a breaking point. He is in a situation now that he is caught and has no where to turn to get out of it so he’s panicking. We learned last night that he threw the headphones off a bridge so he wouldn’t get caught with them. And he knows that the family bailed him out by paying for the headphones so he won’t deal with the police. So now he is calm again and is acting like it didn’t even happen. He got physically aggressive with his father and pushed him down the steps(father caught himself before he fell far) but he was also in his face screaming at him and trying to get him to hit him. Therapist were there right after this and SS calmed down and told them he was sorry, but then proceeded to tell family members that his dad really disappointed him because now he’s acting just like I do. This is the first that my husband has actually stood up to him and didn’t give him the benefit of doubt. He wouldn’t let him out of his sight to manipulate the situation. And SS lost all control. SS blames me for not being loving and caring towards him. That he’s had a hard life because he sees me being ‘motherly’ towards my children but not him. He is not wrong when he says that. However, he does not see that he created that. I have been his scape goat for a very long time. I tried for years and after awhile just shut down emotionally from him.
All in all, we are waiting for the meeting with CYS and meet with the therapists again on Tuesday. Husband still thinks he has the say on if SS goes to inpatient or not. I don’t think that is the case. Therapists feel 100% that he HAS to go to inpatient. SS is finding too many loopholes in our plan and family members are enabling him. And he can’t be in our home so there are no other options. And the escalation while in therapy is happening.
Husband and I had plans to go to Cancun for a week in November before all this came to light and we are so undecided now. On one hand we NEED it, but one the other he is our responsibility and this is NOT good timing.
I pray he goes to inpatient not only for his benefit but for ALL of us. We ALL need to heal. We ALL need the separation to work on ourselves and the whole family. SS needs more intensive help and 24/7 supervision than we can provide. I don’t know if inpatient will help but I do know that what we are doing is not helping. So we have to do something else.
Given everything you've said Sumsky, your SS needs to go to inpatient for everyones sake. Regardless of his diagnosis, he needs to be where he will get the help he requires, whether that help works or not. You've done all you can. If the Therapists are 100% behind inpatient, won't that be the outcome? Or does CYS make the final choice? Presuming he does go to inpatient, when will that occur? Will it happen before your trip to Cancun? Can you move your trip a bit down the road so you can be available until SS goes to inpatient, or is the inpatient decision further down the road?
I hope for your sake that SS goes to inpatient and you're able to keep your travel plans because you need to get away. That seems like the ideal outcome for everyone now.
I hope for your sake that SS goes to inpatient and you're able to keep your travel plans because you need to get away. That seems like the ideal outcome for everyone now.
I have no idea at this point who makes the call for inpatient or how long this will take. There is so much up in the air. Therapists are having a hard time making husband see the situation for what it really is. He still wants to ‘protect’ SS from the consequences. He still keeps saying SS is not a bad kid, he is just making some bad decisions. He still feels that I just don’t want to deal with him. The therapists have tried to get him to see things from my perspective, from my daughters perspective.... I am hopeful that between CYS and therapists that it will be taken out of husbands hands. And that is how I understood what the therapists were saying. That being said, CYS for our county is a real wild card. So that concerns me too. I really think husband wants SS to go and knows he needs to go but would carry too much guilt to be the one that does it. I think he wants someone to do it for him.
Unfortunately, our trip can not be changed. There is a group of 30 of us going. One of our best friends are renewing their vows and my husband is ‘best man’. We feel that no matter what we choose for vacation, we are letting someone down.
Unfortunately, our trip can not be changed. There is a group of 30 of us going. One of our best friends are renewing their vows and my husband is ‘best man’. We feel that no matter what we choose for vacation, we are letting someone down.
Thanks for the response. I see the conundrum you're in. A waiting game with a wild card.......completely out of your hands.....
You still have a bit of time before your vacation, hopefully, this will be resolved before that. If not, perhaps before you leave, you'll be able to get enough information as to if and when inpatient will happen. More waiting without clarity as to which way you can go. Geez, I'm sorry. Your life is so disrupted and has been for such a long time as a result of SS. I really hope this resolves for all of you with him going to inpatient.
I'm keeping you and your family in my prayers Sumsky. Hang in there, I know the uncertainty is horrific now......take care of yourself as you wait.
You still have a bit of time before your vacation, hopefully, this will be resolved before that. If not, perhaps before you leave, you'll be able to get enough information as to if and when inpatient will happen. More waiting without clarity as to which way you can go. Geez, I'm sorry. Your life is so disrupted and has been for such a long time as a result of SS. I really hope this resolves for all of you with him going to inpatient.
I'm keeping you and your family in my prayers Sumsky. Hang in there, I know the uncertainty is horrific now......take care of yourself as you wait.
Elsi
Well-Known Member
That’s what we all want to believe about the kids we love. But the only way they will learn to stop making bad decisions is by facing the consequences of those decisions. The best way to turn a ‘good kid making bad decisions’ into a bad adult making bad decisions is to keep protecting them from the natural consequences of their actions.
I actually don’t find ‘good people’ and ‘bad people’ to be meaningful categories. Every baby is born innocent. But as we grow we are defined by the things we actually do. What does it mean to say you are a ‘good person’ if you are continually doing things that hurt others around you? Good intentions? Good potential? What does that matter if those don’t translate into your choices?
I’m not saying anyone is totally irredeemable. We can start making better decisions at any time.
You’re in a tough spot, as stepmom. You are doing the right thing to protect your other children.
I really hope you’re able to take your trip. You need it. Hugs to you.
Copabanana
Well-Known Member
In either one of these there can be decompensation. And with decompensation there is a break down and risk to the individual himself. That is what I am saying here.
How could we have a valid opinion if the professionals who treat him face to face are having difficulty coming to a conclusion, pending testing? The point I was making is that he seems to be SUFFERING. Decompensation occurs with a personality disorder when their rigid defenses against feelings they guard against with their personality structure NO LONGER WORK to contain the feelings. This is a terrible situation. It feels terrible when the worst thing cannot be warded off.
First. We can't know. We do not know him. We have never met him. We are not his doctors.
If his doctors are unsure how can we know?
The second point is distress and risk. A crisis situation, which needs to be addressed can occur with personality disorders or with autism. There are interventions that are made to help the individual restore coping. When they are in crisis there is risk to them, and to others. It is that to which I am referring.
I am in no position, nor is anybody here, to speak to a diagnosis.
As far as the trip, I hope you can go. But the thing is, if stepson is not somewhere where he can feel safe, and in control of his emotions, and his behaviors, how can you and his father leave without stress and concern while you are away? Because as long as stepson is out of control, father will feel so, too, in his own emotions. There is no respite except for confronting the situation, I fear.
This pattern of behavior is escalating because stepson's personality, his functioning, no longer works for him. He is showing through his self-destructive behavior that he is spiraling out of control. This is a huge thing for a parent to accept.
This is the elephant in the living room. There is no escape from it. Not to Cancun. Or anywhere.
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BusynMember
Well-Known Member
Theoretically there is no way to test medically for any psychiatric disorder. None. Inexact science. The DSM is not proof.
I believe there are bad people. Charles Manson, Ted Bundy, Jefferey Dahmer, many others. Then there are in my opinion people lacking empathy who dont kill but prey on people sexually, emotionally, economically. Can they change? Im not sure. Nobody is sure. There is thought that those without emparhy such as antisocial and narcisim dont feel bad for what they do so they cant or wont change. If you have no empathy what makes one change? What is tje motivation? These people tend to think they are right and others ate wrong about them and they are often very defensove if you challenge them. I had a borderline mom, but even more.....
Its true none of us can diagnose Ss. Actually nobody can prove what he does or doesnt have because there are no blood tests.
But it isnt hard to see when certain people dont care about others or CANT care. Ive met spooky people, some in my family, who care about nobody but them. I think my Dad and Bart are/was narcicistic. Bart has done worse than I would ever put here but its scary. Same with Dad. I would be afraid to live with my beloved son because I know he has little to no empathy for others and could be dangerous. I bless the Universe each day for my other three angels. They refuse to deal with Bart. Bart doesnt care as he never cares if even family likes him or not. I worry about my grandson after learning more...but thats another thread.
So Sumsky will see if SS is a man with empathy.
In the meantime he keeps offending against other people and does not seem sorry.
Time will tell. I wish only the best. I am a fanatical realist which is hard sometimes. I never saw fairytails in bad situations. It would have been easier for me, at least for periods of time, if I had believed in the best.
Love, light and the best of luck . At this time it is luck in my opinion.
I believe there are bad people. Charles Manson, Ted Bundy, Jefferey Dahmer, many others. Then there are in my opinion people lacking empathy who dont kill but prey on people sexually, emotionally, economically. Can they change? Im not sure. Nobody is sure. There is thought that those without emparhy such as antisocial and narcisim dont feel bad for what they do so they cant or wont change. If you have no empathy what makes one change? What is tje motivation? These people tend to think they are right and others ate wrong about them and they are often very defensove if you challenge them. I had a borderline mom, but even more.....
Its true none of us can diagnose Ss. Actually nobody can prove what he does or doesnt have because there are no blood tests.
But it isnt hard to see when certain people dont care about others or CANT care. Ive met spooky people, some in my family, who care about nobody but them. I think my Dad and Bart are/was narcicistic. Bart has done worse than I would ever put here but its scary. Same with Dad. I would be afraid to live with my beloved son because I know he has little to no empathy for others and could be dangerous. I bless the Universe each day for my other three angels. They refuse to deal with Bart. Bart doesnt care as he never cares if even family likes him or not. I worry about my grandson after learning more...but thats another thread.
So Sumsky will see if SS is a man with empathy.
In the meantime he keeps offending against other people and does not seem sorry.
Time will tell. I wish only the best. I am a fanatical realist which is hard sometimes. I never saw fairytails in bad situations. It would have been easier for me, at least for periods of time, if I had believed in the best.
Love, light and the best of luck . At this time it is luck in my opinion.
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I agree that SS had a complete break and lost control. He was cornered with no chance of lying or manipulating his way out of it. Now today he is acting like nothing even happened, laughing, talking, joking around. Like everything that happened is forgotten. I am still furious, disappointed and stressed. He completely ‘freaked out’ when his dad confronted him and did not trust him to give up the phone. He also lost control when he knew the police where being called. But not that those things have ‘been resolved’ he’s fine again. No care in the world attitude. I complete disgust when he is like this. There is absolutely NO remorse or even an act of it! He is completely scary in the midst of the meltdown though. We can’t risk that happening again.
We do not have a diagnosis yet. And there are some signs that could point to each of the ones suspected. However, it will be hard to convince me it is not antisocial or narcissism. He fits every area for antisocial traits. He does scare me although I refuse to let him see that. I’m just hoping and praying that this time he is going for some serious help!!!
