New to this forum...could really use HELP!!

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by bellamia, Oct 9, 2009.

  1. bellamia

    bellamia New Member

    Hi, I am happy to have found a place where there are other people who have similar "war" stories!! You can't just talk to anyone about these things....they wouldn't believe you or I have had people say it is just a discipline issue!! Anyway, on to my problem or concern!! My 12 yr old son was diagnosed at about 8 years old with Aspergers although my older son has it and I was never convinced that my younger son had it. My younger son's main issue is outrageous RAGE consider myself a strict parent..but this goes beyond any kind of discipline issue. He acts like he is "possessed"!! The most vile things come out of his mouth, he hits..etc...The interesting thing is when he is not raging, he can be the most lovable child ever!! Anyway over the course of the years, we have tried many, many medications. Buspar, Zoloft, Depakote, Trileptal, Risperdal, and lastly Abilify. None have made a difference worth talking about. Now, the doctor just gave me a script for Thorazine 25mg. Needless to say, I was horrified. I am an RN so I think it works against me sometimes. Thorazine is a scary drug to me. I have to try it tonite for first time. doctor feels we have to try this older drug since no success with the newer ones from the different categories that we have tried. SO....has anyone out there tried this medication and what are your experiences?? My son is now 12. Thank you all in advance and looking forward to a place to vent and LEARN new coping strategies....;)
  2. GoingNorth

    GoingNorth Crazy Cat Lady

    I was put on Thorazine in my teen years. I can remember that it made me very sleepy. It did help with my "outbursts".

    Actually, my psychiatrist and I are considering a trial of Haldol due to my having problems with the modern atypical antipsychotic medications.

    I guess in some cases people do cope better with the old medications, but like you, I am very leery of the side effects of this medication.

    One really tends to think of Haldol and Thorazine in terms of the old time psychiatric faciiities where patients were drugged into compliancy.
  3. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    Something which deeply concerns me, is the medical response which tried to medicate away behaviours which can often be minimised in environmental ways.

    Example (hypothetical) - let's say I have moments when I feel deeply depressed. Sometimes I wake up in the morning feeling bright, then I remember that my parents have died, the bank has foreclosed and my friends all beleive I'm a nasty person. I suddenly feel very, very depressed.
    I COULD go to the doctor and ask for medication. All that will do is (partly) numb the meotional pain. WHile it is doingthis, maybe it will make it a little easier to deal with the underlying problems, should I choose to do this. But with the pain numbed, it makes it easier for me to simply while away each day, lurching from crisis to crisis.
    OR - I could use the pain I feel and try to lessen it in more effective ways. Grief over parents deaths - find grief counselling, sometimes it's too much to handle on your own. Bank foreclosing - get some financial advice, fast. Often talking to the bank can ease a financial burden. At the very least you will KNOW more about what to expect and not have your imagination making it seem even worse. Reality is almost always easier to cope with. And everybody beleiving I'm a nasty person - why has this happened? Time to find out and (if possible) dispel the nasty stories. If, after explaining myself, I still have people who hate me - then let them. Their approval may have been important to me in the past but if they will so readily beleive lies and not allow me to make amends for any wrongs, then I don't need friendship from people like that.
    So wwe have two possible outcomes -
    1) medicated assistance with maybe some improvement, if we use the easing of severe symptoms to work on the problems; or
    2) easing of symptoms because we worked on the problems.

    Either way - you need to work on the underlying problems. medications are a tool, not a cure. All medications will do is mask the problems to a varying extent. And this is not always successful, even in part.

    We use what we can. But we live in a medicalised society, we expect doctors to have amagic bullet for everything. And it's just not so.

    We do use medications in our household. But not as a cure, but more to manage what can be managed. The rest, we have to find behavioural ways to manage. We're not always successful. Our kids will always have Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD). There is no cure. But there IS living with it, learning to not only manage it but learning to find the advantages and joys behind it.

    I understand you feeling horrified by the increasingly stronger medications. Your parental instinct is kicking in. The doctor, on the other hand, is thinking in medical terms. It's what doctors do - you go to the doctor, say, "We have problem X," doctor reaches for the big book of medicaitons available for this or that, says, "We have a pill for tat now," and writes a prescription. You both separate, each feeling you have done your job.

    Meanwhile there is the child - the world is a confusing, scary place because he is lacking the ability to instantly understand and absorb social learning. He is probably extremely intelligent in other ways, able to do some amazing feats of mental dexterity. But the world of human behaviour is confusing to him. There seem to be no rules to flollw, despite what people around him say. There are rules in science, rules in maths. A triangle always has three sides. Its internal angles always add up to 180 degrees. So why are people so confusing?

    A kid like this will get angry and beleive people are deliberately trying to confuse him to make him angry. Anger is common and understandable. You will get rages.

    A kid like this develops their own coping strategy (although changing medications can interfere with this,causes more confusion sometimes). Part of the coping strategy, often, is to use rules. To choose certain behaviours and activities that feel safe and comfortable. To have a routine tat the child can predict. "At 7 pm we have dinner. At 8 pm I watch Simpsons on TV. At 8.30 pm I go have my bath." And so on. Vary this, especially without warning, and you have rages.

    Read as much as you can on this site. One of the irst things you will read, is the way we recommend "The Explosive Child" by Ross Greene. It's a very helpful book in teaching YOU how to find a more effective, more productive and less painful way of dealing with your child.

    You alreayd understand the world (better than he does) so YOU need to be his tour guide. You should not be the authority figure, he has a world full of them all giving conflicting instructions. What he needs is a facilitator. The book teaches you how, and how to do it more easily than what you're trying to do now (which feels like beating your head against a wall, it's about that productive and painful).

    Read the book. Take what feels right, ignore the rest. Talk to us here. Pick brains. Many of us are on the same journey. In our family, we also have multiple Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) diagnoses. As I keep saying, autism doens't just run in our family, it gallops.

    Welcome. Sorry you need us but glad we're here.

  4. Wiped Out

    Wiped Out Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Welcome to our corner of the world. Glad you found us but sorry you needed to. My difficult child is another who didn't do well with any of the newer APs. He takes Loxapine which has been more helpful than any of the others-it's far from perfect (makes him very tired at times and depending on his dosage sometimes he is slurring his words).

    I hope you are finding time to take care of you as well and are able to find time to recharge your batteries. Again welcome!
  5. totoro

    totoro Mom? What's a GFG?

    I think Marg makes some very good points.
    We try to keep K's medications as low as possible with behaviour therapy, for all of us as the most important thing.
    It is so hard and it is a very long journey but we have seen so many changes since taking this attitude.
    I don't know what kinds of therapy you, difficult child and the family are in or have tried?
    Even my Daughters Horse Therapy has done wonders.

    Welcome and please share more with us! :)
  6. slsh

    slsh member since 1999

    Hi Bellamia and welcome! So glad you found us.

    We were given thorazine when my difficult child was 7 or 8, as a prn medication during rages. I think we successfully got it into him once. It basically knocked him out. I thought it was a pretty poor strategy all around. A raging kid is not going to be compliant with medication taking, and putting him to sleep (basically chemically restraining him) didn't/doesn't seem to me to be a terribly effective way to deal with- the behaviors.

    Since we only used it the one time, I don't know what would have happened more long term, but I suspect, like Klonopin and Mellaril before it (both of which were daily medications for him), we would have had a couple of days of sedation and then his body/brain would have accommodated it and it would have had no effect at all.

    Risperdal (sometimes at pretty huge doses) was the most consistently effective medication for my kid. Didn't end the rages, nothing ever did, but it at least keep them more manageable most of the time. When he hit his teens, a psychiatrist added propranolol to the mix. Long story short, after several months of severe instability in an Residential Treatment Center (RTC), including the need for multiple chemical restraints weekly (we're talking broken windows, assaulting staff, etc.), the psychiatrist threw this out as an option to hopefully break the cycle of the raging and restraints. He was already on comparatively low-dose Risperdal (for him), the ever-present Depakote, and I think Geodon and Neurontin (but don't quote me on those 2). Anyway, I don't know if it was just that it was time for something to click for him or if it was the propranolol, but he had a pretty quick turn around in terms of intensity of his raging. It's of course an off-label use but... it worked.

    The hard thing is that medication management is 99% art and only 1% science (in my opinion anyway ;) ) - our kids can react so differently to the same medications. But I thought I'd throw out the idea of propranolol - you never know.

    Anyway, again - welcome!
  7. hoobear

    hoobear Guest

    My difficult child was put on Thorazine several years ago for a short period. His reaction was to fall asleep at school, so we discontinued it. He is currently on seroquel and Lamictal (among others, check my sig below) for his rages due to AS and BiPolar (BP). Hope things work out for you and welcome to the board.