newbie, concerned possible ODD,ADHD-suggestions?

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by w0rriedm0m, Dec 4, 2009.

  1. w0rriedm0m

    w0rriedm0m New Member

    hi everyone, new here.I have a 3y4m old
    I am becoming increasingly concerned.
    He had early intervention at 18 months for slow to walk/toe walking. He was evaluated and recived in home help for speech PT and Occupational Therapist (OT).
    He has delayed gross fine and sppech.and also toe walked. He has NO eye contact issues. He doesnt havbe sensory issues with food, or clothing or light or sound. He seems to be a sensory seeker in terms of texture,he likes to touch screens or velcro. he doesnt seek it out, but if he touches it he does tend to make a "growling noise". But it is a short time. His play habits are slowly progressing. He really doesnt seek out toys to "play". He loves to climb at the park and has always loved to swing, alot. He does tend to focus on his dad's recreational vehicles when outside, his dad "fixes" these as a side business.
    He was then evaluated with the early childhood for 3 yr old when he was 2.5 and he was hard to test completely due to inattention. which of course they arent sure if it is just his AGE.
    But he got in the early childhood program this fall and has a class of 6 little ones. At parent teacher conference they said he is doing well. They do have issues with attention span,and staying focused. and just recently he has began hitting when he is reprimanded.last 2 weeks. He has done this at home, too,and as much as I hate to say< I hope it is just because I have been really stressed at home with- his behavior and have been inconsistent,(my husband travels for work) we normally time out, 1,2,3 first) and he does sit for the time outs.
    they use this at school also.
    I am worried it is ODD. He has recently not listened to his great aunt, as well, who is his ,occasional babysitter.I have since really focused my frustration so that I keep it in check.
    My first thoughts were Sensory Integration, but as school progressed, I'm thinking ADHD. WHICH his Occupational Therapist (OT) "thinks" he may have a little of both.
    I have often been concerned with his overstimulation when visitors like gparents come to visit. He has also had a drooling issue,and occasionally bites, it is so NOT trying to hurt someone, it is like he NEEDS to bite down on something. So we always have teethers nearby.He has not bitten at school.
    His speech is finally in sentences and is understood 90% of the time which is super!
    They have told me at school typically kids arent tested this young for ADHD.
    My suspicion is he has all these things based on his "head circumference" is smaller than average. We had his head MRI early on and everything looked normal. NO ONe ever told us what "could become an issue" for him as far as Learning delays or etc. I have just researched ALL this myself. My husbands head is smaller than avg,too. He has avg to above avg intelleigence. Of course we only know his head size because we measured it!
    I am just looking for support.
    His not listening is the most frustrating.I find that I have to be very careful how I ask for things to happen,which I guess is transitions,as well as self help-- such as get your coat,and put it on. seems he will run around and do everything but what I ask.
    He just seems to not be paying attention. I try to look him in the face so he isn't yelled at from across the room.My husband seems to think he is being stubborn.
    I know his speech teacher said he is often very distracted in her room. It is a small space very very cluttered. He has trouble looking at her to imitate because he is fidgeting or trying to go get "something".
    Thanks for listening. We are in WI. Any information you have would be appreciated.
    I just want my child helped before his in first grade and learning is harderb/c so much is expected of them by them,and making friends is hard-when you are the one always in "trouble".
  2. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Hi there, from middle Wisconsin!!!,:D and welcome to the board. First and foremost I would NOT test him through school only. They tend to be very poor at spotting anything beyond ADHD and often call things ADHD when it isn't. I would give this one over to professionals who have nothing to do with the school and can properly diagnose. There are many things that look like ADHD. An Occupational Therapist (OT) is not able to diagnose childhood disorders. If you want to know where I'd take him PM me. I'm not allowed to give a recommendation on the board.

    To be honest, with what I know now, if this were my child I'd keep a sharp eye out for autistic spectrum disorder, high functioning. He has tons of red flags. It is hard to get that diagnosis at his young age, unless it is very extreme, but I would think it is more likely that, or something that mimics that, than ODD, which almost never stands alone anyway. He has enough similarities to consider it. Of course, it could be a mimicker, but I'd want him thoroughly evaluated. My son has this and had a slew of wrong diagnosis. first from ADHD/ODD to bipolar. He was put on a ton of medications he didn't need and had side effects up the old wazoo.

    I would ask for school interventions and I'd take him to see a neuropsychologist. They do very intensive testing and cover every disorders. Schools do not. I've seen both. Schools do lah-de-dah testing with emphasis on things like IQ, which won't tell you what is wrong. Your son has subtle symptoms...I'd want somebody who is very thorough to check it out. And then I'd keep having him checked every year. Toe walking and speech delays and sensory flags. Also, my son didn't play with toys much (not a good imagination). He also loved to swing and jump on the trampoline (sensory). Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) kids are often tested for hearing loss because they often seem as if they aren't listening or they don't respond to their own name or they sometimes seem in their own world. My son was a whirlwind at that age and he did have his hearing checked, but it was normal. He just had that normal Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) spaciness, which goes beyond ADHD spaciness (but ADHD inattention is part of it as well).

    Does your son ever copy what he hears on television or from what others say? Does he have any strange quirks? Does he interact with his little peers appropriately or does he push them or ignore them or scare them with loud noises? How does he do with crowds and stimulation?

    Others will come along. Good luck, whatever you decide.
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2009
  3. SRL

    SRL Active Member

    Hi and welcome to our forum.

    I agree with Midwestmom that there's enough going on to have a full workup done on him by a pediatric neuropsychologist or developmental pediatrician. At this age with these issues I'd really want to have the fullest picture I could.

    I'd also suggest picking up a copy of the book What Your Explosive Child Is Trying to Tell You: Discovering the Pathway from Symptoms to Solutions by Dr. Douglas Riley.

    We recommend to nearly all parents who come here that get a copy of the book The Explosive Child by Ross Greene as so many of us have been helped by it. There's a thread at the top of this board to help adapt it to younger children.

    Again, welcome. I hope you'll find good help and support here. :)
  4. w0rriedm0m

    w0rriedm0m New Member

    I wanted to mention about the toewalking. They told me it is from tight heel cords. Is this a "normal" thing for red flag for Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD)?
    He went to an orthopedic surgeon and had botox and castings done last summer(2yrs) to stretch them. He is walking normal now,with a slight problem picking up one toe. so he does alot of stumbling.
    I must also say that we have CMT in the family which this is very common with. (CHARCOT-MARIE -TOOTH DISEASE)neuromuscular disease.

    As far as the questions, he does not mimic/copy things he hears
    strange quirks? none other than what I mentioned. Do you have any things to suggest I think about?
    As far as playing with peers, he has played well,he has tended to be clumsy and bump into peers if in a small setting like circle time, but it isnt intentionally "ramming".
    I will admit I am highly stressed during playgroup because I am not entirely sure what he will do. He has bitten a friend just from being close enough that its like he is hugging and out come the teeth.:(
    he also seems to occasionally target(altho I dont know if that is the right word) small toddlers. You know the busy 18 month old, that walk and play but arent quite verbal yet. He will be playing in the same room and say,"I hit ____childs name."
    so for us we are thankful that he says this.He will also say this when he gets hurt or if the dog nips at him. As for the biting we just USUALLY HEAR him get silly. It usually happens when he is rough housing.
    Again-thanks for any replies!!!!!!
    I have already put those books on hold at the library and have never taken the school Occupational Therapist (OT) diagnosis to heart, because I know it is just an opinion.
    Right now we are just happy that he is there. I feel in my gut there is alot going on. So far the school has not mentioned what they "think". The sppech teacher agreed with me when I said I was "concerned about ADHD".
    My husband the other day actually said to me, "are you sure there is actually something WRONG with- him"? I wanted to say - "are you serious????":mad:
  5. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    I'm with MWM on the possibility of autism. It is a spectrum disorder which means that every kid is different and you won't necessrily get all the classic features. For example my younger son never had the toe walking or hand flapping, and has always made good eye contact especially with people he knows well. But there were other subtleties which, especially as he got older, became more apparent.

    You are responding to your own gut instincts, which are very reliable as a rule. Don't lose faith in yourself.

    What to do - first, try to organise a private neuropsychologist assessment. Not cheap but worth it. The Dept of Ed or the school will have something similar but from experience it often falls far short of really identifying the real problems underneath. Also to do (which I think you have done) - speech pathology assessment. With the toe walking, an Occupational Therapist (OT) assessment or physiotherapy assessment may be woth considering. Keep copies of all reports because they record a snapshot of your child's development in that area at this point in his life. Even if the problem settles completely, you need a record of how things were, so that an accurate diagnosis can be made at a later stage.

    High-functioning autism is not necessarily bad news. It does mean that you would need to change the way you handle him, you would need to adapt to the way his brain learns best in order to raise him. What works with "normal" kids often backfires badly with these kids. But there are other ways that work brilliantly with these kids.

    Have a look at, read around a bit then look for their Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) questionnaire. DO the test (it's not officially diagnostic but it will help you think about the possibility) then whatever the result, print it and take it to the child's doctor. Keep a copy.

    Keep a diary, write down your observations of your child. There are a lot of other things you can do, whatever the problem may be, to maximise the outcome.

    My youngest autistic son is almost 16 now, and doing amazingly. He "failed" his first IQ test (because of his language delay) but is now working his way through mainstream education and doing especially well in his best subjects - he scored 99% for his recent Computing Studies exam. Socially he's also making wonderful progress, but he does need different handling, the usual "because I said so, that's why" kind of parenting is disastrous and WILL produce the ODD signs you are seeing now.

    You can turn that around. Get hold of "The Exposive Child" by Ross Greene and read it. Also read the sticky on the top of this page.

    It will help.

    Let us know how you get on.


    Meanwhile there are things you can put in place
  6. mimix2

    mimix2 New Member

    Worried mom,

    We are in the same boat! I just joined and am concerned for my 4 year old for some of the same reasons you mentioned her! I don't have any answers or advice for you, but want you to know that I am here to listen and I KNOW HOW YOU FEEL! Please keep me posted on your progress, I hope that you and I can help each other find a diagnosis and a plan for our little boys!
  7. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    Mimix2, welcome on board! You've got the idea of how it works here! Do a sig for yourself when you can, and start your own thread so we can get to know you.