Please Help, So very lost

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by LalaSmitty, Apr 30, 2016.

  1. LalaSmitty

    LalaSmitty New Member

    Well, I am new here. Hi. I am trying to figure out what our next step should be for our ten year old. He has been diagnosed with many things and takes medications.
    Our son has been in a Residential Treatment Center (RTC) and got kicked out after he broke his arm attacking a staff member. He is very violent and aggressive (both verbally and physically). He has been threatening to kill me and then himself. He has laid out his plans and keeps making them bigger and more precise. No one is listening to our concerns. He is in various therapies. The psychiatrist refuses to see him stating he can't help bahvioral issues and poor choices. The play therapist is aghast at what he is saying and tells me she just doesn't know. We've had in home services which stopped due to him attacking the worker. I'm running out of options. I don't know how to do this anymore. He is a threat to his brother 3 and his sister 1. Not to mention, I'm scared of what he is saying turning into actions.
    I'm really considering signing over my rights but feel dreadful and hateful towards myself for even thinking it, yet I would feel worse if any of these threats had actions placed to them.
    I'm so lost and unsure of what to do. I don't feel I can help him with out it being a danger to us all...
    Any suggestions or advice is welcome.
  2. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    I cannot imagine a psychiatrist saying this about a 10 year old. This is a child being driven by something he does not understand nor control.
    Have you thought about calling Child Protective Services? Your other children are in danger. They need to be protected. Your son needs to be protected from himself.

    Even if your son needs to be placed out of home in a specialized setting, this would be for his good, and that of the family.

    What I might do is call a family attorney and discuss the options with them before you decide on any one course.

    The school district has obligations here too to pay for residential treatment, to educate him in a setting where he can learn and others are safe.

    The last thing I think is that your son is choosing this. Something is happening within him that he cannot control and cannot understand. He needs help. You know that. I know that.

    I believe that first, he would need to be contained in a setting outside of the home. Think about the stress on him of what is happening internally and the stresses of wanting to act it out. He could not as a 10 year old child have intent or understanding of the things he fantasizes or plans to carry out.

    I would take him to a regional Childrens hospital. There you will find neuropsychologists who will give him a battery of tests, psychiatrists and neurologists all specializing in children. I would not rule out something neurological, even a tumor or seizures.
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  3. PiscesMom

    PiscesMom Active Member

    what kind of Residential Treatment Center (RTC) is he at? my son is at his second. and the first was a crap for profit place that maybe stabilized him for a bit. please don't give up hope - i have been all over the place this week, now much more hopeful. anyway - enough about me, ... you might be in for a long tired road - but i am wondering about the quality of help he is getting? can you tell us more - without being too specific of course? ( oops, sounds like he is not at an Residential Treatment Center (RTC) right now) - and Copa is right in what she says.
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  4. LalaSmitty

    LalaSmitty New Member

    He was in a behavioral health unit in two separate places. He goes to a therapeutic school for behaviors due to being kicked out of 3 public schools. He has had 3 psychiatrist, 2 play therapist, 3 BHIS workers, and 2 social workers. We've been at this for for almost five years now medically and the behaviors started 3 years old.
    I'm trying to find a new psychiatrist fit him because the current one has said that multiple times now and cancelled the last two appts stating he didn't have time to see my son today for his behavioral issues.
    I know there isn't a magical fix. I just don't know what to do.
    I have signed up for a waiver program and many other services. Many of these services claim they don't deal with those kind of behaviors.
  5. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    The behaviors in themselves are not the key, it is what is fueling them. Personally I think you will not be served by therapists who only deal with the behaviors instead of the feelings and emotions behind them.
  6. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    This is a dangerous situation for you and your two other kiddos. Did he have extreme chaos and disruption of caregivers in his early years? He sounds a lot like a child with serious reactive attachment disorder, but there are other possibilities. What about his genetics...any violence or mental health issues on either side of his DNA profile? Even if he has never met his biological father, he is 50 percent of him biologically and that matters. Has he ever been in a position where perhaps somebody abused him? I did foster care and his behavior is extremely violent even considering the fosters I had who were his age. I would not keep him at home. You have other kids. You do not need a lawyer to place hom in foster care. You need to call Social Services.
    Right now, if he harms or molests your younger kids, you could lose all of them. If he harms a neighbor, you are responsible. Put an alarm on your sons door so you know when he leaves his room at night. Make sure your other kids lock their doors eachbnight. Dont leave him alone with them...ever. Lock your door too...he has threatened to kill you.

    Please do whatever you must to be safe and ro keep your young ones safe. Is there a dad in the picture? A SO? You need to reach out to social services for help.

    We adopted a boy and we had to sever the adoption, but he had already harmed my younger kids and killed two pets. Don't live the nightmare we did. Good luck.
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  7. Praecepta

    Praecepta Active Member

    I would have no problem with you choosing to sign over your parental rights. You have done MUCH more than anyone can expect of you. If that is the only solution to this situation, then you simply have to do what you have to do.

    So I say do it then get on with your life.
  8. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    After rereading, am going to take a guess that ten year olds father is different from 3 and 1 year olds and that his dad probably passed along some bad genes that are causing this boy's uncontrollable behavior...unless some trauma happened to this son three years ago.

    3 and 1 are too young to let you know if 10 is touching them inappropriately. I would have both sleep with you and their dad in a locked room until you have an out of house solution to the ten year old.

    As one who lived through hello with a very disturbed child, I urge you not to take any chances. You would have more options if he were an only child....but he isnt. He needs help, but away from your home where he can hurt the babies (or you and hub). Ok, ill shut up now. Please take care.
  9. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    No. You do not need a lawyer but I would want to know the potential consequences of an action I took before not after.

    For example, by calling CPS/Child services, they could step in and take the younger kids. It is possible. I would want to know the potential repercussions first, not after.
    The thing is, decisions and actions we take while in the past can haunt us our whole lives. For example, I know a woman who gave a child up for adoption who never got over the regret as long as I knew her. I know women haunted by abortions. Others do not think twice.

    I say, do everything now, to understand what the consequences will be. For your son, you, the rest of the family--the potential disaster can arrive now, or years hence.

    If you give up your son, how will your other children feel one day when they understand? Will they feel that they could be given up, too?

    My son is adopted. I spoke some time back of giving up a dog of ours, who I love. Romy. My son said: How can you give him up? He is yours. This is his home. You have had him for too long to turn your back on him.

    I sensed he was talking about himself.

    He is not a child, I replied.

    Yes it is the same, said my son.

    What I am suggesting is to think through and investigate all options and think through the consequence for you, your son, your children and the family, both now and in the future. Yours is not an easy situation to say the least, but there may be answers. It is to search for them.

    I know what I would do is to try to find professional help that was that--help. What you have right now is not helping you.

    If you are a spiritual/religious person I might speak with a pastor/priest/rabbi, if there is somebody with whom you feel close and trust.
  10. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    I agree with SWOT about protecting the younger children and yourself,but she and I do not see eye to eye about genetic influences.
    There are mental illnesses that have a strong genetic component, this is true. However I would not automatically go there without evaluating for other things. I think you need to go first to a regional children's hospital to get the best help you can. There, too, you can find a genetics counselor to help you to uncover and understand any potential genetic component.

    I still think the possibility of a neurological basis needs to be considered.

    I do agree with SWOT about the need to consider some past incident of abuse of which you do not know. A good psychologist at the Children's hospital would know how to go about dealing with this possibility.
  11. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    And, as one who suffered the consequences having a much older child hurt my very young ones, to me there is only one solution. The kids will understand that it was done for their safety.we are the adults and have to protect our children from dangers, even if it is a dangerous sibling. My kids know this.

    Every decision we make can not be ananlyzed and asked"what if?" If there is a person who lives in your house threatening to kill anyone in the family, you act safely first then deal with the other stuff later.

    Not everyone can afford an attorney. This can be handled by social services. Putting a child who is dangerous into foster care will not result in all the kids being removed.

    There are other kids involved here. It is different if there is only one. Nobody wants to risk two babies being hurt. You have not gone through it.

    As for genetics, I am not "feeling" the issue. Scientifically genetics have been proven to be important. Mental illness in the family is a red flag to watch your loved ones. Doesn't mean a sure thing, but it matters.

    I am going to choose not to discuss this with you anymore.

    However, I do advise to the poster to please have this child get his treatment out of the home. That is the best advice I can give. Comes from tragic first hand knowledge. Once your babies are safe, you can deal with other things later on. It is a mess if you find out toi late that child, say, molested them...or worse...tried to choke them. A friend who had a foster child had the choke thing going on. You need to all be safe, son included.

    Take care.
  12. LalaSmitty

    LalaSmitty New Member

    Yes, I am married and have been for almost eleven years. My husband and I have been dealing with this. And it is hard on our relationship. Our son is very difficult and it is stressful.
    No he didn't have a disruption in care early on in life. He has not been abused. He has had a fairly "normal" childhood. He is well provided for.
    As for being both of his parents, that in its self is tricky. My husband is his dad, however, my son is a product of an MST. So I do not know anything other than that the man had to have something wrong with him.
    I have been trying to get him help for his emotional well being and for his behaviors. The therapist he has been seeing just told us today that she doesn't feel that she can help him and is going to refer us out.
    I am just feeling really down and out. I can't seem to find him the help he so terribly needs.
    The sad thing is, he can be a great kid. We lovingly refer to him as the Hulk when describing these behaviors. He can be the best kid and then it's like a switch has went off and he is no longer there. It is sickening to not have answers and to have doctors and therapist not want to help address the issues. He already has an extensive file and hasn't even reached his teenage years. I am truly afraid of those years to come, that is if we can't figure this out before hand.
  13. LalaSmitty

    LalaSmitty New Member

    Also I have called and am waiting for a call back from Boys town and Children's to seek help from them. I truly am looking into all and any services available to him and us.
    Thank you both for responding.
    I have a lot to figure out while he is in the hospital for the next few days.
    Thanks again.
  14. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    I believe everybody benefits from thinking things through. Of course, in a dangerous situation and this is one, safety first.

    If the mother assesses danger, the source of the danger, son must leave the home immediately to an emergency placement. This mother is questioning whether to relinquish parental rights permanently, in order to protect her children. If this is her decision, so be it. If it is a means to get out of a problem now, and it may cause her or her children unnecessary anguish later, I am only saying to think it through first. While the child is in a foster or other emergency placement.

    If you have decided to relinquish parental rights now, nobody can judge you. SWOT is right. Your obligation is to all of your children. If your son becomes part of the system he will still have people looking out for his welfare. SWOT believes you can make it right with your other children, because you are protecting them.

    I do not think it is necessarily so simple. SWOT successfully dealt with this situation. I am not so sure that it is cut and dried. I hope so.

    Everybody is urging this mother to act to make her younger kids safe. To urge a course of action on somebody who you do not know, whose situation you do not know through more than an interact post, just because it worked for me, is not in my mind the best course.

    Yes. Make your younger kids safe. That we are all saying. But once that action is taken, when you have the possibility of reflection, think through all possible courses of action, your stamina and potential sources of support (or not), and take action that you can live with now and later.

    I do not know what that would be because I do not know you. The right course of action is that which is right for you and for your family. Not necessarily what I did or did not do.
    Of course this is so. If older son is in a temporary setting there will be time to reflect. If this mother has already decided to relinquish custody or parental rights, and she seeks here a sort of permission to do so, which is to say, validation, nobody here will be living the consequences with her. Nobody responsibly can say do it; by that I mean, let your child go forever. Absolutely I endorse safety for you and all of your kids.

    The only right decision is that which this mother decides.
    No. Probably not. But I can envision a situation where a social worker is told that the 2 youngest are in danger. That social worker has the right to handle that in a variety of ways. If there is imminent danger there is no leeway.
    A call to a legal aid service while the older son is in respite care is free.
    No. I have not gone through it. It does not mean I want two babies to be hurt. I am coming from the position of minimizing hurt now and later. But most of all I believe this mother has a right and responsibility to decide for herself.
  15. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    You are welcome Lala, or Smitty if you prefer.

    We are here for you. Please keep us posted.
  16. LalaSmitty

    LalaSmitty New Member

    Lala ;)
  17. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    This seems to be a key point. What was he like before this? And what kinds of things were going on in his life at that age?

    Were you a stay-at-home mom when he was small, or did he have caregivers? Even occasional baby-sitters? I know you don't feel like he has been abused, but unless he was always under your direct care, you really can't know that. At age 3, it would have been very difficult for him to communicate such things. And age three is extremely young for serious mental health issues to be showing up. I've heard of it at puberty, sometimes as young as 8 or so - not that it is impossible, but rather that other things are more probable.
  18. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    What is this, I am guessing a sperm donor. I will google. But then why would the donor have necessarily something wrong?

    My sister had her twins by a donor. My son is adopted. Both parents had issues. Serious ones. We have been dealing with it from the beginning.

    LaLa, believe me you are not alone with this.
    This even more makes me think there may be something neurological going on and something is happening in his brain to turn to another channel. Like a seizure or something. If he is hospitalized now, can you ask that a pediatric neurologist be called in to consult?

    Something is happening to him that he does not understand. That seems clear. It does not sound wilful or chosen.
    This makes me sick. If I was his doctor I would hope I would be on the computer googling and searching until I got to the bottom of this. These therapists and doctor need to admit they do not know because of their own limits, not because of your son's.
    You will figure this out and you will do what is necessary. I believe that.

    How involved is the school? Will they pay for residential treatment? Many school districts will.

    In large cities in the USA there are disability rights organizations that will give parents a free attorney to advocate for their kids at IEPs. In our case my son from 6th or 7th grade on my son got placement in a therapeutic school (he lived at home but they transported him 45 minutes each way by taxi to a different county.)

    Remember this. Every time you reach an impasse, start a new thread and ask the community of parents. I am amazed at the depth and breadth of knowledge here on this site and we will all of us understand your pain and worry and fear.
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  19. Copabanana

    Copabanana Well-Known Member

    Then Lala, it is.
  20. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Ah ok. My first was also frim a MSD. Interesting most dont discuss it. My son is in his 30s and knows and seems extremely disinterested. The times it gets brought up he just casually says, "dad is my dad period."

    I am windering if your son has seen a neuropsychologist. One of my adopted sons, whom we had little info on, had been repeatedly misdiagnosed by psychiatrists so we took him to a neuropsychologist. Wow. All the forms we had to fill out and the ten hours of testing was well worth it. We got our answers when he was 11 and at age 22 he is doing great. Now he had learning issues and social issues, not behavior problems, but we were still going batty trying to figure it out. All we got were medications he didnt need and diagnosis. he didnt have. He is on the autism spectrum.
    It is harder for anyone to diagnose when they dont have the history of both birth parents and we had next to nothing. So the neuropsycologist had less to work with but he got it right and everything improved after that.
    I sure hope you can figure things out. Hugs!!!