So very mad!

Discussion in 'The Watercooler' started by Tiapet, Mar 15, 2013.

  1. Tiapet

    Tiapet Old Hand

    I know my difficult children are a lot of things and can do a lot of things. Right now I'm so very angry I could spit nails and disappointed too. Hurt. Mr. busy......

    I know he has issues, big issues. I know he steals stuff from us like foods he shouldn't have due to his food allergy certain other things around the house like tools even though he has a ton of his own, oldest difficult child tablet at times, the girls bras, etc...but this time...OMG! He has gone overboard and way to far.

    He's been wanting a computer. He got a tiny laptop last summer from a garage sale that was useless as it had no hard drive. He got his cell for Christmas but after repeated hacking of the parental controls and not being able to circumvent him from doing it any how we tried we finally just had to take it away. Not only that but he's been repeatedly trying to access Google play to buy games or download games that he shouldn't anyway he can (part of why he keeps stealing difficult child's tablet).

    So today I find email alert about bank balance being low on SO account that I know should no way be low. I'm freaking out. I check on it. I find there are transactions that don't make sense and tell him to look (I can't literally look only he can). As I suspected, in the pit of my stomach, mr busy did something. The reason I suspected it was him when they were suspicious is that the other day I found the bank card carelessly loose in a place it shouldn't have been and never is. There is a particular reason I suspected him since he's been doing all the above and wanting games and a laptop.

    SO goes to his bank immediately after seeing the pending transactions to NINTENDO and TIGER direct, which immediately confirms MY suspicions. They can put an alert on it and stop but it goes to fraud department and it can take up to 10 days to get money back, if it comes back at all. In the mean time I have to call the companies and speak to them about it. Nintendo is not a friendly company in that respect to trying to get it back. NO money back for virtual content! :( Tiger direct on the other hand, immediately blocked the purchase (which was a computer) and canceled it out. Good enough. Now we have a canceled card and have to wait for yet another card (big pain to have to reconnect any auto payments connected to them).

    This kid left basically nothing in his account! He even attempted another purchase beyond what we found but thankfully there wasn't enough for that one ($517) for a computer before the one he did actually make. So to the tune of $350 this kid fruadulantly charged out on his card! :( I am angry, upset, and disappointed as first of all I did not think he would do something like this. I know he's capable of a lot of things but not this as he's always made a point of calling his sister out when she stole money that "he would never do something like this" and she only took $20 from my wallet. HE.....went way beyond that! Angry because that's a lot of money and a huge trust to break. It's not like the kid doesn't already get stuff, plenty. He really doesn't lack for anything.

    I know he's sort of board and really wants to be doing things, having friends and such and that's where and why this is leading in this direction but we've been trying to help him find success with it. He just lacks the social skills seriously to be able to do it. He acts so inappropriately.

    So now I'm sitting here trying to think what more I can and should do. I've already placed the call to the program they just started up here that is similiar to 'scared' straight but it's quite the same to get him in. I had thought about letting him press charges but any of you who have been this route know that it's the parent that it actually comes back on and "we" pay the price, not them in the end. We have to pay the financial price, not them. What is he going to learn by that then? He needs to learn that stealing is not acceptable but how?

    He no longer will have his 3ds, hasn't had his phone. This just puts him further into his boredom since he has no friends and no outlet to do anything and so he's going to look for more trouble to get into. ~sigh~

    So now I get word that he "attempted" over $2000 worth of charges!! In TN felony is $500 and a federal felony is $1000!!! :( :( The bank's fraud department was looking for a police report but apparently this time they didn't "think" they were going to require one. God, I hope not! This is a 14 year old kid with serious mental health issues acting on impulse and I'm SURE does not understand the serious consequences of his actions!
  2. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful

    Regardless of it "coming back on the parent", I'd press charges. This is pretty serious stuff, not petty theft like digging in your wallet for a few bucks. If he gets away with this, what does that teach him? He will repeat it. Who will he choose next time? Know what I mean??

    If it were me? The boy would be working for me sun up til sun down doing every disgusting chore I could come up with to pay me back for many months to come. That is only IF I didn't decide to press charges. Odds are, something like this would've landed a kid of mine in jail. There are lines you don't cross. Ever. He just crossed one. Most likely it would be jail AND the chores......but I am strict, no nonsense and a firm believer in natural consequences.

    ((((hugs)))) I'm so sorry. I know this makes you livid, but I also know it wounds a mom's heart awfully badly too.
  3. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    I don't know how old Mr Busy is but... kids don't do well with boredom, and difficult child kids are 20x worse (at least).
    Somehow, you have to get him involved in an activity that ABSORBS him, that he can eat-breath-sleep 24/7. Which means, not sports or other stuff that is on a schedule.
  4. buddy

    buddy New Member

    My son, no matter how much I've worked on it, does not get that credit cards are real money. Whether debit or bank cards or traditional credit cards.

    I can understand how he sees his sister taking cash as real stealing. Credit cards and checks are pretty abstract.

    I sure hope this can be a learning opportunity for him and the money is returned.

    It sure stinks going thru all of that, I'm really sorry you're facing this!
  5. rejectedmom

    rejectedmom New Member

    First let me say I am so very sorry you are dealing with this. It hurts so much when our kids victimize us. in my humble opinion, He needs very real consequences and limiting his electronics isn't goingto cut it. Can you petition Juvinile Justice for an child in need of supervision? He will be treated like a parolee and have to check in and be given requirements of community service etc. I did this with my difficult child as juvinile. It helped to have another adult back me up on the serious nature of some of his actions. -RM
  6. AnnieO

    AnnieO Shooting from the Hip

    Ugh. Ugh, ugh, UGH!

    :hugs: I love Tiger Direct. They're super helpful when things go wrong.

    I agree he needs to do extra chores... And yeah, he might be bored, but he can read, Know what I mean??
  7. Tiapet

    Tiapet Old Hand

    IC, he is 14, like I said in post.

    He is an Aspie trait kid and we are learning more of how he works. We've been struggling with him a lot in the last several months on all sides. Daily to get him to go to school. That issue is because of bullying by kids but also his SPED case manager. She is not a teacher of any of his classes. She just oversees his daily stuff. He has to report to him in the morning before homeroom and then again before leaving at end of day. She is suppose to make sure he has all his assignments in order and was "suppose" to do a lot more like helping him keep his binder organized, etc. What I can say of her? Oh my wow! Where do I begin?? And please know, I'm NOT excusing this incident of what he did but more of explaining how badly this kids head is messed up right now and the boredom/frustration is.

    Let's go back to the beginning of school year when this SPED teacher wrote him up a month into the school year for talking back to her "disrespectfully" because she asked "him to get out his folder (so she could go through it)" and his reply was "let's not and say we did". Not nice but not seriously bad either. It only got worse with her from that point on through the year in how she was, how she spoke to him and how she treated him. We went back in and had a meeting and tried to address how to handle him as he has very specific triggers in handling him. She didn't seem to care. Same thing with Math teacher but for her it wasn't about him talking back as he never has, he just isn't doing the work in her class basically. Passive Resistance. Also with the math teacher apparently she keeps handing out page after page of work, some of it reptitively and offers no help (he says too fast) and then gets on him. He is not one to handle skill and drill as he is very smart and knows stuff. Gets frustrated easily when has to do things respectively. We addressed that as well but got no where. Over all, we asked for communication from the teachers and at bare minimum from the SPED teacher on any missing assignments so that we can get him to do it but it must be TIMELY so that they get in on time (even with his extra alotted time). That hasn't happened all year. The SPED teacher, in the last 2 months, committed to finally doing a weekly report on Friday's to alert us to what was missing and how he was doing. She never followed through with that so of course, he has zeros because we have no clue what's missing. about 3 weeks ago she finally started sending the case manager/worker for my son who is his mental health worker who comes to house and school a copy of this report but NOT ME! That does no good because he only goes to school 1 day a week and my house 1 day and the day he gets to me is long after the time my son could get this work done in time. The report is to come to ME! So case worker has to get it to me. I confronted her on that fact and she said she'd get them to me, again. I still am not getting them yet everyone at school is emailing me about him and not doing work in timely manner and getting zeros and how he is failing. I communicate with them that I can't help him if they don't do their part and let me know what is missing, which is what I have been telling them ALL year long! In fact each meeting I have told them repeatedly how this kid needs me to have the teachers communicate via some method every 2 days, 3 minimum or this will happen. He has NO organizational skills and we've tried all kinds of things. Last year the SPED case manager actually had to help with his binder and assignments and that worked but she was dedicated and committed to helping him and understood his deficits. This year, oh....he's old enough...he should be doing it now!.....*sigh* What's the point of IEP then?

    Also, this same SPED teacher keeps writing him up because he keeps talking back to her "disrespectfully". The latest time he yelled at her because she would not listen to him. He was out sick for a couple of days (legitimately) so she gave him a sheet with the missing work for that time. He told her, or TRIED to tell her that 1/2 the work listed on it was work he had ALREADY done in day BEFORE he went out sick and she argued with him that he did NOT do so. She demanded him to come with her to his locker to which she proceeded to search (you have to understand that he doesn't like his "things" touched) to look for other things and missing papers as well. That's when he freaked out and yelled at her. He ended up written up and then go ISS for being "disrespectful" again! From her. Turns out he WAS right, he DID do the work because when he brought sheet home with the copies of work SHE gave him, he could produce the work already done from his binder to me. Why did they give him work from days before he was out claiming it was work they did WHEN he was out? I don't know by the point is, he tried to tell her, she wouldn't listen at all to him. He got frustrated at it, it escalated.

    I know from personal experience in talking with her, as does our mental health case manager who goes in to school, she is extremely difficult and we as adults have a hard time with her. I can't imagine a 14 year old boy with issues having to deal with her day in and day out all through the year being able to keep calm and hold it in. It's no wonder he is at the state he is with her, why he doesn't want to go to school. Add in the math teacher frustration and the bullying and we have what we have!

    Like I said, that doesn't have to do with what he did with the bank card at all really but I can't see how the over all frustration of school, no friends, boredom and being very limited here at home (since we've taken most everything away from him) could lead up to his doing this. Part of it was impulsiveness of the ADD, part is immaturity and not understanding the consequences of his actions (yes he knew he was using a card that was not allowed but not the actual consequences beyond mom will be mad/money is gone), and part is "they won't give me what I want" type thinking.

    I am all for consequences, natural or other wise and he gets them. A lot!. My problem is when/if it had gone to the level of police at this point in time. Since he truly was and is not aware of what his actions would have brought on him, I can't see how allowing a 14 yr to be charged with a felony will serve any purpose? Charging him yes, a felony? NO! This is a lot different then a child that knowingly did this, knowing the full consequences of their actions and doing it anyway. He just didn't.

    He will have to pay us back, he will have chores as well. He will be in that program that is like scared straight, and trust me this is a child who has emotional problems and pees his pants due to it but I have to knowing put him through it to have an impact on him. Additionally there are 2 other programs he has to get into here locally as well. We are searching for other things too. He "may" have to step up a level in the actual mental health services he's in, which I'm not liking if only because we loose the case manager we have that I know is the BEST there is in the whole program! Getting more intensive services is good but it won't be "better" then we are getting now with the person we have. Just "more" often.
  8. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    tia I probably have the most experience here on the board in this exact area. Cory started off with what I would have labeled as impulsive stealing. He couldnt keep his hands to himself in stores and would take things that he wanted. This was at a very young age. From 2 through age 6 when I took him down to juvie and made them do a little scared straight talk to him. That stopped the stealing from stores until he came home from wilderness camp which was the onset of puberty...age 12.

    In his teens he began to steal more frequently. At first it wasnt much. Well actually one time in 97 he tried to steal my new car and got it stuck in the woods which was a huge, but most times it was cash from my wallet then he started skipping school and breaking into friends and neighbors houses to watch cable and eat while we were all at work. That really got him into trouble. I caught him using my debit card a few times at the ATM but only for $20 and like you, I didnt want to hang a felony on him. Here, if I wanted to get my money returned by the bank I had to press charges and it would have been a felony. actually the first time he tried to write a bad check he was about 7 and he took it to a store thinking they would just cash it. It was written in They called my phone number and kept the check and my little thief for me.

    Of course we all know where his crime spree ended. He stole my checks and forged over $1200. I had to charge him. I wish I didnt have to. He forced my hand. Looking back, I wish I had done it when he was a juvenile because maybe he would have gotten the lesson and not be carrying the felonies as an adult but hindsight is 20/20.
  9. JKF

    JKF Well-Known Member

    Oh god Tia! I'm so sorry! My difficult child has done that a few times. First time it was with my debit card and it was for games. Second time he stole husband's debit card and not only tried to buy himself thousands of dollars of electronics but he also passed the number around to all of the kids in the group home so they could buy stuff too! Thankfully his bank called to confirm the charges before they went through since the transactions were so out of the ordinary. There have been other times but they were minor compared to that one.

    I know how hurt and angry you feel. Sending lots of hugs your way!
  10. buddy

    buddy New Member

    TIA, your sp ed person sounds like an idiot! Legally, he needs a positive behavior plan for chronic behaviors. He's supposed to be with folks who are teaching the skills he is not performing.

    I can see how you'd get super frustrated! What a mess.
  11. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    Tia, do you have an advocate for the school's stupidity and refusal to follow his IEP and the laws that require them to do things like create and use a positive behavior plan? If you don't, you NEED one and so does difficult child. He is the one who suffers from the school's bad choices.

    For the theft, please think about filing charges. NOT because you need more things to do, but so that he does not do this again and again. I think a scared straight type of program might work and is worth a shot. If I chose to not file charges, I would at least ask if a police officer could talk to Wiz about the consequences of his actions. You also might consider finding some sort of community service for him to do.

    I would insist on community service even if no charges are pressed. I am not sure about the amt of charges he tried, but given the $350 and attempted $517, my child would end up doing 120 hours of comm service in addition to having his items sold/pawned to repay both you and your SO. Why 120 hours? $350 plus $517 = $867. I know the $517charge did not go through, but his INTENT was to spend that money. Minimum wage is $7.25 and when you divide $867 by $7.25 you end up with 119.586 which rounds to 120 hours. He has to WORK during those hours, and in my opinion the work should be done for a non-profit group like a church, animal shelter, YMCA, etc...

    To do the comm service hours, you have to ask to be allowed to volunteer. Choices tend to be limited for those who steal, so they end up doing jobs they may not like. Natural and logical consequences, Know what I mean??

    One of his big problems is being bored. Having to go and do community service will not only expose him to the working world, it will also keep him quite busy so he won't have as much time to be bored.

    You know your kid, you have great instincts, and this is a crucial time that requires you to follow those instincts. I can tell you what I have done, what I think I may do in the future if faced with this again, but I cannot tell you the right course of action to address this issue. Follow your instincts whether they agree with what the rest of us have said or not.

    As for school, I would be working to get the case manager (is she an advocate or is she the one who coordinates the various therapies and programs that he is in?) to join me in filing a complaint with the superintendent of the district AND with the state board of education. An advocate would be especially helpful with that. If your case mgr is not very well trained in sp ed laws/loopholes/etc... then adding an advocate to help you and to remind the school of the laws would be very helpful. If you need help finding an advocate, PM your state, city and school district and I will do what I can to help you find one. Usually the state dept of education has advocates that are paid by the state but work for what is best for the child.

    Whatever happens next, know that you have all of us backing you up. (((((hugs)))))
  12. HaoZi

    HaoZi CD Hall of Fame

    OMW Tia, I'm so sorry this happened. Are there any additional protective features you can put on your cards to prevent this happening again? Add passwords to the wifi to keep him offline? I'm at a loss here, but I'd be devastated in so many ways if this happened to me I know. *HUGS* hon.
  13. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful


    Bored is not an excuse to help yourself to someone else's money to buy yourself computers and the like. That is a HUGE deal.

    That said? When Travis had that teacher abusing him in 5th grade.........I had no clue until the end of the year. I'd taken away nearly the kid's entire means of entertainment. Seriously. He was down to sitting on his bed with a book. When I discovered the so called "issues" we'd been dealing with all year were actually actively being caused by his teacher......... I of course blew.

    But it also changed my view on school forever. There were no more homework wars. He would pass/fail by his own doing. I refused to get involved unless he asked me. Teachers had issues?? Teachers had to deal with it. I saw to it he got there. Period. I refused to punish for school behavior. I had more than enough to deal with for at home behavior to begin with. And honestly? School was such an ordeal for the kid to get through each day the last thing he needed was parents harping on him about homework and something that took place at school. Travis needed a safe haven. I gave it to him. It was his home. I took a huge risk he'd flunk out. It was a risk worth taking because nothing was working. Not the school's ideas, not mine, not punishment, not rewards.

    The safe haven worked, though. He got to come home and relax and unwind. He didn't fail. He did better. Teachers weren't thrilled with me because they had to find their own solutions to issues. Well, honestly that made sense. They were with him during the day, not me. They figured it out. He dealt with natural consequences as they came along. But he was a far more relaxed and happy kid.

    You know your difficult child. Only you could guess if something like this might help him. And might prevent something like this happening in the future. I do understand the whole "hasn't got a clue about personal boundaries" thing (the stealing ect) because Travis was awful with it for years (not money but other stuff). So if you think that is what was going on, then find some adequate natural consequences of your own to make him stop and think before he floats across that boundary again.

  14. busywend

    busywend Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Ditto what HoundDog said. If the reason he has no entertainment is because of school issues.....that needs to change right away. It isn't working anyway, so time for something new. From now on school and home punishments are separate. If he has trouble at school, they can take care of the consequence. If it is at home, you & husband take care of the consequence. As far as the stealing. I am struggling to figure out what to do that will help him learn just how wrong this is. Maybe once you give him his toys back, you could steal one so he knows how it feels?
  15. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful

    Busy, that is exactly how Travis learned personal boundaries.

    I'm the sort that you're innocent until proven guilty, even if I strongly suspect, have good reason to suspect. I did my best to teach my kids the same way. Things came up missing we suspected Travis much of the time but catching him in the act was nearly impossible. During the teen years every so often his sisters got so fed up they stopped asking if they could borrow this or that and just went into his room and took it, of course forgetting to return it. He'd get soooo upset. Each and every time we reinforced that this is how they felt when he'd go help himself to their stuff. It took a long while but it eventually took hold.
  16. Tiapet

    Tiapet Old Hand

    Susie, I don't have an advocate but I was thinking that I want to find one. We have disability law and advocacy project here and some other stuff. I need to see if I can locate one. The mental health case manager/worker is not real well versed in IEP's, I may know more then he does but he has "some" experience with it. The SPED is just a case manager who "oversees" difficult child in school. Nothing more. I know I need someone on this, especially for transition IEP because for next year, I want this rock solid going into the new school. It's a stem school and while we know difficult child is very smart and this will be good for him and his abilities the way they actually do work (each kid gets a locked down Ipad too), I need to be sure his accommodations are in place. I've heard excellent things about this school for kids like him and with kids with IEP's as well.

    I'm at a critical time period too because they wanted to do his transitional IEP for HS and I had to put it on hold as we have in a request for transfer. It gets even trickier as there is 2 ways it can go here. See the 1st request was for change back in Nov/Dec as the change is to a Magnet and that window was then. Then in Feb is the actual transfer window to which we had to put in the request for his 2nd choice to a different HS then the home base one (other difficult child goes there and they can't go to same one #1 and #2, it would be a really big mistake for HIM to go there as it'a a bad school for how he is, Ms Queen doesn't have same issues but she's struggling as it is). In order to do transition IEP we have to make choices for his classes for HS, the Magnet is completely different then regular HS so chosing classes would make no sense and we'd only end up meeting back up. I deferred until we received notification on which school he's going to be placed. It should have been by end of this week, or so I thought. In the mean time, I requested this other meeting for a "general" IEP type meeting to address these more immediate pressing needs since he is failing all core classes, refusing to go to school (I get him to school MOST days but his absences are starting to climb with only about 35 days left of school). At 10 days we get a court letter from district if there are 10 unexcused. I can't keep writing parent notes (they allow 10). The 1 vice principal (the other one and the principal know not to have any dealings with us as I had BIG problems with them in the past and took it all the way up the chain of command!) is aware that he is fighting going to school as I have to keep documenting through MH worker and him about his refusal or else "I" get in trouble for his truancy They have NO truancy officer and the local sheriff (no town police since out of "city limits") will not come to house to take him in to school either. How dumb is this? He knows this and I can't physically make him go either. Right now "technically" if I could write notes still he would have 5 more plus the ability to have 3 more unexcused giving him 8 more days before we get letter. But alas, I can't write anymore notes. I also think their unexcused count is off and I have to get that fixed too because by my count he should only have 3 unexcused leaving him 7, not the other way around. I think they are using some of his lates (from me dragging his butt into school) as absences.

    I really do appreciate the back up on this ladies. I've really been struggling a lot lately. While Ms Queen's behaviors overall have gotten better, her issues have taken a turn in another direction that are puzzling. So the homefront is still chaotic and I'm still not better from the not being able to walk with what ever is attacking my back and making me not be able to do anything. I've had to set up appointments with a GI, an ortho, now a neuro, and we have added an endocronologist. I attempted a MRI but it was a complete no go as I could not lie down on the bed flat at all due to back and neck. In fact my neck was 6" from the bed and it will never go down. It's my AS that causes that and will only progressively bend further in the wrong direction (looking downward).

    Maybe I should have put this thread in general.....brain just isn't functioning well ~sigh~
  17. buddy

    buddy New Member

    Tia, can you do a standing open mri?
  18. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I would try the open "standing" mri too. Mine was actually sitting though. I will never worry about an mri again. I dont care if I do have to drive the 2 hours, I will.
  19. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Arrrgh! I am so sorry! I know exactly what you are going through. been there done that.

    We closed down two credit card accounts and then difficult child realized he could charge some games to his phone. We yanked everything off the phone plan and he found another credit card. Then, idiot me--I fell for it when he told me he was invited to a birthday party and wanted to get the girl a gift card for games. Of course, he used it for himself.
    Long story short, it took yrs for him to understand, and some days, I think he still doesn't get it.
    And the best thing to happen is that he got a girlfriend, who takes up a lot of his time. She plays free games and they are old and nonviolent, lol! And she likes horror films. Ugh. But he'll take her lead.

    I will ask him what his thought processes are now, that he's a bit older ... but I'll guess his answer will be "I don't know."

    Many hugs.