Social Services Resources in New Orleans?

Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
It is true that I feel less burdened, Recovering. I am riding that edge of discomfort Brene Brown describes as the place we need to be for growth to happen. Well, that is where I want to be. I have to remember that I want to choose that discomfort over a well-worn distraction response. I don't always see it, and I never see it right away.

It's a strange place to be.

I am glad you asked me about my process. I would like to know the details of yours too, Recovering. What are the things you are realizing about yourself, which are the choices you are making differently now. It's like watching the brilliantly colored threads coming together as the tapestry is woven and choosing a different color. Actually choosing the color, not taking a familiar one on impulse, or maybe, it is like choosing to pause the weaving for a moment in Time.

The changes are infinitesimal, sometimes. Just small little things, like choosing not to take control of an interaction by allowing silence, allowing the other person to take the conversation where they will.

I find myself slipping into old patterns and then, sort of becoming aware of the pattern as a pattern (?) and of my responsibility, my addiction to the emotional rush of the old way of seeing? And then, I don't know what to do. I am trying to just sit there and observe my chain of thought.

I am so happy you ask me how I am ~ it is good to think about how it's going.

:O)

Cedar
 

Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
And yes, husband is probably bringing our daughter here. He may take her to the lake for a few weeks, first. She isn't doing well. Her injuries were quite severe, and while her recovery is progressing well, there are definite issues. She is in a Women's Shelter in the city where she was homeless last winter. She had doctor's appointments there, and chose that shelter for that reason. It doesn't seem to have been a good choice. Her ex-husband may still drive up to get her and take her back to his home, but he is no longer sure that is the right thing for the boys. difficult child daughter has some (hopefully temporary) issues with inappropriate emotional responses (laughing/crying/outrage/deep pain), some physical issues with balance, flashbacks to the beating, things like that. We will call tomorrow to learn whether there is a social worker involved. It may be that the Shelter, with its counselors and so on is the best place for her, but we are hearing that she has tried to visit the brother of the man who beat her, that she is contacting street people from before....

We think it is time for family to gather her in and take care of her while she heals.

It's been a confusing time. For those who find themselves in similar situations, this event has been tough on husband and I individually, and very hard on the marriage.

Cedar
 

recoveringenabler

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Your daughter's saga must be so very difficult for you Cedar, I really am sorry. Have you ever considered trying to gain control over your daughter's life in a legal manner which would give you some power in perhaps keeping her medicated and off the streets? Wouldn't she be considered a danger to herself? I'm not sure if that is possible or not, just wondering.

I can't imagine how tough this is on you and husband........... and your marriage. Again, I am so sorry. I do know how our difficult child's can disrupt our life in a way that is indescribable.

Saying a prayer for your family Cedar...........God bless you .....
 

recoveringenabler

Well-Known Member
Staff member
I am glad to hear you are feeling less burdened. That is something I continue to feel, as if anvils are being removed from my shoulders and small sharp objects from my heart. I am physically way less stressed and emotionally calmer.

I know that discomfort you feel. It's not only that you stepped back, out of the usual reality, but in not taking the tried and true road, where do you go? There is a void kind of space that I recall, I think I wrote about it here once, it's tough to spend time in the Great Unknown, not knowing how to act, what to say, how to be.............so there is discomfort in not having that control. For me, that was a vulnerable place to be. ................

What I'm finding now, more with my granddaughter because she is here all the time, is that if I do not assume responsibility for her, or step in in any way (to help), there is a period of discomfort because the familiar is so strong, but in staying in that empty space, other options present themselves, usually not from me. Other ideas, other people, other support seems to find a way in.........keeping me out of the primary responsible role. With my daughter, the reigns had to be completely passed to her, but with my granddaughter being so young, but being at an age where she needs to start taking some of the reigns, it's a continuing practice for me to LET GO. I'm really happy I got to this stage of my own healing so I could be present for my granddaughter in a way which will empower her and give her the responsibility that is appropriate and necessary for her own growth.

For me, I think part of this process has enabled me to respond to a lot of life in a more quiet way, without striving for an outcome or saving anyone, being more comfortable in 'not knowing,' a little better at staying in the present moment and being grateful. I'm less attached to the way I think things "should" be............the entire process of detachment (from our difficult child's) leads to acceptance in a very personal, profound way..........and I'm finding that that acceptance is emerging in many other areas............and that acceptance creates more relaxation and peace which then promotes more health.

I have moments of feeling sad, or melancholy about all of what we deal with here, but thankfully, so gratefully, they are fleeting, they pass quickly. I am spending less and less time in those sticky places we parents of difficult child's know oh so well. It's easier to choose to be happy.

Having said all of that, I DID have a lot of support in the last couple of years......a lot of professional help........from all different angles, which I believe is necessary and makes the process of detachment ........shorter anyway, I'm not sure it's easier, but it had a sense of completion and healing to it.

Do you feel these kinds of things as you walk through your own detachment process? What are you learning?

There is an absence of an internal kind of angst which has been present even before my daughter and her shenanigans.............fear............seems to be diminished quite a bit.

There seems to be a turning point, some moment where there is a sort of emotional reversal, which as I write that, perhaps it may be that the internal focus shifts to oneself as opposed to our difficult child, or in fact, anyone else. And, I think that shift is when we can stop enabling, stop suffering......... and start really living our own lives.............at least that's what I'm thinking today...........maybe there are more changes coming..........
 

Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
:hypnotized:

Now, that is a cute thing. Give me all your chocolate, indeed. I love it.

I was thinking about fear today, Recovering. Fear, and anger. I am becoming so sensitive to my own anger. Maybe, it is part of unnumbing in general? I have been short-tempered, lately. But just today I was thinking about the futility of that anger response, and of how much fear is involved in anger.

I was angry, when I began sort of observing that I was angry? And it went away. I mean, it just sort of dribbled away. Like a Wizard of Oz thing. Just a guy behind a curtain.

There are so many different kinds of anger.

It's (anger) an ego thing, for sure. It has to do with the story we tell ourselves about what is happening. There is so much habit in what we tell ourselves about what is happening. We automatically believe it (the story we tell ourselves) because we've told it for so long. I suppose that is how we learned to interpret everything in our families of origin. (And given my family of origin, those would be some darn good questions to reinterpret.)

:O)

It can be about fear of change.

So, it isn't real. Yet, in the grip of it, we say and do the strangest, most awful things. I wonder what the real emotion is?

So, I am thinking it is fear of annihilation. The ego's fear of annihilation, maybe? That same wild energy is what fuels incredible physical feats. So, we become angry because of the way we've defined our situation to ourselves. Like you, Recovering, sometimes I am quiet, just sort of observing, really seeing, not protecting, not managing, not smiling or making everyone comfortable or happy. Part of that has to be that whole redefinition thing. I am redefining what merits attention, it seems like. And when I slip back into my old ways (for instance, I was at a Christmas party tonight, and behaved joyfully and appreciatively ~ which was appropriate...but I was conscious of being "on" if you know what I mean.

That is what I would say the difference is, now. I am less "on" and more...curious about what I see, I guess. There seems to be a pause now, a time to taste the flavor of a thing. Not to relish it, but just to see what it is.

You are right, Recovering. It is something fuller, now. There is a space between automatic, between that feeling of taking part in a play, and just...stepping out of it, for a little while.

******************

So, this is what has happened with difficult child daughter. I will have to post on PE about it, but maybe not until tomorrow.

She spent the night last night with the bad man from last summer.

It is very cold where she is. Something like 7 degrees below zero last night, I think she said...and they slept outside. Broke a window to get onto the porch of an abandoned house, and that is where they slept. There was a mattress there, and a blanket.

husband did not go to the Christmas party, tonight. He received a call from the ex-husband. This is very unusual. We generally communicate through FB. Well, anyway, he wanted to actually talk to us because he has noticed some strangenesses in difficult child daughter that weren't there while she was hospitalized. Poor husband is such a basket case lately that he never did tell me what ex-husband wanted. I am to call him, tomorrow.

But I was thinking, just today, that difficult child daughter is acting very differently than she did, in the hospital.

Could it be possible she is using drugs or drinking, again? I thought that would be impossible. Who would DO that? She was only discharged last Monday.

But, given that she spent the night with the bad man from last summer and his "family", that is what difficult child daughter is doing.

While we are scrambling around looking for cars and tickets and sending money. $150 the day she was discharged from the hospital, so she could buy a cheap phone and necessities. It was gone in three days. No phone. Said she bought makeup and Christmas presents for the kids for when she goes to see them...and wants more money. So hurt and angry because she cannot even buy coffee. And bus fare is so expensive.

And we are turning around and around, wondering what the h*** to do.

She said on FB that her father should not leave to come up there yet because she may be transferred to a shelter in a nearby state. I mean, it's not like we can just zip across the country. We have to buy a winter car or take a plane and then worry about how to get difficult child out of there when she cannot fly because of the collapsed lung thing.

I am rambling on. So sorry! It is late, and I did have a drink at the party and then, one with husband.

I mean, how do you not help someone who has just nearly been beat to death? But how do you knowingly take on an...addict? A practicing alcoholic? The mother of the man who beat difficult child daughter FB me that they were both taking pills and drinking. I didn't believe her ~ well, I did believe her about the man, but not about difficult child.

So...what a strange night. I am so fearful of deciding to turn away. Of course we cannot do that. But that might be what we do have to do.

What in the world.

Cedar
 

recoveringenabler

Well-Known Member
Staff member
I'm heading off to bed and a bit sleepy, but I just wanted to jot down my first reaction............I'll give it more thought tomorrow............but.......my first thought was that you and husband are (perhaps) paying for the lifestyle your daughter has chosen...she isn't doing anything to heal, change, grow, understand, get better, really any positive change at all. She continues to make very bad choices which put her right in the middle of harms way. And, you are essentially financing her scary, crazy lifestyle and perhaps even allowing it to continue. If she had NO money, no choices based on what YOU send her, she might make different choices. Or not.

That comment in another post about how she was beaten until or because you didn't send money fast enough was so dramatic and so creepy that if it is true then you may give that abuser more ammunition with every dollar you send. Somehow it seems as if you are unknowingly and out of a desperate desire to make it go away.........colluding in this behavior by financially supporting it. You aren't supporting anything healthy or positive, just more money for your daughter to have more time and the freedom to make really bad choices. I can certainly understand wanting to help her, but she is saying don't come and help me, just send money. That is a familiar cry from our difficult child's, "just give me more money."

It is scary for you and husband and I can imagine the toll it's taking Cedar...........I am saying this to give you a different perspective. I think I did this with my daughter too...........I thought I was helping, but I was enabling her to stay exactly where she was.
 

recoveringenabler

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Cedar, are you okay? Have any decisions been made about your daughter? How are you and husband holding up?

Thinking about you........:concern:
 

DammitJanet

Well-Known Member
I dont know if it would be a good or bad idea for you to get conservatorship over your daughter. I dont know if you could physically control her other than if you could manage to get her into some sort of placement.

Now another thing I heard just last night and knew I had to tell you. On the OWN channel which is Oprah, they are doing a Bene Brown class or something like that. You have to sign up for it so it may just be online. It starts sometime in Jan. I know how much you like her so doing this program might be a wonderful thing for you. Like i said, Im not entirely sure how it is going to work but Im sure if you go on Oprah's site you can find out.
 

Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
Oh, wow! Brene Brown, Janet? Thank you! We could all take it and then, discuss our growth and observations, here. Unless I see a post from another of us, I will begin a post on it, once the classes have started.

Her writings and seminars have been so helpful to me.

**********************

Recovering, you cannot know what it means to me to have you (and you too, Janet) leave posts for me. It is like touching a me that was someone finer, more decent, than I feel, right now. We are good Recovering, but this has been so crazily hard.

We are not hearing from difficult child son, at all. FB him to learn whether still at same address so I could send kids Christmas $ (which has to be cash). No response. Good, I say. More money for me.

Not hearing from my sister or my family in any way. when I am feeling less pressured, I will think about that. As husband says, there was never anything there, anyway.

difficult child daughter: I FB her with a really nasty (for me) confrontational, don't-mess-with-someone-who-is-loyal-to-you, how dare you do this to me message after the night spent with the bad man from last summer. She FB back with all kinds of horrible things from her childhood (husband too chintzy to pay for ballet classes without putting up a stink about the money and the pressure that put on her and etc. More info on why both she and difficult child son have a "poverty" mindset ~ again, husband's cheapness and both of our refusal to welcome anyone who needs somewhere to live to come live with us. Just as an aside? Both kids HAVE lived with us as adults. Another fine idea both have discussed is that we should have bought difficult child son a duplex while he was in the throes of his addiction. That way, no one would have to worry about him, as he could rent the other half out.

Intellectually, I understand that difficult child son and daughter cannot face what has happened without rationalizing that it was their childhood that is responsible for their positions in life, now. But in my heart, it is hard to remember that.

And while I should be able to maintain in the face of all that...I could not. I had to go through this whole thing of finding rebuttals for each of those accusations. I feel like a baby whining about this stuff, but it was so hurtful. Too ridiculous to post about, it seemed. There was more stuff there about how we had been too cheap, too uncaring, to pay for college and that is why they had to struggle so hard. And I think they might be right on that one. By the time anybody was ready to go to school, we had both stopped working and gone on to other things. (Though difficult child son did live at home until he flunked out ~ but that was as an adult, and we required him to take out a student loan. difficult child daughter went to school for years and years. I know we took the kids for her a couple of times...she must not have lived with us? Who knows.)

Whatever. I am whining. There just isn't anyone to talk about this stuff with. It takes awhile to come back into balance. difficult child daughter's brain injury has affected her judgment, so I am hearing her take on how and why everything is as it is.

Final cut was that, instead of helping our children, we bought the lake house and then, built this one.

So we could enjoy our luxurious lives while our children are poor because we were such crummy parents.

I know better than to take it seriously. I feel like I am "telling" on someone who bullied me.

difficult child daughter called me a liar, and accused me of telling people (her ex husband, her daughters) things that aren't true to get pity votes.

So, blah, blah, blah.

Neighbor continues his involvement with difficult child via phone and internet. Seemed harmless while she was up North with father of her second child. Not feeling so comfy about it, now.

Good news is that she may choose shelter in Northern state over coming here.

I know you all will understand what this is like. Still, it so sucks to go through it.

I thought of you Recovering, when you told me reactions of this type are the norm.

That was helpful.

husband and I seem to be patching things up, except for me.

:O)

Cedar

Ew. I keep thinking about that pity vote thing. There is a saying, though. Something about being ashamed of acknowledging the pain and yet, at the extreme, of standing up and refusing to not acknowledge it.

Yep.

Pity bid.

"Heartsick and mad, Pitt shouted at the open sky." Clive Cussler

That's me. And right after that? Dirk Pitt went out and did something heroic and impossible without batting an eye.
 

recoveringenabler

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Cedar, I was starting to get concerned that you were driving up north in your little car to rescue your daughter!! I am glad you are still at home. And, I am very glad to hear from you and find out you are (mostly) okay going through this craziness. I worry about you.

I think everything that is happening to you is incredibly healthy. I know that sounds weird, but if you had been in my codependency group, both therapists would have applauded you and told you GOOD JOB, detachment is working! And, like the rest of us, you would have been sitting there looking ever so confused and feeling really weird, since none of this feels that good and it all is feeling kinda bad.

But, change feels weird and people react badly, violently, dramatically or not at all, as we shift our responses.

I'm glad your son is not responding. Let him stew in his new found independence and adulthood and find his own options. YOU DIDN'T DO ANYTHING WRONG. YOU MADE THE RIGHT CHOICE.

Your daughter is an entitled brat. Regardless of her injuries or her mental issues, the fact that she can vomit up all of that nonsense about what you did wrong is so remarkably manipulative and wrong and selfish and self serving and..................well, like your son was a jerk? Your daughter is a brat. MY daughter was a brat too.

I had to laugh about what she was saying to you. My daughter seemed to have kept a long running log of all of my wrong-doings and spit them out when she wanted me to tow the line and give in to her. I heard about how I killed her dog when she was 8 for 30 years. I put him down because he was dying. I heard about how I didn't pay for her to go to Australia on a student exchange program and how selfish I was............how I didn't let her go to that Motley Crew concert in the 11th grade on a school night..............how selfish I was to go traveling when she was in such poverty...............HA! Like you I used to answer with rationalizations, justifications for my poor parenting skill, my selfishness, or simply to explain why. I completely stopped doing any of that. I got mad. Whenever she said that BS to me, I said, "good for you, I have to go now." Or I didn't respond. I stopped engaging. "Don't engage with a crazy person, or you too will become crazy." Good advice.

Practice not responding to that stuff. What is actually occurring is that she is trying bigger and better tactics to make you squirm so you will give her what she wants. Don't do it. As I have said a few times, both of your kids are master manipulators and deserve an academy award for their performances. It's BS Cedar, see it for what it is. They have had all the power because you and husband feel guilty and have been unwilling to go through the struggle inside when we finally say NO. And, in your other post today you said husband always says, 'it's only money and it's easier to give it and get this over with.' Unfortunately, that thinking assures it will never be over with and they will keep coming back for more. It is way more then money you give, it is payments to stop the abuse they fling at you.............it is dirty money given to make them stop their bad behavior............it is given to keep you guys from feeling bad. Stop those guilt payments. You didn't do anything wrong or anything to deserve it. Your kids are both big BRATS!!!! Your daughter doesn't have a poverty mindset, she has an entitled mindset. Get angry Cedar, get really angry and don't listen anymore. The best thing that could happen is both of your kids stop speaking to you and leave you alone while they grow up. Then you and husband can have some peace.

I know how you feel, I went through all of this stuff too........as you change, the blame game heats up and man those accusations come flying. Don't catch them. Move aside and let them go by. Write them all down and take a good look at how ridiculous it all is. Then burn the page.

I am angry for you. Once I stopped caving in and got angry, everything changed. She had no more power over me and I got my life back. We can rationalize the heck out of our commitments to our kids but you know what? Parenting is supposed to come to an end at some point a lot earlier then it did for you and I. You do not deserve this treatment and I am incredibly happy that you told your daughter off. Good for you Cedar. Keep that bad Cedar coming!!!:encouragement:

Oh, and when the hostility and blame stops? You may want to prepare for the sorrowful, hurting, no one loves me, how can you be so mean to me...........stuff. There are usually a few new scripts or old revised scripts that will be flung at you to get you to save her............be prepared. Perhaps keep some statements near the phone like "you're a smart woman, I'm sure you can figure something out."

Cedar, I have learned that this process of detachment has a pretty clear progression. You can almost predict the next behavior for both us the parents......... and our kids. It's like a dialogue which is ongoing and as you change, the dialogue changes, and that dialogue goes down a pretty predictable progression too. Both of your kids are going to have to adjust to the new you and that will take a little time. In the meantime, they will likely come up with some interesting behavior to make you go back to who you were when they got their way. If you can continue to recognize that for what it is, real change can happen. But if you give in, you will prolong that change and continue suffering and sending money.

I had to face some pretty awful truths. Your daughter could die at the hands of one of these abusers. As mine could have died in any number of ways. And, you have to get clear that if that did in fact happen, she put herself in that place, you could not have stopped it. You may have been able to keep it at bay for awhile, but not forever. In the meantime, your life would be over. You are not responsible for the choices your kids make.

Here is the interesting part Cedar...............my daughter wrote me an email yesterday filled with new thinking, explanations, apologies, how much she loves me and appreciates me.............her gratitude for my cooking her birthday dinner.......you could have knocked me over with a feather..............but I can see that when I stopped letting her treat me badly, when I stopped giving ANYTHING to her, when I became willing to live without her and let her go into the destiny she chose, even if that meant she may DIE..........she started to wake up, at least to my value and my connection to her. She may always be who she is in the world, but she is not treating me badly nor is she draining me of energy, time and money. You are really close to that Cedar...........but you have to hold on and not give in to them. Your daughter is going to pull out all the stops now...........probably make threats and comments which will scare you.........do not fall for it.

When you weaken, or need support just put out a distress call on this site and we will come running to pull you out!!! I needed a lot of hands pulling me out so I really get how hard this is. But, you are DOING IT!!! Like you said to me the other day? You are doing it too. I really liked reading that you did not fold under your daughters assault. I am proud of you!!!

And, I am really happy your sister is leaving you alone too. Geez. You are creating a different energy around you............one which demands more respect and is not putting up with the lies anymore. When that happens, everything changes and all the jerks and brats stay away...................good for you! :courage:
 
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DammitJanet

Well-Known Member
cedar, I just have to tell you something. YOU WERE NOT BAD PARENTS!!!!!

I am pretty darned sure I have a ton more things from my childhood to complain about than either of your kids...combined. I do hold my mom responsible for many things and I have absolutely no doubt that she is responsible for the fact that I have borderline personality disorder.

Oh boo hoo that you didnt send your daughter to dance classes. I seriously doubt she would be a professional ballerina at this point in her life! Many many kids dont get college educations paid for by their parents. My kids grew up knowing we could never pay for it. Personally I think people who get through college on their own dime appreciate it more. I know I did. I messed up the fact that my parents could have, and would have, paid for me to go to anywhere I wanted but I blew it. I later went on my own dime in my mid-twenties and I was so tickled pink to get that degree. I also worked a heck of a lot harder when I knew I wanted this degree. In fact, I graduated with a 4.0 average and I had 3 kids by the time I graduated. Believe me, studying with newborns and toddlers isnt easy!

I will also tell you that if your daughter has a head injury some of her instability is probably caused by that. I know you remember when I was so sick. They considered that to be a pretty severe brain injury. It took me quite awhile to become myself again. I wasnt so much lashing out as I was so very childlike. Pretty pitiful actually. I think the first time I drove my car I went 25 mph the whole way...lol. Im also pretty sure you remember some of the really strange delusions I had while I was in the coma and immediately after. (Im still pretty sure I transferred my twins to Trinity...lol)
 

DammitJanet

Well-Known Member
Oh recovering reminded me of something.

When my kids used to complain about me doing or not doing something they wanted me to do or they were ticked off when I did do something they didnt like, I just looked at them and said "well good, I must be doing my job because you are going to need something to *itch about to a therapist one day when you are an adult!" Then I walked off.
 

recoveringenabler

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Cedar, I just had to add this...........I was talking to SO about my daughter's email. We ended up laughing about how last year I would come downstairs and say to him, "I want to do this for my daughter, but before I do, I want to know if my ideas and thinking have any holes in them." He would listen to my crazy ideas to SAVE her and tell me the truth.

I recall once wanting to just "get it over with" as your husband said, just make it all go away and I found a cheap apartment in the next town. I sat at my desk figuring it all out on paper, how I would do this ...........and when I presented my new ideas to him, he reminded me of how it would likely go...........she wouldn't pay rent, she'd have her "friends" over who would trash the place.....she'd sneak the 4 cats in and the place would smell bad, she would eventually be evicted, I would pay for all of it and she would end up exactly where she is. Why? Because she had absolutely no commitment to change. I did. Not her. As soon as he said all of that, I knew he was right and abandoned the idea immediately. Between he and my therapist and my good friend, they kept me on the straight and narrow. Until I just stopped trying to save her.

Cedar, before you take any action, ask someone not involved in this or ask us, or ask me if your ideas have any holes in them............we'll tell you the truth. And, after awhile, like me, your ideas won't have any holes............it'll be easy. Like it was with your son.
 
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Copabanana

Well-Known Member
What are the things you are realizing about yourself, which are the choices you are making differently now. It's like watching the brilliantly colored threads coming together as the tapestry is woven and choosing a different color. Actually choosing the color, not taking a familiar one on impulse, or maybe, it is like choosing to pause the weaving for a moment in Time.

The changes are infinitesimal, sometimes. Just small little things, like choosing not to take control of an interaction by allowing silence, allowing the other person to take the conversation where they will.
There is a form of weaving I want to learn. It is called Saori and was created by a woman in Japan who is now near 100 years old I think.

Saori is based upon the Japanese concept of Wabi-Sabi, the embrace of imperfection as an aesthetic ideal: the old, damaged, destroyed, mistaken, imperfection...FAILURE is the ideal, and is beautiful.

The other thing about Saori: anybody can do it, and do it beautifully. The beauty is the process of creation itself, "in the moment in time"..."the conversation taken where one will." (Thank you, Cedar)
 
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Copabanana

Well-Known Member
(anger) an ego thing, for sure. It has to do with the story we tell ourselves about what is happening. There is so much habit in what we tell ourselves about what is happening. We automatically believe it (the story we tell ourselves) because we've told it for so long. I suppose that is how we learned to interpret everything in our families of origin.
Yes. For years my response to my son was rage. I felt betrayed. I felt shame. I felt abandoned. I could not handle the injustice. That I had loved him so much, needed him so much. This story of redemption...could not end like this. My son was to replace the love I did not get. My son was to remedy my pain and fill my empty places.

It was not working. It must be my fault. I must try harder. I must do better. Still, nothing worked.

I tried more and more. It could not end like this. I could not end like this. My life became smaller and smaller. Nearly all of my competencies, my successes, I threw aside. Until nothing was left except two infants. My high chair tyrant, and the infant I long ago was. If I could not make them love me, take care of me. If I could not as a tiny girl summon up their strengths...seduce them to give me a little bit of what I needed. I would die.
why both she and difficult child son have a "poverty" mindset
What wonderful Mothering, Cedar, to have brought up your children to have a "poverty mindset" so that they have a head start "falling up."
 
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Copabanana

Well-Known Member
"When an inner situation is not made conscious, it appears outside as fate."

Faith is not, like a gambler's bet, something that turns out right or wrong. It is an act, an intention, a project.... (Paraphrase. Russ: On Strike Against God)

Thank you RecoveringEnabler and Cedar. I never before saw the connection between fate and faith. They are two sides of the same coin. Faith is always present with the turning over...it is but a choice.

"the soul doesn't care what the personality has to go through to grow, only that the soul completes the raising of consciousness."
I remember the book "The Heart is a Lonely Hunter" read long ago and now almost forgotten. I will read it. There is a vicious strength of this growth that will not stop the pain until we SEE.
 

Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
For years my response to my son was rage.

I had to work very hard to get to the rage part. You are new to us, so you will not have heard this story. When we understood that we needed outside help with our daughter (14 at the time), we took her to an Adolescent Crisis Center in the city where we lived. They kept her for a time. Then, directly into what passed for treatment in those days "or she will die" is what they told us. These things turned out to have been the worst things we could have done. Our authority as parents was assaulted. Our family identity was assaulted. Our child was labeled both victim and villain, depending on some professional's assessment of her performance, or of ours. We were told to discount her stories about drug use in that treatment center. Within the following years, her counselor was charged, and found guilty, of dealing cocaine. The Center eventually closed.

But it was too late, for us, and for our daughter and our son, who was put at risk through everything that was happening to his parents and to his life.

Poor kid.

In those days, so much was still the mother's fault. Autism was still believed, was just coming out of that belief system that taught autism was a problem with the way the mother bonded with her infant. Now, we understand that is not the case but then, that was not true. Our daughter was not autistic. I am using that as an example of the helping professional mindset. Perhaps that excuses what my mother said to me when, against my better judgment and at D H's insistence, I called to tell my parents what had happened, that our daughter was in such a troubled place and we had gone for outside help. Without batting an eye, as though she had planned it for years, my mother drawled: "Wellllll...looks like you weren't such a good mother after all, were you?"

Now, I can see the determination to hurt and to weaken me, in her words. Then? I believed it. I had not found the site, yet. If it even existed, back then.

When I began in therapy for myself, it was with the express intention of finding out whether I had done something horrible to my daughter and blocked it out. It was a vulnerable, shaming time.

That therapist?

Turned out not to be a very good therapist.

Again, it was a time when doctors and therapists were considered authorities, and were believed. I had gone there to be judged. I believed him.

He was wrong.

I still remember the session when he turned from therapist to attacker. I still remember it as though it were yesterday. Just that clearly.

He said: "You are a manipulator. I would never trust the compliments of someone like that."

Someone like that. Someone like...you. Someone...like me.

Boom. Cedar falls apart.

He also said he loved me. He wanted to know my feelings for him.

A therapist I saw much later told me about counter-transference.

It wasn't until I had been here on the site for some time that I finally told that story, and was helped to understand what was true about that and what was abuse about that time, and that therapist.

It was Recovering Enabler who helped me, then.

Years earlier, I had told the leader of my FOO Group about him, and about what happened there. That was after Group was over. I went back to see her, to tell her.

I just didn't know what to do with any of it.

Boom. Cedar falls apart.

But I couldn't just fall apart. So, I recreated myself, instead.

I am amazed at what I have survived, sometimes. It is good, to be amazed at ourselves and our strength.

Stations of the Cross.

Sometimes, it is good to tell the most shaming things. I am still putting that particular therapist's judgments away. Here is the thing: What he did to me had nothing to do with my child, or my children. How could he have done such a thing as to intentionally further weaken me? He knew things about my mother, about how I grew up, that I have not revealed even here.

Why doesn't matter.

What matters is that we see it, that we get on the outside of it.

We need to keep our wits about us, even and maybe, especially, when we see a therapist. I have seen many therapists, since that first therapist. I have never trusted one, again. The closest I came to trusting one was the woman therapist in FOO Group Therapy. I am fortunate I was able to trust her to the degree it was possible for me to trust, then.

Compassion has saved me, many a time. My own compassion, I mean. It enabled me to keep going, to forgive whatever happened there with that first therapist.

But I went through a dark time, through a struggle with vengeance, and with not being able to believe, to put things together in a way that made sense.

The only thing I know these days is that why does not matter the way I thought it did. Understanding and forgiving those who victimize is not helping them, and does not help us. So, what is there to do with them?

I don't know about that, either.

I know I am back, am coming fully and completely back.

:hugs:

Even with our kids, why doesn't matter. It is what it is, and if we intend to help them, we will find the best way to do that. Detachment parenting seems to be helping them both to stand up.

So I am right there.

But it cost me everything I taught myself about how to be a decent mother, to do that.

It's working.

So, out the window with being a decent mom by anyone else's standards, at all.

:O)

(Profanity. Pretend there is a profanity, that pretty much universal one beginning with F. We will make a phrase of it. The ever popular F followed by (if "it" is a preposition) by a preposition. Which Cedar does not actually employ at this point, because I don't know you well enough yet and would not like to offend.)

For years my response to my son was rage. I felt betrayed. I felt shame. I felt abandoned. I could not handle the injustice. That I had loved him so much, needed him so much. This story of redemption...could not end like this. My son was to replace the love I did not get. My son was to remedy my pain and fill my empty places.

I felt that way too, once I got to the rage part. But then, I really came to understand the concept of my children's lives being their own. I see now that, while it is my job to love them wholeheartedly (for their sakes and for my own), their job is to live their lives according to their fates or maybe, according to nothing at all.

That part is not for me to know.

Once I got that, once I learned, through reading and reading here on the site, about addiction and betrayal and about how this is serious, deathly serious...I began seeing my children as heroic. They have battled and vanquished demons whose strength I cannot imagine.

Just imagine that.

Addiction; addicted.

And they beat it.

Time and again, they have beat and fallen and beat it, again.

So I am thinking about that, in this new way of seeing I am having, these days.

We needed heroes for children, Copa.

And we got them.

They are battling demons we know nothing about.

They are strong, just as we raised them to be.

Their job is not to love us. Their job and our task was and continues to be, to make it possible for them to love themselves.

True.

And to do that, they must respect themselves.

And a first step in self respect, is respecting your mother and your father.

Unless your mother was a poop like mine.

:hugs:

That's me, hugging myself.

:O)

Until nothing was left except two infants. My high chair tyrant, and the infant I long ago was. If I could not make them love me, take care of me. If I could not as a tiny girl summon up their strengths...seduce them to give me a little bit of what I needed. I would die.

I love this. I will find a piece where we went through that same kind of thinking and came so beautifully out of it. I can't think what thread that was. It was one of mine.

I will find it for you.

The imagery in it was beautiful.

to have brought up your children to have a "poverty mindset"

Ha! :O) Thanks, Copa. My kids are too smart for me. This was one of their prime manipulatory tactics. I never wanted my kids to want for anything. Never, ever wanted them to feel poor, or to know what it was to be unwanted, or not cherished, ever.

The thing I finally figured out about the poverty mindset is this: Had our children wished to take advantage of all we had sacrificed and were prepared to deluge them with, poverty mindset would never have been an issue.

Their addictions demanded other things, demanded a limitless supply of money and approval. It was addiction that would destroy my children, and my life.

After all the fighting, all the concern and caring and determination to get this right, it would be addiction that destroyed us all.

Let us slip another profanity in right here.

Addiction is a terrible, destructive thing.

I hate it.

As an aside, we are learning now, about the genetic proclivity to addiction.

No mothering, however well or poorly done, is going to change a genetic fact. Some kids try it and let it go. Ours tried it and were hooked.

Hooked, like a fish on a line.

Profanity.

I remember the book "The Heart is a Lonely Hunter" read long ago and now almost forgotten. I will read it. There is a vicious strength of this growth that will not stop the pain until we SEE.

I will find it, too. I have not read it.

Cedar
 
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