They're Off to Dayton FINALLY!

Discussion in 'Parent Emeritus' started by Hound dog, Nov 11, 2010.

  1. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful

    I swear it's been one of the longest days of my life. And M and katie did everything humanly possible to drag it out as long as they could. :mad:

    Yes. husband told M when he picked the kids up for school (yes they went cuz grandpa mistakenly told them they were going) that he would be back to pick them up at 9:45 am as it was time to talk. Since this was news to me.........I'd just woken up........I was more than a bit surprised. husband? Really?? OMG!

    So, yeah, tells you how fed up we are with the two of them.

    When they got here I told katie she had to call the shelter as M didn't bother to give them any info and they were still holding the spot, which they were going to USE because we would not be taking them up there tomorrow. I told her she'd better get to the rest of the laundry and get packing as they had a deadline to meet. I didn't give them the opportunity to argue. It wasn't up for debate. I did manage to do it without raising my voice and keeping it tactful.

    Katie spent the rest of the day washing clothes and packing. M spent much of it enticing Evan into bad behavior. I did let them cook supper............only because they had bought the food, had ASKED, and they wouldn't arrive at the shelter in time for the evening meal. That won't ever happen again. They drug out frying chicken for 2 hrs..........omg!:mad:

    They just left. Thanks be to the heavens above!!

    Was not any one thing that caused husband to do the confrontation..........just all the attitude was finally enough to push us over the edge.

    I am so done. No more help. None. Even if they continue to check on shelter openings here and they happen to come back..............From here on out they're on their own. Sink or swim.

    I don't have high hopes. M kept talking all day how he's gonna get a job so they can have nights in a motel. (royal huh?) And he kept going on and on about what all he was going to buy. If he gets hired by anyone I'll probably keel over. And katie? Please.........she's got to stay outta bed long enough.........don't see it happening.

    Whatever. They're someone else's problem now. They'll come visit for the holidays, period. My heart aches for the grands..........but there is nothing I can do about the decisions and actions of their parents.

    I hope this is enough to open katie's eyes. If it isn't then nothing will.

    PEACE and QUIET! No more M knocking on the door all throughout the day...........WOOT!!!!!

    Although I pity husband. He has to put up with 3 riled up kids in the car for the next hour and a half, then drive the hour and a half back home again. :whiteflag:
  2. Hopeless

    Hopeless ....Hopeful Now

    They are headed up to my area. Hoping Katie realizes all you have tried to do to help them out and that she and her husband get out and find jobs.
  3. CrazyinVA

    CrazyinVA Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I'm glad you can finally have some peace. I pray the ride up and back is uneventful. Those poor children.. it just breaks my heart, the hand they've been dealt all because of their parents' choices.. but you're right, there is nothing you can do. You've done enough, more than enough.

    Hugs. I hope you can sleep well tonight.
  4. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It


    I am sure that all that you have told us is just the very tip of the iceberg as far as how they have behaved. 3 weeks was PLENTY of time to get a LOT of stuff set up if they were willing (and able) to work. Even just to work at getting the various types of aid set up to help them. I am glad that your husband was actually able to see how much they have taken advantage of you.

    Like everyone here, my heart breaks for those kids. I really wish there was a way to help them, but it is doubtful that their parents would permit any real help unless it was forced on them by the courts. I hope the shelter in Dayton makes them leave during the day so that they MUST go do something. At least that would get them up and moving so maybe they would start looking for jobs.

    If CPS gets involved they will surely ask the kids about relatives - the way you "forced" them to leave and refused to "help" them might make the adults reluctant to let you know if CPS was called. To spite YOU, to punish YOU, because they are NOT thinking of their kids at all.

    I hope they do not keep calling to pester you to come and get them, though you are plenty strong enough to tell them not to call and then to not answer except at certain times when you can talk to the grands. It is highly doubtful that much will get them to really change.

    Study hard and let us know how you are progressing toward your exams!!! How are your jaws feeling? Will your teeth be available soon?
  5. KTMom91

    KTMom91 Well-Known Member

    Hugs, Lisa. Hope Katie and M manage to catch a clue and get it together for the kids.
  6. tiredmommy

    tiredmommy Site Moderator

    I'm proud of your husband... that must have been mighty difficult for him. Get some rest, the holidays are right around the corner.
  7. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful

    I dunno Susie, katie would be terrified over the kids in foster care (M grew up as a foster kid and told her many horror stories, true or not) she'd probably give them the family names. If not, I know Kayla and Alex would as the thought of going with strangers would scare them to death.

    husband just got back.

    And my brain has had a chance to recoop after this afternoons chaos.

    Katie attempted a few guilt trips which I promptly nipped in the bud. She started in about how she doesn't know what to do about the kids and school since she'll keep calling the nearby shelters for openings........and she feels so bad about yanking them in and out.......This was supposed to make Nana feel like an ogre for sending them to dayon. Instead.........I told her to svck it up. Kayla will be held back this year (2nd time) due to all the moving around. She might as well face the fact and stop worrying about it. Told her she has no choice so get over it. Alex doesn't matter as he's Special Education and does his own program anyway.

    Then she said she felt terrible because her mom called her last night and reamed her a new one over not having jobs and a place to live yet. Then evidently Kayla started in on both her parents as it's all their fault they have to go back to the shelter. Katie said it hurt so much to hear her say that. I said then you tell her to make sure she graduates, goes to college, then gets married, then has she doesn't wind up in the same position as an adult.

    Oh, and katie was sooooo worried about the wk evaluation thing. I told her the only reason they'd boot them out is if they don't work the program. In other words, calling me with some lame excuse of why you got booted is not going to make me come running.

    Katie shut up. That was the last attempt at a guilt trip.

    Then M started in how he was gonna get a job and ask for day passes to rent motel rooms for a night or two......take the kids to Mc Donalds when the shelter didn't make what they wanted to eat.....yadda yadda..........I'd had it up to here by then *hand held above head* And shot back with Gee, don't you think you might want to save the money to put a roof over their head first? Idiot.:mad:

    That wasn't enough. Then once kayla starts getting really upset about going (she's scared to death) M tells her to not worry he didn't take her out of harms way in St Louis to put her back into it again. Excuse me?? I had to seriously bite my tongue on that one. I did so only because the grands would hear what I had to say and it would not have been put tactfully. It's because of him that they're sitting in dayton tonight. Omg I wanted to knock the snot right out of him.

    Oh, and Alex was nearly hysteric by noon today. His teacher called from the school. To help him calm down she bought pizza for the two of them to eat lunch together. She'd called because she'd given Alex her phone number and address so he could keep in contact and she wanted to make sure it was ok with katie. She also sent home with him tons of school supplies, the rest of the pizza, candy, a book given to him by his classmates as a goodbye present all signed by them. She adores Alex and says he's been an utter joy to have in class and that she's going to miss him terribly.

    Mean of me.........but I saw that it hurt katie to be taking him away from that, and I thought let's keep piling it on until she gets it.

    At the shelter no one bothered to thank husband for the ride except kayla.........who also gave him a hug and a kiss for each of us and whispered in his ear she knew it wasn't our fault. That little girl has seen and lived through too much already.

    Most of katie's problem is she wants to hide instead of work for the change. She wants someone to fix it for her. She wants someone to tell her what to do, when to do it, and how to do it. She has to learn to stand up for herself and those kids. She has to learn that grownups have to work, and work hard, for what they want and need in life. Katie has got to get so furious with M that she can find the strength to throw off the victim mentality forever. I hope the shelter runs them ragged, hounds them relentlessly. Awful........but probably the only way they're going to open the girls eyes to reality. There are moments when I see the fire in her eyes..........then she goes back to her comfort zone and it goes out again. *sigh*

    I don't feel the least bit guilty. My heart aches for the grands, they sure got the bums rush when it came to parents......and they've already had it so hard it's so unfair to them. If kayla is held back it will be the 2nd time due to all the moves. Poor Alex is regressing terribly because he has to keep adjusting to new environments/teachers ect and he just does not do that well. Poor lil guy absolutely loved it at this school and was the 1st time she didn't have to fight him to go. And Evan.......... I taught him to count to 3 today using 3 pennies. (an effort to keep him from destroying the house and driving me nuts) The boy is 5 yrs old. He just today learned to count to 3. He was soaking up the attention like a sponge. And he likes Nana attention because I don't treat him like a baby. Makes me sad.

    I'll take them on if I have no choice. But I won't be over eager as it would mean still being in constant contact with M. ugh (shoot me now) Although I think if they lost custody and had no hopes of getting them back he'd vanish out of the picture. They're his meal ticket, if not a meal ticket he'll move on to the next victim. He cares for them but not in the same sense as a parent for a child. Whether that would be enough to make katie stand up to the plate......well, I'd hope so but I can't even say for sure now if it would be.

    So now back to normal. There will be no trips to dayton except holidays.........and to go to nichole's for dinner next week. She wants to show off her new apartment. Oh, and she got a job sitting for a little boy (18 mos) for 11 bucks an hour cash. Yet M and katie have *cough* "looked" for 3 wks and nothing. geez imagine,.

    My gums aren't healing as fast as I'd like. I doubt he'll be doing the mold next week when I go in. I've lost at least 35 plus pounds, even though I do my best to eat. Not having teeth doesn't bother me anymore. Odd how quickly you can grow used to something. lol I mean the appearance.....the eating thing is frustrating. :tongue:

    But now I can study in peace. I'm going to give myself a few wks before scheduling the exam because sometimes they have a spot open right away and I don't have the money to take the thing twice. Then if they don't have a spot open right away just gives me that much more time to study.

    Of course this is after washing every dish in the house in the morning. I just didn't have the energy after they left for washing dishes.
  8. Shari

    Shari IsItFridayYet?

    Hugs, Hound. You did the best you could.
  9. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Lisa, I am so frustrated for you. I know how much the grandkids mean to you. I get it on such a guttural level. I know you would take Aubry in a nanosecond just like I would Keyana. I would be more hesitant with Hailie and Mikey for many of the same reasons you are with Katie and M. Not that Jamie doesnt work or support the family but I just know that unless both parents were completely out of the picture, I would have no peace at all. Even then, I fear that damage is already done to at least one of those kids. I dont know that I am up to raising another difficult child. Normal kids are hard enough! I am not real sure I could raise a female Cory with a mean streak!

    I keep saying that I hope K and M come to their senses but I really have little hope because of their ages. Especially M. By now they really are grown up and pretty much as set in their ways as they can get. It will take almost an act of congress to get much to change. Most people do the major changing in their 20's and grow out of the stupid junk and become more responsible. That really worries me. Even if they were fairly adept criminals it would be something ya know? But they arent even good at using the system to keep a roof and food. I have known tons of people who lived in public housing with the man on the side, not reported, got welfare and food stamps and managed...even working under the table to make extra cash. Its what ya gotta do these days sometimes. You cant just live in shelters that kick you out with kids and then go live in boxes. That isnt a plan!
  10. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    Janet, in OH they don't even have to hide that the guy lives there. When we first moved to Cincy I let husband pick the apartment in the hopes that if he picked the place it would be someplace he would actually like. He managed to rent a place right above a drug dealer who abused his girlfriend's kids. NOTHING got the police involved or even CPS involved. NOTHING.

    I reported them once for welfare abuse because he was the father of 2 of the kids but she was living with him and getting ALL the various programs benefits for single parents. They told me it did not matter if he lived there as long as they were not married. Even if they had been married and then divorced they could still live together as 2 separate households and she could get all the aid programs. Later when I worked up toward where Lisa lives I knew many women with similar situations. They lived with the father of their kids but didn't marry or try to claim common law marriage because they could get benefits as long as they were single. It would simply take too much work for the social workers there to try to figure out if someone was living with the father of her kids. So they don't even ASK. My aunt tells me it is the same where she lives. Her granddau just got married against the wishes of his family. His family wanted them to just live together and have kids so that they could work under the table and claim benefits. No way will her granddau have any part of fraud, and she clearly told the guy that if they are having kids at any point they will be married or he can just zip it up and go find someone else. (Aunt is honorary title, my mom's bff).

    Seems to me that if katie couldn't bring herself to totally ditch M, maybe she could divorce him, get housing etc... and then kick him out later. I doubt she would have the spine for even that little step though.

    Lisa, I really hope that the shelter in Dayton is horrible enough that katie snaps out of it and gets her act together. Or that she at least is in one place long enough for CPS to get involved. They don't neccessarily have to remove the kids, they could just put her on a plan of supervision to make sure she is taking care of the kids.

    in my opinion both katie and M should be SHOT. Evan learned to count to 3 today?? At FIVE years old? His parents have been cooped up in motel rooms with him for YEARS and never even bothered to do THAT with him? That alone should have the kids removed because they don't even have a clue as to how to TRY to be babysitters, much less parents.

    I am glad the schoolpeople really liked them. It bodes well for how they will be received in other schools. Is there a reason that kayla is not in Special Education classes? If nothing else the moving around would have her behind enough to need services.

    Take your time studying for the test. Don't rush it before you are ready. I hope you are able to get the molds done and the dentures made fairly soon. I am sorry that you haven't been able to eat enough that you have lost so much weight. You are a great warrior mom and gma. I know it was hard to make the grands leave but if you hadn't there is not even a teensy chance that katie would ever even try to make a life for them.

  11. Fran

    Fran Former desparate mom

    How sad.
    The kids would do better with a stable, somewhat "normal" structured environment. Hope the kids use this as a reason to do well and not adopt a victim mentality. It's pretty hard when you have parents that are totally dysfunctional.
    K has been with M a long time. They made 3 kids. I doubt she will get fed up enough to leave him. She is trudging through life and sleeping through as much of it as possible.
    Kayla would probably leave voluntarily for some stability if she had an opportunity which should be a wake up call for Katie. She will start to run when she is old enough to find a way or an influence that will give her the courage to do it.
    We hope that they find their way but not all of our kids grow up to be working, independent, stable people. I know it's a worry for me.
    I'm keeping my fingers crossed that those kids latch on to something that will sustain them until they have the opportunity to make a better life for themselves.
  12. AnnieO

    AnnieO Shooting from the Hip


    You did the right thing. Katie so needs a whack upside the head (figuratively) to get herself out of the hole she has dug for herself.

    Let me say something here. My husband and kids are difficult children. I might be one, too. But I have a steady job. I make a decent salary. We're not rich, but we live in a decent part of town, nice house, have plenty of food - and husband likes to spend money, trust me, on stuff like that. The biggest difference? M walks on Katie, and that's just that. She allows it. And only she can make the decision to stop allowing it. But - change is HARD. She's in her comfort zone. She's not going ANYWHERE unless forced - as you pushed her to Dayton.

    Yes, the shelter will make them leave for the day. But let me tell ya something... If the shelter food is unpalatable? Oh well. If you are hungry enough, you'll eat anything.

    Kayla is one smart cookie, held back or no. And she'll make it out of this. Alex and Evan? Well, with help.

    Rattling beads and praying for the little ones.
  13. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful

    Since the kids have to have a "day basket" and a "night basket" for their things I'm pretty sure they have to leave the shelter during the day as well. Right now we're in a bit of a warm spell, but it's going to get mighty cold soon. And they're going to have to find somewhere to be during the day.......... So it's going to get much more uncomfortable before long.

    I don't think katie is going to get that wake up call.........but you know us Moms, we can always manage to drum up hope even when our brains tell us it's a long shot it will happen. Fran I also think they're too old and too set into their pattern of living,. I have seen people their ages change..........but those were rare events over a lifetime. Which is why I have prepared husband for getting the grands.........because I'm afraid it's not going to be an IF situation but a When.

    One. I know M has been abusive to kaite and the kids in the past. I have serious doubts that behavior has stopped other than temporary.
    Two. I know Katie has been abusive to the kids in the past. Watching her under so much stress yesterday........ Yes, due to past behavior I've been watching for it. And I saw the danger signs yesterday evening. And I watched the kids response to it. I'm sad to see it. I'd hoped past behavior was due to her age at the time and inexperience with toddlers/infants.
    Three. Katie is going to be attempting to parent 2 autistic boys with severe Sensory Integration Disorder (SID) issues in a room full of strangers with other children. I'm guessing it's going to push her to her utter the kids also behave as abused kids.....meaning they don't respond until they have the parent on the verge of hitting them. (don't know how to describe this behavior, it's one I recognize from my own childhood and from other abused kids) Alex and Evan are both going to be over the top. I wonder if katie can hold it together. She nearly lost it last night.
    Four. I know from Katie and M telling me.........they have a long record with CPS in Mo. Teachers, docs and the like have turned them in mult times and each time they squeaked out of losing the kids, just barely. I'm guessing by moving. Last time was right before they left Springfield......and may have been St Louis, but can't say for sure. I do know the school had turned her in to CPS due to Kayla still not having glasses so she can see (school nurse here says her vision is horrible, I know cuz she was so concerned she call ME, not katie) and other neglect /abuse issues. Aren't they bright for telling me this stuff?? sheesh

    Also.........while I believe katie was clean and sober when she arrived........I suspect she's been using drugs during her stay in the motel. It's a haven for addicts....and pushers. And sorry but even those two I can't see managing to blow at least 600 dollars in 2 wks on food........especially when they had the food stamps........and they have not one thing to show for that cash except Evan's and Katie's birth certificates.......they never sent off for M's. Would explain the "migraines" and the long absences and turning off the phone so we couldn't call..... And Katie is losing weight big time even though she's eating like a horse.....literally enough for 3 people herself alone. My theory is she uses the "migraines" as an excuse to get M to buy the drugs........and he's so stupid he wouldn't bat an eye or even see it as wrong. She's made no effort at all to get her migraine medications filled....and she has the medical card. And while in the ER so "terribly" sick with a migraine.....they didn't give her anything worth a snot for the pain, simply told her they did. (pharm does come in handy) Yet she was magically all better the moment she found out biomom sent them 900 bucks. Yep bff gave me plenty of experience dealing with addicts.......I know the behavior well.

    So when/if CPS here gets called they'll likely check with CPS in Mo, and that ought to seal it. The kids are flat broke. They won't be running again anytime soon.

    Pathetic when they can't even figure out how to play the system. Janet you're so right. And so is Susie. In ohio it is next to impossible to get someone in trouble for welfare fraud. They simply just do not investigate. In our county......they just give you a blank stare. They only reported the shelter in Mo because it was an organization doing it. We've got so many people here milking the system it's not funny. Some have no choice, it's a do what you have to do situation.........others simply because drugs/booze is more important or they're just too lazy to find work. They learn how to work it quickly. While they may not get a welfare check each month they make sure they get anything and everything else available to them.

    Kayla is very smart, thank goodness or she'd be in trouble, but it is beginning to affect her reading and spelling skills a bit........but she catches on fast which works in her favor. As for Alex......I think his dxes are dead on, but if he could stay somewhere long enough to get the help he needs there is some chance of him making a lot of progress, if not academically then with life skills. Evan.......I don't know. I can't tell how much of his issues are parental neglect at this point. Yesterday was the first time something "clicked" with him and he got it. Sounds terrible but it is the first glimpse I've had of him being able to learn anything academic at all, everything else has gone right over his head and all I get is a blank stare. Makes me so mad as a normal parent who sees their child below developmental norms would be working harder with the child to help them learn, not ignoring it and treating him like he's a year old. His speech is for the most part.......well you just can't understand 99 percent of what he says. It's not just me, his own parents don't understand him either, nor kayla or alex.


    The family as a whole are having long discussions about Kayla Alex and Evan. We are forcing ourselves to face the reality that Katie and M will most likely be losing custody soon. We don't want them lost to the system after they have already suffered so much. So we're trying to look at all the alternatives and what would be best for each of the kids according to their needs. Of course keeping them together would be wonderful........but due to family dynamics (which is pretty horrid at this point) among the sibs.....we're not sure about keeping them together. Because whoever has all 3 are going to have their hands full. (which would be me as easy child can't take all 3 and Nichole won't either) Kayla has been forced to mother her brothers for years and been taught to treat them as if they're toddlers. Her brothers have been taught no respect for Kayla and have actually been taught by M that Kayla is a doormat and treat her as such. The boys think nothing of destroying her things, do so on a reg basis, and are not punished for it. She is told to svck it up. She's not even allowed to get mad. omg:mad: Evan is allowed to be physically abusive to the entire family and nothing is done.........and yeah it's really bad. Alex is allowed to hit kayla and nothing is done.

    easy child said she'd take Alex last night. He and Darrin are already thick as thieves. And other than pounding on Kayla and ruining her things........he truly is a mega sweetheart. I just wonder if easy child could handle his gfgness and the MRDD issues. I don't think it wise for Nichole to take any of the kids at this point. The only one she could handle is Kayla.......and I think Kayla may be a bit old for Nichole to take on at this point in her life. That would leave me with Kayla and Evan.......and man would I have to work on her not parenting him/treating him like an infant and him being violent ect toward her. I *think* he is young enough to turn that behavior around.

    Oddly I do think the behavior taught to them by their parents in regard to each other can be turned around. During the week they were with us, I simply did not allow it, period. The my house my rules bit. And they did pretty well........unless M started his junk. They flourished under the household routine I established out of many years of habit. (I just do it automatically when kids are around) and they beamed the whole time they were here.

    We're waiting for 2 scenarios : 1. CPS takes the kids or 2. they run back to Mo The latter I doubt as they have no cash........and I doubt either will find/get/look for work.......and biomom is now also broke again so won't be sending them more. Once the kids are out of their custody I look for katie to fall into major victim mode and do whatever it takes to escape and M to vanish as his meal ticket will be gone. Because both of them would be too busy playing victim to actually work the program to get them back............And of course all the blame would lay at my feet because they'd tell everyone all I ever wanted was custody of Kayla and Alex. *sigh*

    I'm just so utterly disappointed in Katie I have no words for it. I hope. I don't think that will ever die. But I just don't believe.:(:(
  14. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    From this description of things it sounds like their trip to OH was more to get away from CPS than anything else. I am NOT sure I would count on CPS in OH to check with MO. I wouldn't even trust Hamilton county CPS to check with Warren county CPS. The calls I made to them when the stepdau of the dealer who lived below us offered to give husband a sexual favor in exchange for a peanut butter sandwich were totally ignored -and the poor kid actually tried to grab his zipper!! They really did NOT care a whit. The women I knew who worked for CPS tended to have that victim posture themselves, so I don't have much faith in them.

    Your description of Evan sure sounds like Katie was abusing something while she was pregnant with him. Fetal alcohol would explain why he was able to learn to count to 3 one day and not learn anything on other days. Given the way the adults behave, I would bet that there is some degree of heroin use, possibly starting as oxycontin use given for migraines at some point. Even sadder, I would not be at all surprised if they had Evan hooked on something. A bit of alcohol in a baby bottle full of something like soda would keep him quiet and easy to handle when they don't want to deal with the gfgness. It could be even worse depending on how much katie wanted to sleep and M didn't want to deal with him.

    Custody SHOULD go to anyone other than katie and M. Period. They simply don't want to parent and still see the kids as their meal tickets. Do what you can to get your studying done, because I doubt that they will make it in the Dayton shelter very long before they lose custody. It could be as little as a few days, depending on what drugs Katie gets her hands on. Heck, M might be drugging her so that she won't object if he abuses Kayla or the boys.
  15. Jena

    Jena New Member

    I just wanted to jump in i ususally dont' come to this part of the board to say i'm so very sorry this is still going on. I remember you posting about it when i was here last time before my easy child broke and i was gone for matter of mos.

    my heart really goes out to you on this, bigtime. it's alot and you are just being so amazing about all of it.

    just sending you a (((Hug)))