things are looking suspicious again


Active Member
since boyfriend sees ant daily at work and with me talking to danielle to check on Kaleb, I get some info about ant. there is something going on there that my gut tells me is ant doing his old modis operandi again of using women.

he is moving in friday with a gal who is 20. I never met her and still do not know where he lives. he lived for two weeks with another girl who was renting him a room. I know there were problems even though they are not romantically involved. he had been told not to bring women in overnight there. ant met this new girl only two weeks ago. the other day he asked boyfriend to cash a 300.00 check this 20 yr old made out to ant. boyfriend would not cash it so ant got someone else to do that. Why would this young girl give ant that much money?

prior to this, he has had perhaps 15 liasons with women under 20 in the past six months. one's parents sent him a certified letter telling him to not contact their daughter again-it came here. this gal was sort of mentally delayed somehow. I did meet her once. the parents had talked to a cop and they were told to cut him off from their daughter. one of the reasons he was thrown out of the half way house was that he was contacting a mildly mentally ill girl whose parents wanted him to leave her alone. when he was living in his apartment near the halfway house he had two women living there and both were not working, seemed slow or something.

ant told some people he had a terrible Easter, others he told he had a wonderful day with his new girlfriend. her dad is to give her money for a car and she is to drive ant to work and back.

yesterday he called me and reminded me Kaleb will be coming and needing babysat. he was sort of flat, and only said what he had to say. At night danielle called and told me ant told her he is not speaking to me and asked her to call and ask me to go get Kaleb. (????) I told her I am not going to get him and that custody is between her and him but that perhaps since ant is in transition with his housing maybe Kaleb should not come yet. I also know ant has been telling people what an evil person I am (like he used to when he was young and got others to help him this way)

I have been reading more about antisocial personality disorder. ant fits all of this description:

~selfish and unfeeling victimization of other people, and an unstable and antisocial lifestyle~

The twenty traits assessed by the PCL-R score are:

glib and superficial charm
grandiose (exaggeratedly high) estimation of self
need for stimulation
pathological lying
cunning and manipulativeness
lack of remorse or guilt
shallow affect(superficial emotional responsiveness)
callousness and lack of empathy
parasitic lifestyle
poor behavioral controls
sexual promiscuity
early behavior problems
lack of realistic long-term goals
failure to accept responsibility for own actions
many short-term marital relationships (ant had never married but lots of short term women)
juvenile delinquency

I am thinking ant may be moving from Conduct Disorder to Antisocial Personality Disorder. His dad is diagnosis schizophrenic, passive aggressive and clinically depressed. so many diagnosis overlap it is hard to say. I just feel that something bad may be unfolding...again. this time ant will be on his own without me for support.


Worlds Best Nana
Oh Janet! I'm sorry Ant seems to be reverting to his old ways. It seems like living a clean, straight life is either too much work or too boring for him. At least he is still working...

Stay strong and vent to us when you need to. We're here for you, and we understand how hard it is to watch them self destruct. Kudos to you for keeping the focus on you and your life. Ant is an adult. He has been given the tools and taught the lessons he needs, he is just choosing not to use them. *SIGH*


Hound dog

Nana's are Beautiful
I find it simply amazing how these girls have no problem supporting guys who do this. I have a nephew who usually has 2 or 3 girls dangling at once who will give him money and pay his way. They even pay his child support for the 3 kids he's had with 3 other girls.

It makes me sad that Ant is spiraling again. I swear it's worse when they're adults cuz you know there isn't anything you can do about it.

Sending many gentle ((((hugs)))), and know that Ant is in my prayers.


New Member
He definatley has gone back to his old ways, hasn't he?? I feel so bad because I know he was doing so well. I just can't understand for the life of me how someone would want to go back to that way of living, when he had a taste of what normal life was for what seemed like such a long stretch of time. I think ant's relapse has fazed me so much because it makes me realize how I cannot let my guard down with my difficult child just because he's been doing so well for the last 6 months. There are days when I think, he has 6 months of normal living behind him, how could he ever go back to the life he was living a year ago? Then I think of ant :frown:

From what you describe of his actions lately, you definaltey have reason to feel something really negative is going to happen soon. I'm glad you are already preparing yourself to step back and let the consequences come as they may.

I can't imagine why these girls are giving him money?? He must be convincing them of something. Maybe he makes them promises of what he can give them in the future, if they could just help him out now. If the girls he seems to go after are usually mentally challenged, then it's probably not hard for him to convince them of anything. He's going after this type of relationship for a reason. Maybe they make him feel superior. That is a lot of girls he has been with and all under the age of 20. He really seems to be looking for trouble in all the right places!!

What really shocks me is how he sees you. The person who has done more for him then anyone in his life!! That really makes me angry.

I hope and pray that ant finds a way to get back to where he was just a short time ago before something major happens.

I'm glad you sound like you are holding up pretty well through all of this and that you aren't questioning anything you have done. These are all ant's choices now and he will have to take total responsibility for all of them.


New Member
Janet, Much of what you posted fits my difficult child also. I don't know about the diagnosis. Mine definately showed signs of autism spectrum from a very early age. But the symptoms also overlapped with Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD), ODD, ADHD, BiPolar (BP) etc. it was baffeling to the psychiatrist and he threw all kinds of medications at difficult child trying to find the best ones for him. I have come to accept that I may never have a difinative diagnosis on my son. I think all we can do for them is help when they are receptive to it and if they are helping themselves and detach when they are not. While I do still look for answers and do alot of reading I am no longer consumed with it. I pray for miricles for our kids all the time.

I am so sorry for your disappointment and suffering. I am sorry for the slander your son is spreading about you. I know first hand how hurtful that is and how ou often wonder what people are thinking/saying as a result of difficult child's lies. I tell truths but only when I am confrounted with the lies. Otherwise I remind myself that these are not people I care about anyway.

Sending (((HUGS))) to my friend who has always given me great advice and support. -RM


Well-Known Member
A diagnosis of conduct disorder often leads into a diagnosis of a personality disorder...most often of antisocial. Sad to say you may have hit the nail square on the head and the only person who can do anything about it is Ant. He wont seek help for it because he wont recognize it.


Active Member
I am sort of mentally detached about ant-accepting this may never change, knowing I did all I could stand to do and knew to do.

As for the slander, it is hard to be hated when you have not been mean or hateful to a person. Then again, I tried to help my ex, his mother and ant all to no avail. for my ex mother in law I had to stop talking to her or seeing her two yrs before I even divorced. this was after 30 yrs of trying to help her. she was too hateful, lying, hurtful. she had the same psychiatrist as her son (my ex) and same diagnosis. for my ex, I tried harder as I wanted to stay married. it took 32 yrs for me to finally accept that this was not going to change. in fact, my ex's then psychiatrist told me that it would only get worse. it took two priests and a lay woman at a catholic retreat to make me let him go six yrs ago.

with ant I let go much sooner. I am sure he will pop in and out of my life, I just wish he would not lie about me, and would not victimize young women. as a mother, knowing this, I want to step in and rescue them. I can't. they wouldnt listen to me anyway. danielle didnt when I told her about him 4 yrs ago. the two girls who met him on the internet that I did get to talk to...still chose to stay with him til he ended it himself once he was done with them. one 17 yr old stayed with him a few months ago even after she knew he had given her a curable STD he got from another girl while she was dating him as well. they all simply went and got antibiotics and went on. it is sick.

my own mother believes him. I wish him well and hope he continues to work. I want him to live. I just dont want to be a part of his lifestyle.



(the future) MRS. GERE

Yes, this is certainly his pattern. What a shame. Sure makes me want to hogtie him so he can get a vasectomy :blush: before you have a whole football team of mini-ants in this world. It's so unfortunate that there are so many women who will accommodate his unhealthy behavior. It's the old "I'll rescue/change him" mentality so many of us were cursed with in our youth :hammer: .

I'm sorry, Janet.



Well-Known Member
BUT - he held it together for a long time, Janet. He is capable. It is probably just harder to maintain that good lifestyle. Perhaps he does not want it that good.


Well-Known Member
Janet, I so feel for you. You have gone above and beyond to get help for ant. Hopefully, one day, our sons will understand that all we did, we did out of love. I will not go and see mine in jail. I try not to think about what could have been, what I could have done, because its really just a mute point is what it is...he is what he is...I hate to write off his future at 19, but unless he does an awful lot of changing, he will spend his life in and out of jails and rehabs. It is so heartbreaking to watch...


Active Member
wendy, ant did not really hold it together much.
I am sure he drank all while living with me. he simply did not do it in front of me. he also had all those women while living with me. he has a myspace spot and he was addicted to harvesting women there.

My other son and I were not here on weekends and he had the place to himself from friday to sunday. when Kaleb was here, he would try to put him to bed at 730pm so he could leave and I would be here for Kaleb. many times he was out all night or came in while I slept. boyfriend would tell me ant smelled of booze in the morning for work.

he doesnt drug. that is the only thing I think he has not done. he also is now able to work daily. he makes good money and likes that. he is apparently a functional alcoholic at this point.


Well-Known Member
Sending hugs. DDD

Didn't you have to separate from your Mom a couple of years ago?
I guess, Ant, has taken advantage of that breach. So sad.


Active Member
DDD about the time of my divorce, my mother expressed so much negative energy that I kept my distance and have since then. each time I am in need, she attacks me and does not support me.

she and I talk only about once a week or less. I keep it short. I told her if anyone does not like how I handle ant, they can take him in themselves. my 6 bros and sisters are in agreement with me. my mother just will never understand. she can be very toxic and must be taken in small increments.

a small consolation to me is that she treats my siblings the same as she treats me.


No real answers to life..
<span style='font-family: Comic Sans MS'>Sorry that ant is reverting to his old ways...old habits die hard. Guess on the brighter side he is at least functioning with his drinking and knows enough to show up for work. The anti-social characteristics have a familiar ring with his behaviors. You have made a great effort to get him started back on the path, but he keeps wandering off....don't know what more you could do????

Thinking of you and all the women in his path, the younger ones don't have enough experience to know they are being used....hope they wise up fast....</span>

:nonono: :faint:


New Member
Janet, I'm sorry ant's life seems to be spiraling downward again. It seems to happen to all of our kids...they do better for a while, then whamo! I guess its the cyclical nature of their illnesses.

I know you are a person of faith...keep talking to God...he'll know what to do.


New Member
Hi Janet, I have too as of late think difficult child diagnosis should be anti social, or worse a pahtological liar.

I rember the days when I thought it was so cute and great that he could connect and have a relationship with a girl, then I began to cringe. All his g/f are younger than him, but he was that way with his friends too.

I really cringe when i hear how they should have vasectomies, and not populate the world. I tend to take it personally, even if it is true. The girls we forget are just as guilty these days in wanting to get pregnant for all the wrong reasons.

We have managed to distance ourselves from ourr son more, but when we connect, we listen and become sad.



New Member
I'm so sorry to hear that he's gone back to his old ways altogether. I had hoped he would stop and realize what he was doing to himself and/or you. I'll be praying he wakes up.


Active Member
jen, I would be very happy if ant had a vasectomy like his father did. ant is simply not ever going to be a good fully present father. you are right about the girls as well, both ant and the girls he sees need their heads (and genitals) examined. danielle got pregnant on purpose to try and hold onto ant as they were about to break up.


Active Member
running it by a pro would only be for my own info. ant sees no problem other than he will admit he is an alcoholic and that he has frequent anger/depresssion/anxiety.

ant is not speaking to me. he called today and when I answered the phone he simply asked if boyfriend was here and wanted me to put him on the phone. no other words for me. I am letting boyfriend mentor him and be there for him while I fade out. boyfriend seems to be able to handle him.

ant would not want to live here. after all, I have rules.